Time Magazine: "Shadow Campaign" Influenced 2020 Election Against Trump (2/9 1:54 PST) (2 Viewers)

[timschochet]

I've also found when people on the internet these days are confronted with uncomfortable truths, their first response is to call the obvious analysis "lazy" as if heaving boulders to find nuance instead of dead worms were at all possible.

For example, I'm in a thread about comedy and political correctness or cancel culture. Comedians swear that this is the case -- that comedy is harder because of the Puritanical strain going around these days about any verboten subject. But hagmania, Bernie Bro extraordinaire calls my analysis -- which is keeping in tune with all these professional comedians -- "lazy," as if I'm supposed to move heaven and earth to find out or divine the reason behind these comedians saying that cancel culture is a problem for comedy. No, rock, that's just lazy. You don't have comedians as diverse as Stanhope to Seinfield to Chappelle talking about it.

It's like the new left got together and decided the fallout from their uncomfortable bedfellows or situations was to be deemed "lazy analysis."

I can’t speak for others but this doesn’t describe me. I’m not uncomfortable with any truths. When I call analysis lazy I mean exactly what I wrote. 

 

[rockaction]

Wait, what? Antifa put out a mission statement?     That is pretty good trick for an organization that doesn't actually exist. 

Natch. I bet if you scratch the surface of an Antifa member he'll give you communist/anarchist goobledy#### as a pre-planned statement.

 

[timschochet]

BLMs mission statement is Marxist. Why is that "lazy"?

It’s lazy to assume that anyone who is sympathetic or marched with BLM is even familiar with that mission statement, much less in support of it. 

 

[rockaction]

I can’t speak for others but this doesn’t describe me. I’m not uncomfortable with any truths. When I call analysis lazy I mean exactly what I wrote. 

Nothing "lazy" about linking two entities acting in concert. Meaning acting at the same time, in the same place, doing the same things. Likely having to converse and coordinate with one another to avoid arrest.

 

[timschochet]

Natch. I bet if you scratch the surface of an Antifa member he'll give you communist/anarchist goobledy#### as a pre-planned statement.

You gotta find one first. 

 

[timschochet]

Nothing "lazy" about linking two entities acting in concert. Meaning acting at the same time, in the same place, doing the same things. Likely having to converse and coordinate with one another to avoid arrest.

Again no evidence whatsoever that they acted in concert. Not even at the same time. There’s very little evidence that Antifa acted at all. There’s very scant evidence of Antifa. 

 

[rockaction]

It’s lazy to assume that anyone who is sympathetic or marched with BLM is even familiar with that mission statement, much less in support of it. 

Really? It's lazy to assume that if one is going to march under a banner of a group, one is not going to look up what they're about? That's lazy all right; lazy on the protestors part. Look, if they want to be part of a protest, by all means be part of one. But you're marching under a rubric whether you know it our not. It's not the author or critic's job to suss out who exactly knows what rubric they're marching under. That would seem to fall on the protestors now, wouldn't it?

 

[SoBeDad]

Trump fanatics I know second hand are saying that Time magazine is respected, so it must be true that the election was stolen. 

I think the title is click bait for these people. And I don't see anything shadowy about Stacey Abrams.  Or Bloomberg who threw away hundreds of millions in Florida. 

 

[rockaction]

Again no evidence whatsoever that they acted in concert. Not even at the same time. There’s very little evidence that Antifa acted at all. There’s very scant evidence of Antifa. 

Bull####. I saw at least ten anti-fascist members replete with pins, dressed exactly as you'd think, at a Touche Amore show I went to in L.A. They're all over the place. Hottest girls at the show with them, though.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Really? It's lazy to assume that if one is going to march under a banner of a group, one is not going to look up what they're about? That's lazy all right; lazy on the protestors part. Look, if they want to be part of a protest, by all means be part of one. But you're marching under a rubric whether you know it our not. It's not the author or critic's job to suss out who exactly knows what rubric they're marching under. That would seem to fall on the protestors now, wouldn't it?

This seems like a stretch.

 

[rockaction]

Wait, I forgot. The official DNC-media complex line is "Antifa is an idea, not a group."

Oh yeah, that then.

 

[rockaction]

This seems like a stretch.

It seems to me the stretch is not knowing the group's banner and edict you're marching under for three or so hours while you're in danger of being detained by police and near-riots are taking place around you.

 

[timschochet]

Really? It's lazy to assume that if one is going to march under a banner of a group, one is not going to look up what they're about? That's lazy all right; lazy on the protestors part. Look, if they want to be part of a protest, by all means be part of one. But you're marching under a rubric whether you know it our not. It's not the author or critic's job to suss out who exactly knows what rubric they're marching under. That would seem to fall on the protestors now, wouldn't it?

