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Trading (1 Viewer)

bshell27

Footballguy
Seriously,

The two leagues I am in, I have found two to be my max before I have to root for too many players, NEVER trade. THe owners hoarde their players and you seriously have to trade Michael Turner to get Chris Chambers. What drives guys to be like this??? Does anyone else experience this?

 
Making a decision is the hardest thing to do in life. I find guys just don't want to regret a 'bad' trade and thus are afraid to pull the trigger on anything less than a slam dunk. Some owners need to 'win' each trade and can't see that a trade can help both owners.

 
strange - i've never found this. there are quite a few owners in both leagues i'm in and i've done 3 trades in one and 2 in another. granted, there haven't been any other trades done by anyone else, but i like trading. it just takes effort and finding out what another person needs and what might tempt them to make a deal.

 
I play both football and baseball, and I can tell you this people value players very differently. There are some owners that believe they did all their homework and will hang onto their drafted players till the bitter end or have to be ripping you off to make a trade. The other side is there are owners out there that dont feel right unless they are wheeling and dealing.

In my two local leagues there is a fair amount of trading but not over the top. We already have two trades in my main league, this is a bit early but injuries made them happen.

In my book to many people are always looking to move big name for big name. no one wants to do the average player for average player deal even if it would help both teams. Sometime a solid RB can traded for solid WR to make both better without giving up two studs.

 
New players tend to be like this. They get attatched to their draft picks and think everyone sees the same value they do. My big $$ league used to be this way when we had 1 or 2 new players every year. Now that people are more comfortable with each other, and we have a LOT more overall experience in the league now (9 years running!), people are easier to open up. We do still have a couple owners who overvalue, one in particular, but he's 4-0 and sitting on his picks because he doesn't want to help anyone out. He wouldn't really improve his team much. That's a good strategy too..

I guess keep throwing out offers, find another team's weakness and prey on it with overperformers. It can get there eventually.

 
Our money league its $5 for add/drops and $10 a trade. Of the 12 teams 7 teams now have co owners. I would think since splitting the bill there would be more movement throughout the league. Actually harder for them to pull the trigger bc one is actively involved while the other is more or less a funder that holds value to guys based on what they remember from past seasons. Campbell and Gore for P. Manning and MJD. I'm actually giving up more based on this season's production basically in hopes of Manning getting things in tune. Ohh no, owner thought I was crazy. Takes away from the fun of it all... and in all its more or less luck!

 
Seriously, The two leagues I am in, I have found two to be my max before I have to root for too many players, NEVER trade. THe owners hoarde their players and you seriously have to trade Michael Turner to get Chris Chambers. What drives guys to be like this??? Does anyone else experience this?
Some owners just look at their own team through rose colored glasses. There are quite a few in my league like this. The reasons they give for turning down trades is always "this guy could break out", they only see the potential upside in their guys which makes them overvalued.
 
I am in a couple of leagues where we bounce solid

trade offers off of each other almost daily.

It's a lot of fun, sometimes it ends up a deal, and sometimes not,

but I love the action.

Of course there leagues where most owners don't like to trade at all,

or are completely vacant when it comes to creating a deal.

To me this is the difference between a great league and a pedestrian league.

 
My league hardly trades anymore. There is about 3-4 guys willing to trade but everybody else is afraid or doesn't take the time to consider trades. I was always making trade offers in the past but started to give up because of the lack or responses/negotiating. Other than the draft, I think trades are one of the best parts of a FF league.

 
Our money league its $5 for add/drops and $10 a trade. Of the 12 teams 7 teams now have co owners. I would think since splitting the bill there would be more movement throughout the league. Actually harder for them to pull the trigger bc one is actively involved while the other is more or less a funder that holds value to guys based on what they remember from past seasons. Campbell and Gore for P. Manning and MJD. I'm actually giving up more based on this season's production basically in hopes of Manning getting things in tune. Ohh no, owner thought I was crazy. Takes away from the fun of it all... and in all its more or less luck!
Charge more for transactions and less if nothing for trades. Why make people pay for trades? Seems like a way to discourage action. We like action.
 
Our money league its $5 for add/drops and $10 a trade. Of the 12 teams 7 teams now have co owners. I would think since splitting the bill there would be more movement throughout the league. Actually harder for them to pull the trigger bc one is actively involved while the other is more or less a funder that holds value to guys based on what they remember from past seasons. Campbell and Gore for P. Manning and MJD. I'm actually giving up more based on this season's production basically in hopes of Manning getting things in tune. Ohh no, owner thought I was crazy. Takes away from the fun of it all... and in all its more or less luck!
Charge more for transactions and less if nothing for trades. Why make people pay for trades? Seems like a way to discourage action. We like action.
Ding Ding :banned: In my $$ league we made trades free about 10 years ago, vs. the paying for waivers and FA add drops. It did a lot to get the ball rolling and honestly makes FF a whole lot more fun. Wheeling and dealing with someone else is better than just putting in a claim, but you have to be good--and lucky--at both the win consistently.
 
I think it's a mix of a lot of the things mentioned. Owner's often tend to overvalue their own players. They also hold onto the draft pick they spent for him long after it loses it's relevance. Moss may have cost you a top 10 pick 6 weeks ago, but he's obviously not worth that anymore. I also think many are afraid of making a bad deal, and won't pull the trigger unless (as mentioned already) it's a slam dunk in their favor. If you have a solid team already, there's also the added impact of them not wanting to make your team better, even if it improves theirs as well.

