What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Tracking the 2013-2014 Peyton Manning collapse (1 Viewer)

shader

Footballguy
Peyton Manning has been known for some of the most epic choke-jobs in NFL history, and he's set to finish his career with perhaps the finest of all-time.

There simply is no one better at carving up bad teams, as Peyton has demonstrated throughout his career, and most notably this year.

5-0 and a historic rate of scoring are setting us up for an epic post-season. The defense isn't all that great, the running game is terrible, and basically...we've been here before. Probably ten times.

Contenders for Peyton's demise:

1. Seattle -- This is the most likely scenario. Peyton playing outside in New Jersey, in February against an unbelievable defense.

2. SF -- Same story, different team

3. KC -- It's un-likely that KC is "for real" enough to hold off Peyton in the playoffs. That being said, this team will get the opportunity to play him twice in the regular season...

4. Cincinnati -- Dalton vs Manning is no contest. But Cincy's defense is legit, and if their offense can come together, they could get it done.

5. New England -- Right now...Manning wins by 40. By the post-season? We've already seen some of Brady's new weapons get better as the year has gone on. The return of a healthy Amendola, Gronkowski and Vereen should greatly bolster this young group of wide-outs that are getting a trial by fire. Aaron Dobson stinks right now as a primary or secondary option. But as that 5th option that sneaks open downfield? I like it. Plus, the Pats have a legit shutdown cornerback in Talib. Yeah, they lost big Vince, but Denver can't run anyway.

 

bigums

Footballguy
I think you're probably on track, but keep in mind that D is playing without arguably their 2 best players. I think Von and Champ added back in change things a bit.

 

MoveToSkypager

Footballguy
What's the prediction here? I don't think Manning will die, but I think he'll lose a game or 2. Either way, he has a better shot at making the HOF than Ingram or Richardson. I will predict that the meaning of shutdown cornerback will lose it's meaning in -2 posts.

 

SacramentoBob

Footballguy
The defense isn't all that great, the running game is terrible, and basically...we've been here before. Probably ten times.
I guess I find this the weird thing. You admit the running game is terrible and the defense isn't that good. So basically Peyton has to be near perfect every time for this team to be a contender, and if/when he fails at that, it's because he's a choker.

 

shader

Footballguy
The defense isn't all that great, the running game is terrible, and basically...we've been here before. Probably ten times.
I guess I find this the weird thing. You admit the running game is terrible and the defense isn't that good. So basically Peyton has to be near perfect every time for this team to be a contender, and if/when he fails at that, it's because he's a choker.
He's been choking for 17 years Bob. This is what I do.

 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
I dont think it will be a choke job, but Denver will lose to a better team. Seatlle and SF are both better teams that are built for a SuperBowl run. I think most people see Denver as a high scoring but flawed team as the Dallas game showed.

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
The defense isn't all that great, the running game is terrible, and basically...we've been here before. Probably ten times.
I guess I find this the weird thing. You admit the running game is terrible and the defense isn't that good. So basically Peyton has to be near perfect every time for this team to be a contender, and if/when he fails at that, it's because he's a choker.
:goodposting:

Denver has a great passing attack, but other than kickoff returns that's pretty much the only thing about the team that's not absolutely terrible. Bad pass defense, bad rush defense, bad rushing attack. They say you can't be one dimensional but they're one dimensional on offense and zero dimensional on defense.

As the Dallas game showed us, they're going to lose some games. When they face a defense that they can't score 35+ against they're going to be in big trouble. I think they're an underdog against Seattle not just in the playoffs, but the regular season as well. Seattle will have no problems scoring against Denver and putting up 30+ back against the Seahawks is going to be tough.

Seattle is less flashy, but they're a better team than Denver.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Arwald

Footballguy
It will be the Patriots, who will have an amazing run at the superbowl this year.

Storyline of the game will be that Amendola is healthy while Welker is out for the season after an injury on a dropped TD pass in the last second of the game, that would have been Peytons 51st TD of the year. New England will go on and win the Superbowl against the Niners, in snow, 59-0. Brady and BB will both retire after that game.