No. Most protestors were there to protest the murder of George Floyd. If you want to make further assumptions about them, that’s on you not them. 

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It seems to me the stretch is not knowing the group's banner and edict you're marching under for three or so hours while you're in danger of being detained by police and near-riots are taking place around you.

I'm comfortable saying that all the protesters agreed with the slogan "Black Lives Matter."  That's about as far as I think it's fair to go.  Imputing the mission statement of the organization to every protester seems absurd to me.  

 

[timschochet]

Me: BLM is organizing a peaceful march on Saturday to protest the murder of George Floyd. I think I’m going to take part. 
 

Rockaction: Are you aware that the leadership of BLM is Marxist? 
 

Me: I don’t care. I agree with them on this particular issue. 
 

Rockaction: If you join that protest, I’m going to assume you’re Marxist as well. 
 

Me: I don’t care. 

 

[timschochet]

Me: BLM is organizing a peaceful march on Saturday to protest the murder of George Floyd. I think I’m going to take part. 
 

Rockaction: Are you aware that the leadership of BLM is Marxist? 
 

Me: I don’t care. I agree with them on this particular issue. 
 

Rockaction: If you join that protest, I’m going to assume you’re Marxist as well. 
 

Me: I don’t care. 

Two weeks later: 

Rockaction: Hey that protest you were at turned violent. 
 

Me: No it didn’t. We marched peacefully and went home. The riot broke out later on at night. 
 

Rockaction: It was in the same place. And it was led by Antifa. 
 

Me: I have no idea. I think it was led by young thugs. I doubt they belong to any group. From what I’ve read Antifa is pretty small. 
 

Rockaction: They’re anarchists! And your group was Marxist. There’s a historical link between anarchy and Marxism. This was a BLM/Antifa riot! 
 

Me: Wow. You could be a Trump attorney. 

 

[BladeRunner]

There was no need for a shadow campaign. Trump provided his opponent with plenty of ammo to use, and he got beaten by seven million votes as a direct result of his failures in office.

Except, y'know, Time Magazine proves there was. 

 

[BladeRunner]

I know a lot of people that are ok with this.  It's not a good thing either.  

This is the big brother that Orwell warned us about but it's OK because the left did it, apparently.

 

[Thunderlips]

Meh.

 

[BladeRunner]

The people identified in the Time article are national heroes.

And this is the type of comment that should scare everyone.   If you do what GG says and substitute the names with right-wing people there is ZERO doubt you'd be in an absolute outrage, IMO.

 

[Thunderlips]

I know "shadow campagin" is just another buzz phrase for the Right to parrot....but in the end, there wasn't shadowy arms pulling the lever for the 80M+ Americans who, either really didn't like Trump, was tired of the Republican agenda, really liked Joe Biden or who felt that the government had let them down.

 

[FairWarning]

Trump fanatics I know second hand are saying that Time magazine is respected, so it must be true that the election was stolen. 

I think the title is click bait for these people. And I don't see anything shadowy about Stacey Abrams.  Or Bloomberg who threw away hundreds of millions in Florida. 

I thought it was interesting timing on the release of the story.  One one sure wanted it out there.

 

[FairWarning]

And this is the type of comment that should scare everyone.   If you do what GG says and substitute the names with right-wing people there is ZERO doubt you'd be in an absolute outrage, IMO.

Let’s change a couple more items - how about another country (China?) funneling billions in Bitcoin to get the leader they want.

 

[sho nuff]

Wait, I forgot. The official DNC-media complex line is "Antifa is an idea, not a group."

Oh yeah, that then.

The FBI director hired by Trump is now the DNC-media complex?  https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-race-and-ethnicity-archive-bdd3b6078e9efadcfcd0be4b65f2362e

 

[zoonation]

I've also found when people on the internet these days are confronted with uncomfortable truths, their first response is to call the obvious analysis "lazy" as if heaving boulders to find nuance instead of dead worms were at all possible.

For example, I'm in a thread about comedy and political correctness or cancel culture. Comedians swear that this is the case -- that comedy is harder because of the Puritanical strain going around these days about any verboten subject. But hagmania, Bernie Bro extraordinaire calls my analysis -- which is keeping in tune with all these professional comedians -- "lazy," as if I'm supposed to move heaven and earth to find out or divine the reason behind these comedians saying that cancel culture is a problem for comedy. No, rock, that's just lazy. You don't have comedians as diverse as Stanhope to Seinfield to Chappelle talking about it.

It's like the new left got together and decided the fallout from their uncomfortable bedfellows or situations was to be deemed "lazy analysis."

