Chunky Soup
Footballguy
SEA run defense isn't so bad at home. Who's sitting this guy given that, and last week's poor performance?
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Tim Hightower week 11 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Chunky Soup
- Start date
tombonneau
Footballguy
I was a bit surprised about all the Hightower love. The Cards hardly run the ball, and prior to being named starter I'm pretty sure Edge had a better YPC. To me, I thought the other week after he was named the starter, the coaching staff almost seemed to diverge from their pass-pass-pass offense to give Hightower plenty of carries and show everyone they made the right call.
Now that that is out of the way, it's back to pass-pass-pass.
Now that that is out of the way, it's back to pass-pass-pass.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
He had a bad performance against SF but the Cards were playing from behind and in a tight game. Does anyone expect the Seahawks to jump out to a quick lead, even at home?
I see a lot of garbage time yards for TH that weren't there against the 9ers. The good news is he is used in the passing game too. He had 6 catches last week....
I see a lot of garbage time yards for TH that weren't there against the 9ers. The good news is he is used in the passing game too. He had 6 catches last week....
I don't follow this line of thinking. Who expected the Niners to go up quick against the Cards at AZ? Also, why exactly does AZ being behind justify the horrible YPC against a defense that clearly was expecting the Cards to pass?
MCguidance
Footballguy
I am actually trying to trade for him (no trade deadline). I think he is still pretty valuable, but has come down to earth in terms of value. I don't know if I would start him above proven quantities, but he is a good play this week.
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
Haven't benched him yet, but I'm on the fence between him and Slaton to pair with Flash Johnson this week. Yeah, my top 3 starting RB's are rookies.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
When playing from behind teams tend to pass more. And considering they ran the ball only 19 times, 13 to TH (of which 5 were for short yardage of 3 yards or less) his YPC is going to suck. And just look at the games they have played. You can see a significant trend if the Cards are winning by a lot as opposed if they are in a close game or losing. Against the Rams, Bills, Phins, and 49ers (first game against them) they have ran the ball 34, 34, 31, and 39 times, respectively. All games the Cards won by 10 or more and leading most of the gameNow in the close games or games they lost: 49ers (second time), Carolina, Dallas, Jets, and Skins they had 19, 14, 18, 15 and 23 carries, respectively. In games that the Cards win by more than 10 they run a lot and we can expect a lot more out of TH. In close games the Cards running game is not so good. Also keep in mind that the 9ers held the Cards to a 2.8 YPC the first time they faced them this year in week 1. But, despite the running game not doing so well, TH is the goal line back as well and thus has a better than average chance of getting into the EZ even if he doesn't get a ton of yards....
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I drafted TH and took Slaton off the WW week 2 (the bye week before he took over!?!?!) and had an offer on the table for some receiver help for either Slaton or TH. I traded away Slaton. I worry about his size, both height and weight...
Ruffrodys05
IBL Representative
I'm not so worried about either of those factors. Other RB's have flourished in the NFL with those question marks...ie: Westbrook
cubbie5150
Footballguy
I started THT week 10 (& week 9 to cover Gore's BYE) & put Lynch on the bench (Marshawn hadn't looked very good lately, plus they were @ NEP). This week, I'm gonna go back to Lynch since he is @ home on MNF vs. Clev. Totally a matchup play for me. I'll be watching w/ interest to see how THT performs @ Sea.... I didn't really buy into the hype of THT after the StL game, but still, he's worthy of a spot start, and he's nice to have for depth. I'm hoping the Bills offense turns it around so I can just safely ride w/ Lynch (since their schedule looks so tasty), but if not, I'll go RBBC w/ Lynch & THT the rest of the way.
WiDDoW_MaKeR
Footballguy
Hightower just wasn't used correctly in the game against SF. Not his fault. Not enough carries, no real scoring opportunities.... and only ran the ball in obvious running situations. However, he still pulled out an alright game for me, in my PPR league. With the struggle that they had, I can see their coach going back and trying to balance the offense out a bit more going forward.
CalBear
Footballguy
On first down:Arrington 5.83 ypcJames 3.56 ypcHightower 3.15 ypcSecond down: Arrington 8.75 ypcJames 3.51 ypcHightower 3.17 ypcThird down:Arrington 7.00 ypcJames 3.50 ypcHightower 3.28 ypcObviously they're using Hightower incorrectly--they're handing him the ball.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Arrington is the guy who has a beef, he seems to be learning the pro game and is a more skilled runner than Hightower. Hightower was a 5th rd pick for a reason.
-jb-
Footballguy
yeah, but no dreadlocks.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Arrington has a better YPC than AD, the Vikings should trade Peterson straight up for JJ!!!!!
tombonneau
Footballguy
Nice Straw Man. But forget Arrington; the fact is that thus far in 2008, the stats and my eyeballs tell me that Hightower is nothing special.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
I started bolding all the biased statements, when I realized the whole thing is a load of crap...
renesauz
IBL Representative
Not only did they only seem obvious when running TH, but there were no holes for him when he did get the ball. Terrible scheme, IMO. Obviously, they are capable of better work then that though, so I'd expect a modest rebound for Hightower this week. Something along the lines of 70-80 total yards with a TD.
treat88
Footballguy
Agreed.Another down game and Edge will start getting his share again.Guy just runs like any number of career back-up/FA types that succeed in short bursts but fade quickly because they can't sustain production over time.Situations are different obviously, but TH is in the same class as BJGE and Xavier Omon talent wise.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
For some reason he didn't look so great last week, but I wouldn't close the book on him just yet.
And Seattle's bad.
