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Top NFL 1st Round Rookie WR - Coleman, Fuller, Doctson, Treadwell (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mr roboto
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mr roboto
Footballguy
My thoughts...
Coleman - electric, frightening with the ball in his hands. Should get fed a ton year 1 in Cleveland. Questions about his proficiency across the route tree and his hands. He will have the volume of targets to reach 1,000 yds his rookie year. Long term I'm not sure he will be the best of this group.
Fuller - kind of a WTF draft pick with Doctson and Treadwell still available. Good fit for HOU with Hopkins as a target monster in the shorter passing game. I think his upside both short and long term will be limited due to his propensity to body catch everything.
Doctson - Great all around WR. Fast enough, tremendous ball skills, red zone is where he really shines. He's the oldest of this group which doesn't bother me at all. Year 1 targets will be hard to come by due to WAS weapons already there but I think he will be their WR1 long term.
Treadwell - best prospect out of HS, widely considered the top prospect till his slow 40 and sub-par agility results. But he's coming off a devastating injury from last year and he's very young. For such a young player he's the most technically sound which is remarkable. If he can build some speed he could be a 15-year perennial top 20 guy but MIN in 2016 will likely resemble MIN from 2015 - not a ton of opportunity.
Coleman - electric, frightening with the ball in his hands. Should get fed a ton year 1 in Cleveland. Questions about his proficiency across the route tree and his hands. He will have the volume of targets to reach 1,000 yds his rookie year. Long term I'm not sure he will be the best of this group.
Fuller - kind of a WTF draft pick with Doctson and Treadwell still available. Good fit for HOU with Hopkins as a target monster in the shorter passing game. I think his upside both short and long term will be limited due to his propensity to body catch everything.
Doctson - Great all around WR. Fast enough, tremendous ball skills, red zone is where he really shines. He's the oldest of this group which doesn't bother me at all. Year 1 targets will be hard to come by due to WAS weapons already there but I think he will be their WR1 long term.
Treadwell - best prospect out of HS, widely considered the top prospect till his slow 40 and sub-par agility results. But he's coming off a devastating injury from last year and he's very young. For such a young player he's the most technically sound which is remarkable. If he can build some speed he could be a 15-year perennial top 20 guy but MIN in 2016 will likely resemble MIN from 2015 - not a ton of opportunity.
gianmarco
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
spider321
Footballguy
Wrong potential ranking
1 - JohnnyU
Spews this bs in every thread ranking
1 - JohnnyU
No one else cares that you hate Treadwell ranking
1 - JohnnyU
We get it, now please stop ranking
1 - JohnnyU
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Run It Up
Footballguy
My thoughts, Treadwell landed in a great spot and I think Teddy is on an upward trajectory and think he has what it takes to be a truly great QB. Think Treadwell has an okay rookie season and a good career.
I think Doctson is the best WR of the group and landed in a situation where the first year is gonna be a ####show. But come 2017 Doctson, Crowder and Reed are the guys.
Coleman landed in Cleveland, they could bring in Aaron Rodgers tomorrow and I wouldn't like his chances. Coleman was my WR3 going into the draft, probably still is - could care less about whether he will get fed in Cleveland because until they prove otherwise, I'm convinced they destroy or misuse everything that comes through there.
I think Doctson is the best WR of the group and landed in a situation where the first year is gonna be a ####show. But come 2017 Doctson, Crowder and Reed are the guys.
Coleman landed in Cleveland, they could bring in Aaron Rodgers tomorrow and I wouldn't like his chances. Coleman was my WR3 going into the draft, probably still is - could care less about whether he will get fed in Cleveland because until they prove otherwise, I'm convinced they destroy or misuse everything that comes through there.
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mr roboto
Footballguy
Maybe. But these are the first round WRs. I just figure it will be interesting to revisit this end of year and in a few years.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Having the #1 scoring fantasy WR in football just a few years ago doesn't prove otherwise? Making 1000 yard receivers out of two complete nobodies last year that most of us hadn't even heard of prior to the season doesn't prove otherwise?
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Run It Up
Footballguy
Yeah, have they had consecutive seasons from ANY skill player in the last who cares how long? I used to think it was limited to the RBs they roll through there, but honestly other than Gordon, and Benjamin last year - I can't think of a WR that even registered fantasy wise.
Cameron bombed in Miami, whether that was scheming (my opinion) or not still remains to be seen.
