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Torry Holt's luck runs out (1 Viewer)

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Bristol

Footballguy
The Torry Holt that you have all grown to love over the past 3 to 4 weeks will disappear starting this week. With the return of Marshall Faulk, all of the TD's and yardage that he has been getting recently will vanish in the blink of an eye and he will return to the Torry Holt of old.Hope everyone was able to dump him off the past couple of weeks. If not, this upcoming week, may be your last chance to get some big names for him.Marshall is the centerpiece of the Rams team and will command both the yardage and TD's when he returns. It doesn't look good for Holt owners!!

 

Loomba

Footballguy
I didn't think Marshall was starting this week. But I agree, with Faulk returning (and presumably returning healthy), he becomes the focal point and Holt's opportunities will decrease. However, Bulger and Holt have developed such a good rapport, Holt should still be a solid WR even with Faulk back.This is in contrast to previous seasons where Faulk's presence prevented Holt from developing a strong bond with his QB. That offence should be more balanced now than in the Faulk-on-every-play era. Look out. Rams will contend in postseason.

 

JohnnyTitan

Footballguy
That's preposterous!!First off, Marshall isn't even going to play a major roll this week. So dump that theory this week.Secondly, even whem Faulk does return, I don't think he'll be eating into Holt's longer scores. (Has TDs of 37,21,39, and 36 yards this year)So perhaps some of Torry's shorter TDs (11, 7, 14, 9) are up for grabs, but let's face it...nobody expects him to exactly duplicate his amazing first half.Fact is, the Rams will continue to throw the ball with or without Faulk and Holt has proven to be Bulger's favourite target. Few receivers in the league give you the week-in, week-out stability of a Torry Holt. Even TO and Moss pitch a stinker once in a while. I'd compare Holt only to Harrision in terms of consistency.So while Holt's value might be at its very highest right now, to think he'll fall out of the Top 5 WRs is rediculous. Count on him for rock-solid production over the final 9 weeks.

 

Legion of Doom

Footballguy
You could be right.I thought he would be pretty good this season just not this good. :bag: I'm in Loombas camp,Faulk or no Faulk Holt will remain a very solid option.

 

JohnnyTitan

Footballguy
By The Way: "The Torry of Old"2000 - 1635 yds, 6 TDs2001 - 1363 yds, 7 TDs2002 - 1302 yds, 4 TDs<sarcasm> Ya, it'd be a shame if he fell back to that kind of production the second half. </sarcasm>He'll get his yards and his TDs.

 

Tiger Fan

Footballguy
Holt doesn't score that many redzone TD's. He'll be fine. Production might slip a little, but he'll be fine.

 

Bristol

Footballguy
I think it is wishful thinking on most of your parts. Faulk always has and will continue to be the focal point of that offense. It really doesn't matter what rapport Holt has with Bulger at this point. Martz will go back to Faulk over and over again.Why do you think that Torry Holt was only a yardage WR up until this year? It's because the TD's are reserved for Marshall.By not looking at the big picture, you are depriving yourself of an opportunity to trade away a high value guy while he still has high value. It's nice to hope that he will maintain his pace and continue to score at will, but in reality, after this week, those days are gone. Sure, it was nice while it lasted, but let's look at things logically.Welcome back Torry Holt 5 receptions for 80 and 0 TD's!!!

 

Vicktimized

Footballguy
I'm starting to think the Faulk of old is gone, and we're left with Old Faulk.He's been banged up severly since the middle of last year and averaged about 3 yards a carry earlier this season.Maybe a big comeback's in the works, but I get a severe Terrell Davis vibe from him....

 

imeimex

Footballguy
Bristol perhaps it is wishful thinking for you to think that Faulk will be back to his oldself. I drafted him 7th overall in one league after his great Monday night pre-season game, but even before his injury he was far from impressive this year. I really hope that he comes back to his old self but honestly I think Gordon and Harris are more productive on the ground than Faulk will be, but I do expect him to add his 40-50 yards recieving. Holts touchdowns will probably go down a bit because I can't see him keeping his current pace but Holt will continue to be a top 5 WR.

