TO to San Diego (1 Viewer)

[sholditch]

If AJ Smith brings in TO at the vet minimum, Vincent Jackson loses whatever bargaining power he believes he has. He'll know that the Chargers can do without him for 2010 and he'll know that they know that.

One of two things happen, both of which benefit San Diego:

1. VJ makes good and sits the whole season.

San Diego get an upgrade over both their projected starters for the veteran's minimum, far cheaper than they could acquire anyone else who would represent an upgrade over what they have. Some potential media stunts and locker room headaches are a small risk compared to the potential gain.

2. VJ sees that they won't cave, gets into camp, and plays for his new deal.

Most likely if VJ comes back into camp AJ relents and gives him most if not all of the original tender offer. I could see him doing something like subtracting TO's salary from it, but I doubt he would risk losing Jackson just for that. TO is now competing with Malcolm Floyd for WR2 which will likely get the most out of Floyd through making him compete against a former great. Since TO will be signing vet min, if he can't beat out Floyd for WR2 and is becoming a headache, you cut him from camp.

San Diego gets either an upgrade at WR or VJ back or both for a vet minimum salary

TO gets his shot

VJ gets real and plays his way into a monster deal

Seems like a win-win-win. Does this make too much sense to happen?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

TO won't play for the vet minimum.

It would probably cost more to bring TO in for a year than it would to bring VJ back for a year. (I'm guessing VJ would play for $4–$5 million if push came to shove.)

Also, TO may hurt the team more than he helps it even if he played for free.

 

[CB31]

Yeah, I don't think TO would play for the minimum.

 

[sholditch]

He's an FA a week before camps. I think if he wants to play he needs to get real about that. Suppose he agreed to vet min with tons of escalators?

 

[purestrength]

All this TO talk is starting to bore me.

Call me when he's actually a member of an NFL team. Otherwise, I'll continue to ignore him in PPR drafts and let my opponents get stuck with him -- until Week 1 when they drop him to the waiver wire for someone better.

 

[H.K.]

He's an FA a week before camps. I think if he wants to play he needs to get real about that. Suppose he agreed to vet min with tons of escalators?

He said he wants to be paid starter money if he produces like a starter. Escalators should satisfy that requirement and mitigate SD's risk. If he stinks or creates issues, they can dump him and it won't cost much. If he plays well, they get results and pay him for it. Beggars can't be choosers, and TO is in that boat.SD needs a WR for this season if VJ is out of the picture.

TO seems like he is usually on his best behavior in his first year with a team.

IF they think TO can contribute, it makes sense to me.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Ill take TO this year, Pay him the exact amount you tendered VJax. 3 million n change. Lets go!

 

[sholditch]

Rosenhaus mentioning a new team has entered the picture...maybe that's San Diego?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Rosenhaus mentioning a new team has entered the picture...maybe that's San Diego?

Not AJ Smith's style.David Boston was John Butler's idea, and it's one of the first things AJ un-did when he took over. He's not going to sign an overpriced head-case free agent. After watching AJ Smith run the team for the last seven years, I feel pretty comfortable with that prediction.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Rosenhaus mentioning a new team has entered the picture...maybe that's San Diego?

Not AJ Smith's style.David Boston was John Butler's idea, and it's one of the first things AJ un-did when he took over. He's not going to sign an overpriced head-case free agent. After watching AJ Smith run the team for the last seven years, I feel pretty comfortable with that prediction.

what about when AJ traded for Chambers a couple of yrs ago.... it would make total sense to bring in Owens and tell V-Jax to have a nice yr off.

 

[Ray_T]

Yeah, I don't think TO would play for the minimum.

I dont think so either.but if he liked the team enough He may settle for somewhere in the 4-5 mil range. Whether the chargers want him at that price may be another matter. as for the wrecking the team thing, I think it depends.This team was LT's team, and has slowly transitioned to become Rivers team and I dont know if he has stepped up (leadership wise) to a point where he can stand up to TO. If he has, then TO would be no threat. but if he still has some growing to do in that respect, a guy like TO could be a cancer in the dressing room.perhaps some San Diego Homies could give us more info on what kind of Leader Rivers has turned out to be.Where I live, I just dont hear enough of that kind of news to make an educated guess on this matter.

 

[sholditch]

You are assuming overpriced which I don't think you can assume, and you're completely ignoring how bucking convention in thinking would be so completely beneficial to Smith in this situation.

