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Titans a lock for playoffs now? (1 Viewer)
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Chunky Soup
Footballguy
Undefeated? they play at CHI, at IND, home v. IND, home v. PIT, home v. GB.
I highly doubt they win each of these games.
I highly doubt they win each of these games.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I don't think it would be unheard of for a team to start 5-0 and miss the playoffs. The AFC is still very tough.
Tennessee has played a very easy schedule. The Bengals and Texans aren't very good, and to date, the Ravens/Jaguars/Vikings have been below average teams with above average reputations. Their passing game is bad and their running game isn't very good if Lendale White keeps averaging 2.6 YPC.
This team seems like a trendy one to like, but I don't see it. Their pass D is really good and their run D is tough, but you need an offense, too. I don't like teams with no passing game, and it's tough to win playoff games in a good conference without one.
Look at the 24 QBs to have won playoff games in the AFC the past five years. Brady (9) and Manning (6) are on the last fifteen times. Roethlisberger is on there four times. The other five QBs include Steve McNair and David Garrard, who had terrific seasons that year, and Jake Plummer, Chad Pennington and Philip Rivers. All of those guys were better QBs in their year than Kerry Collins is now.
I'm very skeptical about how far Tennessee can go with no passing game.
Tennessee has played a very easy schedule. The Bengals and Texans aren't very good, and to date, the Ravens/Jaguars/Vikings have been below average teams with above average reputations. Their passing game is bad and their running game isn't very good if Lendale White keeps averaging 2.6 YPC.
This team seems like a trendy one to like, but I don't see it. Their pass D is really good and their run D is tough, but you need an offense, too. I don't like teams with no passing game, and it's tough to win playoff games in a good conference without one.
Look at the 24 QBs to have won playoff games in the AFC the past five years. Brady (9) and Manning (6) are on the last fifteen times. Roethlisberger is on there four times. The other five QBs include Steve McNair and David Garrard, who had terrific seasons that year, and Jake Plummer, Chad Pennington and Philip Rivers. All of those guys were better QBs in their year than Kerry Collins is now.
I'm very skeptical about how far Tennessee can go with no passing game.
3C's
Footballguy
I don't believe he's saying they'll go undefeated but that they're currently undefeated. This is a team not unlike the Ravens when they won the SB, except maybe Collins turns the ball over too much.
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
I think they are as much a lock as anyone right now. Easy schedule or not - their defense is nasty. And with LenDale and Chris Johnson they honestly don't even need a passing game to win most games 16-10. Now when they GET to the playoffs, I think they'll exit fairly quickly without a passing game but missing the playoffs? No chance.
KC, Indy twice, GB, Chicago, J-Ville, Jets, Cleveland, Detroit, Houston and Pitt left. You can MAYBE argue there's six losses there if Indy grows a defense (or an offense) at some point this year and the Jets pull off the major upset on the road and that would STILL put them at 10-6.
KC, Indy twice, GB, Chicago, J-Ville, Jets, Cleveland, Detroit, Houston and Pitt left. You can MAYBE argue there's six losses there if Indy grows a defense (or an offense) at some point this year and the Jets pull off the major upset on the road and that would STILL put them at 10-6.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
When Justin Gage is healthy their passing game is much improved. Still not an elite unit by any means but adequate at least.
twistd
Footballguy
Baltimore has done it in the past. It can be done. The division is weaker than last year. All three other teams in the division don't seem as good as they were last year. So their division schedule is not all that tough. The conference itself is weaker. I would argue that it isn't that good of a conference any more. With New England, Indy, and San Diego all falling back to the pack this conference is considerably weaker. I think the Titans are in a good position to not only make the playoffs, but go a long ways in the playoffs.
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Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Didn't the Jets start 8-0 one year and didn't make the playoffs? Maybe it wasn't the Jets, but I believe it was. The Titans are a team that doesn't give you that warm and fuzzy feeling. Frankly, I'm baffled they are 5-0.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure no team has ever done more than 6-0 and failed to make the playoffs. Certainly no team has gone 8-0 and missed the playoffs.The best I remember the Jets being is 6-1 and missing the playoffs.
