Anthony Borbely
Footballguy
The Tigers traded Pudge to the Yankees for Kyle Farnsworth.
That is a terrible trade.
That is a terrible trade.
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Tigers trade Pudge Rodriguez to Yankees (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Anthony Borbely
- Start date
blackjack23
Footballguy
Statorama
Footballguy
Unreal that they couldn't get a level B type pitching prospect from the Marlins for him.
I'm waiting for Boberly's head to explode when it's revealed that Detroit will take on Kei Igawa's contract as part of the deal. <--entertainment purposes only
I'm waiting for Boberly's head to explode when it's revealed that Detroit will take on Kei Igawa's contract as part of the deal. <--entertainment purposes only
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blackjack23
Footballguy
Another complete steal by Cashman 
sell high on Farnsy!
sell high on Farnsy!
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
This is ####### lame.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Kyle will come in handy during bench-clearing brawls.
texasyankee
Footballguy
Is Jerry West the Tigers GM??
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Let's not get too crazy guys...
We're not exactly talking Pudge circa 1999 here...
His BA is solid, but he has zero power (although he is light years better than Molina and Moeller)
Guess he's still a good defensive ctacher (won the GG last year)...
Farnsworth has been solid this season, and since Pudge is a FA after the season, they got something for him
I'm sure if someone was going to give them a prospect, they would have taken it
We're not exactly talking Pudge circa 1999 here...
His BA is solid, but he has zero power (although he is light years better than Molina and Moeller)
Guess he's still a good defensive ctacher (won the GG last year)...
Farnsworth has been solid this season, and since Pudge is a FA after the season, they got something for him
I'm sure if someone was going to give them a prospect, they would have taken it
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
Oldie but goodie:
Yankees Ensure 2003 Pennant By Signing Every Player In Baseball
February 5, 2003 | Issue 39•04
NEW YORK—With a week to go before pitchers and catchers report for spring training, the New York Yankees shored up their pitching, hitting, and defense Monday by signing every player in professional baseball.
Enlarge Image Yankees
Some of the New York Yankees' newest additions are introduced to the press.
"We'd like to welcome the entire roster of Major League Baseball into the Yankees family," said team owner George Steinbrenner, watching as the franchise's 928 newest additions held up their pinstripes at a Yankee Stadium press conference. "With these acquisitions, we are in position to finally nab that elusive 27th World Series title."
Sports reporters were not surprised by the move.
"This is not entirely unexpected," New York Times baseball writer Murray Chass said. "When the Yankees followed up their signing of Japanese slugger Hideki 'Godzilla' Matsui by annexing Cuba for use as a Triple-A farm club, it was clear that Steinbrenner was willing to do whatever it takes to win."
By noon, Yankees GM Brian Cashman had signed the entire National League and most of the American League to multi-year contracts. Some 10 hours later, the final opposing player, Texas Rangers shortstop Alex Rodriguez, had been acquired by the Yankees, who bought out the remainder of his $252 million contract for $300 million.
"It's an honor to be part of this team," said catcher Benito Santiago, picked up from the San Francisco Giants as insurance in case catchers Jorge Posada, Ivan Rodriguez, and Mike Piazza all go down with injuries. "It's a surprise, certainly, but I'd be crazy to turn down the opportunity to play on what is, by default, the greatest team in baseball."
Yankees manager Joe Torre, whose pitching rotation, prior to the mass signing, lacked a clear seventh ace, now has the luxury of starting each of his hurlers twice a season.
"As they say, you can never have enough pitching in this league," Torre said. "Especially come playoff time. Now, if we make it to the World Series, we'll be able to start Pedro Martinez in Game 1 and still have him fresh and ready to go for a Game 287, should it be necessary."
With so many egos to juggle and so many personnel decisions to make, Torre said his job will actually be harder this season, the lack of opposing players notwithstanding.