The vet minimum is 820k for TO (who I think has been in the league at least 11 years) and you could easily build in escalators with no guaranteed money. Add in a 180k bonus for starting all sixteen games, 500k per 500 yards receiving. That way, if he started all 16 and had a 1k yard season, he'd get 2 million for the year. Considering that he's looking at cooling his heels all season, that's a pretty attractive offer.

 

[Montana16]

Yea I agree TO is a great fit in SD this year. Let vjax sit all yr if he wants, TO would be foolish not to want to play in SD near where he lives for even a few million. Plus the team would sell out the jerseys like buffalo, plus if theres lots of incentives you might get a better year out of TO that you would out of overrated vjax anyway. (if TO can learn to y'know, catch the ball.

 

[FUBAR]

Yeah, I don't think TO would play for the minimum.

I dont think so either.but if he liked the team enough He may settle for somewhere in the 4-5 mil range. Whether the chargers want him at that price may be another matter. as for the wrecking the team thing, I think it depends.This team was LT's team, and has slowly transitioned to become Rivers team and I dont know if he has stepped up (leadership wise) to a point where he can stand up to TO. If he has, then TO would be no threat. but if he still has some growing to do in that respect, a guy like TO could be a cancer in the dressing room.perhaps some San Diego Homies could give us more info on what kind of Leader Rivers has turned out to be.Where I live, I just dont hear enough of that kind of news to make an educated guess on this matter.

I agree with what you're saying in principle, but you might want to change that "follows closely" icon.

 

[BoltBacker]

Rosenhaus mentioning a new team has entered the picture...maybe that's San Diego?

Not AJ Smith's style.David Boston was John Butler's idea, and it's one of the first things AJ un-did when he took over. He's not going to sign an overpriced head-case free agent. After watching AJ Smith run the team for the last seven years, I feel pretty comfortable with that prediction.

what about when AJ traded for Chambers a couple of yrs ago.... it would make total sense to bring in Owens and tell V-Jax to have a nice yr off.

Completely different imo.Chambers was brought in when SD was a rush-first team to stretch the field and the WR corp was weaker than it is now.On the flip side TO is a very volatile influence during the game on the sidelines. Rivers can be volatile on the sidelines himself. Rivers and TO on the same sideline when things aren't going well would be a disaster.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I hate to say it as a KC fan but this just makes too much sense for this to happen.....honestly as a SD GM as soon as VJ start coping an attitude, my first call would have been to TO.....I think he is past the drama that he used to bring to the locker room or sideline and he would be a huge addition to any team....honestly I am stunned that he hasn't been signed yet, but I think that has more to do with the timing/money than anything else.....some team is going to time it right and get a very solid NFL WR....

 

[Tau837]

IMO San Diego without VJax does not have the WR problem that posters in this thread are perceiving. IMO there is a zero percent chance that San Diego will sign Owens, regardless of Jackson's status. And I'm happy about that as a Chargers fan.

 

[Donnybrook]

I wonder if San Diego will be interested in one of the Cowboys cast-offs? Patrick Crayton or Sam Hurd could be available after training camp.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

IMO San Diego without VJax does not have the WR problem that posters in this thread are perceiving. IMO there is a zero percent chance that San Diego will sign Owens, regardless of Jackson's status. And I'm happy about that as a Chargers fan.

i think your going to be surprised how average Floyd, Naanee and B.Davis and J.Reed are.

 

[Tau837]

IMO San Diego without VJax does not have the WR problem that posters in this thread are perceiving. IMO there is a zero percent chance that San Diego will sign Owens, regardless of Jackson's status. And I'm happy about that as a Chargers fan.

i think your going to be surprised how average Floyd, Naanee and B.Davis and J.Reed are.

I think Rivers is talented enough to make it work. I think you'll be surprised how well the passing game will work with the gropu they have, if it comes to that and Jackson misses several games.

 

[BoltBacker]

IMO San Diego without VJax does not have the WR problem that posters in this thread are perceiving. IMO there is a zero percent chance that San Diego will sign Owens, regardless of Jackson's status. And I'm happy about that as a Chargers fan.

i think your going to be surprised how average Floyd, Naanee and B.Davis and J.Reed are.