I think you misunderstood me. They're undefeated now that was all. I went on to mention they probably only have to go 5-6 to make the playoffs
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Perhaps you are thinking of the year they started 10-0 and lost their last 6. they did still make the playoffs but benched Ken O'Brien for Pat Ryan for the playoff game. I believe they won that game against the Chiefs.
Kerry has taken teams deep into the playoffs when I didn't think he would previously-Panthers, Giants. Is it wrong to not support him yet again? It almost feels wrong to doubt him but what's he done other than that? He's an odd one to figure out. Lendale's 2.6 for when he gets the ball, isn't that bad. He gets all the garbage, Chris gets the good opportunities.I disagree on the easy schedule. I think as the season wears on some of those teams will be thought of as real solid/tough opponents.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
How did Detroit start last season? I believe they were a lock at like 5-2?
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
There's a huge difference bet/ being 5-0 and 5-2. I don't think anyone in their right mind thought the Lions were a lock to make the playoffs (especially after at least one embarrassing loss to the Eagles). Also, the Lions did not look as impressive as the Titans do this year. The Titans are a legitimate team with a very strong defense and running game. Given the fact that the AFC (and especially the AFC south) is having a down year, not sure how you can compare the 2 situations.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yup they did.Though, that Lions team and this Titans team are nowhere near similar.Barring any major injury there is no reason this team should miss the playoffs.The defense and Oline are very very good and they are one of the best coached (if not the best) teams in the NFL.And while they don't win big alot, they play perfect Fisher ball, keep it close, play good defense, don't make bad mistakes, control the clock, dominate the LOS.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think you're seeing things through unbelievably rose colored glasses. 2.6 is awful; I'm sure it will go up, but my point is the running game isn't even that impressive right now. Collins' accomplishments happened a loooooong time ago. He is not nearly as good as he was in '00, and his weapons are quite a bit worse.
sho nuff
Footballguy
546 combined yards between White and Johnson.Against 2 poor defense and 3 that are pretty good against the run in Jax, Balt, and Minny.
Id say the running game has looked pretty good...and has some cake defenses coming (Detroit, GB, Indy twice, Cleveland, Houston again, Chiefs...and Jets, while not giving up a ton of yards have given up 6 TDs)
Maybe/Probably as far as the 2.6 but, I kinda feel bad for the guy. If they have a good opportunity, he's taken out of the game. 1100 last year, now he's a grunt.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
The Titans rank 26th in YPC. They're second in touchdowns and they're second in carries, but this is hardly a great running game. There are 10-20 teams with better rushing attacks.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I don't think so.Stats are facts and I hear ya, it's just watching them line up and run over and over against a D expecting the run is rather impressive. Against that great Minny DL, they probably had what 70-80 yards? but they did get 2 TDs and win the game by the OL making holes against those great DL. Something's skewed there because 26 is very unimpressive but watching is completely different.
sho nuff
Footballguy
YPC means little at this point.They are moving the chains and effective in the redzone.Do you think Jeff Fisher cares about yards per carry?The Raiders, Seahawks, Vikings, and Chiefs are all in the top 10 in yards per carry right now...Lions and Texans also in the top half of the league.What has that gotten them?What 10-20 teams out there do you really think have better rushing attacks?
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Tau837
Footballguy
It is still possible that Indy will win the division, especially since they still play the Titans twice. If the Titans don't win the division, it is no given they will get one of the two wild cards. They are obviously the frontrunner right now, but there's a long way to go.
If Chris Johnson were to get injured, they would be in big trouble on offense. Lendale White is really bad. Check out his ypc on the season: 2.7, 3.3, 3.1, 1.2, 1.3. Sure, they have faced some good run defenses, but that is really bad. And White has only 1 catch on the season, compared to 12 for CJ, so the passing offense would be even worse.
If Chris Johnson were to get injured, they would be in big trouble on offense. Lendale White is really bad. Check out his ypc on the season: 2.7, 3.3, 3.1, 1.2, 1.3. Sure, they have faced some good run defenses, but that is really bad. And White has only 1 catch on the season, compared to 12 for CJ, so the passing offense would be even worse.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
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I tend to think you are correct.I kind of wonder if it would be going this well (5-0) if Vince were still at the healm. I have to imagine not, but it is really hard to say.