I don't think that is it at all.  You are making some indicting claims in here based on conjecture and are using hyperbole to make them.  It is not persuasive in the absence of any real evidence.  BLM did not condemn the rioting and that was unfortunate if they want to draw more people to their movement.  But you have still yet to provide any actual evidence that the organization was actively coordinating the riots.  And to paint them as Marxist is just lazy.  I agree with Tim.  

 

[sho nuff]

Let’s change a couple more items - how about another country (China?) funneling billions in Bitcoin to get the leader they want.

The story and effort revolved around making sure the election was protected...that votes were counted...that people were able to vote.

Nowhere did they steer money to get people to vote for someone else.

So my question is...why should anyone be against making sure as many people as possible are allowed to safely vote and have their vote counted?

Why should I be afraid of that?

 

[FairWarning]

They did try to use Covid funding for the elections, asked for 2 billion, got $400 million. It’s from the Time article, a long but interesting read.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/%3famp=true

In March, activists appealed to Congress to steer COVID relief money to election administration. Led by the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, more than 150 organizations signed a letter to every member of Congress seeking $2 billion in election funding. It was somewhat successful: the CARES Act, passed later that month, contained $400 million in grants to state election administrators. But the next tranche of relief funding didn’t add to that number. It wasn’t going to be enough.

Private philanthropy stepped into the breach. An assortment of foundations contributed tens of millions in election-administration funding. The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative chipped in $300 million. “It was a failure at the federal level that 2,500 local election officials were forced to apply for philanthropic grants to fill their needs,” 

 

[supermike80]

I ask for a source because you made a big big claim about the DNC and Government funding those who started fires over the summer...with not a shred of evidence to back it up...and there was zero need for the continued insults over it...

I wonder if there is a tweet about it.  Betcha there is.  Since that is all the evidence you need that should suffice right?

 

[Kal El]

Except, y'know, Time Magazine proves there was. 

Trump practically handed Biden the office with his antics, he lost by twice as many votes as he did to Hillary, and she was about as unlikable.

 

[sho nuff]

They did try to use Covid funding for the elections, asked for 2 billion, got $400 million. It’s from the Time article, a long but interesting read.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/%3famp=true

In March, activists appealed to Congress to steer COVID relief money to election administration. Led by the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, more than 150 organizations signed a letter to every member of Congress seeking $2 billion in election funding. It was somewhat successful: the CARES Act, passed later that month, contained $400 million in grants to state election administrators. But the next tranche of relief funding didn’t add to that number. It wasn’t going to be enough.

Private philanthropy stepped into the breach. An assortment of foundations contributed tens of millions in election-administration funding. The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative chipped in $300 million. “It was a failure at the federal level that 2,500 local election officials were forced to apply for philanthropic grants to fill their needs,” 

As they should have. Going back to early in the primaries it was clear COVId would be an issue for many in regards to in person voting.  Quite a few of us late spring and into the summer talked about that was the time ti ensure people could vote and strengthen mail in/absentee voting.

What about that is a negative?

 

[sho nuff]

I wonder if there is a tweet about it.  Betcha there is.  Since that is all the evidence you need that should suffice right?

You seem yo have issue with tweets and me...so I will politely ask that you stop these attempts at getting some big reaction from me...

 

[supermike80]

You seem yo have issue with tweets and me...so I will politely ask that you stop these attempts at getting some big reaction from me...

I'm just glad we can use twitter to bolster our cases and they are a reputable source.   

 

[sho nuff]

I'm just glad we can use twitter to bolster our cases and they are a reputable source.   

Twitter isn't a source. Its a platform.  Already explained that to you.  The source is the person who posts the tweet.  It is not my fault you are bent out of shape because I linked to a journalist from NBC who tweeted out the actual police reporting that was corroborated elsewhere.  To now bring this up several tomes to try to get a reaction from me has gotten old.

Because nobody has claimed hat you are saying we agree with here.  Again...please stop.

 

[squistion]

Twitter isn't a source. Its a platform.  Already explained that to you.  The source is the person who posts the tweet.  It is not my fault you are bent out of shape because I linked to a journalist from NBC who tweeted out the actual police reporting that was corroborated elsewhere.  To now bring this up several tomes to try to get a reaction from me has gotten old.

Because nobody has claimed hat you are saying we agree with here.  Again...please stop.

I have been saying that for years, but we still keep seeing things like: If there is a tweet about it... that is all the evidence you need...or: So, if it is on Twitter, then it is true, right?

 

[urbanhack]

Wait, I forgot. The official DNC-media complex line is "Antifa is an idea, not a group."

Oh yeah, that then.

Well if you say it's an official group...then we're all set. 

 

[FairWarning]

As they should have. Going back to early in the primaries it was clear COVId would be an issue for many in regards to in person voting.  Quite a few of us late spring and into the summer talked about that was the time ti ensure people could vote and strengthen mail in/absentee voting.

