treatment of Whoopi Goldberg vs Roseanne Barre (1 Viewer)

[Stealthycat]

Anybody else see a massive difference in the way these two were treated for racist/hateful things that were said ?

Roseanne said "muslim brotherhood & planet of the apes had a baby = vj " referring to former Obama aide Valerie Jarrett. She apologized quickly, saying she'd taken medications (ambien) and tweeted trying to be funny etc. She'd remarked back in 2012 about Trayvon Martin, and her tweet then was hammered for insensitive

The fallout from that was ABC canceled “Roseanne” and she's been pretty much blackballed since

Whoopi said this

During the roundtable discussion, Goldberg said she was surprised that the nudity in "Maus" -- and not the Holocaust itself -- is what appeared to concern the school board, while co-host Joy Behar replied that the nudity concerns were likely "a canard to throw you off from the fact that they don't like history that makes White people look bad."

"Well, this is White people doing it to White people, so y'all gonna fight amongst yourselves," Goldberg said, referring to the Holocaust.

While none of the co-hosts pushed back after that statement, the conversation then turned to how some are attempting to ban problematic parts of the nation's history, particularly history dealing with race and racism, from being taught in schools.

Goldberg responded: "If you're going to do this, then let's be truthful about it because the Holocaust isn't about race." She added that the Holocaust, which saw an estimated 6 million Jews and 5 million others killed as a result of the Nazis' racist ideology, was about "man's inhumanity to man" and said it involved "two White groups of people."

Whoopi responded with an apology the next day

“On today’s show, I said the Holocaust ‘is not about race, but about man’s inhumanity to man,’” she said. “I should have said it is about both. As Jonathan Greenblatt from the Anti-Defamation League shared, ‘The Holocaust was about the Nazi’s systematic annihilation of the Jewish people — who they deemed to be an inferior race.’ I stand corrected.”

Whoopie was given two weeks off for her racist/hateful remarks, time to reflect.

Roseanne tweeted a short shot to someone in particular. Whoopi's remarks were detailed and calculated, well thought out. I find it hard to believe that Whoopi didn't know Jewish people are considered a race and that the Holocaust was a racial thing. 

But does anyone else see the differences in how a liberal woman like Whoopi is being treated so very differently than a conservative woman like Roseanne? 

 

[sho nuff]

What Roseanne said was far far worse.  Not even close.  Of course they were treated different.  One was hateful towards someone and quite racist in doing so.  One made some pretty ignorant comments in a way about Nazis and Jews...not really racist...not hateful towards anyone...just dumb.

It has zero to do with conservative vs. liberal.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

What Roseanne said was far far worse.  Not even close.  Of course they were treated different.  One was hateful towards someone and quite racist in doing so.  One made some pretty ignorant comments in a way about Nazis and Jews...not really racist...not hateful towards anyone...just dumb.

It has zero to do with conservative vs. liberal.

I don't think these two situations are comparable either, but I would not hang my hat on "Actually, all she did was downplay the Holocaust and who among us . . ."  

Come on.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't think these two situations are comparable either, but I would not hang my hat on "Actually, all she did was downplay the Holocaust and who among us . . ."  

Come on.

How did she downplay it? 

 

[sho nuff]

I don't think these two situations are comparable either, but I would not hang my hat on "Actually, all she did was downplay the Holocaust and who among us . . ."  

Come on.

Who hung their hat on that?  I didn't say that.  

 

[Ghost Rider]

How did she downplay it? 

By saying white people should just fight amongst themselves.  I am pretty sure it was not a fight. It was genocide. 

And I have zero love for Roseanne (never liked her or her show, always thought she was revolting), but what Whoopi said was awful. 

 

[jobarules]

Of course all the liberals are coming out saying the suspension of Whoopi was overkill. AOC said she apologized and shouldnt have been suspended. Its amazing the hypocritcal opinions of the liberals. Its ok to be woke and spew cancel culture when its a conservative saying something racist but spewing hate against Jewish people by a liberal is deemed apology worthy and not a fireable offense. Exhibit A = Nick Cannon.

EDIT: Yes I know Nick Cannon was fired but he was then re-hired by Viacom (after apologizing and taking sensitivity classes) and never lost his job on Fox. He was never "canceled".

 

[jobarules]

Any btw what Roseanne said was grotesque and she should have been fired especially since it wasnt a one time incident.

 

[supermike80]

I am in the camp of what Roseanne said was much worse

 

[Sabertooth]

By saying white people should just fight amongst themselves.  I am pretty sure it was not a fight. It was genocide. 

And I have zero love for Roseanne (never liked her or her show, always thought she was revolting), but what Whoopi said was awful. 

Was she talking about the other hosts or WW2?  
 