For whatever reason, (strength of O vs strength of D matchup well?) they really play the Colts well and have for a while now. Seems like Titans vs Colts or Jags is always a close one
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
This is pretty elementary. Do you really not know the answer to that?Chase Stuart said:
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
Chase, fwiw, they've played the Jaguars, Ravens and the Vikings to make up 3/5 of their stats. The Ravens and Vikings allow 2.8 and 2.9 YPC respectively.Chase Stuart said:
Titans have a bye this weekend and then get to play KC on the road the following week. It's hard to imagine them not being 6-0 as I'll be shocked if KC is able to score any points on offense against that great Titans Defense. KC's offensive line against a rested Titans D-line is SCARY to think about.
After KC, they get Indy and GB at home in Nashville. I think they'll win at least one of those, so they should be 7-1 or maybe even 8-0. I really like their chances to beat Indy. They're playing at home, they always play Indy tough, Indy can't stop the run, and Indy's offense has been struggling a bit so going against the Titans defense will be hard. Titans are set up perfectly to win that game.
I'd say they are a pretty good lock for the playoffs right now, but a few injuries could change that in a hurry. An injury to either Haynesworth or CJ would be a real blow.
After KC, they get Indy and GB at home in Nashville. I think they'll win at least one of those, so they should be 7-1 or maybe even 8-0. I really like their chances to beat Indy. They're playing at home, they always play Indy tough, Indy can't stop the run, and Indy's offense has been struggling a bit so going against the Titans defense will be hard. Titans are set up perfectly to win that game.
I'd say they are a pretty good lock for the playoffs right now, but a few injuries could change that in a hurry. An injury to either Haynesworth or CJ would be a real blow.
Lash
Footballguy
see i'm a stats guy too but sometimes we tend to trip over them, this is one of those timesthe Titans are running the ball WHEN THE OTHER TEAM KNOWS that they can't throw itthere is no play-action when you can't throw, no running draws on 3rd-and-5 when you can't pass, on 2nd-and-12 they STILL have eight in the boxnow if you say STATISTICALLY there are 10-20 teams then okaybut if you are just saying "better rushing attack" ... no chance there are five teams bettersecond in TDs is amazing when the other team knows that is the only way they can get in the endzoneof your list you posted, I'd only like NYG, WAS, DAL, and MIN rushing attacks better and think if those teams (other than MIN) didn't have a passing game how would they fare?Chase Stuart said:
Ice Cream Man
Footballguy
Stuart: I think very few GMs would take the Jags, Bills, and Seahawks rushing attack over the Titans. In fact, the first two of those teams are struggling big time with the run, and the seahawks have a bad line and Julius Jones? Give me a break -- the seattle GM would take TEN's front 5 and CJ and Lendale in a heartbeat. TEN have an above average rushing attack. They're not mind blowing -- you've made your point -- but to say that they aren't at least in the top15 is just silly.
Others: I'm not sure how saying "if TEN loses their best player, they become a mediocre team" really means anything. You could say that about almost every single team in the league. You could say the same thing about Indy (Manning), Pitt (Ben), Giants (Manning), etc. I'm not sure how that makes TEN any less a threat to go a long way this season.
Others: I'm not sure how saying "if TEN loses their best player, they become a mediocre team" really means anything. You could say that about almost every single team in the league. You could say the same thing about Indy (Manning), Pitt (Ben), Giants (Manning), etc. I'm not sure how that makes TEN any less a threat to go a long way this season.
Tau837
Footballguy
The Ravens have faced three teams other than the Titans:
Cincy - Chris Perry is averaging 2.8 ypc on the season
Cleveland - Jamal Lewis averaged 4.7 ypc
Pittsburgh - no Willie Parker; Mendenhall, Carey Davis, and G Kendall Simmons hurt during game
The Jaguars have faced four teams other than the Titans:
Buffalo - held Lynch to 3.1 ypc
Indy - Addai averaged 4.9 ypc
Houston - held Slaton to 3.3 ypc on 10 carries
Pittsburgh - Moore averaged 5.8 ypc
The Vikings have faced three teams other than the Titans:
Green Bay - Grant averaged 7.7 ypc with a lame hamstring
Indy - shut down Addai (1.3 ypc)
Carolina - shut down Williams & Stewart (2.7 and 2.1 ypc)
IMO this is collectively a mixed bag. I see 4 games where opposing RBs had great ypc, 4 games where these teams collectively held some good RBs to low ypc totals, and a couple games where the result is good but yet not impressive due to the circumstances. In particular, I think Baltimore's run defense is overrated based on small sample size and shutting down some unimpressive runners thus far.