I think they'll be fine IF Gates is 100% all season. A lot of people make a big deal about Floyd not being a true #1 WR but when you have an all-league TE and a receiver out of the backfield the quality of Sproles I think you can get by with that group. Honestly, I've wanted to see Floyd/Naane/Davis to get more opportunity and would be interested to see if Williams can make a dent in that group. It will be interesting to see if any of them step up. If they do and Jackson does end up reporting by the playoffs then it may be a net positive going into the playoffs.The other big IF is whether or not the running game will get back on track with the addition of Mathews. I'm a bit skeptical but if you spend a 1st and 2nd rounder to get him you would think the team expects him to take a load off the passing game.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Gates is pretty good, too.

Losing Vincent Jackson hurts, but signing Terrell Owens would hurt more. JMHO.

 

[BoltBacker]

I wonder if San Diego will be interested in one of the Cowboys cast-offs? Patrick Crayton or Sam Hurd could be available after training camp.

I'm not as down on Reed as most seem to be but I would consider Crayton an upgrade.

 

[CB31]

I wonder if San Diego will be interested in one of the Cowboys cast-offs? Patrick Crayton or Sam Hurd could be available after training camp.

I'd rather they took a step and took Ogletree instead of taking either of those guys.

 

[VaCatFan]

Rumor had it that TO wanted 5M per season. I'm thinking AJ isn't gonna pay that to put Jackson in his place.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

IMO San Diego without VJax does not have the WR problem that posters in this thread are perceiving. IMO there is a zero percent chance that San Diego will sign Owens, regardless of Jackson's status. And I'm happy about that as a Chargers fan.

i think your going to be surprised how average Floyd, Naanee and B.Davis and J.Reed are.

I think Rivers is talented enough to make it work. I think you'll be surprised how well the passing game will work with the gropu they have, if it comes to that and Jackson misses several games.

Of course you do

 

[sholditch]

Rumor had it that TO wanted 5M per season. I'm thinking AJ isn't gonna pay that to put Jackson in his place.

There's no way that number sticks. Eventually Rosenhaus is going to start pressuring him to take less money, and maybe, just maybe, as the season draws closer and he's still on his couch, he realizes that nobody thinks he's really that good anymore. It's a longshot, but I bet that $5m figure is already a thing of the past.

 

[Tau837]

IMO San Diego without VJax does not have the WR problem that posters in this thread are perceiving. IMO there is a zero percent chance that San Diego will sign Owens, regardless of Jackson's status. And I'm happy about that as a Chargers fan.

i think your going to be surprised how average Floyd, Naanee and B.Davis and J.Reed are.

I think Rivers is talented enough to make it work. I think you'll be surprised how well the passing game will work with the gropu they have, if it comes to that and Jackson misses several games.

Of course you do

What's your point?

 

[sholditch]

Essentially my point is this:

Eventually reality sets in on all fronts

1. AJ Smith realizes he has backed his way into a possible lost season because of no WR1

2. VJ is slowly learning he's not going to win a stare-down with AJ Smith

3. TO is slowly realizing he is no longer guaranteed a roster spot in the NFL

By a fairly simple and inexpensive experiment, all three of these parties can get themselves out of the corner they have painted themselves into. And if VJax doesn't play ball, 1 and 2 come out just fine for it.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

AJ Smith on the possibility of signing Terrell Owens: "We’re all set right now with our receivers. I don’t want to be involved. A lot of people have us targeted, but they know I wouldn't do it." (link)

 

[Raiderfan32904]

You know, us Raider fans on another board already had this discussion just after the NFL draft. It was assumed that our WR corp was young/untested/inexperienced. I was excited by TO, but after a healthy debate, I relented and agreed it was a really bad idea. I think you Chargers fans are going through the same type of hope and denial that I and few other Raider fans have recently gone through. TO is not the answer. If he was so in demand, why is already making his life some sideshow MTV circus, and whining about the media costing him an NFL job? AJ Smith is smart to cross TO off his list. Others mentioned like P. Crayton are no more talented than your current group.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Norv Turner would be eatin' alive by T.O.

He couldn't handle him on his best day.

 

[identikit]

A.J. Smith on Terrell Owens: "We're all set right now with receivers"

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on July 18, 2010 10:15 AM ET

The Chargers may be desperate for a physical receiving threat with Vincent Jackson's situation uncertain, but they want no part of Terrell Owens.