PS: Yes I'm a patriots homer

 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeaLerZ

Footballguy
I think it is wayyyy too early to make this kind of prediction... we haven't seen the Bronco's defense healthy all year.. and they were actually pretty good last year minus the playoff game vs Baltimore...

I want to see how the Defense responds with everyone healthy verse some of the tougher opponents the Broncos face this year in the regular season including, NE, KC, and IND (Week 7, which Bailey and Miller should be back by than)

Bailey may be on his last leg, but he still brings leadership to this team... Miller is a stud LB who is an amazing pass rusher

Plus I would say this piece of information is pretty important as well...

Bear in mind: missing from most of yesterdays game wasn't just Champ and Von, but also Chris Harris (Champs replacement) was out the entire 2nd half, Woodyard (mlb, QB of the D) was out after the 1st quarter, and Ayers was out a good chunk as well. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered as these guys were in when Cowboys went up 14-0, but there were a lot of points scored with them on the sidelines.

Its tough for any D missing half the team to operate at a high level.
I think if anyone brings the Broncos down this year hard it will be the Saints... the Saints have a defense creating turnovers, not allowing a lot of points and can keep up with Denver on offense

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Deamon

Footballguy
I'd like to see them go 18-0, only to lose the Super Bowl to Eli Manning and the Giants.
If Denver makes the Super Bowl, Eli better suit up in Peyton's jersey and play for him. He's clutch in the the super bowl, its on his home field... no one would know.

 

johnb

Footballguy
So the idea is that if Peyton doesn't set records, go 16-0, and close out by winning the Super Bowl, he's a choker?

I think people start looking at stats, history, ring count, etc. and forget how hard playing in the NFL is.

 

lod01

Footballguy
I think you're probably on track, but keep in mind that D is playing without arguably their 2 best players. I think Von and Champ added back in change things a bit.
Wow, people still think 'Toast' Bailey is good? He's old and washed up.

 

lod01

Footballguy
So the idea is that if Peyton doesn't set records, go 16-0, and close out by winning the Super Bowl, he's a choker?

I think people start looking at stats, history, ring count, etc. and forget how hard playing in the NFL is.
Well, he did morph into Favre in OT last year vs the Ravens.

 

Ghost Rider

Footballguy
Denver has a great passing attack, but other than kickoff returns that's pretty much the only thing about the team that's not absolutely terrible. Bad pass defense, bad rush defense, bad rushing attack. They say you can't be one dimensional but they're one dimensional on offense and zero dimensional on defense.

As the Dallas game showed us, they're going to lose some games. When they face a defense that they can't score 35+ against they're going to be in big trouble. I think they're an underdog against Seattle not just in the playoffs, but the regular season as well. Seattle will have no problems scoring against Denver and putting up 30+ back against the Seahawks is going to be tough.

Seattle is less flashy, but they're a better team than Denver.
The Broncos are 15th in rushing yards per game. That is average, not bad.

The Broncos are allowing the least amount of rushing yards per game. That is bad? And before you play the "Yeah, but they don't get run on a lot cause of all of the shootouts," they are allowing only 3.3 YPC, which is tied for 2nd best in the NFL. Again I ask, that is bad?

Seattle is a tough matchup for just about anyone, but if the Colts can put up 34 on them, then I am sure that the Broncos could as well.

 

SacramentoBob

Footballguy
The defense isn't all that great, the running game is terrible, and basically...we've been here before. Probably ten times.
I guess I find this the weird thing. You admit the running game is terrible and the defense isn't that good. So basically Peyton has to be near perfect every time for this team to be a contender, and if/when he fails at that, it's because he's a choker.
He's been choking for 17 years Bob. This is what I do.
We do this pretty much every year and last year's thread was pretty good. I forget who it was, but they posted a stat that compared Manning and Brady's playoff record broken down by their QBR. When Manning has a great QBR, he wins in the playoffs, same for Brady. When he has anything less than stellar, he had some atrocious record. Brady, OTOH, had a winning record even when he had a low QBR. So Brady is a winner because his team can bail him out of a tough game, and Manning is a choker because his teams can't. That's not to say that Manning hasn't had some awful playoff games, especially earlier in his career.

