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To The Man Who Called the Police on 2 Little Girls Instead of Calling (1 Viewer)

Should 911 have been called?

  • Absolutely and these parents were delinquent

    Votes: 35 26.9%
  • Yes, but the parents aren't at fault.

    Votes: 3 2.3%
  • No, but I can understand someone calling

    Votes: 57 43.8%
  • No, and the man who called made a big mistake

    Votes: 35 26.9%

  • Total voters
    130

gianmarco

Footballguy
Letter from Mom

To the man who called the police on two little girls instead of calling their parents:

A couple of weeks ago, on a Sunday at around noon, my family were visiting family friends. Our older child, 6, and theirs, 7, had been playing games on a tablet and getting underfoot all morning, so we sent them outside to get some fresh air. We told them that they could go down to the creek in the woods behind the house, visible from the back windows, where they had been many times before. We made them wear appropriate footwear and packed extra socks and tissues for stuffy noses. We gave them explicit instructions to stay on the near side of the creek. No matter how many times I have reviewed that decision since then, it still always looks like good parenting to me.

Shortly after the girls got to the creek, however, they made another decision—they decided to continue through the woods on a route they knew, walk past the shopping center on the other side, and loop back through another section of woods to the house. They wanted to show that they could do it. This was undoubtedly a poor decision, and it has certainly been made abundantly clear to both of them that this is so. It was not, however, inherently unsafe, or something they were not capable of. It was a poor decision simply because they were disobeying their parents, and creating a situation in which, had anything gone wrong, we would have had no idea where to look for them. Both girls knew where they were going and how to get back, and our daughter’s friend knew her phone number and address. Both girls know how to behave safely around cars. Both girls have even had some self-defense training, if it should come to that. They are competent, responsible little girls, which is why it was so surprising to us that they did what they did—we gave them the freedom they were granted precisely because nothing they had previously done would have lead us to expect this of them, and we trusted them.

They were at the furthest extent of their looping route, less than a thousand feet from the house and twelve minutes after they left us, when they encountered you as they walked through the shopping center, and you stopped and questioned them. They spoke readily to you, because neither of them have been taught that they must not talk to strangers. Strangers are simply people that we don’t know yet, and we refuse to train our children to fear people or shut themselves off from new connections.

I’m sure that you acted in good faith, sir. I can easily guess that you are a product of a culture that has made much of “stranger danger” and become very uncomfortable with the idea of children on their own, not protected from the oft-imagined lurking predator. But I don’t know why you didn’t call us when you were given a phone number that would have reached us immediately. Perhaps you genuinely believed that any parent who would let their children slip away like that was deserving of police scrutiny. Perhaps you have no children, and so imagine that parents can always have perfect control over their young charges, which we clearly didn’t. I very much wish you had just called us—we would have been there in minutes, our children would have been amply horrified by the consequences of their actions, and we would have been duly warned to extend them less trust for a time.

Whatever your reason, you decided that the appropriate thing to do would be to call the police. Did you call 911, I wonder? Did you actually consider two calm, articulate little girls on a walk to be an emergency? I don’t know. Maybe you are just a very firm respecter of authority.

The police came with admirable speed. Somewhat less admirably, they chose to put the girls in the cruiser (with no car seats) rather than, again, resorting to the completely available option of calling their parents to come get them. They brought the girls back to us a total of twenty minutes after they first walked out of the door. They could have just told us what happened and admonished us to keep better tabs on our children. They could have just handed over their official-looking little card about age restrictions (which they incorrectly believed to be law, but which in fact were only county recommendations) and told us not to let it happen again. But you see, when you call the police, this creates pressure on the police to Do Something. So what they did was arrest us—one parent from each family, our choice, with no chance for private conference to decide. They tried to arrest us for felony neglect of a minor, but apparently even the magistrate thought that was ridiculous, so they went for misdemeanor contributing to the delinquency of a minor instead. They informed us that we would be reported to the Department of Social Services and probably contacted by Child Protective Services — which we have been.