Its not a plague or a curse, but its something - there is something real that either entirely mismanages or ruins players. Maybe it was Farmer, maybe its Haslam, we'll see - Sashi Brown has his work cut out for him. I thought they had an amazing draft this year, I like what they are trying to do and I look forward to the Pats adding Scooby Wright when the Browns can't figure it out.
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Not really their fault that Gordon can't lay off the ganga, otherwise I think the odds are pretty good that he would be neck and neck with Beckham for the title of consensus #1 dynasty player.
It's actually kind of odd. Quite a few guys have actually been BETTER in Cleveland than elsewhere in the last few years, yet people consider players going there a bad thing. Trent was far better in Cleveland than in Indy, which was supposed to be a dream spot. Cameron was better in Cleveland than Miami. Gordon of course was a beast, and I think the odds are pretty decent that Benjamin underperforms this year in San Diego compared to last in Cleveland. Even McCown had his second best season of his 13 year career last year in Cleveland.
Yeah maybe they haven't done a good job of holding on to these guys, but if your worry is that playing in Cleveland is bad then that should be a good thing. Regardless, unlike Cameron/Benjamin, Coleman is already signed long-term.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Borden
Footballguy
Gordon's stats seem to say that his numbers were aided by the Browns being behind. 1013 yards when trailing. 1193 when 10 or more yards to go. First half yards: 667 second half yards 979.
Benjamin stats have him getting 607 when trailing. 568 with 10 or more to go. But his first half to second half stats are about the same.
Barnidge 833 trailing, 627 at ten or more, 1st/2nd is 556/467.
The theme seems to be that Cleveland is going to be trailing and they're going to have to pass. I'm not calling it garbage time but they do seem to be playing catch up enough to produce viable receiving targets.
Hot Take!!!: Cleveland sucks and they'll have to throw to Coleman. A lot.
Benjamin stats have him getting 607 when trailing. 568 with 10 or more to go. But his first half to second half stats are about the same.
Barnidge 833 trailing, 627 at ten or more, 1st/2nd is 556/467.
The theme seems to be that Cleveland is going to be trailing and they're going to have to pass. I'm not calling it garbage time but they do seem to be playing catch up enough to produce viable receiving targets.
Hot Take!!!: Cleveland sucks and they'll have to throw to Coleman. A lot.
renesauz
IBL Representative
ummmm...don't ALL teams pass more when behind? And when down 10 or more in the fourth...don't ALL teams end up 85% pass?
What you wrote isn't saying what I think you think it's saying
bostonfred
Footballguy
Did any of these guys go to a team with a horrendous defense, a hall of fame quarterback, and a good complimentary receiver who isn't a true number one? Oh, just Michael Thomas.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I don't think it's that hard to figure out.Run It Up said:
Players don't want to play in Cleveland. They don't attract free agents. They don't retain free agents. When they do keep a good player, they have to overpay. And the guys that end up there don't work hard because it doesn't matter.
Look at Gordon. Omg so talent. Then he gets busted repeatedly. Even if it wasn't "serious" offenses, he clearly didn't take the offenses seriously enough, either. Where was the locker room to tell him to get his head in the game and not get caught for a while?
Look at manziel. How seriously did he take his job in Cleveland? And how quickly did he leave?
Look at Trent Richardson. Had his best year in Cleveland because they gave him plenty of volume, but his ypc sucked and he admitted later he was lazy.
They need a quarterback, but they can't draft them and won't give them time to develop. Their career passing leader is still Tim couch. They have had 20 starting qbs since 1999 - more than one a year for 17 years - and couch started four years in a row.
They need leadership, but veteran leaders don't want to go there. The only way to get that leadership is to bring in hard workers in the draft and show the low effort guys the door quickly. There are a lot of guys who want an NFL job. Churn that roster until you find the guys who will work for it.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
The title says best rookie WR. We come in here thinking this is a discussion about all rookie WRs.
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Dezbelief
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Dezbelief
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
WHo invited all the lawyers in here to get the thread title legalese "right"?
Anyway, Fuller aside, all three are fungible enough in their floors and ceilings to take any of them in any order. It is probably a waste of time in studying for your ff leagues to give this more than a minute of your time.
SOmebody will look better out of the gates, somebody won't but when we look back on these careers, They will all likely stay wihin a few spots of one another across the long haul.
Anyway, Fuller aside, all three are fungible enough in their floors and ceilings to take any of them in any order. It is probably a waste of time in studying for your ff leagues to give this more than a minute of your time.