"Hey, I don't care who you've got on your team; winning in this league is tough—Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, and Randy Johnson or no Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, and Randy Johnson," Torre said. "And it's even tougher in New York. This is a baseball town, and some of these fans think the Yankees are the only team in baseball. Now that we truly are, the pressure to win will be that much greater."
The mass signing, extravagant even by Yankees standards, caused the Bronx Bombers' payroll to skyrocket from a former league high of $149 million to $5.6 billion. Cashman noted that much of that figure is tied up in bonuses to be paid out to pitcher Tom Glavine, who at 37 will almost certainly not play out the entirety of his 15-year contract.
Baseball commissioner Bud Selig approved the signing, noting that the other 29 major-league teams received ample financial compensation.
"I see no reason why a small-market team like the Twins or Expos can't continue to remain competitive, just because it lacks players," Selig said. "The league was due for contraction, anyway."
Yankees Ensure 2003 Pennant By Signing Every Player In Baseball
February 5, 2003 | Issue 39•04
NEW YORK—With a week to go before pitchers and catchers report for spring training, the New York Yankees shored up their pitching, hitting, and defense Monday by signing every player in professional baseball.
Enlarge Image Yankees
Some of the New York Yankees' newest additions are introduced to the press.
"We'd like to welcome the entire roster of Major League Baseball into the Yankees family," said team owner George Steinbrenner, watching as the franchise's 928 newest additions held up their pinstripes at a Yankee Stadium press conference. "With these acquisitions, we are in position to finally nab that elusive 27th World Series title."
Sports reporters were not surprised by the move.
"This is not entirely unexpected," New York Times baseball writer Murray Chass said. "When the Yankees followed up their signing of Japanese slugger Hideki 'Godzilla' Matsui by annexing Cuba for use as a Triple-A farm club, it was clear that Steinbrenner was willing to do whatever it takes to win."
By noon, Yankees GM Brian Cashman had signed the entire National League and most of the American League to multi-year contracts. Some 10 hours later, the final opposing player, Texas Rangers shortstop Alex Rodriguez, had been acquired by the Yankees, who bought out the remainder of his $252 million contract for $300 million.
"It's an honor to be part of this team," said catcher Benito Santiago, picked up from the San Francisco Giants as insurance in case catchers Jorge Posada, Ivan Rodriguez, and Mike Piazza all go down with injuries. "It's a surprise, certainly, but I'd be crazy to turn down the opportunity to play on what is, by default, the greatest team in baseball."
Yankees manager Joe Torre, whose pitching rotation, prior to the mass signing, lacked a clear seventh ace, now has the luxury of starting each of his hurlers twice a season.
"As they say, you can never have enough pitching in this league," Torre said. "Especially come playoff time. Now, if we make it to the World Series, we'll be able to start Pedro Martinez in Game 1 and still have him fresh and ready to go for a Game 287, should it be necessary."
With so many egos to juggle and so many personnel decisions to make, Torre said his job will actually be harder this season, the lack of opposing players notwithstanding.
"Hey, I don't care who you've got on your team; winning in this league is tough—Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, and Randy Johnson or no Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, and Randy Johnson," Torre said. "And it's even tougher in New York. This is a baseball town, and some of these fans think the Yankees are the only team in baseball. Now that we truly are, the pressure to win will be that much greater."
The mass signing, extravagant even by Yankees standards, caused the Bronx Bombers' payroll to skyrocket from a former league high of $149 million to $5.6 billion. Cashman noted that much of that figure is tied up in bonuses to be paid out to pitcher Tom Glavine, who at 37 will almost certainly not play out the entirety of his 15-year contract.
Baseball commissioner Bud Selig approved the signing, noting that the other 29 major-league teams received ample financial compensation.
"I see no reason why a small-market team like the Twins or Expos can't continue to remain competitive, just because it lacks players," Selig said. "The league was due for contraction, anyway."