I'm in a 12 team league where I'm pretty stacked at RB & WR:

LJ, Jacobs, R Bush, Rudi

TO, Cal J, Bowe, R White, K Walter, Branch

I also have only Rodgers & Garrard at QB, so the shoulder issue has me concerned.

There's another owner who wound up with Romo (who he's started every week) and Cutler at QB, but his RBs & WRs are:

C Johnson, Stewart, M Bush & worse

R Moss, V Jackson & waiver wire scraps

I offered him a few RB + WR for Cutler deals, all of which give him 2 guys he would be starting almost every week, instead of Cutler wasting away on his bench. The guy is 3-1, mostly by good scheduling luck at this point, but if he improved his lineup a bit he'd be able to contend every week w/o luck. He's turned every deal down and says he wouldn't give up Cutler for any deal unless it included TO.

I've tried to explain to him that getting a top 5 WR for Cutler (or any QB other than 2007 Brady, for that matter) is unrealistic, but he won't budge. I've tried to tell him that there's a reason I drafted TO when even #2 rated QB Romo was still on the board, and would do the same if we redrafted today, and he obviously understands the relative value since he took Moss in the first round himself, but he still won't budge. I don't get it... :scared:

I don't think I've ever seen a more obvious scenario where 2 teams could both benefit greatly by making a deal, but I doubt it's going to happen.

 
Our money league its $5 for add/drops and $10 a trade. Of the 12 teams 7 teams now have co owners. I would think since splitting the bill there would be more movement throughout the league. Actually harder for them to pull the trigger bc one is actively involved while the other is more or less a funder that holds value to guys based on what they remember from past seasons. Campbell and Gore for P. Manning and MJD. I'm actually giving up more based on this season's production basically in hopes of Manning getting things in tune. Ohh no, owner thought I was crazy. Takes away from the fun of it all... and in all its more or less luck!
Charge more for transactions and less if nothing for trades. Why make people pay for trades? Seems like a way to discourage action. We like action.
Ding Ding :scared: In my $$ league we made trades free about 10 years ago, vs. the paying for waivers and FA add drops. It did a lot to get the ball rolling and honestly makes FF a whole lot more fun. Wheeling and dealing with someone else is better than just putting in a claim, but you have to be good--and lucky--at both the win consistently.
Supreme idea.
 
In two of my leagues , trades happen all the time. In what I consider my big money league, I have seen two trades in four years. In that league, it is really important to draft your team figuring that you won't be making any trades during the season. It does little good to stockpile any position for leverage later in the season. It just doesn't work. :lmao:

 
A big piece that most of us forget is that FBG rankings really are quite different from "conventional wisdom". That's especially true if you go by the Top 250 Forward. While none of us go by FBGs exclusively (I hope), we're all here because we trust their rankings to some extent.

I've been tyrying to trade for Jay Cutler in one league. I have guys like Reggie Bush and Calvin Johnson as trade bait. FBGs thinks both guys are slightly more valuable on their own than Cutler. The other owner wants both guys before he'll consider the deal, and even that wouldn't be a sure thing.

Is he crazy? Not really. Bush is a top ten RB, and Calvin is arguably a top ten WR (FBG has him higher, but they like him more than most other rankings you'll find). Cutler may be the #1 QB. This guy doesn't want to trade a #1 for a #8 or 9. Now we all know about position scarcity and VBD, etc., etc. But the other guy doesn't. He might be wrong to look elsewhere for a trade, but he's not crazy. He just looks at things differently.

I'm not saying the FBGs approach is wrong. In fact I've got a few trophies and cash payouts over the years that say otherwise. But it's definitely a factor. FBGers will always have a tougher time trading than guys who go by the Yahoo rankings. It's the price you pay for having better information than everyone else.

 
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PoolShark said:
I think it's a mix of a lot of the things mentioned. Owner's often tend to overvalue their own players. They also hold onto the draft pick they spent for him long after it loses it's relevance. Moss may have cost you a top 10 pick 6 weeks ago, but he's obviously not worth that anymore. I also think many are afraid of making a bad deal, and won't pull the trigger unless (as mentioned already) it's a slam dunk in their favor. If you have a solid team already, there's also the added impact of them not wanting to make your team better, even if it improves theirs as well. I'm in a 12 team league where I'm pretty stacked at RB & WR:LJ, Jacobs, R Bush, RudiTO, Cal J, Bowe, R White, K Walter, BranchI also have only Rodgers & Garrard at QB, so the shoulder issue has me concerned.There's another owner who wound up with Romo (who he's started every week) and Cutler at QB, but his RBs & WRs are:C Johnson, Stewart, M Bush & worseR Moss, V Jackson & waiver wire scrapsI offered him a few RB + WR for Cutler deals, all of which give him 2 guys he would be starting almost every week, instead of Cutler wasting away on his bench. The guy is 3-1, mostly by good scheduling luck at this point, but if he improved his lineup a bit he'd be able to contend every week w/o luck. He's turned every deal down and says he wouldn't give up Cutler for any deal unless it included TO. I've tried to explain to him that getting a top 5 WR for Cutler (or any QB other than 2007 Brady, for that matter) is unrealistic, but he won't budge. I've tried to tell him that there's a reason I drafted TO when even #2 rated QB Romo was still on the board, and would do the same if we redrafted today, and he obviously understands the relative value since he took Moss in the first round himself, but he still won't budge. I don't get it... :shrug:I don't think I've ever seen a more obvious scenario where 2 teams could both benefit greatly by making a deal, but I doubt it's going to happen.
If you really believe in Cutler I don't think TO is that bad of a deal. In a standard 12-team league the top 4 QBs are gone by the middle of the 2nd round. TO is typically taken by the end of the 1st-middle of the 2nd. If he'll go TO for Cutler straight up, I'd do it. BUT you have Rodgers and if he's healthy you don't really need to make that trade.P.S.You're far from stacked at WR.
 
