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Time Out (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
- Start date
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
you play to win the game. they should and will change the rule though.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
How the hell do you change the rule? They are calling timout before the play begins. What if they call a timeout on 4th and goal and a team needs a TD to tie or win and they call a timeout right before the snap and the QB tosses a TD. It's the same thing.
People need to get over it. For the record, I think it absolutely is bush league, but perfectly within the rules and one which cannot be changed.
How do you propose they change it? Make them call it with 5 seconds left on the play clock? Does this mean the offense also can't call a timout with less than 5 seconds left on the play clock? It really makes no sense to change it.
People need to get over it. For the record, I think it absolutely is bush league, but perfectly within the rules and one which cannot be changed.
How do you propose they change it? Make them call it with 5 seconds left on the play clock? Does this mean the offense also can't call a timout with less than 5 seconds left on the play clock? It really makes no sense to change it.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I am fine with it. Since when is icing the kicker a new thing?
Wadsworth
Footballguy
You could go back to only letting players call time outs. Then at least it would be on the field and not away from the action.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
So the bench loses it's right to call a timeout? So then we have the safety man stand by the official and call it. There are plenty of guys smart enough to do the same thing as the coach.Maybe if they do that, they can also have the offensive and defensive captains carry a red flag for challenges?
Wadsworth
Footballguy
I don't see what it has to do with replay challenges. But to the timeouts, yea there are plenty of players smart enough to call a time out. What most people that have a problem with the last minute sideline TO mention is that it seems smarmy, deceptive. If a player calls the TO it's in plain veiw on the field of play and doesn't carry the same shadey impression as a TO coming seemingly out of nowhere after the field goal attempt.So the bench loses it's right to call a timeout? So then we have the safety man stand by the official and call it. There are plenty of guys smart enough to do the same thing as the coach.Maybe if they do that, they can also have the offensive and defensive captains carry a red flag for challenges?
delusional
Footballguy
as a fan of neither team, they have to get rid of that crap
bush league completely
bush league completely
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Exactly, the way it's set up is a terrible rule. It's legal but it's a dumb rule.I think you should be allowed to ice the kicker. I could care less, burn all 3 timeouts but however you want to set it up, the kick should not be made. Get 10 guys/refs to sit in a room and figure out what the best rule would be to make sure that doesn't happen but kicks should not be made or missed and then they don't count.It's like in basketball, if the game is tied and the guy is on the free throw line shooting a free throw........do you think the opposing coach can call a timeout right after he does his free throw routine and is about to shoot the ball?NOOOOOOOOOO, he can't. You know why? Because that would be a dumb rule just like it's a dumb rule to have kickers kicking the ball, games that fans think are won or lossed only to find out seconds later that it really didn't count.Again, ice the kickers all you want, make them stand out there 20 minutes if you can. But once it's time for the kick, let's play the game.Pack43 said:
delusional
Footballguy
watch when this #### rule causes someone to get hurt on a play that "wasnt".
geoff8695
Footballguy
I think the rule change will be something along the lines of timeouts by the defending team on field goal attempts need to be called prior to the offensive team lining up for the snap.As far as the comparison to 4th and goal I would agree with you up until the point where you exceed the kicker's normal 'range'. Folk's longest NFL field goal prior to the game winner was only 47 yards. The difference between a gimme field goal and a 50 yarder would be kind of like the difference between 4th and goal from the 2 or from the 15 yard lines. Apparently length does matter...Also what do you do if the kicker is injured on the first attempt? i.e. muscle pull or (heaven forbid) a defender who knows the first play is a freebie decides to decapitate the place kicker. For that mattter what if the defender(s) decide to 'go after' the holder or the long snapper on the meaningless attempt?
geoff8695
Footballguy
I voted 'could care less' on principle, since I DO care and think the rules should be changed to put a stop to this practice...