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
Agreed. Pudge is hardly an offensive monster anymore. Doesn't hit for power or walk much. They don't lose much making Inge the full-time catcher.Farnsworth isn't too exciting, but the Tigers need all the bullpen help they can get.I'd have liked to see them get more, but the move makes sense.Tremendous Upside said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
It's a salary dump, it helps the Tigers biggest weakness which is the bullpen, and I don't think they lose anything going from IRod to Inge. Last year Pudge became like the 3rd player in baseball history with 500 ABs and less than 10 base on balls. It's not an awful trade, it's not a good trade for the Tigers either. Pudge also waived his no trade clause and was said to be a bit of a problem lately due to Inge playing about half the time. I wish Pudge well, but I'm not sure I'll miss him.Tremendous Upside said:
RenegadeGM
Footballguy
Inge OPS .758
Pudge OPS .756
- There's not much of a difference in the catchers offensively, although Pudge probably gets the edge defensively.
- Pudge was leaving at the end of the year and had been a problem in the locker room lately. Word is, not many teammates will be sad to see him go.
- Leyland was tired of seeing his relievers come in and simply not throw strikes. I'm not sure if Farnsworth will close or not (Rodney will still probably get the opportunity to take that job), but he gives them a fallback option. Zumaya simply can't be trusted in that role right now, and Rodney is already showing he may not be able to be trusted either.
- Inge is being looked at for the full time job next year, so the Tigers will get to see if he can handle going back to being a regular catcher getting 4-5 starts a week. If he handles the role well, there's no need to sign a catcher in the offseason. There's nobody else in the organization ready so look for them to make a small trade for another catcher, perhaps Toronto's Gregg Zaun.
- With Farnsworth, the Tigers now clearly have the edge over most teams should they get in a bench clearing brawl
They do play Johnny Gomes and the Rays soon, so you never know.
Pudge OPS .756
- There's not much of a difference in the catchers offensively, although Pudge probably gets the edge defensively.
- Pudge was leaving at the end of the year and had been a problem in the locker room lately. Word is, not many teammates will be sad to see him go.
- Leyland was tired of seeing his relievers come in and simply not throw strikes. I'm not sure if Farnsworth will close or not (Rodney will still probably get the opportunity to take that job), but he gives them a fallback option. Zumaya simply can't be trusted in that role right now, and Rodney is already showing he may not be able to be trusted either.
- Inge is being looked at for the full time job next year, so the Tigers will get to see if he can handle going back to being a regular catcher getting 4-5 starts a week. If he handles the role well, there's no need to sign a catcher in the offseason. There's nobody else in the organization ready so look for them to make a small trade for another catcher, perhaps Toronto's Gregg Zaun.
- With Farnsworth, the Tigers now clearly have the edge over most teams should they get in a bench clearing brawl
They do play Johnny Gomes and the Rays soon, so you never know.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Olney said Pudge had become a "clubhouse issue" in Detroit. This has always been the problem with Pudge and he was pouting because he wasn't playing everyday. Funny thing is in a platoon Pudge played well, when he played every day he looked washed up. 
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
That would probably be a major league record.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
i don't think it's a bad trade at all. inge is certainly as good as a washed up pudge. if farnsworth keeps pitching well, this trade will be a steal for the tigers.
pudge won't help them make a playoff run. a good bullpen could.
pudge won't help them make a playoff run. a good bullpen could.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
What? You could cut both of Pudge's arms off and he would still be a better option than what the Yanks have. Plus, when he walks....won't the Yanks get a supplemental pick for him?
whoknew
Footballguy
Maybe. They have to offer him arbitration and he'd have to turn that down.
igbomb
Footballguy
Pudge is nothing more than a name at this point. They lose nothing by getting rid of him, except for his contract and his whining. And prior to getting every other day off, he wasn't even doing as well as he is now.
So all of the Tigers fans whining about this one need to calm down. We don't need two guys to do the job of one.
Not that Farnsworth is a prize.
