Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
TO makes a fuss prior to camp, Ward is going to (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JAA
- Start date
Chaka
Footballguy
The T.O. v Ward contract situation is not a valid comparison.One is a pro bowl receiver who has played 4 of 5 seasons under his current contract and has far outperformed his compensation.The other is a pro bowl receiver who has played only 1 of 7 seasons under his current contract which he has not outperformed. He may have played up to his compensation but it is unfair to say he has outperformed it. IIRC he was the #2 paid receiver in the league last season.The fact that Hines is considered to be a good guy and a team player while T.O. is viewed as a whiny POS doesn't help public opinion but it is not the reason behind the support for one validity of the claim for one and lack of support for the other.
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
If everyone is gonna hold out, I have a ####### solution that will shut the players up.Everyone gets 1 year deals, no guaranteed money.....and no agents. Everyone negotiates there own deals.But oh wait...i.....they would hate that too, since there is no way to "feed their family" in that scenario.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
exactly what chaka said. Ward has been a 4 time pro bowler and he was 37th highest paid Wide reciever last year. TO just renogiated a new contract last year to make him one of the best paid WRs in the game and now just a year later, that's not enough. Either way, if youre trying to bring TO up or pull Ward down, have fun. The two situations are not even close to the same thing.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
It doesn't make sense to redo T.O.'s deal because he is in year 2. If you are willing to redo T.O.'s deal this year, you have to be willing to redo it every year going forward and give him an annual signing bonus.Hines Ward in the last year of his contract is a completely different story.
JAA
Footballguy
Complete BS!!First, the contracts have no writing in them regarding "performance goals". This is currently being thrown in TOs face. People are saying he couldn't have outperformed his contract, because there is nothing written in his contract to show that. That argument precisely applies to Wards contract situation. Your point is INVALID!
Second, everyone agrees TOs contract sucks. Everyone told him not to sign it. No one has said Wards contract is bad. That makes Ward more of as ### for not playing under a good contract.
Finally, I dont care about how many years who has played under what contract. The NFL has shown us a team or player can turn against the "contract" anytime they want. Ward wasnt complaining the previous years because he was happy. Why now is he not happy? He is not happy because he doesnt have financial security going into the season. DING DING DING!! Look at TOs contract, he doesnt have financial security going into this season for the same reason.
JAA
BlueOnion
Footballguy
I had to correct your post because Drew really has nothing to do with this other than representing TO.So basically TO signed a 7 year deal last year that he was very happy with, however after only 1 season he wants to correct the contract? Who is to say the Eagles will alter the contract to meet TO's new demands only to have TO have new demands next season? TO is only destroying his credibility here. Now one can argue that his actual well-being is more important than his credibility (in regards to NFL contracts), but that doesn't mean Philladelphia should appease his requests.
JAA
Footballguy
I have already conceeded that the situation TO is in is un-ideal. Fact of the matter is, I dont think he had many decisions last year. However, none of that has anything to do with my point.Both players are pro-bowlers. Both players are unhappy with their contract's (their point of view, not ours). Player A will attend training camp. Player B is going to hold out of camp. Player A is being called a distraction and should be traded. Player B is not being called out and is the heard and soul of the team.
You guys can argue the semantics of the situation all you want. Fact of the matter is this double standard sucks and I cant believe the rest of you buy into it.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Chaka
Footballguy
Who says T.O. can't have outperformed his contract? I said I don't feel he did because he was the 2nd best paid receiver in the NFL last season, Hines was 37th. Maybe T.O. WAS the 2nd best receiver in the NFL (you could argue the best) but was Hines 37th? Eight receivers make the pro bowl and Hines has been one of them for the past four seasons. Where is the bigger disparity JAA?
Wow. Who says T.O.s contract sucks? Him? His agent? A couple of media pundits (probably Steven A Smith)? Who says Ward's doesn't suck? You? Apparently the Steelers feel that he is underpaid since they have already offered him the largest contract in Steeler history, which I bet will get signed in short order.