 

smlevin

Footballguy
By The Way: "The Torry of Old"2000 - 1635 yds, 6 TDs2001 - 1363 yds, 7 TDs2002 - 1302 yds, 4 TDs<sarcasm> Ya, it'd be a shame if he fell back to that kind of production the second half. </sarcasm>He'll get his yards and his TDs.
This is why I had him ranked as the #5 WR. I went into this year with a bit of a different WR board than most. Mine (in order) went: Moss, Harrison, TO, Horn, Holt, Moulds, Plex, Ward, CJon, Toomer - Boston and Driver rounded out my personal top-12, but I was sold on getting at least one and hopefully two of the guys in my top-10.Holt's yardage has never been a problem, and, while Ike and Marshal were still peaking, his TD numbers stayed sort of low (though 6 or 7 TDs from a WR is still decent when combined with steady yardage production). He had top-10 finishes every year except last year when, in an unusual 4 TD year, he still finished in the top-20. I saw a virtually guaranted top-10 finish again if Holt hit his 6 TD average. And I saw the realistic possibility that he would reach 8-10 TDs with a Rams revival. Well, the Rams revived, he already has 8 TDs and his yardage is exactly where I thought it would be, or a little better.Surprise - he is a top-5 WR. Even if he slows down to a TD every other game, he will likely maintain his yardage numbers. Even with Faulk's return, the Rams are a passing team. If anything, because the safeties will have to worry about Marshall underneath, Holt should be open even more often downfield.Going forward, I would expect there will be at least one more multiple TD game from Holt, there will be little to no drop-off in his yardage numbers, and if you are in a start 3 WR, or pt/rec., league, he is among 2 or 3 untradable WRs going forward. It realy is time now for folks to let go of preconceived notions. One notion to get rid of is that Torry Holt can't find the end zone. Another is that he will have a "return to norm" or that Ike will suddenly spike and eat into Holt's production. This is a Bulger to Holt team now, and Marshal's return will simply make them more dangerous - it will not hurt Holt's numbers any more than Edge's return would hurt Harrison's numbers.
 

smlevin

Footballguy
Holt doesn't score that many redzone TD's. He'll be fine. Production might slip a little, but he'll be fine.
As Johnny Titan posted above:"So perhaps some of Torry's shorter TDs (11, 7, 14, 9) are up for grabs"That looks like half of Torry's TDs are in the red zone, so the thought above is simply wrong.
 

Warehouse Nasty

Footballguy
It really doesn't matter what rapport Holt has with Bulger at this point. Martz will go back to Faulk over and over again.
Yeah, Martz sure used Marshall quite a bit when he was healthy earlier in the year... :rolleyes:
 

Raiders Fan

The Black Hole
Faulk returning will be short lived. He is starting to be prone... I really think if your a Faulk owner you need to handcuff yourself to Harris for the rest of the year..

 

smlevin

Footballguy
I think it is wishful thinking on most of your parts. Faulk always has and will continue to be the focal point of that offense.
This is the "wishful" thinking. There is no basis to believe that Faulk will continue to be the focus of the offense when the offense has been clicking, and the team winning games, since the focus has been on Bulger to Holt.Bulger to Holt is what works and what wins games - the addition of Faulk will be a bonus. I don't know if you noticed, but in the Atlanta game, late in the fourth of a blowout, Martz coninued to play Holt and continued to test the secondary downfield. He had 174 yards last week while Martz gave Harris 30+ carries. Exactly what indication do you have that Holt will be used any less as the season draws on or as Faulk returns? I'll answer for you - you have none.
 

buck naked

Footballguy
Bristol - your initial analysis and information is really interesting and a good point for discussion.Smelvin - your points are excellent.I'm in the Smelvin camp, and I had the exact same thoughts about Holt going into the season. If someone, year after year, catches 90 balls and has alot of yards, a year will come when he has at least 12 tds (unless your named Keyshawn and have no speed). A year of 4 tds in that offense is an aberration. THIS year might also be an aberration for Holt, so enjoy the ride. I do not see his production going down, because if you see the games, they have reduced the number of balls spread around and increased Holt's looks over Bruce's. Bulger is on fire, and will look for Holt.

 

smlevin

Footballguy
Faulk returning will be short lived. He is starting to be prone... I really think if your a Faulk owner you need to handcuff yourself to Harris for the rest of the year..
More bad assumptions in this thread than I've ever seen on the board - must be a form of mad cow disease called Ram Fever. I believe Gordon is still Faulk's backup and, once healthy, Gordon is still the proper handcuff to Faulk. Either way, if Faulk goes down, Harris' best world is in a RBBC with Gordon. They bring different skills to the table - Harris is a speedy pass catcher who, like Barry Sanders or Kevin Faulk, is often caught behind the LOS. Gordon is more of a north-south runner who rarely loses ground and has a significantly better YPC average. If MFaulk is lost for the year, a combination of the two will probably be used with Gordon as the starter and the primary runner and Harris as the pass-catching back.
 

Thursday

Footballguy
I have to tack on to this thread.

With the return of Marshall, I think you will see a "slight" dip in Holt's numbers but not much. In regards to smelvin's earlier post, I had Holt ranked #5 overall as well. I have noticed several things in the rams offense this year.