So all of the Tigers fans whining about this one need to calm down. We don't need two guys to do the job of one.
Not that Farnsworth is a prize.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
The CERA for Inge is 5.32 and with Pudge it is 4.22!
Big difference folks
Big difference folks
blackjack23
Footballguy
I thought he was saying Pudge wont make the Tigers make a playoff run.
MrPhoenix
Ron Paul Soldier
Crawford and Upton have to get on base first.
Vladislav Tretiak
Footballguy
I respect your opinion but gold gloves don't always go to the best defensive player. Kind of a joke actually (see Jeter winning one. EVER!)Tremendous Upside said:
Al Czervik
Not wearing pants
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I'm enjoying seeing Cashman work this year.
igbomb
Footballguy
I don't understand this reasoning. Pudge was a platoon player whose numbers were no better than his counterpart. And I think that last night demonstrated that they need bullpen help. And while Farnsworth is no guarantee, we're grasping at straws here.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
True, and that's why I parenthesized it and qualified it with "guess"I don't watch nearly enough Tigers baseball to know how much, if at all, his defensive ability has regressed...
So while it is certainly often a "popularity" contest, in the absence of other evidence, the fact that he did win one as recently as last year at least gives me some hope that he is still a plus defensive catcher
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Those who have actually watched Pudge recently know this was no "steal".
blackjack23
Footballguy
3rd highest OPS in the AL for catchers
MAC_32
Footballguy
Pudge's offense = Inge's offenseWe now have ZERO depth at C in the event that something were to happen to IngePudge's defense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Inge's defenseFarnsworth is no better than just about anyone currently in our pen, the Yanks sold high after he had a hot month plus, good for themWe got fleeced.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Im glad they got anything for that overrated "HOF" player. A bag of balls would be good enough for me, we got someone who can pitch in relief, I'll take it
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I guess thats why he was being platooned with another right handed hitter.blackjack23 said:3rd highest OPS in the AL for catchersLeroy Hoard said:
whoknew
Footballguy
Good stuff from Baseball Prospectus:
Wednesday's big news was a surprising deal in which the Yankees replaced Jorge Posada—who underwent surgery on his shoulder, ending his season—with Ivan Rodriguez, at a cost of Kyle Farnsworth. The price seemed light, given Farnsworth's "disappointment" label and his spot as about the fourth-best reliever in the Yankees' bullpen, and the name value and career accomplishment of the two players is as disparate as you'll find. Certainly, Rodriguez is an upgrade for the Yankees, for whom Jose Molina has been a hole in the lineup.
When you look deeper, though, you can see that this trade isn't quite that special for the Yankees, although the price was right, and it wasn't that bad for the Tigers, who won't miss Rodriguez and were desperately in need of bullpen help. Consider that Rodriguez and Molina are very similar players in type: excellent defensive catchers with little speed, middling power, and a tendency to swing at everything. Molina hasn't hit lefties very well this year, but he has a fair track record of doing so—.268/.311/.405 for his career, and over .300 with good power since 2004. It is a skill he possesses, and in a platoon role, would be acceptable.
Pudge has produced nine runs above replacement this season in 328 PAs, Molina five runs below in 218. Over the last two months, the offensive upgrade for the Yankees won't be worth more than that 14-run gap, and with the defense a wash, this trade is a one-win upgrade, not nearly enough to get excited about. Rodriguez makes the number-eight spot in the lineup a little better, especially against righties, but the idea that adding him is a coup is misguided, largely because he has a reputation and Molina doesn't. The skill sets are similar.
The Yankees didn't really need a guy like Pudge. They needed a left-handed-hitting catcher with some OBP skills. Gregg Zaun, very available, would have been a strong platoon partner for Molina, getting him out of the starting lineup four days a week against the guys he can't hit, and giving the Yankees an OBP boost at the bottom of the order, while sacrificing defense for six innings each night. Now, not only do the Yankees get just that small upgrade at catcher, but they'll be wasting a roster spot on Molina; you don't need a backup catcher who is a writ-small version of your starter, you need a backup catcher who does the things the starter doesn't do. Carrying Molina will be a wasted roster spot for a team whose bench is already pretty sad.