SOmebody will look better out of the gates, somebody won't but when we look back on these careers, They will all likely stay wihin a few spots of one another across the long haul.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
As a ND fan I watched a lot of Fuller. There are two big question marks on him. First, which is most often cited, is his hands. The second is his ability to get off the line in press. As for his hands, I think that is not a big deal as some make it out to be. I can only remember one game last year where he really had some bad drops. As the NFL does more press than your typical college with bigger/stronger CB's- my concern is his ability to be able to negotiate that well enough. If he is able to do that on the NFL level then I believe he will be the best receiver in this draft. If he doesn't, he could very well be a total bust. I like the choice for Houston though. He is a good complimentary piece to Hopkins. His speed will need to be something that is taken into consideration- if he shows he can defeat press coverage and get off the line then teams will not be able to give help over the top as they will have double coverage focused on Hopkins. That will likely mean they either play off of him or give help over the top. I can't see them being able to give much help over the top so it could translate to a lot of big plays for Fuller- just like he had a lot of big plays for ND.
Borden
Footballguy
Fuller gets dismissed for a few reasons.
First, his situation. It's bad. He's not the number one on his team and I think the vast majority of people would say he never will be. He plays on a defense first team which tends to lead to a more conservative offense. I think the addition of Miller highlights this. His QB is new to the team and system. Plus, I don't think many people would consider Os to be an elite passer at this point. All this adds up to what will be a low volume of quality targets.
Then you add in his skill set. Deep burner that struggles against press and catch issues. There's ways to work around his press issues with scheme and formations. His catching however is not good. He body catches way way too much and and also has concentration drops. This is what knocks him out of the discussion when you pair it with his likely low volume of quality targets.
First, his situation. It's bad. He's not the number one on his team and I think the vast majority of people would say he never will be. He plays on a defense first team which tends to lead to a more conservative offense. I think the addition of Miller highlights this. His QB is new to the team and system. Plus, I don't think many people would consider Os to be an elite passer at this point. All this adds up to what will be a low volume of quality targets.
Then you add in his skill set. Deep burner that struggles against press and catch issues. There's ways to work around his press issues with scheme and formations. His catching however is not good. He body catches way way too much and and also has concentration drops. This is what knocks him out of the discussion when you pair it with his likely low volume of quality targets.
ZWK
Footballguy
I went with Coleman for both. I thought he was neck-and-neck with Doctson for most talented, and the NFL teams apparently preferred Coleman, so that gives Coleman a clear edge for best career. I also like how the new Cleveland regime has been doing things, so I'm not inclined to punish Coleman for the sins of Browns past.
For this year, Coleman & Treadwell are the two WRs who seem likely to step straight into the team's WR1 role. Treadwell actually has a QB, but I think Coleman has more talent and his team is likely to throw more (there is even talk of drawing on some of Baylor's schemes). There's also a question of how good the Bridgewater-Treadwell fit is - Bridgewater has done better with short to intermediate throws than with deep balls which works in Treadwell's favor because that's his game, but he has also been somewhat hesitant to throw into tight windows which works against Treadwell (who isn't great at creating separation). It was a close call, but I ended up going with Coleman.
For this year, Coleman & Treadwell are the two WRs who seem likely to step straight into the team's WR1 role. Treadwell actually has a QB, but I think Coleman has more talent and his team is likely to throw more (there is even talk of drawing on some of Baylor's schemes). There's also a question of how good the Bridgewater-Treadwell fit is - Bridgewater has done better with short to intermediate throws than with deep balls which works in Treadwell's favor because that's his game, but he has also been somewhat hesitant to throw into tight windows which works against Treadwell (who isn't great at creating separation). It was a close call, but I ended up going with Coleman.
EBF
Footballguy
It's Coleman or Treadwell for me. I think Coleman probably has a higher ceiling due to him being more versatile, explosive, and athletic. He sorta fits the Antonio Brown mold of being a smaller guy who can just devastate people with his quickness and speed. Baylor may have inflated his production somewhat, but he seems like a legit athlete in his own right. I don't trust Cleveland's front office at all, but he still has the benefit of being the first WR drafted, which objectively tilts the odds in his favor. I don't have the #2 or 3 pick in any leagues this year, but with a gun to my head I take Coleman after Elliott.