Last edited by a moderator:
pizzatyme
Footballguy
There are so many officials on the field it could easily be called by someone not on camera. In every instance, the replay has showed that the coach has made the call in plenty of time. Even when Skeletor started this fiasco, you could plainly see that Lynch was also calling for the TO on the replay.We gain nothing by removing the ability to call timeouts by the sidelines.Teams should just expect it to happen, get set for the FG with plenty of time on the clock and make fake nods that the kicker is ready. Then the team can call the timeout all they want and the other team was never ready to kick it in the first place.Or, as others have said, once it starts to backfire, it will lose some of its novelty.The Challenge piece just just to show that it makes no sense to remove some of the ability of the coaches and not others. A reach, I know, but similar.I don't see what it has to do with replay challenges. But to the timeouts, yea there are plenty of players smart enough to call a time out. What most people that have a problem with the last minute sideline TO mention is that it seems smarmy, deceptive. If a player calls the TO it's in plain veiw on the field of play and doesn't carry the same shadey impression as a TO coming seemingly out of nowhere after the field goal attempt.So the bench loses it's right to call a timeout? So then we have the safety man stand by the official and call it. There are plenty of guys smart enough to do the same thing as the coach.Maybe if they do that, they can also have the offensive and defensive captains carry a red flag for challenges?
I kinda like the idea of the fake nod. Or we could adapt a Skip Bayless suggestion (i knowThere are so many officials on the field it could easily be called by someone not on camera. In every instance, the replay has showed that the coach has made the call in plenty of time. Even when Skeletor started this fiasco, you could plainly see that Lynch was also calling for the TO on the replay.We gain nothing by removing the ability to call timeouts by the sidelines.Teams should just expect it to happen, get set for the FG with plenty of time on the clock and make fake nods that the kicker is ready. Then the team can call the timeout all they want and the other team was never ready to kick it in the first place.Or, as others have said, once it starts to backfire, it will lose some of its novelty.The Challenge piece just just to show that it makes no sense to remove some of the ability of the coaches and not others. A reach, I know, but similar.I don't see what it has to do with replay challenges. But to the timeouts, yea there are plenty of players smart enough to call a time out. What most people that have a problem with the last minute sideline TO mention is that it seems smarmy, deceptive. If a player calls the TO it's in plain veiw on the field of play and doesn't carry the same shadey impression as a TO coming seemingly out of nowhere after the field goal attempt.So the bench loses it's right to call a timeout? So then we have the safety man stand by the official and call it. There are plenty of guys smart enough to do the same thing as the coach.Maybe if they do that, they can also have the offensive and defensive captains carry a red flag for challenges?
) and do away with placekicking altogether.
Max Power
Footballguy
Bingo. its never a good idea to have a situation where half the players think its a full go down while the others dont
KingPrawn
Footballguy
Would we still be having this debate if Folk missed the first kick and got to try again because of the timeout and made the second one? If the kicker is lining up for a chip shot the timeout is a smart move but for a kick 50+ yards where the chances are probably 50-50 he makes it why give him two chances?
Pipes
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
It has gotten to the point where the kicking team expects the TO to come, so they could treat the kick as a practice kick. Important to make it, but just expect this to be the warm up kick.
I haven't seen every close game, so maybe I'm wrong. Any idea what the % is of games where this TO is called, given these circumstances?
I haven't seen every close game, so maybe I'm wrong. Any idea what the % is of games where this TO is called, given these circumstances?
B-Deep
Footballguy
I have said it before, the worst part is that it makes for crappy TV. Seeing a play that never was to end a game over and over again is silly. They will find a way to change this. For all the people who say there is no way, remember that people said the same thing about horse collar tackles.
"What, we are going to ask players to not tackle someone who gets by them for fear of horse collaring?"
yes
This is within the rules, so it is ok, but it won't be within the rules next year, and that will be better for the viewers.
"What, we are going to ask players to not tackle someone who gets by them for fear of horse collaring?"
yes
This is within the rules, so it is ok, but it won't be within the rules next year, and that will be better for the viewers.
SSOG
Moderator
Because if coaches can't call timeout, they'll just challenge the previous play immediately before the ball is snapped. Sure, they'll lose the challenge and lose a TO as a penalty, but isn't that what they were going to do, anyway?I don't see what it has to do with replay challenges.So the bench loses it's right to call a timeout? So then we have the safety man stand by the official and call it. There are plenty of guys smart enough to do the same thing as the coach.Maybe if they do that, they can also have the offensive and defensive captains carry a red flag for challenges?