Bulger and Holt have developed great rapport. Last year when Bulger took over, I believe Holt started getting a lot more attention. I would have to double check my facts to be sure, but I believe this to be the case.

Gordon/Harris have done a superb job in filling in for Faulk. The rams game plan did not change that much. You still have Bruce/Holt stretching the field and some up the gut running that has proven to be effective because of the WR threat.
Because of the running threat, the WR fade TD catch in the redzone has been a viable option which has proven successful in the rams offense.
The rams "have" been effective with the running and passing combination they have established.... Why should they change it when they are winning games?In all honesty, maybe Faulk will get more attention, maybe not. All I know is that the rams gameplan has been effective and they are winning games. I don't see Martz changing the system when it has proven to be so effective. I foresee Marshall stepping back in and doing his thing, but Holt is going to continue to be a factor the rest of the year.

As for Gordon or Harris... I think Harris has surprised us all, but then again he was an unsigned free agent rookie who joined the rams. That speaks volumes for the offensive system. I CAN see him supplanting Gordon if he stays durable, but for the most part he is still an unknown in the durability scale until he has played several weeks in the system.

My Words of Wisdom...

The Saint

 

Sinrman

Footballguy
LOL I love it when people set themselves up to get sandblasted for saying such bold (yet dumb) predictions...1) Faulk won't play much this week -- I believe it's been well chronicled that Harris will be playing a majority of the game2) Holt has finally pulled ahead of Bruce in what used to be a neck-and-neck race3) Bulger and Holt seem to really click -- Bulger has very high regard for Holt and his ability4) Faulk would have to remain healthy to be the "focal point" of the offense

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
The Torry Holt that you have all grown to love over the past 3 to 4 weeks will disappear starting this week. With the return of Marshall Faulk, all of the TD's and yardage that he has been getting recently will vanish in the blink of an eye and he will return to the Torry Holt of old.Hope everyone was able to dump him off the past couple of weeks. If not, this upcoming week, may be your last chance to get some big names for him.Marshall is the centerpiece of the Rams team and will command both the yardage and TD's when he returns. It doesn't look good for Holt owners!!
A poor Marshall owner hoping that Faulk will save his season....Wasted a 1st rounder for him? Do you seriously believe that Faulk will fall right back into getting 22-28 points a game? His days of 90 rushing, 60 receiving and 2 TD's are long gone....Sorry bro, but Marshall is done as disco.....Is it me or whenever an aging player decides to bulk up in the offseason to be able to handle more hits, he is pretty much done...as a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure Warner bulked up too, something like 12 pounds in the offseason....The running game in St. Louis is a mess. You need 2 sets of handcuffs for this crew...The Warner/Faulk era in St. Louis is over....BTW, I live in St. Louis....Good luck
 

smlevin

Footballguy
Do you seriously believe that Faulk will fall right back into getting 22-28 points a game? His days of 90 rushing, 60 receiving and 2 TD's are long gone....Sorry bro, but Marshall is done as disco.....Is it me or whenever an aging player decides to bulk up in the offseason to be able to handle more hits, he is pretty much done...as a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure Warner bulked up too, something like 12 pounds in the offseason....The running game in St. Louis is a mess. You need 2 sets of handcuffs for this crew...
MORE bad assumptions in this thread. What is with the assumptions, people?1) yes, with this EOY schedule, deja-Faulk could easily happen: @Chi @Ari Min @Cle Sea Cin @Det Considering the Gordon/Harris combo manages 120 or so combined yardage and a TD or two each week, why not Faulk versus such easy opposition? I don't know if he will or won't, but there is no reason to make the bad assumption that he for sure won't or that he is "done."2) Piling on weight - Faulk put on muscle weight, Bulger decided to eat hamburgers figuring the added weight around the middle would help him. Apples and oranges - another bad assumption.3) Running game a mess? Bad assumption either way this is counted: a) that they are having problems in the running game. The team is def. not having problems running the ball or getting stats to their RBs. b) they use a RBBC - only injury has created that. It is a bad assumption that they go RBBC. StLou is comfortable fielding a feature back and if Marshal is healthy, he's that guy - see Martz' "stunt men" comment this past week.
 