Now, we have carefully read all of the relevant laws and recommendations since then, and it is clear to us that we have not actually committed any such crime, for the principle reason that our daughters are not delinquent. They are not “in need of services,” they do not habitually run away, they are certainly not neglected, and they harmed no one. We hope and believe, therefore, that when our court date at long last comes up, we will be acquitted of the charge and we sincerely hope that our records will be expunged, because if they are not, you probably realize that having a criminal record of any sort can be very limiting to one’s career and opportunities.

By now, as you have been subpoenaed for the trials of both families, you probably realize a little of what you have wrought. I hope that you are dismayed. Even so, I find it difficult to imagine that you have any idea of the fear, shock, humiliation, and rage that our families have experienced because of all this. I find it difficult to imagine that you know what it’s like to be afraid that your own government will punish you for having done your best to be a good parent. To be arrested for absolutely nothing anyone is even claiming that you did, in the middle of a peaceful afternoon of sewing and childcare. To jump every time the phone rings, every time a car slows down. To forget for a few minutes or an hour, as the days go by, and then suddenly remember with a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach. To have to let a stranger into your house—a stranger with the virtually unchecked power to take your children away from you—so that she can poke around and interrogate your child and decide whether you are fit parents. To see your confident, strong-willed child afraid to play outside or let her little sister do so, because the lesson she has taken from this is to “never go outside.”

There are also more tangible problems—several thousand dollars in lawyer’s fees, for example, which we will not get back even if we are declared wholly guiltless. And if, heaven forbid, a further miscarriage of justice declares two devoted parents to be criminals, then there will be large fines and much, much larger blots on their record and reputation from then on.

Possibly you believe that, while all of this is unfortunate, it is a necessary side effect of a reasonable effort to keep children safe from predators and abusive or neglectful parents. Do you remember when you were a child? Did you ever roam the neighborhood with your friends, or walk home from school, or go to the gas station to buy candy? Maybe you walked to the library from time to time. We did all of those things, and gained skill, independence, and confidence by doing so. No one believed that our parents were neglectful. Perhaps you believe, as many do, that those are bygone days of relative peace and security. If so, you may be interested to know that this is entirely a media-created illusion, a product of the sheer selling power of horror stories and “stranger danger.” Crime rates, against both children and adults, are actually lower now than when we were children. What’s more, the overwhelming majority of missing children are taken by relatives, or run away, or are simply abandoned. Only a tiny fraction of them are kidnapped by strangers.

Our daughters disobeyed us, yes. But did they create an emergency? Were they in imminent danger that required the police? I cannot believe that it is so. By turning to the police for every problem, real or imagined, we waste their time and our money, and we create enormous pressure on them to Prevent Bad Things From Happening and thus to Do Something About It. The consequences of which I hope you now see clearly. By living in fear of the wildly improbable, we deprive our children of the chance to learn and explore and grow up. I hope that next time you see a child in public and don’t see a caretaker right away, you’ll consider just being a good neighbor, maybe asking the child if he or she needs help, maybe waiting by the child until a caretaker can be found if you really, really feel the need.

Maybe you could save another family from the terrible, terrible experience we—and others like us—have had. – D.C. Mom
I did this and far more when I was a kid along with many friends. It's crazy to me to think this is now a real issue. Agree or disagree?

 
I think calling the police, in this instance, seems excessive. That said:

1. Twelve minutes is a LONG time for young kids to be out wandering without the watchful eye of a parent. You can't smother kids...or they'll never learn any independence and/or rebel (even harder) as they get older. But I have an eight-year old (and an 11 year old). And the eight-year old? Either my wife or I have eyeballs on her every 4-5 minutes in our yard. And she's never more than a block away from either one of us (without being in the care of another trusted adult). It's not that we're paranoid! Rather, she is half our world (our oldest is the other half), and we both feel it is our job to make sure she is safe at all times. At age 6? I'm not sure we'd even have let her be outside in our yard without one of us out there with her. But we took GREAT care to make sure she never felt like we were always watching her...smothering her. We'd just be "weeding in the garden" or peeking out the window while she was in the yard or treehouse...making sure she was okay.