 

TheLurkerBelow

Footballguy
I think I'd like to know what you're definition or criteria are for "choking". To me that means someone who makes a terrible mistake or plays poorly in a big spot. I don't think Manning is known for that at all, so your basic premise is flawed and this whole thread is absurd.

 

shader

Footballguy
I think I'd like to know what you're definition or criteria are for "choking". To me that means someone who makes a terrible mistake or plays poorly in a big spot. I don't think Manning is known for that at all, so your basic premise is flawed and this whole thread is absurd.
Pretty much watch every Manning playoff loss and you'll find a great example of choking. He sets the bar both for regular season excellence (best regular season qb of all-time) and for falling apart in the post-season.

 

shader

Footballguy
I think I'd like to know what you're definition or criteria are for "choking". To me that means someone who makes a terrible mistake or plays poorly in a big spot. I don't think Manning is known for that at all, so your basic premise is flawed and this whole thread is absurd.
by the way... :lmao:

 
Last edited by a moderator:

shader

Footballguy
The defense isn't all that great, the running game is terrible, and basically...we've been here before. Probably ten times.
I guess I find this the weird thing. You admit the running game is terrible and the defense isn't that good. So basically Peyton has to be near perfect every time for this team to be a contender, and if/when he fails at that, it's because he's a choker.
He's been choking for 17 years Bob. This is what I do.
We do this pretty much every year and last year's thread was pretty good. I forget who it was, but they posted a stat that compared Manning and Brady's playoff record broken down by their QBR. When Manning has a great QBR, he wins in the playoffs, same for Brady. When he has anything less than stellar, he had some atrocious record. Brady, OTOH, had a winning record even when he had a low QBR. So Brady is a winner because his team can bail him out of a tough game, and Manning is a choker because his teams can't. That's not to say that Manning hasn't had some awful playoff games, especially earlier in his career.
Yeah that was a fun thread. Manning choked, and of course people rushed to slam Brady, as if that had something to do with what I was discussing.

If a million people can slam Romo for one pick at the end of a 500 yd, 5 TD game, I can certainly slam Peyton for a lifetime of falling apart in playoff losses.

 

Spike

Footballguy
It will be the Patriots, who will have an amazing run at the superbowl this year.

Storyline of the game will be that Amendola is healthy while Welker is out for the season after an injury on a dropped TD pass in the last second of the game, that would have been Peytons 51st TD of the year. New England will go on and win the Superbowl against the Niners, in snow, 59-0. Brady and BB will both retire after that game.

PS: Yes I'm a patriots homer
I'm fairly certain you didn't need to add in that you're a Patriots homer.

 

Hoss Style

Footballguy
I think I'd like to know what you're definition or criteria are for "choking". To me that means someone who makes a terrible mistake or plays poorly in a big spot. I don't think Manning is known for that at all, so your basic premise is flawed and this whole thread is absurd.
It's not as much fun if they use reason. Like, as what really happened. Take last year for example - Denver's safety is the one who really choked - giving away a game with a play you'll hardly ever see. Peyton had the game wrapped up against the eventual Super Bowl Champs before that play. Yet an INT later in the game trying to win the game again and the nay sayers come out of the woodwork.

It's revisionist history, and it works for them. Let them be.

 

Man of Zen

Footballguy
I think I'd like to know what you're definition or criteria are for "choking". To me that means someone who makes a terrible mistake or plays poorly in a big spot. I don't think Manning is known for that at all, so your basic premise is flawed and this whole thread is absurd.
It's not as much fun if they use reason. Like, as what really happened. Take last year for example - Denver's safety is the one who really choked - giving away a game with a play you'll hardly ever see. Peyton had the game wrapped up against the eventual Super Bowl Champs before that play. Yet an INT later in the game trying to win the game again and the nay sayers come out of the woodwork.

It's revisionist history, and it works for them. Let them be.
So what you're saying is when he had to make a play in the playoffs, he threw a pick? Sounds a lot like the SB collapse against the Saints.