Zman800

Footballguy
I think it is wishful thinking on most of your parts. Faulk always has and will continue to be the focal point of that offense. It really doesn't matter what rapport Holt has with Bulger at this point. Martz will go back to Faulk over and over again.Why do you think that Torry Holt was only a yardage WR up until this year? It's because the TD's are reserved for Marshall.By not looking at the big picture, you are depriving yourself of an opportunity to trade away a high value guy while he still has high value. It's nice to hope that he will maintain his pace and continue to score at will, but in reality, after this week, those days are gone. Sure, it was nice while it lasted, but let's look at things logically.Welcome back Torry Holt 5 receptions for 80 and 0 TD's!!!
You know its statements like this with no facts to back it up that make this board frustrating at times. Well here are the facts with Bulger as QB.9/14 Faulk Rec - 4/33 yds 0 TD's, Gordon - 3/26 yds 0 TD's, Holt - 6 / 64 yds 1 TD, Rushing totals 24/88 yds 1 TD 9/21 Faulk Out, Gordon Rec - 4/25 yds 0 TD's, Holt - 5 / 68 yds 0 TD's (No Faulk and Holt's yds are down hmm) Rushing - 23/72 yds 0 TD's9/28 Faulk Out, Gordon Rec - 4/26 yds 0 TD's, Holt - 12/133 yds 1 TD, Rushing - 33/128 yds 1 TD10/13 Faulk Out, Harris Rec - 1/26 yds 0 TD's, Holt - 11 / 161 yds 2 TD's, Rushing 29/115 0 TD's10/19 Faulk Out, Harris Rec - 2/20 yds 0 TD's, Holt - 4 / 67 yds 2 TD's, Rushing - 22/105 yds 1 TD 10/26 Faulk Out, Harris Rec - 4/15 yds 0 TD's, Holt - 7/174 yds 1 TD, Rushing - 34/81 yds 3 TD'sSo 9/14 with Faulk in a good part of the game Holt gets 64 but still has a TD with Bulger.9/21 WITHOUT FAULK at all Holt gets only 68 and no TD's with Bulger.Then the next 4 weeks Holt becomes top 3 receiver material.The only negative I can draw from these facts are that the week Faulk was in with Bulger there was a total of 7 passes to the RB compared to an average without Faulk of 3 per game. I doubt this will seriously erode Holts numbers seeing how he is Bulgers go to WR.Plus this being Faulks 1st week back do you really expect Faulk to get 20 touches rushing or even up to 7 catches when Martz has already stated Harris will start and he will play Faulk and see how his body reacts ?Have you watched Bulger play ? He looks down the field 1st then goes RB in progression. Is Faulks return going to make Bruce and Holt get open any less than they have ? No. Martz may call more RB pass catching plays IF Faulk is good to go. But why would he change what is working for wins ?Owning Faulk and not Holt I'd love to see Faulk back and producing like Harris has the last two weeks or better. But you cannot ignore the facts. Holt is Bulgers go to receiver and Faulk coming back WILL NOT significantly erode his numbers.
 
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Captain Blowhard

Footballguy
Holt's always piled up the yardage. With Faulk. Without Faulk. This "grunt" for a reply is all you deserve, as you've obvioulsy been too lazy to look up stats before you posted.

 

Bristol

Footballguy
Holt's always piled up the yardage. With Faulk. Without Faulk. This "grunt" for a reply is all you deserve, as you've obvioulsy been too lazy to look up stats before you posted.
Never said that he didn't put up yardage, Captain. Why don't you read the posts I made before you comment.The TD's are the thing that have made Holt a special player for the past 3 to 4 weeks. He has NEVER been a big TD scorer mainly because Faulk got the bulk of them. With a player like Faulk coming back, over the hill or not, he will command the ball and looks that in the past few weeks went Holt's way. He will also command the TD's. All of these factors spell doom for Holt.Last time I checked, 1300 yards for a season equalled an average of 81 YPG. That's right on line with Holt's production in previous years WITH FAULK.
 

Bristol

Footballguy
Here's some FACTS (all data is from week 1 last year to present):Holt stats with Faulk in lineup (average):5.8 receptions83 YPG6 Total Td'sHolt's stats WITHOUT Faulk in lineup (average):8.5 receptions134 YPG6 Total TD'sWether you want to believe it or not, Faulk makes a difference!!

 

Zman800

Footballguy
Here's some FACTS (all data is from week 1 last year to present):Holt stats with Faulk in lineup (average):5.8 receptions83 YPG6 Total Td'sHolt's stats WITHOUT Faulk in lineup (average):8.5 receptions134 YPG6 Total TD'sWether you want to believe it or not, Faulk makes a difference!!
Bristol - I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one as neither one of us is going to convince the other here. This week with Faulk limited Holt will do his average which is 10.9 targets per game and he catches for this year 68.4% of the passes targeted which equals 7.4 catches per game with an average of 14.9 yds per catch. 110.3 yds per game average for this year.This week over 100 receiving with 1 TD.Next week even if Faulk gets most of the workload he will not eat into the yards of the improved 03 version of Holt. Again Bulger looks downfield 1st. Whenever Faulk resumes shouldering most of the load we will see who is right.
 