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Ron_Mexico said:
I am in a couple of leagues where we bounce solidtrade offers off of each other almost daily.It's a lot of fun, sometimes it ends up a deal, and sometimes not,but I love the action.Of course there leagues where most owners don't like to trade at all,or are completely vacant when it comes to creating a deal.To me this is the difference between a great league and a pedestrian league.
:angry: I could almost accept the fact the no one in my $ league (going on 8 years) will make trades, if they would at least haggle a little. There's only 1 other owner I can get to even make counter offers.I've begged them, "What's your price. Doesn't matter how absurd." They just say "no thanks". :kicksrock:
 
Plaid Boxer said:
Making a decision is the hardest thing to do in life. I find guys just don't want to regret a 'bad' trade and thus are afraid to pull the trigger on anything less than a slam dunk. Some owners need to 'win' each trade and can't see that a trade can help both owners.
That's a load of BS and you know it - All of you guys love to trade because YOU like winning trades. You can cut that used car salesman "We both win...it's a great deal for the both of us" schtick. I personally have somewhat of a life and really don't have time to dissect 8 player trades that are thrown at me a few times a week. The majority of the BS offers are the good team preying on the weak and/or new owners. Trades are hard to get done because EVERYONE over values their players. Well, that and the fact the people offering the trade obviously think THEY are "winning" in the trade or they wouldn't bother offering it. Therefor, every trade offered is either looked at very cautiously or out right denied.The secret to getting trades done is OVER PAYING for what you want. I obviously know how valuable Witten is in a PPR league that starts a TE; so, if you really want him off of me stop wasting my time with BS offers and make an offer I can't refuse - period.

And cut out the insults when discussing player value during trading. Fantasy football is far from scientific, so stop questioning people's high opinions of their players. Everyone falls in love with their team, and we all know that... so why try to belittle owners for not agreeing with your OPINION of certain players value?

 
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i play in very experienced owner dynasty leagues.

What i have learned NOW is that in these leagues there's a few owners that throw out very RIDICULOUS trades like offering there ww cut guy for someone of substance from you. Thus killing any potential trades happening in the future. I commish alot of leagues and owners talk to me. I dont understand at ALL why would owners want to assume another owner is dumbaschit???? I mean, then there are owners in my league, that also tries to offer you someone hurt like you dont know it. Again that does nothing but ruin future potential trades.

There are also some very stiff owners but i call them sharp in my leagues as well. They will only do a deal to better there team. Wont do a deal cause you read somewhere James Jones is gonna be a stud and you wanna offer him a 09 2nd for him. Although he isnt worth a bunch there is no reason to move him unless you give that owner a reason to do so. I dont call these guys bad traders....there actually the smart traders.

And alot of owners fall in love with there draft picks....but come week 4/5 the love affiar end pretty quickly.

I can say that i really enjoy some very gentlemen trades i make with some of the owners i have high respect from. Other i really want to tell dont ever offer me anything...but i dont i just decline there offers.

 
dotman said:
bshell27 said:
Seriously, The two leagues I am in, I have found two to be my max before I have to root for too many players, NEVER trade. THe owners hoarde their players and you seriously have to trade Michael Turner to get Chris Chambers. What drives guys to be like this??? Does anyone else experience this?
Some owners just look at their own team through rose colored glasses. There are quite a few in my league like this. The reasons they give for turning down trades is always "this guy could break out", they only see the potential upside in their guys which makes them overvalued.
This isn't as much of a problem if the other owner sees potential upside in players not on their team. It's when they institute the double standard that you might as well be speaking Chinese...Also, the amount of teams willing to take more players back than received (in other words, not receive the best player in the deal) has really decreased in my view even though sub-standard teams should really consider these.
 
Ron_Mexico said:
I am in a couple of leagues where we bounce solid

trade offers off of each other almost daily.

It's a lot of fun, sometimes it ends up a deal, and sometimes not,

but I love the action.

Of course there leagues where most owners don't like to trade at all,

or are completely vacant when it comes to creating a deal.

To me this is the difference between a great league and a pedestrian league.
Mostly sales guys? My ONLY league is all sales guys with the exception of two (2)--an accountant and a finance guy. The accountant and the finance guy NEVER trade...scared to death. The rest of us are constantly bouncing deals off each other, even a few 3-team trades have occured over the years.I think it's the mentality of the individuals themselves. If you're playing with guys holed up in a cube all day, more than likely...not always...but more than likely there's some anxiety present towards change. Whereas a bunch of race cars in the red that are being told no 75% of each and every day may be more willing to risk a bad deal...and more importantly, handle a bad deal.

After week two (2) I traded Larry Johnson...for whom I paid high in the offseason as my RB keeper heading into the draft...for Felix Jones and an '09 3rd. Not looking good at the moment, but I have no real seller's remorse...IT'S FREAKIN' FANTASY FOOTBALL...we take it as seriously as anyone, but at the end of the day that's the meat of any FF discussion.

POINT: Don't play with accountants and if you're an accountant, loosen up...you'll have even more fun, I promise...

 
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One of the leagues I'm in has almost no trading, but it's a very even league and nobody's willing to do anything that may improve another team even marginally. The only time trades do go through is if one team gets hit by an injury and has to give up some extra value out of need.