I had the #4 pick in a PPR league. I knew Elliott and Coleman would go 1-2. I initially thought I would just sit in the 4 spot and take whoever fell between Doctson and Treadwell, but after looking at it more I decided to move up into the #3 slot and get Treadwell. I paid a pretty steep price to make that happen (gave the 17th overall pick). Was it worth it? Well, I don't view Treadwell as a flawless prospect. He's not an agile or explosive player. He's not going to generate a lot of big plays in the NFL. On the other hand, he plays with pretty good quickness and game speed as a route runner despite his abysmal combine showing. More importantly, he is a big and competitive target who has the right body type, skill set, and mentality to be a force on short-intermediate routes. I don't think he's going to be a big yardage guy, but I think he's going to catch a lot of passes. I think he can be an 80 reception, 1100 yards type of guy with solid red zone numbers. The fact that he's still only 20 years old is an added plus when compared to Docston, who is already 23.
On the topic of Doctson, I'd take him at #4 if I were stuck in that spot, but I'm not a big big fan. Slender frame with just average speed. Great leaping ability and hands. Can he separate though? He reminds me of DeVante Parker from last year's class, who in turn had some similarities with AJ Green and Reggie Wayne. This type of WR can succeed in the NFL, but I just wasn't wowed by his clips. Apart from his jump ball skills, I don't see much that's really special about him. He's not a YAC guy and I'm not sold on his ability to separate against pro corners.
I'm down on Fuller as well. One trick pony deep threat with a light frame and spotty hands. An optimistic comparison would be T.Y. Hilton, but I think he was simply overdrafted because Houston valued his deep presence. It's usually folly to go against draft position and he may end up being good, but I'm not a buyer. He's in the 5-12 range for me in this class, and I don't expect to end up with him in any leagues.
I had the #4 pick in a PPR league. I knew Elliott and Coleman would go 1-2. I initially thought I would just sit in the 4 spot and take whoever fell between Doctson and Treadwell, but after looking at it more I decided to move up into the #3 slot and get Treadwell. I paid a pretty steep price to make that happen (gave the 17th overall pick). Was it worth it? Well, I don't view Treadwell as a flawless prospect. He's not an agile or explosive player. He's not going to generate a lot of big plays in the NFL. On the other hand, he plays with pretty good quickness and game speed as a route runner despite his abysmal combine showing. More importantly, he is a big and competitive target who has the right body type, skill set, and mentality to be a force on short-intermediate routes. I don't think he's going to be a big yardage guy, but I think he's going to catch a lot of passes. I think he can be an 80 reception, 1100 yards type of guy with solid red zone numbers. The fact that he's still only 20 years old is an added plus when compared to Docston, who is already 23.
On the topic of Doctson, I'd take him at #4 if I were stuck in that spot, but I'm not a big big fan. Slender frame with just average speed. Great leaping ability and hands. Can he separate though? He reminds me of DeVante Parker from last year's class, who in turn had some similarities with AJ Green and Reggie Wayne. This type of WR can succeed in the NFL, but I just wasn't wowed by his clips. Apart from his jump ball skills, I don't see much that's really special about him. He's not a YAC guy and I'm not sold on his ability to separate against pro corners.
I'm down on Fuller as well. One trick pony deep threat with a light frame and spotty hands. An optimistic comparison would be T.Y. Hilton, but I think he was simply overdrafted because Houston valued his deep presence. It's usually folly to go against draft position and he may end up being good, but I'm not a buyer. He's in the 5-12 range for me in this class, and I don't expect to end up with him in any leagues.
ZWK
Footballguy
7 picks in the first round, with another WR in between, is not tiny. It's not a huge edge but it is a pretty clear point in Coleman's favor when I had the two players close pre-draft.
Also, Coleman did really well by the metrics that I looked at (generally better than Doctson). The big question was whether his stats were inflated by that Baylor offense, in a way that made the metrics misleading. Predraft, that was enough for me to have him slightly behind Doctson. Post-draft, I can see that an NFL team with its scouting department poring over the tape also liked (and selected) Coleman as the top WR in the draft. That answers the question about Coleman well enough for me to put him back on top.
Borden
Footballguy
It this is how we are evaluating then Treadwell had the worst production last year and is way too slow.
I don't believe this. It's just to point out how silly this is getting. You're better than this spider.
spider321
Footballguy
lol. It was just retaliation for "the Browns like Coleman more, so he must be better".
The BROWNS?!?! The Cleveland Browns?!?! Really?
ROTFLMAO.
...but I really will take the guy that produced in a NFL style offense over the 2 that played in a video game offense.
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