 

MoveToSkypager

Footballguy
The Broncos are allowing the least amount of rushing yards per game. That is bad? And before you play the "Yeah, but they don't get run on a lot cause of all of the shootouts," they are allowing only 3.3 YPC, which is tied for 2nd best in the NFL. Again I ask, that is bad?
Yeah, I thought this was strange. Also, KC has allowed a very high ypc rushing. I don't understand why.

 

Gandalf the Grey

Footballguy
I think I'd like to know what you're definition or criteria are for "choking". To me that means someone who makes a terrible mistake or plays poorly in a big spot. I don't think Manning is known for that at all, so your basic premise is flawed and this whole thread is absurd.
It's not as much fun if they use reason. Like, as what really happened. Take last year for example - Denver's safety is the one who really choked - giving away a game with a play you'll hardly ever see. Peyton had the game wrapped up against the eventual Super Bowl Champs before that play. Yet an INT later in the game trying to win the game again and the nay sayers come out of the woodwork.It's revisionist history, and it works for them. Let them be.
Shader has a thing for Peyton. He was an active participant in a thread about a year ago (he may have started it?). Kind of sad, he was refuted in the last thread but feels eerily compelled to push it again. Kind of nutty.

 

FF Wiseguy

Footballguy
Bill Barnwell wrote an article (which I could not find to link) that discusses how a lot of the "Manning is a choker, Brady is clutch" argument is based on chronology, with Manning having a lot of his choke games early in his career. But he pointed out that if you flip Brady's timeline around, it comes close to resembling Manning's history. But Brady's early successes wrote his story before it was finished, as it did with Manning's failures.

 

Leroy Hoard

Footballguy
I think I'd like to know what you're definition or criteria are for "choking". To me that means someone who makes a terrible mistake or plays poorly in a big spot. I don't think Manning is known for that at all, so your basic premise is flawed and this whole thread is absurd.
It's not as much fun if they use reason. Like, as what really happened. Take last year for example - Denver's safety is the one who really choked - giving away a game with a play you'll hardly ever see. Peyton had the game wrapped up against the eventual Super Bowl Champs before that play. Yet an INT later in the game trying to win the game again and the nay sayers come out of the woodwork.

It's revisionist history, and it works for them. Let them be.
All true. And it really isn't saying anything when you pick one player or one team out of 32 NOT to win. Tell us who WILL win and now you are actually saying something.

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
Has there ever been a team that, prior to the playoffs (especially a month into the season) would have had better than 2:1 odds vs. the field to win the Super Bowl?

I'm pretty sure that's never even come close to happening, and I'm definitely sure Denver is not getting anywhere near those odds right now. So why would it be a surprise if a team that, compared to the field, is an underdog to win the SB didn't win the SB?

 

Dentist

***Official FBG Dentist***
What this team and peyton are doing isn't really that much different or better than what the Pats did in '07.... except that the passing rules are more lax thus it is easier to generate stats.

 

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
The defense isn't all that great, the running game is terrible, and basically...we've been here before. Probably ten times.
I guess I find this the weird thing. You admit the running game is terrible and the defense isn't that good. So basically Peyton has to be near perfect every time for this team to be a contender, and if/when he fails at that, it's because he's a choker.
He's been choking for 17 years Bob. This is what I do.
We do this pretty much every year and last year's thread was pretty good. I forget who it was, but they posted a stat that compared Manning and Brady's playoff record broken down by their QBR. When Manning has a great QBR, he wins in the playoffs, same for Brady. When he has anything less than stellar, he had some atrocious record. Brady, OTOH, had a winning record even when he had a low QBR. So Brady is a winner because his team can bail him out of a tough game, and Manning is a choker because his teams can't. That's not to say that Manning hasn't had some awful playoff games, especially earlier in his career.
I'd like to see this same case study with Romo. The Cowboys don't win 4 games annually w/o Romo.