 
Ron_Mexico said:
I am in a couple of leagues where we bounce solid

trade offers off of each other almost daily.

It's a lot of fun, sometimes it ends up a deal, and sometimes not,

but I love the action.

Of course there leagues where most owners don't like to trade at all,

or are completely vacant when it comes to creating a deal.

To me this is the difference between a great league and a pedestrian league.
Mostly sales guys? My ONLY league is all sales guys with the exception of two (2)--an accountant and a finance guy. The accountant and the finance guy NEVER trade...scared to death. The rest of us are constantly bouncing deals off each other, even a few 3-team trades have occured over the years.I think it's the mentality of the individuals themselves. If you're playing with guys holed up in a cube all day, more than likely...not always...but more than likely there's some anxiety present towards change. Whereas a bunch of race cars in the red that are being told no 75% of each and every day may be more willing to risk a bad deal...and more importantly, handle a bad deal.

After week two (2) I traded Larry Johnson...for whom I paid high in the offseason as my RB keeper heading into the draft...for Felix Jones and an '09 3rd. Not looking good at the moment, but I have no real seller's remorse...IT'S FREAKIN' FANTASY FOOTBALL...we take it as seriously as anyone, but at the end of the day that's the meat of any FF discussion.

POINT: Don't play with accountants and if you're an accountant, loosen up...you'll have even more fun, I promise...
I'm an accountant in a league with 8 other accountants and an IT guy. I'm pretty much the only guy sending out trade offers. I need a new job. :shrug:
 
What I find most frustrating about trying to make trades are guys that are stuck on where they drafted a player. "I can't trade Player X for your player Y because I drafted Player X in round one and you took player Y in round 3"! Face it, players don't always perform up to the position they were drafted.

My other pet peeve is guys who are stuck on name value. For example, "I can't possibly trade Chad Johnson for Matt Forte because I have never heard of Matt Forte." He knows he is a RB for the Bears but because he doesn't have the fame of Ocho Cinco, he won't make the trade.

 
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i play in very experienced owner dynasty leagues.What i have learned NOW is that in these leagues there's a few owners that throw out very RIDICULOUS trades like offering there ww cut guy for someone of substance from you. Thus killing any potential trades happening in the future. I commish alot of leagues and owners talk to me. I dont understand at ALL why would owners want to assume another owner is dumbaschit???? I mean, then there are owners in my league, that also tries to offer you someone hurt like you dont know it. Again that does nothing but ruin future potential trades. There are also some very stiff owners but i call them sharp in my leagues as well. They will only do a deal to better there team. Wont do a deal cause you read somewhere James Jones is gonna be a stud and you wanna offer him a 09 2nd for him. Although he isnt worth a bunch there is no reason to move him unless you give that owner a reason to do so. I dont call these guys bad traders....there actually the smart traders. And alot of owners fall in love with there draft picks....but come week 4/5 the love affiar end pretty quickly. I can say that i really enjoy some very gentlemen trades i make with some of the owners i have high respect from. Other i really want to tell dont ever offer me anything...but i dont i just decline there offers.
In any trade situation, the ultimate question is how do each of you value the playrs being discussed? IMO, the quicker that you get to an understanding of where you guys stand on that issue, the quicker either a deal gets done or you move on until the next time. Having been in a league with UCB for a couple of years, I know that he never sends trades that I deem silly even when we are nowhere close in how we see value.Overall, remember that trading is the one area of fantasy football that requires you to know the personality of your league mates. If you want to trade, find out if the guy wants to see hard offers or likes to engage in a lot of banter. while you may have a general style understand that if that style clashes with another, but you want to do business with that guy, you will have to be flexible to get the job done. Sometimes, even the mix of people influences the amount of trading. I have new dynasty league where I know that 3 or 4 of the members are trade regularly in other leagues, and that league also has three competitve brothers, yet there is really little trading. From what I can tell the members are enjoying the league, but the trades are not happening that often.
 
bshell27 said:
Seriously, The two leagues I am in, I have found two to be my max before I have to root for too many players, NEVER trade. THe owners hoarde their players and you seriously have to trade Michael Turner to get Chris Chambers. What drives guys to be like this??? Does anyone else experience this?
great post! I'm in three leagues, in two of them , trading is as rare as seeing Haley's Comet..In the third league, its like a bunch of used car salesmen in leisure suits wheeling and dealing , taking there chances at any offer thrown their way..'you want to trade me an Escalade for a '72 Ford Pinto?! you've got a DEAL!!!"I love the league where everyone trades..I think one of the other posters in this thread got it right, in that a lot of GM's think they need to 'win' a trade for it to be effective..or , as in often the case, many GM's simply overrate their players and their fantasy teams....most times I find that if you approach another GM with a quality offer, they think they have the upper hand and will low ball you, offering their scrubs for your star player..For most GM's , trading in fantasy football is an admission that they drafted poorly, and simply put many GMs are to proud to admit that they're wrong about a guy..
 
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POINT: Don't play with accountants and if you're an accountant, loosen up...you'll have even more fun, I promise...
I'm an accountant and I wheel and deal a lot in all leagues.Then again when I tell people I'm an accountant they usually say I don't seem like one.
 
Only trades that go down in my league are generally made so one team can acquire a QB.