Consider what White averaged against those teams, compared to what they have allowed to other runners:
JAX allowed 2.7 ypc to White, 4.5 ypc to all other runners
CIN allowed 3.3 ypc to White, 4.6 ypc to all other runners
HOU allowed 3.1 ypc to White, 4.8 ypc to all other runners
MIN allowed 1.2 ypc to White, 3.1 ypc to all other runners
BAL allowed 1.3 ypc to White, 2.9 ypc to all other runners
White is not good.
Cincy - Chris Perry is averaging 2.8 ypc on the season
Cleveland - Jamal Lewis averaged 4.7 ypc
Pittsburgh - no Willie Parker; Mendenhall, Carey Davis, and G Kendall Simmons hurt during game
The Jaguars have faced four teams other than the Titans:
Buffalo - held Lynch to 3.1 ypc
Indy - Addai averaged 4.9 ypc
Houston - held Slaton to 3.3 ypc on 10 carries
Pittsburgh - Moore averaged 5.8 ypc
The Vikings have faced three teams other than the Titans:
Green Bay - Grant averaged 7.7 ypc with a lame hamstring
Indy - shut down Addai (1.3 ypc)
Carolina - shut down Williams & Stewart (2.7 and 2.1 ypc)
IMO this is collectively a mixed bag. I see 4 games where opposing RBs had great ypc, 4 games where these teams collectively held some good RBs to low ypc totals, and a couple games where the result is good but yet not impressive due to the circumstances. In particular, I think Baltimore's run defense is overrated based on small sample size and shutting down some unimpressive runners thus far.
Consider what White averaged against those teams, compared to what they have allowed to other runners:
JAX allowed 2.7 ypc to White, 4.5 ypc to all other runners
CIN allowed 3.3 ypc to White, 4.6 ypc to all other runners
HOU allowed 3.1 ypc to White, 4.8 ypc to all other runners
MIN allowed 1.2 ypc to White, 3.1 ypc to all other runners
BAL allowed 1.3 ypc to White, 2.9 ypc to all other runners
White is not good.
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MrBlonde
Footballguy
I'm a huge Lions fan and how you can even come close to comparing these two teams is beyond me....sho nuff said:
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
Something we also need to account for is that 5 of LenDale's 64 attempts on the year have been 1, 1, 1, 1 and 2 yd TD runs. I realize that doesn't make a huge difference, but when one out of every 12.5 carries the MAX you could possibly run for is 1-2 yds, that certainly doesn't help the average.
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Ice Cream Man
Footballguy
I'm not sure what comparing White to other runners really shows. He gets the ball disproportionately in short yardage situations (goal line, 3 and 1). If you're suggesting a short-yardage back gets lower yards per carry than the average runner, I guess you won't find too many people surprised by that. Sure, Lendale isn't a great back, but he's good for what they need him to do, particularly since CJ has come into his own.The Ravens have faced three teams other than the Titans:Cincy - Chris Perry is averaging 2.8 ypc on the seasonCleveland - Jamal Lewis averaged 4.7 ypcPittsburgh - no Willie Parker; Mendenhall, Carey Davis, and G Kendall Simmons hurt during gameThe Jaguars have faced four teams other than the Titans:Buffalo - held Lynch to 3.1 ypcIndy - Addai averaged 4.9 ypcHouston - held Slaton to 3.3 ypc on 10 carriesPittsburgh - Moore averaged 5.8 ypcThe Vikings have faced three teams other than the Titans:Green Bay - Grant averaged 7.7 ypc with a lame hamstringIndy - shut down Addai (1.3 ypc)Carolina - shut down Williams & Stewart (2.7 and 2.1 ypc)IMO this is collectively a mixed bag. I see 4 games where opposing RBs had great ypc, 4 games where these teams collectively held some good RBs to low ypc totals, and a couple games where the result is good but yet not impressive due to the circumstances. In particular, I think Baltimore's run defense is overrated based on small sample size and shutting down some unimpressive runners thus far.Consider what White averaged against those teams, compared to what they have allowed to other runners:JAX allowed 2.7 ypc to White, 4.5 ypc to all other runnersCIN allowed 3.3 ypc to White, 4.6 ypc to all other runnersHOU allowed 3.1 ypc to White, 4.8 ypc to all other runnersMIN allowed 1.2 ypc to White, 3.1 ypc to all other runnersBAL allowed 1.3 ypc to White, 2.9 ypc to all other runnersWhite is not good.