I don’t have a horse in this race either.  I don’t like either one.  I like Barr less because of the national anthem spitting incident.  Classless.  
Roseanne was a good show back in the day mainly because of John Goodman.  

Whoopi was good in Ghost.  I never really thought she was funny though.  

 

[Ghost Rider]

I am in the camp of what Roseanne said was much worse

What Whoopi said was pretty awful, but I agree that what Roseanne said was worse. 

 

[supermike80]

What Whoopi said was pretty awful, but I agree that what Roseanne said was worse. 

And I think a 2 week suspension was a very appropriate response by the network for those comments. IF it was unpaid.  I haven't seen any comment on whether she gets paid for this vacation

 

[Summer Wheat]

Of course all the liberals are coming out saying the suspension of Whoopi was overkill. AOC said she apologized and shouldnt have been suspended. Its amazing the hypocritcal opinions of the liberals. Its ok to be woke and spew cancel culture when its a conservative saying something racist but spewing hate against Jewish people by a liberal is deemed apology worthy and not a fireable offense. Exhibit A = Nick Cannon.

Never thought Roseanne was funny to begin with.

The bar has been set and Whoopi had to take the fall.

Whoopi is ignorant and uneducated on the subject matter, should she be suspended for that?  In today's day and age, it does not matter so yes.

 

[knowledge dropper]

Both deserve full cancellation based upon the rules of the game.  

 

[HellToupee]

Now let’s talk about Gina Carano……..

 

[jobarules]

Now let’s talk about Gina Carano……..

Bingo 

 

[HellToupee]

And I think a 2 week suspension was a very appropriate response by the network for those comments. IF it was unpaid.  I haven't seen any comment on whether she gets paid for this vacation

The 2nd round is why she should get the door. They gave her a lifeline and she blew it

 

[massraider]

I forgot how awful Roseanne's statement was. 

We don't really know what will happen to Whoopi yet, do we? Seems like preemptive whataboutism is dumb. And boring. 

 

[Summer Wheat]

This is shocking.  Don Lemon defends Whoopi!

The "Don Lemon Tonight" anchor said that those on the left must continue an alliance with one another even if there’s been internal wrongdoing.

"In this environment, we have to be allies to each other," he said. "Sometimes your allies say stupid things. Sometimes they say dumb things. But guess what? They’re your allies. They’re at least on our side.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG SUSPENDED FROM ‘THE VIEW’ FOLLOWING HOLOCAUST REMARKS 

"We have to stop trying to cancel people and shouting down our allies," Lemon added.  

 

[jobarules]

This is shocking.  Don Lemon defends Whoopi!

The "Don Lemon Tonight" anchor said that those on the left must continue an alliance with one another even if there’s been internal wrongdoing.

"In this environment, we have to be allies to each other," he said. "Sometimes your allies say stupid things. Sometimes they say dumb things. But guess what? They’re your allies. They’re at least on our side.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG SUSPENDED FROM ‘THE VIEW’ FOLLOWING HOLOCAUST REMARKS 

"We have to stop trying to cancel people and shouting down our allies," Lemon added.  

Lmfao can't believe he said that out loud

 

[Juxtatarot]

Saying an African American looks like an ape is quite bad.

 

[Sabertooth]

Bingo 

Who?  

 

[dgreen]

This is shocking.  Don Lemon defends Whoopi!

The "Don Lemon Tonight" anchor said that those on the left must continue an alliance with one another even if there’s been internal wrongdoing.

"In this environment, we have to be allies to each other," he said. "Sometimes your allies say stupid things. Sometimes they say dumb things. But guess what? They’re your allies. They’re at least on our side.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG SUSPENDED FROM ‘THE VIEW’ FOLLOWING HOLOCAUST REMARKS 

"We have to stop trying to cancel people and shouting down our allies," Lemon added.  

Who does he consider allies? Is the assumption that he's only talking about liberals?

 

[Summer Wheat]

Who does he consider allies? Is the assumption that he's only talking about liberals?

No, he probably means Fox News.

 

[Boston]

The side of this that that doesn't get discussed is not that it was offensive but the fact she didn't even understand what she was saying incorrect and she was going to the mat that she was correct...that doesn't make her an anti-semite and I really don't think she should be suspended but it does show you that she is another celebrity who lives in a bubble and due to that is arrogant and has difficulty knowing when to shut up.

 

[squistion]

Who does he consider allies? Is the assumption that he's only talking about liberals?

  Yes.

 

[Stealthycat]

Never thought Roseanne was funny to begin with.

The bar has been set and Whoopi had to take the fall.

Whoopi is ignorant and uneducated on the subject matter, should she be suspended for that?  In today's day and age, it does not matter so yes.

I never thought Roseanne was funny either

If Whoopi doesn't even understand what the Holocaust was and that Jewish people are a race - how in the WORLD can she have a seat on the View? 