I would guess that so few trades happen because everyone has about the same amount of knowledge and skill. We are all experienced, we know who is a buy-low or a sell-high, so that stuff usually doesn't work.

 
strange - i've never found this. there are quite a few owners in both leagues i'm in and i've done 3 trades in one and 2 in another. granted, there haven't been any other trades done by anyone else, but i like trading. it just takes effort and finding out what another person needs and what might tempt them to make a deal.
You've got TWO teams? And only ONE is in your sig?WTF?????? :goodposting:
 
What I find most frustrating about trying to make trades are guys that are stuck on where they drafted a player.
This is absolutely, bar none, my biggest pet peeve in almost EVERY league I've ever been in.After you've hit week 6 and your #2 draft choice is performing like a #8 pick, you logically can't expect to offer him around for/be offered 2nd round value. Stop wasting everyone's time.By the same token, the guys who expect ridiculous lowball offers for a productive WW acquisition to work aren't any better. If the guy is producing, you're going to have to pay for what that production is worth, not for the fact that someone only spent a dollar on him as a WW pickup. Again, why waste everyone's time?
 
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I make a lot of trades in my 7 dynasty leagues, but I can also see where an owner doesn't feel like he has to make a trade just to satisfy another owner's addiction to trading. If someone offers me a trade that doesn't help my team, then why should I counter offer his offer? You know the type of owners I'm talking about. They offer you a trade as if they didn't even look at your roster, then get upset because you don't counter. I also can't stand those that send you the ol' "What do you want for so and so?". If you want to make me an offer, then go for it. If I'm interested I might accept your offer, or counter, otherwise I will just reject it. I feel it's up to the person who initiated interest in trading to make the initial offer. One last thing, those who don't respond to offers, however stupid they are, are just as bad as the owner who made them. If you don't like the offer, reject it. No sense in pooping on your own face by turning off another owner for future deals.

 
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I make a lot of trades in my 7 dynasty leagues, but I can also see where an owner doesn't feel like he has to make a trade just to satisfy another owner's addiction to trading. If someone offers me a trade that doesn't help my team, then why should I counter offer his offer? You know the type of owners I'm talking about. They offer you a trade as if they didn't even look at your roster, then get upset because you don't counter. I also can't stand those that send you the ol' "What do you want for so and so?". If you want to make me an offer, then go for it. If I'm interested I might accept your offer, or counter, otherwise I will just reject it. I feel it's up to the person who initiated interest in trading to make the initial offer. One last thing, those who don't respond to offers, however stupid they are, are just as bad as the owner who made them. If you don't like the offer, reject it. No sense in pooping on your own face by turning off another owner for future deals.
Well said. Nothing irritates me more than someone who can't even bother to make an initial offer. Though pretty close is the person that provides no useful feedback whatsoever. Earlier this year in a baseball league, I had a conversation that went something like this:Me: "Hi, I was interested in picking up X, Y, and Z for the stretch run and playoffs. I wasn't sure if you'd be interested in picks, players, or a combination of both. I have these players available, and would offer any of them plus Nth pick, or could raise the pick if you don't want players back. Any interest?"Him: "X and Y could be available."That's it. No comments on my offer, no counteroffer. I already gave him multiple options. Did he like them? Not like them? Did he want something else not mentioned? There's no indication of any preference, interest, or starting point. Completely useless.
 
My main league is like that in that fact that the only time a trade gets down is when it's face to face. There have been five trades this year, all five involved me, and I got the better in three of them. I just love wheeling and dealing.

 
My main league is like that in that fact that the only time a trade gets down is when it's face to face. There have been five trades this year, all five involved me, and I got the better in three of them. I just love wheeling and dealing.
I play in leagues where I've seen owners so addicted to trading they take a championship caliber team and ruin it in no time. Also, feeling the need to "get the better of them" is really not the best way to approach trading. The idea is to better your team, and if you also get the better end of the trade, then so be it.ETA: I don't consider myself addicted to trading, but I have made some bone head trades. I believe all of us have at one time or another. Sometimes it's the trades you don't make that are most important.
 
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I think it's a mix of a lot of the things mentioned. Owner's often tend to overvalue their own players. They also hold onto the draft pick they spent for him long after it loses it's relevance. Moss may have cost you a top 10 pick 6 weeks ago, but he's obviously not worth that anymore. I also think many are afraid of making a bad deal, and won't pull the trigger unless (as mentioned already) it's a slam dunk in their favor. If you have a solid team already, there's also the added impact of them not wanting to make your team better, even if it improves theirs as well. I'm in a 12 team league where I'm pretty stacked at RB & WR:LJ, Jacobs, R Bush, RudiTO, Cal J, Bowe, R White, K Walter, BranchI also have only Rodgers & Garrard at QB, so the shoulder issue has me concerned.There's another owner who wound up with Romo (who he's started every week) and Cutler at QB, but his RBs & WRs are:C Johnson, Stewart, M Bush & worseR Moss, V Jackson & waiver wire scrapsI offered him a few RB + WR for Cutler deals, all of which give him 2 guys he would be starting almost every week, instead of Cutler wasting away on his bench. The guy is 3-1, mostly by good scheduling luck at this point, but if he improved his lineup a bit he'd be able to contend every week w/o luck. He's turned every deal down and says he wouldn't give up Cutler for any deal unless it included TO. I've tried to explain to him that getting a top 5 WR for Cutler (or any QB other than 2007 Brady, for that matter) is unrealistic, but he won't budge. I've tried to tell him that there's a reason I drafted TO when even #2 rated QB Romo was still on the board, and would do the same if we redrafted today, and he obviously understands the relative value since he took Moss in the first round himself, but he still won't budge. I don't get it... :excited:I don't think I've ever seen a more obvious scenario where 2 teams could both benefit greatly by making a deal, but I doubt it's going to happen.
If you really believe in Cutler I don't think TO is that bad of a deal. In a standard 12-team league the top 4 QBs are gone by the middle of the 2nd round. TO is typically taken by the end of the 1st-middle of the 2nd. If he'll go TO for Cutler straight up, I'd do it. BUT you have Rodgers and if he's healthy you don't really need to make that trade.P.S.You're far from stacked at WR.
I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a standard 12 team league, but in this one Brady went mid 1st, Romo went mid 2nd, Brees late 2nd & Manning mid 3rd. The other league I play in was pretty similar.12 team league & I'm "far from stacked at WR?" Two solid WR1s, 1 solid WR2, 1 mid to low WR2, an average WR3, plus Branch who could wind up in the WR2 mix within a couple weeks... I dunno, I think I'm stacked. Not that it's the ultimate authority, but the current rankings in FBGs Trade Dominator grade my WRs out at 4000+, with the next closest teams in this league all in the 2500-2600 range. As it stands, all 5 of my WRs except Branch are in the top 20 in average points per game. I'd say that's pretty solid in any 12 team league.
 