And Seattle's bad.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Well just say that, but dont post stats that clearly do not paint an accurate picture. Arrington is getting most of his carries on passing downs, and Hightower is getting alot of short yardage carries. Those two factors have more to do with their YPC than their talent.For what its worth, i dont think Hightower is a special talent either, but then again, i dont think Addai, Ryan Grant and other guys considered top 20 dynasty backs are either. An average talent can be productive in a great situation though.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
I agree, but if you bolded all biased statements in every thread, 3/4 of the Shark pool would be bolded.
babydemon90
Footballguy
I thought it looked like the game vs SF wasn't ever really a game to get Hightower in rythmn.. I seem to recall at one point in the 3rd he had 6 carries to Warner's 26 pass attempts. Of course, with the success Warner has had, and the fact Hightower didn't make a lot of noise with his carries, I would not expect that to change against Seattle. I'd almost think he'll have better success playing against the Giants when they WILL need to establish the run or risk Warner getting killed.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Uh, you realize that they used Hightower as the goal line and short yardage back for the first 6 or 7 games right? Might skew his numbers down just a bit....
CalBear
Footballguy
First and 10+:Arrington 6.8James 3.59Hightower 3.25Second and 10+:Arrington 8.75James 4.6Hightower 3.8
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Sample size?The reason I am skeptical of these numbers is that it makes it seem that JJ Arrington is all world and we all know that in fact is not true. Something is amiss with the numbers.
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treat88
Footballguy
I'm not so sure about Arrington.
He's not the second coming or anything, but he ran behind a horrible O-line when he was given regular reps.
I can see shades of Thomas Jones there. He's a talented guy who might just need a new situation. I think he could wind up as a Mewelde Moore type player once he leaves the desert. Good back-up who brings just enough across the board skills to warrant a FF roster spot.
He's not the second coming or anything, but he ran behind a horrible O-line when he was given regular reps.
I can see shades of Thomas Jones there. He's a talented guy who might just need a new situation. I think he could wind up as a Mewelde Moore type player once he leaves the desert. Good back-up who brings just enough across the board skills to warrant a FF roster spot.
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CalBear
Footballguy
Arrington's sample sizes are very small, but the others are significant. James has 70 first-and-10 rushes, Hightower 40. Edge has 37 second-and-10, Hightower 23.It should not be surprising that someone who's averaging 3.1 yards per carry (worse than Arrington's rookie season) is not performing as well as someone who's averaging 3.5 yards per carry. Arrington is averaging 6.4 yards per carry on his meager 13 carries; that's not statistically significant, but it highlights the fact that Hightower has simply not performed very well in this offense, at any down and distance.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
That makes more sense. If Arrington's numbers are removed then we have a guy that is performing worse than a 30+ RB with very little tread left on the tires. In comparing the 3 the numbers don't look right. When comparing the 2, then the numbers look more representative. What I would like to see is THT get more than 20 carries again. He's a bruising back. Maybe he needs to get a lot of carries to tear it up. Unfortunately he has only done that against the Rams. And even in only the 2 games the Rams have won this year they still got run on. I think THT sees 20 carries this week against the Seahawks, but is that going to tell us anything if he does well? It will mean he can feast on really crappy teams but that doesn't say much. Either way I'm starting him this week, but the game next week is the big test. What can he do against the G-Men....
silentmark
Footballguy
Now he will be getting benched, dammit 
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renesauz
IBL Representative
Not so sure. On the few carries where he actually had room to run, he made something happen. More often then not, there was no hole, and no cutback lane. TH was hit at or behind the line on almost every carry.I've always found it odd when an O-line can be dominant in one phase of the game (pass blocking), yet look almost completely inept in another (run-blocking)Now he will be getting benched, dammit
RBM
Footballguy
Same here.Loser
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
As I mentioned in the Arrington thread, I picked up J.J. the other day so I watched this game very closely.J.J. had a better YPC than Tim today, but don't put too much stock into that just yet. Why? Because Hightower was in on most 1st downs, which for most teams is a running down. Arrington, meanwhile, got some GAPING holes to run through because he was in on obvious passing downs, and the Cards crossed up Seattle by running the ball. It was the same situation in which Hightower first showed flashes, backing up Edge. The bottom line is that both of these guys will see their share of work going forward.Not so sure. On the few carries where he actually had room to run, he made something happen. More often then not, there was no hole, and no cutback lane. TH was hit at or behind the line on almost every carry.Now he will be getting benched, dammit
Rodeojones
Footballguy
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
2Rodeojones said:
CaGamblers
Footballguy
F*&^! I benched RGrant for Hightower this week and cost me a win and share of first place
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CrossEyed
Footballguy
Especially not in that offense.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Nonsense. RBs should THRIVE in that offense with all the talent at wide receiver.Remember fat Gary Brown? You could have clocked his 40 time with a calendar, but he ripped off long run after long run because defenses had to pay attention to Haywood Jeffires, Drew Hill, Ernest Givens and Curtis Duncan. This is an ideal situation for a running back. Give the kid some time. A year ago, he was playing for Richmond against the likes of William & Mary and James Madison.He'll be fine.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
He'll be fine on my bench until he shows a little consistency.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Go with God.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Old man Edge still may be the best RB for "that team"..too bad he ran his mouth.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Disagree, GB. Edge looked very, very pedestrian this year.If someone wants to kick Timmy to the curb, I'll pick him up in a heartbeat. Have some patience with the young fella.
renesauz
IBL Representative
You would think, but after watching them closely today...I'm not sure any RB would post good #s there. Seattle isn't known for a stifling run D...but there were no holes for the second straight week EXCEPT on some 3rd and 5+ draw type plays. The O-line is not opening any holes...not even small holes.I like TH, I really do. I think he has the skillset to be successful in the NFL, but I'm not sure it will happen this year the way that line is run-blocking.