What about that is a negative?

I’m not sure how much of a negative it is, outside of I look at it more as a state level issue.  I think federal elections should be uniform, but am reminded that this is how the states conduct them.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I know "shadow campagin" is just another buzz phrase for the Right to parrot....but in the end, there wasn't shadowy arms pulling the lever for the 80M+ Americans who, either really didn't like Trump, was tired of the Republican agenda, really liked Joe Biden or who felt that the government had let them down.

Sounds an awful lot like what one side accused russia of doing and ignoring that Trump won an election when they spent four years "investigating"

 

[Thunderlips]

Sounds an awful lot like what one side accused russia of doing and ignoring that Trump won an election when they spent four years "investigating"

Sessions and Rosenstein were Trumps guys.  

 

[supermike80]

I have been saying that for years, but we still keep seeing things like: If there is a tweet about it... that is all the evidence you need...or: So, if it is on Twitter, then it is true, right?

EXACTLY!!!   It seem people post tweets as some sort of proof of concept.  Because it is from a "journalist" it's automatically legit.

Twitter is a horrible source for almost everything.  Yet, it still gets links.   Not from me though.  Ever.

 

[sho nuff]

I’m not sure how much of a negative it is, outside of I look at it more as a state level issue.  I think federal elections should be uniform, but am reminded that this is how the states conduct them.  

But the states still did handle it...correct?  With funding help some from the feds some from private.

 

[FairWarning]

But the states still did handle it...correct?  With funding help some from the feds some from private.

So are we going to do this every election if we don't like the potential outcome?  

 

[sho nuff]

So are we going to do this every election if we don't like the potential outcome?  

Do what?

Encourage people to vote and ensure the votes count?  I hope so.

Vlaim it was all rigged and whip people into a frenzy ending in an attempted siege on the Capitol?  Hope nit...part of the point of this impeachment and now trial is to try and make sure a POTUS doesn’t try that again.

 

[FairWarning]

Do what?

Encourage people to vote and ensure the votes count?  I hope so.

Vlaim it was all rigged and whip people into a frenzy ending in an attempted siege on the Capitol?  Hope nit...part of the point of this impeachment and now trial is to try and make sure a POTUS doesn’t try that again.

Have shadow campaigns, fortify our elections, let corporations dictate what is good for us?  Hell we can't even plow the neighbor's driveway without a anti-trump message.  Next time, I would plow that snow into a big pile and leave it at the end of her driveway.

 

[sho nuff]

Have shadow campaigns, fortify our elections, let corporations dictate what is good for us?  Hell we can't even plow the neighbor's driveway without a anti-trump message.  Next time, I would plow that snow into a big pile and leave it at the end of her driveway.

Why is fortifying elections a bad thing?

And doesn’t seem all that shadowy give there is a large story about it and people seems to meet pretty openly about this.

How did they “dictate what was good for us”?

 

[FairWarning]

Why is fortifying elections a bad thing?

And doesn’t seem all that shadowy give there is a large story about it and people seems to meet pretty openly about this.

How did they “dictate what was good for us”?

nm, not going thru it again.   Time to look for some winners.

 

[beef]

Was this article in a real magazine or one of those fake Time covers?  

 

[The Z Machine]

People can act in various ways, contributing to various groups at the same time.  That does not intrinsically mean that r there is a control apparatus between one group and another.

I may volunteer for the Cub Scouts, I may also go to a protest for organized labor.  I may even be a leader in both groups.  That does not mean that organized labor controls the Cub Scouts.

Humans can hold multiple thoughts in their head at the same time without them being linked.  Heck, sometimes these viewpoints are not even logically consistent.  Most of the time, they are not.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I guess that is the only plus out of  COVID as otherwise Trump would have won again.

We’ll never know, but I suspect he would have lost even without the pandemic.

 

[quick-hands]

It’s lazy to assume that anyone who is sympathetic or marched with BLM is even familiar with that mission statement, much less in support of it. 

How lazy is it to compare BLM to Nelson Mandela?   I'd say very.   That is an ORGANIZATION.  Yet you compare them to one of strongest most moral INDIVIDUALS in the history of mankind.  Why not compare them to the ANC?   Slovenly.

You are one reason I dont read Wynand.

 

[jon_mx]

It’s lazy to assume that anyone who is sympathetic or marched with BLM is even familiar with that mission statement, much less in support of it. 

But yet we are told a couple of people shouting and a social media post is conclusive evidence that the people in DC were not protestors but part of a planned well-coordinated insurrection to overthrow our government..  There are two standard in America, one with how you treat those you sympathize politically with and one on how you treat those on the other end of the spectrum.