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
daveandken
Footballguy
No coach challenges within the last 2 minutes anyway.Next.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
As I pointed out in the other thread, if you saw the ESPN replay, Jauron had to call it 3 or 4 times over the course of 3-4 seconds before the ref blew the whistle. Peter King mentioned that in his column this morning as well. So it isn't like he really waited until the last possible second and did it. The ref just took his time listening.
mr. furley
Footballguy
acme
Footballguy
Great job by Folk making both kicks. He 'should' have been closer as TO's 'catch' SHOULD have counted. The ref called it a catch on the field, and then Dallas spiked the ball to stop the clock before anyone signaled for a review. The 'spike play' counts as a play, even if it is just to stop the clock... there should have been no review allowed AFTER the spike (obviously the call was wrong on the field but the BOYS did get the next snap off before the official's challenge.) Turned out OK for Dallas, but there would have been a major backlash if he would have missed that kick short.
Just my 2¢
Just my 2¢
Doug B
Footballguy
Posted this elsewhere, but it fits here as well:
People are calling these "icing" timeouts, and they're not. These TOs are intentional "make 'em kick it twice" timeouts -- and that's where the BS lies.
Place kicks from scrimmage are unique plays in football. On no other play does the action progress from snap to conclusion so quickly. To me, that means that place kicks from scrimmage deserve to be treated differently in the rule book.
The analogy to me is this: say the Colts are driving for the winning TD. Manning drops back, sees Wayne beat a blown coverage, cocks his arm back, and ...
Everything that happened after the whistle is blown dead. Manning's arm went forward, he released the ball, Wayne caught it, and scampered in for 6. But it all comes back because the opponent called a timeout. The play has to be re-run.
Would you then say "Complete that pass twice, Peyton!"? I hope not.
But some will argue "That's a bad analogy -- that's not a pre-snap timeout." Indeed ... but it's still a good analogy. Here's why: the snap-hold-kick event is pretty much instantaneous, taking about as long as a three-step drop. That means an at-the-snap TO interferes with the main event of the play, namely the place kick. On a regular offensive play, the snap is nowhere near as close to the main event (the pass attempt, in this instance). Everyone has time to hold up and not actually go into the execution of the play.
Kicks are special cases and should be treated differently. No timeout should be allowed once the center has his hand on the ball and the line is in formation. The old-fashioned icing time-out can still be made ... you just make sure an on-the-field time out is called while the offense is still scrambling into FG formation.
People are calling these "icing" timeouts, and they're not. These TOs are intentional "make 'em kick it twice" timeouts -- and that's where the BS lies.
Place kicks from scrimmage are unique plays in football. On no other play does the action progress from snap to conclusion so quickly. To me, that means that place kicks from scrimmage deserve to be treated differently in the rule book.
The analogy to me is this: say the Colts are driving for the winning TD. Manning drops back, sees Wayne beat a blown coverage, cocks his arm back, and ...
Everything that happened after the whistle is blown dead. Manning's arm went forward, he released the ball, Wayne caught it, and scampered in for 6. But it all comes back because the opponent called a timeout. The play has to be re-run.
Would you then say "Complete that pass twice, Peyton!"? I hope not.
But some will argue "That's a bad analogy -- that's not a pre-snap timeout." Indeed ... but it's still a good analogy. Here's why: the snap-hold-kick event is pretty much instantaneous, taking about as long as a three-step drop. That means an at-the-snap TO interferes with the main event of the play, namely the place kick. On a regular offensive play, the snap is nowhere near as close to the main event (the pass attempt, in this instance). Everyone has time to hold up and not actually go into the execution of the play.
Kicks are special cases and should be treated differently. No timeout should be allowed once the center has his hand on the ball and the line is in formation. The old-fashioned icing time-out can still be made ... you just make sure an on-the-field time out is called while the offense is still scrambling into FG formation.
suchislife
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
let's just rule out timeouts in situations where it might wind up being unfair to the other team
Perfect Tommy
Footballguy
Teams are doing much more than just icing the kicker. They are stealing the moment! The final culmination of a great game decided by a last second FG is now replaced by this crapola. That was exactly what I was thinking as the game winning kick sailed through the uprights for the second time. Destroying the final moment of a classic game is the absolutely worst thing for the NFL to allow and they should ban it NOW, not wait until the end of the year. And don't tell me it can't be done. All the commissioner has to do is say you can't do THAT. We all know what we are talking about. A simple injunction. And the excitement of the game will be preserved.
Exactly--the rule needs to treat the offense and defense equally. Offenses call time out with 1 (or sometimes 0) seconds left on the play clock all the time.To counter this, offenses should randomize over when they snap the ball, when they have the time to do so. By waiting until the play clock is at :01, they're pretty much asking for this to happen.