Good for you.
Actually Hines did complain last year but he isn't a whiny media wh##e like T.O. so maybe you forgot. He also honored his contract and came to camp even though he was the 37th highest paid receiver in the NFL. In addition he was promised by the organization that they would revisit his contract situation this season. Pittsburgh knew this was coming. T.O. OTOH promised the Phili organization that he would NOT be asking for a new contract this season so I guess we know how much his word is worth.
Ward does not have any security going into this season. If he sacrifices his body for the team and gets injured WHAM he is done. No settlemen package needs to be provided from the Steelers organization because he will not be under contract.
If T.O. sacrifices his body for the team and gets hurt he will receive a compensation package relative to the commensurate to the terms of the $49 million contract he signed only last year. He has total security.You obviously feel strongly about this but I think you are way off base in trying to compare these two situations. I have no problem if you raise issue with Hines holding out and not honoring the last year on his contract but the comparison with the T.O. situation is
BlueOnion
Footballguy
I am just not buying they are the same scenario. Maybe I am wrong but here are the difference.TO wanted to redo his contract this year and publicly threatened to hold out this year and he used the media to do so. Hines Ward wanted to redo his contract last year and is threatening to hold out this year. Hines Ward of last year may be a better comparison to TO this year.You guys can argue the semantics of the situation all you want. Fact of the matter is this double standard sucks and I cant believe the rest of you buy into it.
It is also worth noting that Hines is most likely going to get a new contract, shortly. So it makes sense to hold out and keep your good health (status-quo). If Hines Ward went to camp and busted his knee or something, his new contract will go up in smoke. Regardless of what happens to TO in camp, his contract was not going to be redone anyway.
Chaka
Footballguy
Slow down there Chachi. Steelers camp has not started yet so let's not call Hines a holdout until it actually happens. Plus anyone who has followed the TO situation knows that the only reason he is showing up for camp is so he doesn't get lose $1.75 million for breech of contract plus the daily fine. In fact I think he said this very thing himself. He still has the option to not show up for week one.And there is still time for Hines to be called out as a distraction but considering that he has shown up for the Steelers mini-camps and kept his mouth shut up until yesterday I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he has not been a distraction. TO has been carping since February, not showing up for mini-camps and throwing Donovan McNabb under a bus in the media regularly.Wake up or maybe Arnh is right and you are
BlueOnion
Footballguy
JAA - lets try looking at this through a different paradigm. In TO's case, the only party that would benefit from redoing his contract is TO. Philly might actually hurt themselves by redoing the contract.In the case of Hines Ward, both parties would benefit from redoing Hines Ward's contract.Does this make a difference? I don't know, but I would like to think so. An argument could be made that Hines Ward wants a new long term deal with the Steelers, however TO cannot honestly say the same thing about the Eagles.It is also worth noting continuity is important to a football team as well. TO has thrown McNabb under the bus while Hines Ward has not. Not sure this makes a difference either.But let me say this, I still think TO has a right to sit out and I am not crucifying him for sitting out. However, I think Philly has a right to keep TO under contract but not let him see the playing field. After all, TO is a perishable good under contract for the Eagles, so they do have an option of keeping him but not using him; much like a recipe and one of the ingrediants (one you already paid for) is not worthy to be mixed with the other ingrediants.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I was waiting for this thread. There is no double standard. Here's the bottom line :1) Ward has been playing for YEARS under a sub-standard contract. He wanted a new deal last year, the Steelers said no because they won't renegotiate until a player is in his walk year. They told him to play out the season and they would make a new deal for him this offseasons top priority. Ward did exactly as he was asked. Ward is not paid commensurate with the top WRs in the game. Ward is a good teammate, a leader, and a positive influence on the team. 2) Owens is playing under a high-paying contract. He wants a new deal, the Eagles said no because they won't renegotiate until a player is in his walk year. Owens refuses to accept this. Owens is paid commensurate with the top WRs in the game - under a contract he JUST signed last season. Owens is neither a leader, nor a positive influence on the team.If that's not enough, here's a simple bottom line - the Eagles want Owens to play out the contract he signed last season. The Steelers WANT to extend Ward to avoid having him become a free agent after the season. Ward's negotiation is as desired by both player and team. Owens' is as desired (typically) by Owens and no one else.If you can't see the difference between these situations, either you're fishing, or your man-love for TO has grown to the point where you are likely sending him nude photos of yourself.