"We're all set right now with our receivers," Chargers G.M. A.J. Smith told Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune. "I don't want to be involved. A lot of people have us targeted, but they know I wouldn't do it."

The Chargers already signed a former Bills receiver -- Josh Reed -- to help take up space until Jackson returns to the team. Smith says he expects Jackson and tackle Marcus McNeill to sit out ten games.

"I don't know if our guys or their agents think A.J. will fold, but my history should tell you something," Smith said. "I won't be telling anything to these two guys; I have nothing to discuss."

When A.J. goes third person, you know he means business.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...with-receivers/

 

[zoonation]

San Diego is "all set" with its receivers? Good luck with that.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Rosenhaus mentioning a new team has entered the picture...maybe that's San Diego?

Rosenhaus is talking out of his ###. I heard that interview on NFL Live, and it was just agent speak. If several teams were really that eager to sign Owens, he would have been signed by now.

San Diego is "all set" with its receivers? Good luck with that.

That is their PC way of saying, "We want no part of Terrell Owens."

 

[Couch Potato]

IMO San Diego without VJax does not have the WR problem that posters in this thread are perceiving. IMO there is a zero percent chance that San Diego will sign Owens, regardless of Jackson's status. And I'm happy about that as a Chargers fan.

i think your going to be surprised how average Floyd, Naanee and B.Davis and J.Reed are.

I think Rivers is talented enough to make it work. I think you'll be surprised how well the passing game will work with the gropu they have, if it comes to that and Jackson misses several games.

Of course you do

What's your point?

I can help with that one JWB. You see, this guy who enjoys calling himself bicycle seat sniffer (I always thought that title was really classy, and fits its owner) often provides such enlightening comments. I remember when, for example, I was suggesting that then-unknown Sims-Walker would break out one day, he provided us with the well thought out " " as his entire response. He's very respectful that way. So JWB, what BSS is saying is that because you have an NC State logo as your avatar and have always supported Rivers on this board, and Rivers went to NC State, and you are a Chargers fan, you are a blinded Rivers jock sniffer (oops, there's that sniffer word again) and that's as deep as you are able to think. Never mind the fact that you were helping the rest of us take notice of Rivers with well supported commentary when Rivers had a dynasty ranking in the 20s (and many so-called 'experts' said his side-arm delivery would keep him from being good), and those who listened to you have reaped the rewards of top-8 fantasy finishes in 3 of the last 4 years including QB3 in 2008. Yeah, never mind the fact that you've been RIGHT ALL ALONG about Rivers' career. All you are is a homer, so of course you'd think Rivers will overcome the loss of Jackson and be able to make the other receivers around him better. There's no reason for BSS to try intelligently discussing the likelihood of you being right or wrong, because it's so much simpler to make an insulting snide remark and move on to the next thread he'll contribute nothing worthwhile to. He does two kinds of posts here. (1) Regurgitate the obvious (the obvious often being incorrect), and (2) make comments like the one above.Disclaimer -- JWB is my partner on a team we have co-owned for a few years now, and I was in another league with him going back to 2003, so I've seen first hand and up close how first-rate his knowledge and FF abilities are. Condescending responses from guys who have 1/10th his ability annoy me.

 

[Todem]

It would be a good signing for a team with Super Bowl Aspirations. They need a WR right now despite what some think. Owens and Gates? That would be huge.

I understand the concerns with TO's past run-ins with teammates and QB's....but this is Rivers team and it seems TO understands he is no doubt in the twilight of his HOF career.

I would snap him up quick. He can still ball and be a factor and help you win.

 

[Tau837]

i think your going to be surprised how average Floyd, Naanee and B.Davis and J.Reed are.

I think Rivers is talented enough to make it work. I think you'll be surprised how well the passing game will work with the gropu they have, if it comes to that and Jackson misses several games.

Of course you do

What's your point?