2. "Mom" seems to be blaming the person who called 9-1-1 for the trouble she's in. If "mom" wouldn't have probably been preoccupied with "chit chat time" with the other mom, "mom" would have realized that the kids weren't where they were supposed to be...several minutes earlier. I don't think the police needed to be called! But if you're an adult and you see a 6 and 7 year old roaming around without supervision, it certainly would get your attention...and have warning lights and buzzers going off in your head about no parent knowing where their kids are. And what if said caller really had a place to be? Why is it their responsibility to call the kids' parents (who they may or may not think aren't exactly doing a bang-up job of keeping track of their kids) and stand around waiting until "mom" can pry herself away from chit-chat time long enough to swing on by?

3. What if the caller hadn't called 9-1-1, couldn't hang around and wait for "mom" to show up, and those kids ended up getting hit by a car? Were welcomed into some chester's van? Granted, the odds of either happening are astronomical! But what if it did happen? The caller sees those kids' faces on the 10pm news, and spends the rest of their life knowing they could have prevented a tragedy. Has to potentially face "mom" and answer "why didn't you do anything to prevent this when you had the chance?"

Again, if it were me? I'd probably have called the parents. But the caller did what he/she thought was in the best interest (and safety) of those children. And if "mom" wants to blame them for that? Not cool. But somebody (else) ALWAYS needs to be to blame with "it" happens in our lives, right?! So I guess "caller" is "mom's" way of coping.

 
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I was a free-range kid when I was like 10 or 11 years old; 6, not so much.... probably because my decision making skills sucked really bad.

 
D.C. Mom made a number of good points. She's also annoying as ####.

 
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It's shocking, shocking I say, to think that 2 little girls sent outside to play by a creek by themselves, but given stern directions on what to do, somehow disobeyed those directions.

 
datonn said:
But I have an eight-year old (and an 11 year old). And the eight-year old? Either my wife or I have eyeballs on her every 4-5 minutes in our yard.
You can't let your 8 year old in the yard more than 5 minutes without checking on her/him?

 
Probably could have been handled differently by everyone.

The woman says the police showed up twenty minutes after the girls left. That does seem a bit long to not at least look to make sure the girls were where they were supposed to be.

The guy who saw the girls probably could have at least tried the number the girls gave as the home number. Its possible like datonn mentioned that he may not have time to wait for the parents so I understand why he called the police instead.

I would think the police could have made a report and contacted CPS and if they found real wrongdoing then an arrest could be made. I may be wrong about that but it seems like it should be a reasonable alternative to immediately arresting one of each child's parents.

It seems to me the judge was reasonable dismissing the most severe charge.

 
In today's world, you don't let 6 year old kids just wander off. I am not sure what this lady is thinking somehow insisting it was a shark move on her part.

 
Mister CIA said:
I was a free-range kid when I was like 10 or 11 years old; 6, not so much.... probably because my decision making skills sucked really bad.
At 6 I remember running free in the neighborhood with a gang of kids from the neighborhood that were probably as much as 4-5 years older than me. All without supervision. It's amazing I survived.

 
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In today's world, you don't let 6 year old kids just wander off. I am not sure what this lady is thinking somehow insisting it was a shark move on her part.
Today's world is not any more dangerous than the world we grew up in. By most statistics, it's less so.

 
I don't know whether calling the police was appropriate because I couldn't make it to the end of the story. That lady needs to learn to not talk so darn much.

 
6 and 7 years old seems pretty young to me to be out wandering.

And it's funny how the mom tries to set up how safe it was for her to let the girls god wandering because she would be able to see them from the house where they were supposed to go, and how responsible the girls were.

And yet, she didn't check one time in 20 minutes to make sure she could see them and those 6 and 7 year old girls weren't responsible at all.

I think arresting the parents was way over the top though. Maybe a call into child services to put a scare into the stupid mom, by handcuffs and felony charges are insane.

But the mom comes off way worse than she thinks she does.

 
Not only is this woman annoying, she's blaming someone else for her mistake, and she's blaming the wrong someone else. Guy did what he thought was right. Apparently the cops and a bunch of other folks agreed. If anyone overreacted it's probably whomever is bringing the charges.

And I bet we only have half the story here. These people may well be really crappy parents.