Farnsworth goes from a forgotten man behind Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras, to a critical piece of the Tigers' puzzle. With Todd Jones and Fernando Rodney both imploding, and the ever-present danger that Joel Zumaya will turn up lame, Farnsworth moves into high-leverage innings in Detroit, quite possibly as the closer. He's the biggest winner in this trade: six weeks from hitting the market as a nobody, Farnsworth could turn 20 good innings and 15 saves into another long-term contract in an industry in which no one remembers anything but the last thing you did. He has a chance to shed the labels put on him going back to his time with the Cubs. Even if he doesn't quite cash in the chance, his ability to miss bats will make him a welcome addition in Detroit, and his struggles with the long ball could be masked by a home park that reduces home runs.
The Tigers replace Rodriguez with Brandon Inge, completing the cycle in which Inge moved from catcher to utility guy to third baseman to utility guy and back to catcher. Inge can throw, he's a good receiver, and he hits and runs well for a catcher. The gap between what he is and what Rodriguez is thought to be is wide; the gap between what the two players are, however, is tiny, and a gamble well worth taking on an upside play for a bullpen leaking oil and dropping parts.
Wednesday's big news was a surprising deal in which the Yankees replaced Jorge Posada—who underwent surgery on his shoulder, ending his season—with Ivan Rodriguez, at a cost of Kyle Farnsworth. The price seemed light, given Farnsworth's "disappointment" label and his spot as about the fourth-best reliever in the Yankees' bullpen, and the name value and career accomplishment of the two players is as disparate as you'll find. Certainly, Rodriguez is an upgrade for the Yankees, for whom Jose Molina has been a hole in the lineup.
When you look deeper, though, you can see that this trade isn't quite that special for the Yankees, although the price was right, and it wasn't that bad for the Tigers, who won't miss Rodriguez and were desperately in need of bullpen help. Consider that Rodriguez and Molina are very similar players in type: excellent defensive catchers with little speed, middling power, and a tendency to swing at everything. Molina hasn't hit lefties very well this year, but he has a fair track record of doing so—.268/.311/.405 for his career, and over .300 with good power since 2004. It is a skill he possesses, and in a platoon role, would be acceptable.
Pudge has produced nine runs above replacement this season in 328 PAs, Molina five runs below in 218. Over the last two months, the offensive upgrade for the Yankees won't be worth more than that 14-run gap, and with the defense a wash, this trade is a one-win upgrade, not nearly enough to get excited about. Rodriguez makes the number-eight spot in the lineup a little better, especially against righties, but the idea that adding him is a coup is misguided, largely because he has a reputation and Molina doesn't. The skill sets are similar.
The Yankees didn't really need a guy like Pudge. They needed a left-handed-hitting catcher with some OBP skills. Gregg Zaun, very available, would have been a strong platoon partner for Molina, getting him out of the starting lineup four days a week against the guys he can't hit, and giving the Yankees an OBP boost at the bottom of the order, while sacrificing defense for six innings each night. Now, not only do the Yankees get just that small upgrade at catcher, but they'll be wasting a roster spot on Molina; you don't need a backup catcher who is a writ-small version of your starter, you need a backup catcher who does the things the starter doesn't do. Carrying Molina will be a wasted roster spot for a team whose bench is already pretty sad.