Captain Blowhard

Footballguy
Here's some FACTS (all data is from week 1 last year to present):Holt stats with Faulk in lineup (average):5.8 receptions83 YPG6 Total Td'sHolt's stats WITHOUT Faulk in lineup (average):8.5 receptions134 YPG6 Total TD'sWether you want to believe it or not, Faulk makes a difference!!
Holt had over 3000 yards in the two-year period when faulk was in his prime. And for the record: the stats you give here (which are from a selective period) certainly aren't cause to "dump him off" as you suggest in your initial post here.
 

Bristol

Footballguy
Here's some FACTS (all data is from week 1 last year to present):Holt stats with Faulk in lineup (average):5.8 receptions83 YPG6 Total Td'sHolt's stats WITHOUT Faulk in lineup (average):8.5 receptions134 YPG6 Total TD'sWether you want to believe it or not, Faulk makes a difference!!
Bristol - I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one as neither one of us is going to convince the other here. This week with Faulk limited Holt will do his average which is 10.9 targets per game and he catches for this year 68.4% of the passes targeted which equals 7.4 catches per game with an average of 14.9 yds per catch. 110.3 yds per game average for this year.This week over 100 receiving with 1 TD.Next week even if Faulk gets most of the workload he will not eat into the yards of the improved 03 version of Holt. Again Bulger looks downfield 1st. Whenever Faulk resumes shouldering most of the load we will see who is right.
Right on!!! :thumbup:Although I am not sure of your accessment of this week's game. 49ers held him in check last time they met in St Louis. This time the Rams have to play outside in San Francisco.I think that the 49ers will beat the Rams tomorrow. Just a feeling I have with the game being outside and the fact that it's St. Louis' second road game in a row. And if that happens, I don't see any of the Rams producing well.I will call it my upset special of the week.
 

Bristol

Footballguy
Here's some FACTS (all data is from week 1 last year to present):Holt stats with Faulk in lineup (average):5.8 receptions83 YPG6 Total Td'sHolt's stats WITHOUT Faulk in lineup (average):8.5 receptions134 YPG6 Total TD'sWether you want to believe it or not, Faulk makes a difference!!
Holt had over 3000 yards in the two-year period when faulk was in his prime. And for the record: the stats you give here (which are from a selective period) certainly aren't cause to "dump him off" as you suggest in your initial post here.
Last year people crucified Holt because he didn't score any TD's and all he got was yardage. The yardage is not the issue. I agree that he has always gotten yardage. Not many WR can average 80 YPG. The aberration is the TD's. That is what has made him special the past few weeks. Although he has had some monster games yardage wise in that span as well, I cannot see it continuing with the addition of Faulk in the lineup. I look for the TD's to take a serious hit and for his yardage to fall back to the levels of 80 YPG.It is time to dump him off. You could get a mint for him right now based off of the numbers he has put up recently. You won't get the same value a couple of weeks from now. It's the SELL HIGH theory. He is at his highest RIGHT NOW!!! Sell while you can get great players fro him.
 

Bristol

Footballguy
Here's some FACTS (all data is from week 1 last year to present):Holt stats with Faulk in lineup (average):5.8 receptions83 YPG6 Total Td'sHolt's stats WITHOUT Faulk in lineup (average):8.5 receptions134 YPG6 Total TD'sWether you want to believe it or not, Faulk makes a difference!!
Holt had over 3000 yards in the two-year period when faulk was in his prime. And for the record: the stats you give here (which are from a selective period) certainly aren't cause to "dump him off" as you suggest in your initial post here.
I forgot to add one MAJOR stat to this also which would prove my point even more:Since week 1 of last year to present:Games played with Faulk: 17Games played without Faulk: 6Now do the math on the stats that I presented. The TD's take a MAJOR hit, don't they?
 

Boltman

Footballguy
Here are Holts fantasy points per game so far this year in my league:17, 12, 6, 19, 28, 18, 23 (1 pt per 10yds/ 6pts per td)I better dump him quick before he goes into another 17, 12, 6, slump again like when Faulk was in the lineup. Maybe I will hold on to him for weeks 10-15 when Faulk is injured again.