The situations are very different. Ward has something to offer to the Steelers. It is in the best interest of both parties to renegotiate (See Deuce McAllister). TO has nothing to offer. The Eagles didn't want to sign him to a long term contract last year (which is why this was effectively a 2 year deal) and definitely don't want to do it now. Do you want to take a guess as to why? Why would they renegotiate? What's in it for them? So Owens has no shot of accomplishing what he wants. Yet he publicly throws his QB under the bus and has his agent on every talk show making idiotic statements about how it is unfair that owners can cut player (completely ignoring the collective bargainging agreement) Has Ward done any of this?I have already conceeded that the situation TO is in is un-ideal. Fact of the matter is, I dont think he had many decisions last year. However, none of that has anything to do with my point.Both players are pro-bowlers. Both players are unhappy with their contract's (their point of view, not ours). Player A will attend training camp. Player B is going to hold out of camp. Player A is being called a distraction and should be traded. Player B is not being called out and is the heard and soul of the team.
You guys can argue the semantics of the situation all you want. Fact of the matter is this double standard sucks and I cant believe the rest of you buy into it.
The funny part about this is Owens got a short term "pretty good but not great" deal from Philadelphia. Next year he's going to be a free agent (he'll be cut) and because of all of this stupidity, he won't be able to negotiate anything other than a "pretty good" deal again. He's looking for the really big money but he's never, ever going to get it.
JAA, you are truly pathetic.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
Any player who holds out is an a-- in my book....yes that includes even Priest Holmes, Hines Wrd types who deserve more. If they didnt want that contract then dont sign it.
Last edited by a moderator:
He's a tremendous athlete who keeps himself in great shape and is at the top of his profession.I say ### because of his antics, not necessarily the TD celebrations, but regarding comments about Garcia and Mcnabb, the whole SF-BLT-PHI adventure, needing a new contract one year into the deal that he was more than happy to take last year, etc.
I'f I am an nfl owner, I am very hesitant to give this guy big money next year or whenever.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
"I love me some me." - Terrell OwensThat pretty much sums it up. As good as he is on the field, he is such a distraction off the field, it's insane. Between the Dallas incident, the Jeff Garcia comments, the purported feud with McNabb - this guy is all about himself and can't seem to get along with anyone. How long after Philly cuts bait do you think it will be before we start getting comments from him about McNabb's noodle arm and the fact that Donovan used to hit on him in the shower. You really think it won't happen?
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I could have a field day in there without censorship.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
I am not here to dicuss disparity. The only point of view that matters is the players. You point of view of the contract doesnt matter. Everyones antimocity stems from their own perception of the contracts. You can dislike TO for wanting more money, but you also have to dislike Ward for also wanting more.
The NFLPA told TO not to sign that contract. Everyone else seems to know this. Ward was offered the largest Steeler signing bonus in history and he still turned it down!?!?!
Nice comeback, was that all you wanted to say on th matter? You obviously have an opinion, dont hold back now.
Thanks for making my point. The ridicule for TO has nothing to do with his contract desires and EVERYTHING to do with your perception of him through the media. People who allow that are sheep.
Also, please provide any proof that TO would not seek to renegotiate his contract. TO said he would not be a distraction, that hasnt happened. I conceed that point. Something that has lead to all of this was the injury TO suffered during the season. TO went above and beyond the call of his contract. Ask John Abraham from the JETS about going above and beyond.JAA
JAA
Footballguy
Security? HAHAAHA!!! Sounds like you didnt know that TO signed a waiver to play in the SuperBowl. The waiver said that if he gets injured in the SuperBowl the Eagles can choose to null and void any future earnings due him. Sorry but even cry-baby Ward cant beat that one.