 

[Boston]

This is shocking.  Don Lemon defends Whoopi!

The "Don Lemon Tonight" anchor said that those on the left must continue an alliance with one another even if there’s been internal wrongdoing.

"In this environment, we have to be allies to each other," he said. "Sometimes your allies say stupid things. Sometimes they say dumb things. But guess what? They’re your allies. They’re at least on our side.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG SUSPENDED FROM ‘THE VIEW’ FOLLOWING HOLOCAUST REMARKS 

"We have to stop trying to cancel people and shouting down our allies," Lemon added.  

Wow...most honest thing Don Lemon has ever said...I actually applaud him for doing this instead of pretending he's not.

 

[Godsbrother]

I have zero interest in how these two or any other celebrity is treated by the media or public after saying or tweeting stupid stuff.   There is a price to be paid for being a celebrity and sometimes you just need to be smart enough to keep your mouth shut.

I will say that in Goldberg's case she is on a show where the whole point is to voice your opinion but even with that you have to be careful what you say.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This is shocking.  Don Lemon defends Whoopi!

The "Don Lemon Tonight" anchor said that those on the left must continue an alliance with one another even if there’s been internal wrongdoing.

"In this environment, we have to be allies to each other," he said. "Sometimes your allies say stupid things. Sometimes they say dumb things. But guess what? They’re your allies. They’re at least on our side.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG SUSPENDED FROM ‘THE VIEW’ FOLLOWING HOLOCAUST REMARKS 

"We have to stop trying to cancel people and shouting down our allies," Lemon added.  

Do you have a link for that?

 

[Sabertooth]

We have to be careful to cancel only those opposed to us.  That should go without saying.   
 

 

[Summer Wheat]

Do you have a link for that?

Microsoft News Feed.     I will look at work right now.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

This is shocking.  Don Lemon defends Whoopi!

The "Don Lemon Tonight" anchor said that those on the left must continue an alliance with one another even if there’s been internal wrongdoing.

"In this environment, we have to be allies to each other," he said. "Sometimes your allies say stupid things. Sometimes they say dumb things. But guess what? They’re your allies. They’re at least on our side.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG SUSPENDED FROM ‘THE VIEW’ FOLLOWING HOLOCAUST REMARKS 

"We have to stop trying to cancel people and shouting down our allies," Lemon added.  

but not shocking. Not even surprising really 

 

[massraider]

The side of this that that doesn't get discussed is not that it was offensive but the fact she didn't even understand what she was saying incorrect and she was going to the mat that she was correct...that doesn't make her an anti-semite and I really don't think she should be suspended but it does show you that she is another celebrity who lives in a bubble and due to that is arrogant and has difficulty knowing when to shut up.

You host a TV show. The Holocaust comes up. You have seen this play out before. How do you not know to keep your mouth shut?

 

[Caveman33]

Of course all the liberals are coming out saying the suspension of Whoopi was overkill. AOC said she apologized and shouldnt have been suspended. Its amazing the hypocritcal opinions of the liberals. Its ok to be woke and spew cancel culture when its a conservative saying something racist but spewing hate against Jewish people by a liberal is deemed apology worthy and not a fireable offense. Exhibit A = Nick Cannon.

EDIT: Yes I know Nick Cannon was fired but he was then re-hired by Viacom (after apologizing and taking sensitivity classes) and never lost his job on Fox. He was never "canceled".

Whoopi's comments seem like an innocent confusion between race, religion, and ethnicity.  Not comparable to Roseanne at all.  You made a better comparison with Nick Cannon.  His racist ideas were well developed and thought out.  Maybe there is some validity to his thoughts?  I don't know.  Discrimination is a problem but racism might just be reality and I understand that reality can lead to discrimination.

There are too many phonies in this world.  I like hearing people's real thoughts even if they differ from mine.  

 

[Stealthycat]

Whoopi's comments seem like an innocent confusion between race, religion, and ethnicity. 

how can such a well connect, well traveled, well in the know person on a political tv show not understand what the Holocaust was or who the Jewish people are ?  Her comments were well thought out I thought

 

[Zow]

Doesn't matter. Private employers are free to discipline (or whatever term you want to use) their employees provided less do so without discriminating against a protected class with immutable characteristics. 

Just like the Rogan thread, this thread whiffs on the relevant issue at hand and promotes irrelevant discussion. 

 

[turnjose7]

I don't have much opinion on whether the response to either of these ladies was appropriate or not. I do find it interesting that this thread was started by a poster who claims to rarely watch TV and to not concern himself with the behavior and statements of public figures.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

But does anyone else see the differences in how a liberal woman like Whoopi is being treated so very differently than a conservative woman like Roseanne? 

Roseanne compared blacks to apes.  Whoopi glossed over anti-semitism as a "white on white issue".  