 

Zman800

Footballguy
Here's some FACTS (all data is from week 1 last year to present):Holt stats with Faulk in lineup (average):5.8 receptions83 YPG6 Total Td'sHolt's stats WITHOUT Faulk in lineup (average):8.5 receptions134 YPG6 Total TD'sWether you want to believe it or not, Faulk makes a difference!!
Bristol - I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one as neither one of us is going to convince the other here. This week with Faulk limited Holt will do his average which is 10.9 targets per game and he catches for this year 68.4% of the passes targeted which equals 7.4 catches per game with an average of 14.9 yds per catch. 110.3 yds per game average for this year.This week over 100 receiving with 1 TD.Next week even if Faulk gets most of the workload he will not eat into the yards of the improved 03 version of Holt. Again Bulger looks downfield 1st. Whenever Faulk resumes shouldering most of the load we will see who is right.
Right on!!! :thumbup:Although I am not sure of your accessment of this week's game. 49ers held him in check last time they met in St Louis. This time the Rams have to play outside in San Francisco.I think that the 49ers will beat the Rams tomorrow. Just a feeling I have with the game being outside and the fact that it's St. Louis' second road game in a row. And if that happens, I don't see any of the Rams producing well.I will call it my upset special of the week.
Yes I see your point but last week in PIT on the grass outside in rainy weather we know both what Holt and Bulger did and I'm making this assessment based on SF missing a CB, safety, and more importantly their speed rusher Andre Carter is out.I remember the 1st game SF causing havoc with their zone blitz sacking Bulger. Until the Rams went to max protect passing.With the Niners injuries and the Rams O line jelling playing together more I'm thinking it's a Rams win and Holt and Bulger have good days. But I've been wrong before.
 

chinawildman

Footballguy
I think using old stats from previous seasons to forecast holt's production is inaccurate. The more rams games I watch, it seems that holt is now running alot of bruce's old routes and I think that's where the TD production is coming from. Most of holt's TDs in the old days came from corner routes and deep posts. Now it seems he is more of a target in the redzone. (w or w/o the presence of an effective RB) Add to that the lack of the gimmicky redzone plays to the tight end and fullbacks that were prevalent back in the Warner days, and it all adds up to more TDs for the wide receivers. Holt may not keep up the TD production, but it will be because Bruce will get his sooner or later, not because of a Faulk revival.

 

cgh3rd

Footballguy
Bristol, I have to admit to you a fine job of stirring the pot. The funny thing is that you seem to always be following the conventional wisdom of years gone by. The Rams offense is completely different than in previous years. Holt is now the main man. It remains to be seen if Marshal is at the same level as in previous years. Your implication that Holt's targets will decrease because Faulk is back is flawed. The difference this year is that Bruce is not getting the calls they are going Torry's way. Personally, I think you are just playing the odds. Holt has been on fire and you put this out there trying to look like some sort of genius if he comes up short. Faulks touches will be limited this week so it will have nothing to do with his return. It's all about the game planning.

 

Sinrman

Footballguy
Here's some FACTS (all data is from week 1 last year to present):Holt stats with Faulk in lineup (average):5.8 receptions83 YPG6 Total Td'sHolt's stats WITHOUT Faulk in lineup (average):8.5 receptions134 YPG6 Total TD'sWether you want to believe it or not, Faulk makes a difference!!
Going back to last year and using those averages to back up your claim, is mindboggling. Last year's Rams and this year's Rams are MUCH different. The players for the most part are the same, but the attitude and the firepower is what it was from '99-'01, not '02. Yes, Faulk does get more receiving yards and looks than your average back, but this is a different looking Rams team, and Faulk is becoming more and more injury prone. He's on his last legs as a football player. Holt may not be able to keep up quite the pace he is on, but he will still maintain a nice, healthy one and should end up better than previous years. You just canNOT ignore the second half of the Ram's season. He should feast on several of those defenses...And I say this, being a Faulk AND Holt owner in my main league...
 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
Do you seriously believe that Faulk will fall right back into getting 22-28 points a game?  His days of 90 rushing, 60 receiving and 2 TD's are long gone....

Sorry bro, but Marshall is done as disco.....Is it me or whenever an aging player decides to bulk up in the offseason to be able to handle more hits, he is pretty much done...as a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure Warner bulked up too, something like 12 pounds in the offseason....

The running game in St. Louis is a mess.  You need 2 sets of handcuffs for this crew...
MORE bad assumptions in this thread. What is with the assumptions, people?1) yes, with this EOY schedule, deja-Faulk could easily happen: @Chi @Ari Min @Cle Sea Cin @Det Considering the Gordon/Harris combo manages 120 or so combined yardage and a TD or two each week, why not Faulk versus such easy opposition? I don't know if he will or won't, but there is no reason to make the bad assumption that he for sure won't or that he is "done."

2) Piling on weight - Faulk put on muscle weight, Bulger decided to eat hamburgers figuring the added weight around the middle would help him. Apples and oranges - another bad assumption.