 

bicycle_seat_sniffer

Smells like chicken
Bill Barnwell wrote an article (which I could not find to link) that discusses how a lot of the "Manning is a choker, Brady is clutch" argument is based on chronology, with Manning having a lot of his choke games early in his career. But he pointed out that if you flip Brady's timeline around, it comes close to resembling Manning's history. But Brady's early successes wrote his story before it was finished, as it did with Manning's failures.
this makes no sense. Manning had a giant gaffe that lost his team the superbowl vs the saints, and that was after Peyton already won a superbowl.

 

GregR

Footballguy
Bill Barnwell wrote an article (which I could not find to link) that discusses how a lot of the "Manning is a choker, Brady is clutch" argument is based on chronology, with Manning having a lot of his choke games early in his career. But he pointed out that if you flip Brady's timeline around, it comes close to resembling Manning's history. But Brady's early successes wrote his story before it was finished, as it did with Manning's failures.
This one?

 

zoonation

Footballguy
So the idea is that if Peyton doesn't set records, go 16-0, and close out by winning the Super Bowl, he's a choker?

I think people start looking at stats, history, ring count, etc. and forget how hard playing in the NFL is.
Well, he did morph into Favre in OT last year vs the Ravens.
In fairness he never should have been in ot to begin with. That is on the d

 

zoonation

Footballguy
Bill Barnwell wrote an article (which I could not find to link) that discusses how a lot of the "Manning is a choker, Brady is clutch" argument is based on chronology, with Manning having a lot of his choke games early in his career. But he pointed out that if you flip Brady's timeline around, it comes close to resembling Manning's history. But Brady's early successes wrote his story before it was finished, as it did with Manning's failures.
I love how people love to call Brady clutch. The guy hasn't won anything in 8 years despite making the playoffs with dominant teams most of those years. His first ring was a dilferesque just don't lose it job too.

Not saying the guy isn't one if the best ever, but this idea that he was/is super clutch and Manning isn't is ridiculous.

 

codyj123_321

Footballguy
OP is probably a Brady fan..smh

Will do anything they can to discredit everything peyton does. They shouldn't have lost to Ravens in playoffs but Moore plays the worst angle on the ball ever but I guess that's peytons fault too? Peyton turns the ball over at bad times yes, but his defense always puts him in that position.

 

madviking10

Footballguy
Manning is due to choke any week. Seems they keep giving him a smaller helmet every time he goes out. Squish any jelly doughnut hard enough and the jelly will squirt out. (Fact)

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Man of Zen

Footballguy
Peyton has just about been killed by the cotton candy joke defenses of Cowboys and the Colts, and has the Chiefs coming up twice. I don't think he finishes the season. :shrug:

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
Peyton has just about been killed by the cotton candy joke defenses of Cowboys and the Colts, and has the Chiefs coming up twice. I don't think he finishes the season. :shrug:
In last week's FBG content Matt Botonti had the Denver Oline ranked 26th, D+ overall with a C for pass blocking and an arrow down for trend.

I have a question about the rankings generally, like he had NE at 5th overall with an A- for pass blocking a week after the Saints took Brady down 5 times and hit him several more, but at any rate the Denver number also struck me because it's so counterintuitive considering how well the Bronco machine's been cranking.

As for Payton, who wouldn't trade half their roster for him right now.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Adam Harstad

Moderator
Man of Zen said:
Peyton has just about been killed by the cotton candy joke defenses of Cowboys and the Colts, and has the Chiefs coming up twice. I don't think he finishes the season. :shrug:
Even after the Colts game, Manning has been sacked 9 times and hit 12 times on the year. Defenses are getting hands on him an average of 3 times a game. I think he'll hold up just fine.

 

ShockTheMonkey

Footballguy
I think I'd like to know what you're definition or criteria are for "choking". To me that means someone who makes a terrible mistake or plays poorly in a big spot. I don't think Manning is known for that at all, so your basic premise is flawed and this whole thread is absurd.
Pretty much watch every Manning playoff loss and you'll find a great example of choking. He sets the bar both for regular season excellence (best regular season qb of all-time) and for falling apart in the post-season.
Thought he won a Superbowl MVP

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top