Farnsworth goes from a forgotten man behind Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras, to a critical piece of the Tigers' puzzle. With Todd Jones and Fernando Rodney both imploding, and the ever-present danger that Joel Zumaya will turn up lame, Farnsworth moves into high-leverage innings in Detroit, quite possibly as the closer. He's the biggest winner in this trade: six weeks from hitting the market as a nobody, Farnsworth could turn 20 good innings and 15 saves into another long-term contract in an industry in which no one remembers anything but the last thing you did. He has a chance to shed the labels put on him going back to his time with the Cubs. Even if he doesn't quite cash in the chance, his ability to miss bats will make him a welcome addition in Detroit, and his struggles with the long ball could be masked by a home park that reduces home runs.
The Tigers replace Rodriguez with Brandon Inge, completing the cycle in which Inge moved from catcher to utility guy to third baseman to utility guy and back to catcher. Inge can throw, he's a good receiver, and he hits and runs well for a catcher. The gap between what he is and what Rodriguez is thought to be is wide; the gap between what the two players are, however, is tiny, and a gamble well worth taking on an upside play for a bullpen leaking oil and dropping parts.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Legit bullpen help?last 3 years
4.34 era
1.39 WHIP
Declining K/9
Declining K/BB
Increasing HR rate
Increasing OPS against
Increasing BAA
He's another body, nothing more, and we gave up a quality player at a scare position.
MrPhoenix
Ron Paul Soldier
You had me up until here. Inge's production at catcher will be equal or greater to what Ol'-Rod and his EXPIRING CONTRACT would have done, with less salary and less clubhouse whining. Meanwhile, you get a warm body for the bullpen. The overreacting of I-Rod's supposed greatness is almost comical.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I heard that Pudge said it is nice to go to a contender. Yanks are 4 1/2 out, Tigers 51/2 out.
I have no problem with the trade, Pudge was not going to be resigned for the money he wants.
Pudge put a face back on the Tigers and I respect him for that..even though he was chasing $$$
One question though. I thought Farnsworth is also a fA after the season.
Yanks are 4 1/2 out, Tigers 51/2 out.I have no problem with the trade, Pudge was not going to be resigned for the money he wants.
Pudge put a face back on the Tigers and I respect him for that..even though he was chasing $$$
One question though. I thought Farnsworth is also a fA after the season.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Pudge's defense >>>>>> Inge's, it's not even close.EDIT: this doesn't even take into account the trickle down effect, Inge was our late inning defensive replacement - no one in the current lineup sports a glove close to as good as his. That and Inge can't catch everyday, his days off will be covered by minor league talent. Can't wait!
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MAC_32
Footballguy
He is.
SofaKings
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Because I'm not a blind homer that trys to spin every move my favorite team's make as "the right move?" I've been on board with most things the front office have done in rebuilding this franchise from the ruins of 03, but there have been several very questionable moves in my eyes since the end of last season. This just adds to the list. I just hope Inge doesn't get hurt, you all defending this trade will be begging for Pudge back if that were to happen.Why do you even post in this thread Debbie Downer?at "quality player".
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Jurgens for Renteria was the only big blunder IMO.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Sometimes fans get a little too attatched to players. I guess I'd feel the same way as Mac 32 if my man Fernando would have got sent away. 
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I really like baseball prospectus, but this article is from someone who swung and missed BAD.There is so much wrong with what is written that I don't have the time to cover it all, but I will say that it is clear that this writer does not understand that catchers hit poorly because of the beating they take daily. he also is not taking into account the value of calling a good game or slowing a running attack. Molina does that as well as anyone in the league. However, if he starts to catch every day that ONE talent he has will diminish because your arm is not as fresh etc...Watch if Inge plays every day how is offense will suffer by the end of the year. Look at the ONE run differential for CERA between Pudge and Inge...If IRod is 3rd in OPS for catchers and is still a solid defender, that would make him a top 5 catcher without question...Inge is not that. if Pudge can give the Yanks an OPS of .750 and play decent defense it is a HUGE upgrade over Moeller and is still an upgrade over Molina who is an awful hitter but will stay in better and more effective shape playing 1/3 of the games. The only part that I agree about in the article is his point about Farnsworth