I think it's a mix of a lot of the things mentioned. Owner's often tend to overvalue their own players. They also hold onto the draft pick they spent for him long after it loses it's relevance. Moss may have cost you a top 10 pick 6 weeks ago, but he's obviously not worth that anymore. I also think many are afraid of making a bad deal, and won't pull the trigger unless (as mentioned already) it's a slam dunk in their favor. If you have a solid team already, there's also the added impact of them not wanting to make your team better, even if it improves theirs as well. I'm in a 12 team league where I'm pretty stacked at RB & WR:LJ, Jacobs, R Bush, RudiTO, Cal J, Bowe, R White, K Walter, BranchI also have only Rodgers & Garrard at QB, so the shoulder issue has me concerned.There's another owner who wound up with Romo (who he's started every week) and Cutler at QB, but his RBs & WRs are:C Johnson, Stewart, M Bush & worseR Moss, V Jackson & waiver wire scrapsI offered him a few RB + WR for Cutler deals, all of which give him 2 guys he would be starting almost every week, instead of Cutler wasting away on his bench. The guy is 3-1, mostly by good scheduling luck at this point, but if he improved his lineup a bit he'd be able to contend every week w/o luck. He's turned every deal down and says he wouldn't give up Cutler for any deal unless it included TO. I've tried to explain to him that getting a top 5 WR for Cutler (or any QB other than 2007 Brady, for that matter) is unrealistic, but he won't budge. I've tried to tell him that there's a reason I drafted TO when even #2 rated QB Romo was still on the board, and would do the same if we redrafted today, and he obviously understands the relative value since he took Moss in the first round himself, but he still won't budge. I don't get it... :shrug:I don't think I've ever seen a more obvious scenario where 2 teams could both benefit greatly by making a deal, but I doubt it's going to happen.
If you really believe in Cutler I don't think TO is that bad of a deal. In a standard 12-team league the top 4 QBs are gone by the middle of the 2nd round. TO is typically taken by the end of the 1st-middle of the 2nd. If he'll go TO for Cutler straight up, I'd do it. BUT you have Rodgers and if he's healthy you don't really need to make that trade.P.S.You're far from stacked at WR.
I don't know any leagues were 4 QBs are gone by the mid 2nd round...no way
 
I think it's a mix of a lot of the things mentioned. Owner's often tend to overvalue their own players. They also hold onto the draft pick they spent for him long after it loses it's relevance. Moss may have cost you a top 10 pick 6 weeks ago, but he's obviously not worth that anymore. I also think many are afraid of making a bad deal, and won't pull the trigger unless (as mentioned already) it's a slam dunk in their favor. If you have a solid team already, there's also the added impact of them not wanting to make your team better, even if it improves theirs as well.

I'm in a 12 team league where I'm pretty stacked at RB & WR:

LJ, Jacobs, R Bush, Rudi

TO, Cal J, Bowe, R White, K Walter, Branch

I also have only Rodgers & Garrard at QB, so the shoulder issue has me concerned.

There's another owner who wound up with Romo (who he's started every week) and Cutler at QB, but his RBs & WRs are:

C Johnson, Stewart, M Bush & worse

R Moss, V Jackson & waiver wire scraps

I offered him a few RB + WR for Cutler deals, all of which give him 2 guys he would be starting almost every week, instead of Cutler wasting away on his bench. The guy is 3-1, mostly by good scheduling luck at this point, but if he improved his lineup a bit he'd be able to contend every week w/o luck. He's turned every deal down and says he wouldn't give up Cutler for any deal unless it included TO.

I've tried to explain to him that getting a top 5 WR for Cutler (or any QB other than 2007 Brady, for that matter) is unrealistic, but he won't budge. I've tried to tell him that there's a reason I drafted TO when even #2 rated QB Romo was still on the board, and would do the same if we redrafted today, and he obviously understands the relative value since he took Moss in the first round himself, but he still won't budge. I don't get it... :confused:

I don't think I've ever seen a more obvious scenario where 2 teams could both benefit greatly by making a deal, but I doubt it's going to happen.
If you really believe in Cutler I don't think TO is that bad of a deal. In a standard 12-team league the top 4 QBs are gone by the middle of the 2nd round. TO is typically taken by the end of the 1st-middle of the 2nd. If he'll go TO for Cutler straight up, I'd do it. BUT you have Rodgers and if he's healthy you don't really need to make that trade.P.S.