It's should not be surprising that moderates recoil in horror over the first comment, versus shaking their head in sadness at the second comment.

Technically speaking, the second comment is "as bad as" the first, since it equates to "I don't really care about millions of whites dying" but the first comment is more crass on its face, so this is not a case of "poor conservatives being picked on disproportionately".

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Doesn't matter. Private employers are free to discipline (or whatever term you want to use) their employees provided less do so without discriminating against a protected class with immutable characteristics. 

Just like the Rogan thread, this thread whiffs on the relevant issue at hand and promotes irrelevant discussion. 

No, it's that nobody disagrees with the bolded statement.

The relevant issue is whether employers ought to discipline their employees in cases like this, not whether they have the right to do so.

 

[Juxtatarot]

how can such a well connect, well traveled, well in the know person on a political tv show not understand what the Holocaust was or who the Jewish people are ?  Her comments were well thought out I thought

Do most Americans today view Jewish people as a race of people separate from white, black, Asian, etc.?

 

[Stealthycat]

Do most Americans today view Jewish people as a race of people separate from white, black, Asian, etc.?

I don't know about "most" but a decorated Hollywood woke person like Whoopi on a political show I think should 

 

[dgreen]

Roseanne compared blacks to apes.  Whoopi glossed over anti-semitism as a "white on white issue".  

It's should not be surprising that moderates recoil in horror over the first comment, versus shaking their head in sadness at the second comment.

Technically speaking, the second comment is "as bad as" the first, since it equates to "I don't really care about millions of whites dying" but the first comment is more crass on its face, so this is not a case of "poor conservatives being picked on disproportionately".

I didn't get that at all from what Whoopi said. But, I've also only seen clipped videos and may not know the full context.

 

[Stealthycat]

Roseanne compared blacks to apes.  Whoopi glossed over anti-semitism as a "white on white issue".  

It's should not be surprising that moderates recoil in horror over the first comment, versus shaking their head in sadness at the second comment.

Technically speaking, the second comment is "as bad as" the first, since it equates to "I don't really care about millions of whites dying" but the first comment is more crass on its face, so this is not a case of "poor conservatives being picked on disproportionately".

 Valerie Jarrett isn't black 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Do most Americans today view Jewish people as a race of people separate from white, black, Asian, etc.?

Generally speaking a form which contains race as a question for some form of government data gathering would include

• White
  
• Black or African American
  
• American Indian or Alaska Native
  
• Asian
  
• Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
  

So this is a case where Whoopi is correct in a certain technical sense.  But she is still wrong in the sense of the word would be used in the context of the Holocaust.  

ETA:  Correct in that Jewish isn't normally considered an option for race questions.  I don't know how the average person of Jewish descent would check these boxes so maybe wrong about being "white".

 

[Zow]

No, it's that nobody disagrees with the bolded statement.

The relevant issue is whether employers ought to discipline their employees in cases like this, not whether they have the right to do so.

I find that issue it be irrelevant to meaningless in a capitalistic society.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Generally speaking a form which contains race as a question for some form of government data gathering would include

• White
  
• Black or African American
  
• American Indian or Alaska Native
  
• Asian
  
• Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
  

So this is a case where Whoopi is correct in a certain technical sense.  But she is still wrong in the sense of the word would be used in the context of the Holocaust.  

Here is a good article that I read the other day.  I was also confused before reading this.

https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/deep-shtetl/61f992de9277230021ae11f7/are-jews-a-race-whoopi-goldberg-holocaust/

 

[Juxtatarot]

Generally speaking a form which contains race as a question for some form of government data gathering would include

• White
  
• Black or African American
  
• American Indian or Alaska Native
  
• Asian
  
• Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
  

So this is a case where Whoopi is correct in a certain technical sense.  But she is still wrong in the sense of the word would be used in the context of the Holocaust.  

Yes, agreed. It seems to be different today than it was in Europe in 1940. It seemed like Stealthy Cat view is different than this which prompted my question. Maybe I misunderstood him.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I find that issue it be irrelevant to meaningless in a capitalistic society.

Why?  The is-ought distinction predated capitalism and is still with us.

For example, I can go to certain parts of Nevada and legally have sex with a prostitute.  There is absolutely no dispute whatsoever over whether I have the right to do that.  My wife has rather strong views about whether I ought to exercise that right, and I don't think I should try to explain to her that her views on the subject aren't relevant.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Here is a good article that I read the other day.  I was also confused before reading this.

https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/deep-shtetl/61f992de9277230021ae11f7/are-jews-a-race-whoopi-goldberg-holocaust/

Yes it is a good, quick read.  I think an important point from your link is "Race is a social construct" while lots of people think of race as some form of scientific categorization (outside of social sciences).  But 

Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society. While partially based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.