I can help with that one JWB. You see, this guy who enjoys calling himself bicycle seat sniffer (I always thought that title was really classy, and fits its owner) often provides such enlightening comments. I remember when, for example, I was suggesting that then-unknown Sims-Walker would break out one day, he provided us with the well thought out " " as his entire response. He's very respectful that way. So JWB, what BSS is saying is that because you have an NC State logo as your avatar and have always supported Rivers on this board, and Rivers went to NC State, and you are a Chargers fan, you are a blinded Rivers jock sniffer (oops, there's that sniffer word again) and that's as deep as you are able to think. Never mind the fact that you were helping the rest of us take notice of Rivers with well supported commentary when Rivers had a dynasty ranking in the 20s (and many so-called 'experts' said his side-arm delivery would keep him from being good), and those who listened to you have reaped the rewards of top-8 fantasy finishes in 3 of the last 4 years including QB3 in 2008. Yeah, never mind the fact that you've been RIGHT ALL ALONG about Rivers' career. All you are is a homer, so of course you'd think Rivers will overcome the loss of Jackson and be able to make the other receivers around him better. There's no reason for BSS to try intelligently discussing the likelihood of you being right or wrong, because it's so much simpler to make an insulting snide remark and move on to the next thread he'll contribute nothing worthwhile to. He does two kinds of posts here. (1) Regurgitate the obvious (the obvious often being incorrect), and (2) make comments like the one above.Disclaimer -- JWB is my partner on a team we have co-owned for a few years now, and I was in another league with him going back to 2003, so I've seen first hand and up close how first-rate his knowledge and FF abilities are. Condescending responses from guys who have 1/10th his ability annoy me.

Thanks. I figured it was related to my well known support of Rivers. But if he answered that way, I was going to follow up by asking if he thinks I've been wrong about him. <_<Regardless, I think A.J. Smith has now indicated that he agrees with me. That doesn't mean we both cannot be wrong. We'll see.

 

[tommyGunZ]

As a Charger fan, I want no part of TO. Not for the minimum, not for free.

 

[Da Guru]

As a Charger fan, I want no part of TO. Not for the minimum, not for free.

TO is not worth the baggage anymore. Plus any coach who is not a lame duck wants no part of TO.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I can help with that one JWB. You see, this guy who enjoys calling himself bicycle seat sniffer (I always thought that title was really classy, and fits its owner) often provides such enlightening comments. I remember when, for example, I was suggesting that then-unknown Sims-Walker would break out one day, he provided us with the well thought out " " as his entire response. He's very respectful that way. So JWB, what BSS is saying is that because you have an NC State logo as your avatar and have always supported Rivers on this board, and Rivers went to NC State, and you are a Chargers fan, you are a blinded Rivers jock sniffer (oops, there's that sniffer word again) and that's as deep as you are able to think. Never mind the fact that you were helping the rest of us take notice of Rivers with well supported commentary when Rivers had a dynasty ranking in the 20s (and many so-called 'experts' said his side-arm delivery would keep him from being good), and those who listened to you have reaped the rewards of top-8 fantasy finishes in 3 of the last 4 years including QB3 in 2008. Yeah, never mind the fact that you've been RIGHT ALL ALONG about Rivers' career. All you are is a homer, so of course you'd think Rivers will overcome the loss of Jackson and be able to make the other receivers around him better. There's no reason for BSS to try intelligently discussing the likelihood of you being right or wrong, because it's so much simpler to make an insulting snide remark and move on to the next thread he'll contribute nothing worthwhile to. He does two kinds of posts here. (1) Regurgitate the obvious (the obvious often being incorrect), and (2) make comments like the one above.Disclaimer -- JWB is my partner on a team we have co-owned for a few years now, and I was in another league with him going back to 2003, so I've seen first hand and up close how first-rate his knowledge and FF abilities are. Condescending responses from guys who have 1/10th his ability annoy me.

geez dude did I kick your puppy or something? Yeah Im terrible at FF and should never post anything. The WR on SD are very average without vjax. Can Rivers make them into world beaters? Doubt it. Doubt you want Floyd or Naanee on your roster in any format Dynasty, Re-draft, ppr, TD heavy.JWB is a chargers homer and a super Rivers supporter, I never had an issue with him.Oh i remember why yo uare so bent, I said that MSW was injury prone and has a lousy QB. ANd you defended him to the tilt. And if you go back into the MSW thread and look I gave you props, I guess you missed that.And BTW, MSW had an excellent half of one season. but failed to crack 1K yards and was pretty much a non factor after week12. Seems like an average NFL wr to me. Ill patiently wait for your list of MSW excuses.

 

[Donnybrook]

I wonder if San Diego will be interested in one of the Cowboys cast-offs? Patrick Crayton or Sam Hurd could be available after training camp.