You obviously have your :stillers: blinders on. I honestly consider what Ward is doing is worse that what TO has done. Ward wasnt a performer when he signed his contract, he now is. When his contract is done he can have all the money that is due him. If you think it is ok for Ward to ask for a renegotiation because of financial security, you have to allow TO the same right considering what he has put on the line.Oh yea, TO doesnt WANT MORE MONEY!! TO wants what the Eagles promised him garunteed. TO didnt even ask for the biggest Eagles signing bonus ever.You obviously feel strongly about this but I think you are way off base in trying to compare these two situations. I have no problem if you raise issue with Hines holding out and not honoring the last year on his contract but the comparison with the T.O. situation is
JAA
JAA
Footballguy
Interesting. I think the only flaw in you logic is the leverage both WRs have. What makes you so sure TO has much less leverage than Ward? I might have agreed with you prior to reading Ward turned down the largest Steeler signing bonus ever. Either Ward wants to get a good contract done or he wants to make a statement that he was underpaid the previous seasons. Honestly, I dont know nor do I care. I dont think it is fair that TO condemned for his actions while Ward is not. TO is even reporting to camp.I am just not buying they are the same scenario. Maybe I am wrong but here are the difference.TO wanted to redo his contract this year and publicly threatened to hold out this year and he used the media to do so. Hines Ward wanted to redo his contract last year and is threatening to hold out this year. Hines Ward of last year may be a better comparison to TO this year.You guys can argue the semantics of the situation all you want. Fact of the matter is this double standard sucks and I cant believe the rest of you buy into it.
It is also worth noting that Hines is most likely going to get a new contract, shortly. So it makes sense to hold out and keep your good health (status-quo). If Hines Ward went to camp and busted his knee or something, his new contract will go up in smoke. Regardless of what happens to TO in camp, his contract was not going to be redone anyway.
JAA
Footballguy
This isnt fishing, ill even prove it to you. I agree with what you said. Matter of fact I too give Ward the benefit of the doubt. I gave TO that same benefit when I said all along he will report to camp. However, if Ward holds out one day of camp he should get the same criticism that TO has received for his "perceived" hold-out and distraction.Slow down there Chachi. Steelers camp has not started yet so let's not call Hines a holdout until it actually happens. Plus anyone who has followed the TO situation knows that the only reason he is showing up for camp is so he doesn't get lose $1.75 million for breech of contract plus the daily fine. In fact I think he said this very thing himself. He still has the option to not show up for week one.And there is still time for Hines to be called out as a distraction but considering that he has shown up for the Steelers mini-camps and kept his mouth shut up until yesterday I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he has not been a distraction. TO has been carping since February, not showing up for mini-camps and throwing Donovan McNabb under a bus in the media regularly.
Wake up or maybe Arnh is right and you are
JAA
Footballguy
I agree with everything you have said. Both WRs have the right to do whatever they feel is necessary for what they consider their own financial security to be. What I have a problem with is the double-standard with one players being a distraction who should be traded (who will report to camp) and the other being the heard and soul of a team (who [says he] wont report to camp)
BlueOnion
Footballguy
Here is the big difference; Pittsburgh wants to give Hines Ward more money. Ward is simply saying (by his holdout), "Ok, if you want to give me more money than lets have less talk and more action." Now if Pittsburgh said, "Hines, we don't want to give you more money at this point", I am pretty Hines would report to camp.Philly doesn't want to redo TO's contract, which is the big difference in my opinion. TO still has a right to sit out, but it doesn't make any sense.
JAA
Footballguy
I agree with everything except for one point you are missing. TOs "high paying contract" is not garunteed. All TO is asking for is the 3rd year of the contract to be garunteed. Is that too much to ask for someone who put his career and financial future on the line to win his team a NFL Championship? Can you name another player who has done that?
Similar threads