You're far from stacked at WR.
I don't know any leagues were 4 QBs are gone by the mid 2nd round...no way
14 team redraft here.1.03 Tom Brady

1.05 Peyton Manning

1.06 Ben Roethlisberger

1.08 Eli Manning

1.09 Tony Romo

1.11 Drew Brees

2.03 Carson Palmer

2.05 Derek Anderson

2.11 Donovan McNabb

2.13 Matt Hasselbeck

eta -> :lmao:

I'm in a similar situation as PoolShark.

We start 1QB, 1 RB, 1 WR, 3 Flex (RB/WR)

I've got Garrard and Rodgers at QB.

Loaded at RB (MBIII, Portis, CJ3, Graham, Slaton, Perry, MoMo, Hall)

WR is covered (AJ, Bowe, Branch, M.Jones)

One owner has both Cutler and Rivers.

Tried to work a deal for one of my RBs and Rodgers (pre-injury) for one of his QBs.

He DOES have a couple of studs, but depth drops off pretty quickly:

RB: LT, LenDale, Hightower, K.Smith, Ch.Taylor

WR: Marshall, Holmes, Mason, Baskett

Nada.

No interest at all.

I don't get it.

 
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The biggest problem that I see with lack of trading is the person making the offer not seeing how the trade can benefit the OTHER TEAM. It's obvious the trade helps YOUR team, that's why you're offering the trade. It's your responsibility to sell the deal to the other team...........why does the trade benefit them? When I turn down any offer, I always explain to the other as to why I don't like the trade.....and I usually will let them know if I will consider a counteroffer or not.

Many times the other owner won't see the trade the way you do.......get over it and move on.

League setup can be an issue as well. In one of my leagues, it's a 10 team league and we only start 1 QB.....so there are 5-8 starting QBs on the waiver wire. So having QB depth is practically useless. I have Kurt Warner on my bench behind Cutler, and I can't deal Warner to get help at WR. In that league, the guys will go the WW if their starter gets injured.

 
fightingillini said:
The biggest problem that I see with lack of trading is the person making the offer not seeing how the trade can benefit the OTHER TEAM. It's obvious the trade helps YOUR team, that's why you're offering the trade. It's your responsibility to sell the deal to the other team...........why does the trade benefit them? When I turn down any offer, I always explain to the other as to why I don't like the trade.....and I usually will let them know if I will consider a counteroffer or not.
Personally, I never offer trades that I don't think benefit the other team. If you need a RB, you don't offer the guy with LT & nobody else a bunch of players he doesn't need for his only starter. That's pointless. If I need a QB, and have a lot of depth at WR, I look for teams with a 2nd solid QB, but a weak set of WRs. I also usually include something in the comments section about my reasoning for offering the deal. The deals I mentioned offering in my earlier post (RB & WR for Cutler), I did this, explained my reasoning, etc. When he rejected the one offer, his comments were "I have Stewart and Johnson. Only player I would think about for Cutler would maybe Owens but then I am locked in to Dallas." Locked into Dallas refers to the fact that he already has Romo, Witten & Folk. "I have Stewart & Johnson" I assumed to mean that he felt like he was set at RB & didn't need any help there. I don't have anything personally against Stewart & C Johnson, but I don't see how anyone can be happy with that starting tandem in a 12 team league. Especially when you consider he doesn't even have a decent bye week cover for either of them. I replied in a nice way that I thought he could be doing a lot better if he wasn't locked into starting a guy like Stewart who splits carries, not to mention adding RB depth AND acquiring a starting WR as well, etc, etc. Never heard back from him. What's that saying about not being able to help people help themselves...? On the plus side, at least he replied to the offer. I would venture 75% of the offers I make don't even merit a reply of any kind, let alone a counter offer or some type of negotiations. I'm only playing in 2 leagues this year, but I've played 4 additional ones in the last couple years & that seems to be normal. A lot of guys just don't like trading.
 
What I find most frustrating about trying to make trades are guys that are stuck on where they drafted a player.
This is absolutely, bar none, my biggest pet peeve in almost EVERY league I've ever been in.After you've hit week 6 and your #2 draft choice is performing like a #8 pick, you logically can't expect to offer him around for/be offered 2nd round value. Stop wasting everyone's time.By the same token, the guys who expect ridiculous lowball offers for a productive WW acquisition to work aren't any better. If the guy is producing, you're going to have to pay for what that production is worth, not for the fact that someone only spent a dollar on him as a WW pickup. Again, why waste everyone's time?
Yup, we are on the same page here. Putting up points is production no matter whether the guy is a high draft pick or a waiver wire acquisition. I'm currently trying to trade one of my RBs ( I have Gore, Stewart, LenDale, Deuce,Perry, Pierre Thomas and Sproles) for a WR for my third starting slot. I've offered Perry or LenDale for Vincent Jackson and been told to "stop wasting" the other guy's time if I'm not prepared to offer Stewart or Gore!!!Huh???We start 2 RBs and he only has Felix Jones, Fred Taylor and Selvin Young, but an abundance of WRs, so I can't see why we can't get a deal done.
 
I'm in a league where everyone is gun-shy after a few bad trades went down several years ago. Now they'll only trade if the deal is ridiculously lopsided. Example:

Player A Offers:

- Jason Campbell (his #2 QB)

- Lee Evans (his #2 WR)

- Mewelde Moore (just picked up off WW)

for

- Philip Rivers (my #1 QB; also have Rodgers)

- Maurice Jones-Drew (my #2 RB; have ADP and Selvin Young)

- Vincent Jackson (my #3 WR; have Boldin and Bruce)

:rolleyes:

 
My experience with making trades is that I have to make about 4 trade offers to get 1 trade done. It takes me a lot of time to find a team which is weak at a position that I'm strong at and strong where I'm weak, so we can make a win/win trade. It's just not worth the time. If more guys would at least counter offer and negotiate a little bit, even though that trade ultimately might not happen, at least the process would have some entertainment value. Know what I mean?