3) Running game a mess? Bad assumption either way this is counted: a) that they are having problems in the running game. The team is def. not having problems running the ball or getting stats to their RBs. b) they use a RBBC - only injury has created that. It is a bad assumption that they go RBBC. StLou is comfortable fielding a feature back and if Marshal is healthy, he's that guy - see Martz' "stunt men" comment this past week.
1) yep, the Rams have a cake schedule down the stretch...Too bad Marshall will be watching other Rams RBs carving up those weak teams from the sideline...2) Uhhh, I never mentioned Bulger putting on weight...I did mention Warner putting on weight. Warner claims to have put on 12 pounds of muscle in the offseason. How do I know this? Because he said so on News Channel 5 where he is paid as a commentator every Monday night if the Rams are not playing.....I'm giving insider/local info and you are giving supposition. where do you get this cheeseburger crap? And it really is apples and oranges when you can't get the names straight....

3) yes, the running game in St. Louis is a mess, in terms of Fantasy Production.....Fantasy god Faulk can't stay healthy. Gordon can't stay healthy either. HArris can't hold onto the ball. Faulk is back, but the 2003 version of Faulk sucks. He is going to split time with slippery hands Harris. So, yes it is a mess.....

But if you think Faulk is going to return to form then maybe you should pass the bong, get some munchies, crash out, and then wake up with a fresh perspective in the morning....Good luck with your season, I'm guessing you're not doing so well with that wasted first round pick on Marshall Faulk....

 

RandleEl82

Footballguy
Bottom Line-This is a different Rams offense than before. You are seeing alot more max protection with only 3 receivers running routes, whereas in the past there were more 5 receiver sets. Holt and Bruce and seeing a higher percentage of Bulger's throws than in the old Warner days. Back then they had to fight with az hakim, proehl, faulk when he was good, etc... Holt is in the prime of his career and is Bulger's favorite receiver. Bruce is on the downside although he can still play. Faulk is on his last legs. And Bulger is getting better every game.I'm holding on to Holt.

 

Bristol

Footballguy
I guess we will all have to see how this plays out.He's another nugget of information that Holt/Bulger owners can chew on. Before the season, Peter King from Sports Illustrated reported that the Rams officials have SERIOUS concerns about Bulger finishing a complete season due to back problems. I know that the fears have not gone away, but have been kept quiet. If what the King said is true, it is just another reason to dump Holt while you still can.

 

matrix9280

Footballguy
He's another nugget of information that Holt/Bulger owners can chew on. Before the season, Peter King from Sports Illustrated reported that the Rams officials have SERIOUS concerns about Bulger finishing a complete season due to back problems. I know that the fears have not gone away, but have been kept quiet. If what the King said is true, it is just another reason to dump Holt while you still can.
Do you have a link to this information? I would like to read more about this.
 

Bristol

Footballguy
Bristol, I have to admit to you a fine job of stirring the pot. The funny thing is that you seem to always be following the conventional wisdom of years gone by. The Rams offense is completely different than in previous years. Holt is now the main man. It remains to be seen if Marshal is at the same level as in previous years. Your implication that Holt's targets will decrease because Faulk is back is flawed. The difference this year is that Bruce is not getting the calls they are going Torry's way. Personally, I think you are just playing the odds. Holt has been on fire and you put this out there trying to look like some sort of genius if he comes up short. Faulks touches will be limited this week so it will have nothing to do with his return. It's all about the game planning.
If you have followed my posts, then you can clearly see that I don't buy into HYPE. And, yes, my views do "stir the pot" because I don't like to bite on players who come out of nowhere and start putting up monster numbers (Davis, Bouldin) or who people hype up as the next best thing (Lelie). I do not think that I am following "conventional wisdom of years gone by". If you want to look seriously at a player you cannot go back much further than last year (which I did). Since 1999, the Rams offense has not changed. The players may have changed, but the offense has remained the same. Holt has had the opportunity to jump to the forefront because of Faulk's injury. This is still Faulk's team.
 