 
6 and 7 years old seems pretty young to me to be out wandering.

And it's funny how the mom tries to set up how safe it was for her to let the girls god wandering because she would be able to see them from the house where they were supposed to go, and how responsible the girls were.

And yet, she didn't check one time in 20 minutes to make sure she could see them and those 6 and 7 year old girls weren't responsible at all.

I think arresting the parents was way over the top though. Maybe a call into child services to put a scare into the stupid mom, by handcuffs and felony charges are insane.

But the mom comes off way worse than she thinks she does.
This.
 
Calling the police wasn't unreasonable, but the police arresting the parents is absurd. :thumbdown:
I agree with this. I didn't like the wording of the choices, but chose "yes, parents delinquent". I definitely think no problem calling 911. 6/7 and little girls to boot, is too young to be trouncing about solo, it just is. Delinquency by the parents? Borderline. Arrested? A stern talking to should have sufficed.

 
Not only is this woman annoying, she's blaming someone else for her mistake, and she's blaming the wrong someone else. Guy did what he thought was right. Apparently the cops and a bunch of other folks agreed. If anyone overreacted it's probably whomever is bringing the charges.

And I bet we only have half the story here. These people may well be really crappy parents.
:goodposting:

 
Things that made me laugh:

"Our daughters are very responsible and articulate and even have self defense training! Blah blah blah... Oh, also, they think it's okay to talk to strangers"

"They were at the furthest extent of their loop. Ie: If you hadn't stopped them they would've turned around and started heading home! They most definitely were NOT going to keep walking straight into that busy shopping center..."

"And now they're scared to go outside, you've damaged them for life, that's what they've learned from all of this... Not that they should listen to their parents and not wander off - which you'd think would be the lesson here, but nope. Just mental scarring and fear of the world all caused by the evil jerk who tried to make sure our kids were safe."

 
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The world is so much different than when I was 6 (JFK was still alive then). Nobody would have called the cops. An adult probably would have only paid enough attention to me to determine that I wasn't in or causing trouble. If I was causing trouble they would have given me a boot in the ### and my parents probably would have thanked them.

The guy who called 911 did the right thing IMO. The kids weren't in or causing trouble, but being out and unsupervised like that just isn't socially acceptable anymore (sadly). However, if he had called the parents he could be subjecting himself to a "Mind your own business! How dare you talk to our girls!" rant. I think many would perceive it to be best practice to let the cops handle this kind of stuff, because we believe they're trained and paid to do so.

Arresting the parents? That just seems silly based on what I read. What I read might not be enough to really form an intelligent opinion though.

Unless I missed it, the mom didn't seem to indicate any trauma was experienced by the girls. I would think the ride in the cop car and each having a parent arrested would have been at least somewhat troubling to the girls. Also, the mom couldn't bring herself to show any appreciation to a stranger for taking an interest in her child's safety. The closest she got was to say "I’m sure that you acted in good faith, sir. I can easily guess that you are a product of a culture that has made much of “stranger danger” and become very uncomfortable with the idea of children on their own, not protected from the oft-imagined lurking predator." She seemed only concerned by the effects on the parents (legitimate concerns, but...)

 
I am not sure what it says about me as a parent, but I barely let my 7 year old daughter outside of the house alone, let alone walking around town with a buddy.the only way she is playing out there is in the back and if the dog is with her.

I also this Groves post

 
Don't worry, our 6 and 7 year old girls have been taught self defense in case they need it... No, we haven't taught them not to talk to strangers.

 
Interpretation: Our kids were annoying the hell out of us so we sent them out to play. They wandered off without us noticing and some jackass called the cops. I can't believe the nerve of some people! He should have just called us and we would have come and gotten them and read them the riot act. Now we look like bad people when we're really the best parents in town! And we have to be inconvenienced with police and courts and CPS. Oh bother!

Sounds like a dumb smart woman.

 
Let's blame the guy who was concerned about the safety of your kids while they were wandering around a shopping center alone. I'm sure he was some vindictive person and knew they were gone for 12 minutes, only 1000ft away from home and that you would be arrested.

 
Something tells me this kind stranger knew exactly who these kids were and how much of a ##### their mom was..........