 
My experience with making trades is that I have to make about 4 trade offers to get 1 trade done. It takes me a lot of time to find a team which is weak at a position that I'm strong at and strong where I'm weak, so we can make a win/win trade. It's just not worth the time. If more guys would at least counter offer and negotiate a little bit, even though that trade ultimately might not happen, at least the process would have some entertainment value. Know what I mean?
All true, though I consider you very lucky to have a 25% success ratio. That's really high IMO. It does take a lot of work to not only find teams who's needs match up with your strengths, but then to formulate the actual offers to send. This year, I've tendered about 15 actual trade offers to 7 or 8 different teams in 2 leagues, plus sent out several feeler emails just to inquire about the possibility of working something out, but have yet to make a single deal. Negotiations only got going in 2 of those situations & 1 deal almost happened, but we both decided to put it on hold for 1 more week & then the circumstances changed. The worst part is sending out offers, then hearing nothing for 2 or 3 days. Not even a summary rejection with no explanation. At least then you know the guy isn't interested. I have 3 offers out right now that I made Wed-Thu, and I haven't heard a word on any of them yet, so I don't even know if the other owners have seen them...

 
My experience with making trades is that I have to make about 4 trade offers to get 1 trade done. It takes me a lot of time to find a team which is weak at a position that I'm strong at and strong where I'm weak, so we can make a win/win trade. It's just not worth the time. If more guys would at least counter offer and negotiate a little bit, even though that trade ultimately might not happen, at least the process would have some entertainment value. Know what I mean?
All true, though I consider you very lucky to have a 25% success ratio. That's really high IMO. It does take a lot of work to not only find teams who's needs match up with your strengths, but then to formulate the actual offers to send. This year, I've tendered about 15 actual trade offers to 7 or 8 different teams in 2 leagues, plus sent out several feeler emails just to inquire about the possibility of working something out, but have yet to make a single deal. Negotiations only got going in 2 of those situations & 1 deal almost happened, but we both decided to put it on hold for 1 more week & then the circumstances changed. The worst part is sending out offers, then hearing nothing for 2 or 3 days. Not even a summary rejection with no explanation. At least then you know the guy isn't interested. I have 3 offers out right now that I made Wed-Thu, and I haven't heard a word on any of them yet, so I don't even know if the other owners have seen them...
Three of my leagues are like this. In 3-4 weeks, teams get a few more losses, then the trade offers will come in. Timing could be a lot better since it's almost impossible to win out and over come 3-5 teams that are ahead of you in the standings.
 
My personal pet peeve with regards to trading players? Owners not responding to their offers!

This bugs the crap outta me. It's a given in my league that once I've identified the player(s) I want and the player(s) he could use in return, the other guy either doesn't check his email or team page very often, or he sits on the offer without letting me know he's received it. Lack of correspondence is very frustrating because the answer you're waiting on usually dictates what other trade offers or waiver wire moves you'll make.

How long is long enough before you call out these owners?

 
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Our money league its $5 for add/drops and $10 a trade. Of the 12 teams 7 teams now have co owners. I would think since splitting the bill there would be more movement throughout the league. Actually harder for them to pull the trigger bc one is actively involved while the other is more or less a funder that holds value to guys based on what they remember from past seasons. Campbell and Gore for P. Manning and MJD. I'm actually giving up more based on this season's production basically in hopes of Manning getting things in tune. Ohh no, owner thought I was crazy. Takes away from the fun of it all... and in all its more or less luck!
Charge more for transactions and less if nothing for trades. Why make people pay for trades? Seems like a way to discourage action. We like action.
Ding Ding :lmao: In my $ league we made trades free about 10 years ago, vs. the paying for waivers and FA add drops. It did a lot to get the ball rolling and honestly makes FF a whole lot more fun. Wheeling and dealing with someone else is better than just putting in a claim, but you have to be good--and lucky--at both the win consistently.
:goodposting: Discouraging trades in any way is a detriment to a league. Charging more is a detriment.
 
Seriously, The two leagues I am in, I have found two to be my max before I have to root for too many players, NEVER trade. THe owners hoarde their players and you seriously have to trade Michael Turner to get Chris Chambers. What drives guys to be like this??? Does anyone else experience this?
Trading is an art form and not always easy to accomplish. It takes two people to agree on a deal, so you have to present your trade in the best light possible but don't insult the other owner. It's not easy. It also often takes much more time than a free agent / waiver wire pickup as there is often negotiations that can span hours or days.It is not easy, and that's part of the reason I started writing Trader Joe's a few years ago.
 
I draft my teams as if I won't trade but trade a lot regardless. Like the heading says it all depends from league to league. Rules effect trading some leagues. Personallity effects trading some leagues. Some guys trade way way to much in some of my leagues. Others never trade! Some easy to deal with, some imposiible.

But what really irks me is the son of a #####es that ONLY GO FOR THE RAPE! They spend hours telling you how so and so with 3 pts will have more value then LT next year. Over and over and over. Then 5 years later is still at it with another rape offer. And what IRKS me worst is poor rookies that actually fall for there tatics!

I wish we had laws to kick em out built in. After so many times over so many years it gets old!

 

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