Raiders Fan

The Black Hole
Bristol, I have to admit to you a fine job of stirring the pot. The funny thing is that you seem to always be following the conventional wisdom of years gone by. The Rams offense is completely different than in previous years. Holt is now the main man. It remains to be seen if Marshal is at the same level as in previous years. Your implication that Holt's targets will decrease because Faulk is back is flawed. The difference this year is that Bruce is not getting the calls they are going Torry's way. Personally, I think you are just playing the odds. Holt has been on fire and you put this out there trying to look like some sort of genius if he comes up short. Faulks touches will be limited this week so it will have nothing to do with his return. It's all about the game planning.
If you have followed my posts, then you can clearly see that I don't buy into HYPE. And, yes, my views do "stir the pot" because I don't like to bite on players who come out of nowhere and start putting up monster numbers (Davis, Bouldin) or who people hype up as the next best thing (Lelie). I do not think that I am following "conventional wisdom of years gone by". If you want to look seriously at a player you cannot go back much further than last year (which I did). Since 1999, the Rams offense has not changed. The players may have changed, but the offense has remained the same. Holt has had the opportunity to jump to the forefront because of Faulk's injury. This is still Faulk's team.
USED to be Faulk's team.. Facts are he isn't as effective.. It's looking like Bulger's team now. Stop living in what once was. Faulk hasn't looked good since Week 9 last year and his YPC are below avg. Good luck with Faulk but his dominating the league is LONG gone. He no longer is a 1st or 2nd round pick. Throw him in the George/Martin area now..
 

Green and Gold

Footballguy
In the only game Warner played this year, Holt had 111 yards and a TD. I suppose Holt owners would be OK settling for that 'drop' in production if Warner comes in.GG

 

smlevin

Footballguy
2) Uhhh, I never mentioned Bulger putting on weight...I did mention Warner putting on weight. Warner claims to have put on 12 pounds of muscle in the offseason. How do I know this? Because he said so on News Channel 5 where he is paid as a commentator every Monday night if the Rams are not playing.....I'm giving insider/local info and you are giving supposition. where do you get this cheeseburger crap? And it really is apples and oranges when you can't get the names straight....
My bad - I meant Warner. And yes, it is apples oranges b/c Faulk added muscle weight and Warner added weight "around his middle" so he could endure more sacks. And he did NOT say he put on 12 pounds of MUSCLE it was 12 pounds of weight around the middle. Apples and oranges comparison, for sure. You'll find citation in this thread:

Warner's Weight

Here's the quote:

"It seems like it's been two years since I've played," Warner said after Friday's morning session. "Physically I felt good. My arm feels great. My arm feels better than it has in a long time. My hand feels awesome. No physical problems."

He followed his normal offseason routine. The only difference from a year ago is his weight; he is up to 216 pounds after he decided to regain some cushion. He no longer hides from junk food and he's not averse to slamming down a late-night snack.

Yeah, sounds like he added a ton of muscle with that late night junk food. There's a link to the article, but it is so old that it seems to be a dead link. I won't respond to any of your personal attacks because I choose facts, backed up by facts.

Your other two responses were based on assumptions that Faulk would be injured, so they are as untenable as the rest of your post. Like I said, my mistake on the names.

 

cgh3rd

Footballguy
Bristol, I have to admit to you a fine job of stirring the pot. The funny thing is that you seem to always be following the conventional wisdom of years gone by. The Rams offense is completely different than in previous years. Holt is now the main man. It remains to be seen if Marshal is at the same level as in previous years. Your implication that Holt's targets will decrease because Faulk is back is flawed. The difference this year is that Bruce is not getting the calls they are going Torry's way. Personally, I think you are just playing the odds. Holt has been on fire and you put this out there trying to look like some sort of genius if he comes up short. Faulks touches will be limited this week so it will have nothing to do with his return. It's all about the game planning.
If you have followed my posts, then you can clearly see that I don't buy into HYPE. And, yes, my views do "stir the pot" because I don't like to bite on players who come out of nowhere and start putting up monster numbers (Davis, Bouldin) or who people hype up as the next best thing (Lelie). I do not think that I am following "conventional wisdom of years gone by". If you want to look seriously at a player you cannot go back much further than last year (which I did). Since 1999, the Rams offense has not changed. The players may have changed, but the offense has remained the same. Holt has had the opportunity to jump to the forefront because of Faulk's injury. This is still Faulk's team.
Hey Bristol, I respect your use of stats to back up what you have to say but the fact is that the Rams offense is different. Martz is using max protection packages much more than he used to. The offense is more ball control instead of big play oriented. They have had some very ugly wins where the defense stepped up. I go to the games, I see the Greatest Show on Turf and Max Q are dead and frankly I'm happy. The Rams play a much tougher/clock eating brand of winning football than they did before. It is a very young team who has not had a truly solid, speedy 3rd WR since Hakim left. That is still the case. Looker plays more of a 4th WR role like Proehl used to. He just seems to make big, timely catches. The Rams don't have the personnel they used to so Martz has adapted. The guy has made some mistakes over the year but he can flat out coach and this season is proving it. As for the Bulger injury probability...sure everyone knows about that stuff. We are half way into the season and he still going. Anyone can get hurt at any time. Your point is moot and once again dated. ;) :P BTW, Torry is not hyped. He is putting up the numbers right now and has been all season. He is not even in the same class as as the other guys your mentioned.
 
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