 
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That's a pretty ridiculous overreaction from the cops. From the sound of it, the guy did nothing wrong. The parents sound a little too nonchalant in their concern for their children's safety.

 
datonn said:
But I have an eight-year old (and an 11 year old). And the eight-year old? Either my wife or I have eyeballs on her every 4-5 minutes in our yard.
You can't let your 8 year old in the yard more than 5 minutes without checking on her/him?
Correct. Though "checking on her" doesn't mean she has to see us or talk with us. We just make sure we see where she is, what she's up to, etc. Even in a stealthy way.

Our daughter also has a healthy fear of big dogs...after seeing a neighbor's dog take after my wife one time...in our yard. Bit her with a deep wound in her leg...and the dog had to be put down, since the neighbor never gave the animal its vaccinations/shots. Blood, hospital visit, et al. [hijack] Apparently in our town, the right to own animals that bark 24/7, and are often roaming around a few blocks from their home without a leash, is more important than other human beings not having to listen to said barking or take EXTRA time/care to try and make sure their daughter, a nature and animal lover, is safe...and isn't woken up in the middle of the night with nightmares about dogs biting her or her mom in the neck/face. [/hijack] :kicksrock:

I'm not saying smother your kids...not give them any room to explore and grow their independence! But eight years old isn't old enough for her to be roaming around without us necessarily knowing where she is. And at 6 or 7 (the ages of the kids in the mom's account)? No chance in #### my wife and I would have gone 12+ minutes not having eyeballs on them.

 
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Don't worry, our 6 and 7 year old girls have been taught self defense in case they need it... No, we haven't taught them not to talk to strangers.
The 7 year old had a great guard, and you wouldn't believe the ground and pound from the 6 year old.

I can't believe she made the comment about self defense. As if this would stop a predator.

 
I don't mind the strangers actions. For all the Mother knows, these kids could have been being stalked at that moment. The police are way over the top though. ANd the Mother needs to teach the kids about Stranger Danger.

 
:lmao: @ self-defense training for a 6 year old girl "if it should come to that."
This woman is batty. How hen pecked do you think her husband is? Poor *******.
:yes:

I can see him with eyes closed rubbing his temples as she reads the fifth draft of this to him.
Yep. And when the police said they were going to arrest one person from each family, his hand shot up immediately and said "I'll go." It'd make him look like the noble hero...saving his wife from going to prison for a night or two, taking one for the team. When in reality, prison might have been a couple-day vacation from his wife...plus a couple-day break from having to try and keep his misbehaved kids with wisdom and listening "disabilities" in-line. :P

 
Mister CIA said:
I was a free-range kid when I was like 10 or 11 years old; 6, not so much.... probably because my decision making skills sucked really bad.
I was easily free range at 6--and within a couple miles at 5 actually--but we were military brats and it was an entirely different world then.

eta: these days I am nowhere near as trusting and am on constant alert. It's really sad that it has to be that way.

 
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What if a police had found the girls wandering. What would they have done? Still arrest the moms? They wouldn't be under pressure to Do Something as she put it.

 
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I never quite buy the claim that things are as safe for kids now as 50 years ago. Statistics may be the same, but people are also way more protective of their kids and kids today spend way more time inside. So it's very possible that statistics are where they are only because parents are more careful. In which case a 6 and 7 year old wandering around by themselves are even bigger targets.

And I'll say this about the guy that called the police: in today's world I'd do that 100 times out of 100 instead of calling the parents. A male adult with 2 young girls is just asking for the police to be called on him by another stranger or even risking having the kids make up lies and the parents calling the police. Calling the police himself protected him from insane sexual abuse charges.

 
Interpretation: Our kids were annoying the hell out of us so we sent them out to play. They wandered off without us noticing and some jackass called the cops. I can't believe the nerve of some people! He should have just called us and we would have come and gotten them and read them the riot act. Now we look like bad people when we're really the best parents in town! And we have to be inconvenienced with police and courts and CPS. Oh bother!

Sounds like a dumb smart woman.
Thanks for the Cliff Notes. My head hurt trying to read that.
 

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