enfuego
Footballguy
White is not really the main ball carrier in TEN, so I'm not sure why this argument is relevant...
renesauz
IBL Representative
These types of statistics can be pretty misleading though. How often does LenWhale get thrown for a loss? While I agree that their runnng game might be slightly over-rated, I'd be hard pressed to name more then 10-12 running games that look better overall, stats be damned. EVERYONE knows they are going to run the ball, everyone stacks the line against them. But on 3rd and 2...LenWhale still gets 2.8. I do believe they need to find a little bit more of a passing game if they want to advance anywhere in the playoffs. While this defense is great, it isn't nearly as dominant as that championship Ravens team.Chase Stuart said:
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
There's a lot of misinformation going on in this thread.
Titans running game just isn't that good. Lendale White is bad, and Chris Johnson is just okay. To think that guys like MJD/Fred Taylor or Lynch/Jackson aren't better is naive.
Just because the team is 5-0 doesn't mean they're very good. The Titans can't pass well and can't run well, and they're likely to fall on their face sooner rather than later.
Titans running game just isn't that good. Lendale White is bad, and Chris Johnson is just okay. To think that guys like MJD/Fred Taylor or Lynch/Jackson aren't better is naive.
Just because the team is 5-0 doesn't mean they're very good. The Titans can't pass well and can't run well, and they're likely to fall on their face sooner rather than later.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
That's a pretty funny example.On 3rd and 2s this year, Lendale White has 8 carries for 8 yards and 1 first down.Marshawn Lynch has 8 carries for 23 yards and 5 first downs. Michael Turner has 8 first downs on 9 carries.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
We'll agree to disagree for now, but we will see eventually.White does what Fisher wants, CJ3 is the game breaker.
11th most rushing 1st downs
10th most rushing yards
27th rushing average
Neither CJ3 or White have fumbled
The last stat is key.
Add to that the lack of a passing game and their stats are even more impressive.
They're an above average duo, I can see 10 better, but not 20.
Definitely a playoff team, and I think they can get through their first game or two. Super Bowl, probably not, but if we told you that the Giants would win it last year, you wouldn't have believed it.
Cmon, you know RB facing 8 in the box vs a nickel D, which is easier?Titans have 2nd most rushes/carries in the NFL(Redskins 167, Titans 166)33.2 per gameYour Jets only have 91 rushes for 22.75 per game, roughly a 33% less carries per gameTitans only average 15 pass completions per game.Weeks 2,3, and 4 they attempted a combined total of 8 pass attempts in the 4th quarter.Does that paint the picture of teams expecting the run and the Titans running right at them anyway?Two of the five weeks they have faced the best and 3rd best run Ds (Ravens and Vikes) in the NFL.Chase Stuart said:
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Yes, the Titans are 11th in first downs. But they're 2nd in carries. Don't you think that's the reason why they rank as high as 11th in first downs?
Take note: the Titans are 26th in total offensive first downs per game. That's a much better indicator of how their offense is doing. And their offense is doing really badly.
Take note: the Titans are 26th in total offensive first downs per game. That's a much better indicator of how their offense is doing. And their offense is doing really badly.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
The Vikings last year were the best running team in football, despite everyone knowing they were going to run the ball. If you're a good running team, you can run the ball, period. It doesn't matter how great your passing game is.I've already shown that Lendale has performed poorly in 3rd-and-2 situations. So maybe his 2.6 YPC isn't an indication that he's much better than his stats, but rather that he's not very good?
Not sure I follow 11th and 26th above...They have the best D in the league though based on yardage allowed and scoring. Of course, they only have to score more than their opponent.They give up 11.2 points per gameMost INTs in NFL (2 per game)2nd most sacks (3 per game)Most forced fumbles (8 total in 5 games)Not only are teams having trouble moving the ball against them, they're wreaking havoc on D creating opportunities for the O.
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