treatment of Whoopi Goldberg vs Roseanne Barre (1 Viewer)

[Pickle Rody]

If Obama and Jarrett identified as white, would you say they are white?

My mother is Hispanic, my Dad is white.   What should I be called?

Whatever you want to be called. Let it be known and so it shall be.

 

[Stealthycat]

Um, that’s very much NOT what I’m doing. The reason I say Obama, Jarrett et al are Black is because they identify as Black. What is your basis for stating categorically that Jarrett is not Black?

is black a race or a skin color ?

we don't know is Obama, Jarrett or anyone self identifies today as black - maybe years ago they did but today they might not, right ?

I personally dislike the whole black/white/skin color thing anyway ... and Roseanne tweeting what she did was making fun of the way the woman looked I guess? poor taste, bad joke, maybe it was Ambient ..... but Whoopi? she'd thought about what she said, she was directly insulting Holocaust victims and Jewish people

I think that is grounds for firing and not all that much different than Whoopi. Seems the liberal side of this board if ok with Whoopi, not Roseanne and the conservative side isn't ok with either

 

[Stealthycat]

My mother is Hispanic, my Dad is white.   What should I be called?

I personally like Identifying as American then my heritage - like me, I'm American with German heritage (and a motley other mix too) I can never self identify as a man with Nigerian heritage. Our DNA isn't a self assigned identification 

for instance you could say American with Columbian and Irish/German heritage if you knew that was your heritage

 

[Stealthycat]

Yeah, I don't get that mindset either. I remember in the Colin Kaepernick thread, that SC and a few others were saying that Kaep was not qualified to speak out about racism against black people because he was half white. 

oh I never ever said that - stop that right now

he can speak out all he wants to, just understand  Kap is 1/2 white, just as much white as black, raised by white people and to ignore 1/2 his heritage? that's actually racist IMO and totally disrespecting his maternal side and saying he's oppressed etc isn't accurate

again, we are what our DNA says we are - its not a self identification we can choose (like Rachel Dolezal) 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

is black a race or a skin color ?

we don't know is Obama, Jarrett or anyone self identifies today as black - maybe years ago they did but today they might not, right ?

I personally dislike the whole black/white/skin color thing anyway ... and Roseanne tweeting what she did was making fun of the way the woman looked I guess? poor taste, bad joke, maybe it was Ambient ..... but Whoopi? she'd thought about what she said, she was directly insulting Holocaust victims and Jewish people

I think that is grounds for firing and not all that much different than Whoopi. Seems the liberal side of this board if ok with Whoopi, not Roseanne and the conservative side isn't ok with either

Seems like a lot of verbiage to dance around the fact that you categorically declared Jarret's racial identity based on ... well, I'm not really sure. 

Also, the idea that Americans don't get to self-declare their racial identity is literally untrue. Every 10 years we get to fill out a census form that asks us to select what race we are. Nobody shows up afterward to take a DNA sample and force us to prove our identity. And they certainly don't show up at your house and ask for your opinion on other people.

 

[Caveman33]

oh I never ever said that - stop that right now

he can speak out all he wants to, just understand  Kap is 1/2 white, just as much white as black, raised by white people and to ignore 1/2 his heritage? that's actually racist IMO and totally disrespecting his maternal side and saying he's oppressed etc isn't accurate

again, we are what our DNA says we are - its not a self identification we can choose (like Rachel Dolezal) 

By the year 2050, Rachel Dolezal will be celebrated for having been persecuted as a transracial pioneer.  Towns will build statues and name schools after her.  It's easier for me to relate to feeling transracial than transgender and I'm not sure why one would be more socially accepted than the other.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

My mother is Hispanic, my Dad is white.   What should I be called?

When the census forms were filled out, what race did your mom select?  Or you for that matter?

Hispanic is kind of like Jewish when it comes to race as in not having a box to check

 

[Stealthycat]

Seems like a lot of verbiage to dance around the fact that you categorically declared Jarret's racial identity based on ... well, I'm not really sure. 

I don't believe people have racial identity - their DNA and racial background is what it is - Dolezal can't choose it, Jarret can't choose it, Kap can't choose it. Their genetics are what they are. I can't choose mine either

 

[Summer Wheat]

I would have thought "whatever the hell you want" was a clear enough standard, but to remove any ambiguity, yes, if Valerie Jarrett said she identified as white, I would say she was white.

Now let me turn around and ask you for a similarly direct, yes-or-no answer: Do you agree with SC's statement that "Valerie Jarrett isn't black"?

No.  If she has one white parent and one black parent, would be half white race and half black race.

 

[Stealthycat]

By the year 2050, Rachel Dolezal will be celebrated for having been persecuted as a transracial pioneer.  Towns will build statues and name schools after her.  It's easier for me to relate to feeling transracial than transgender and I'm not sure why one would be more socially accepted than the other.

and when that happens, a human can self identify as a cat and we'll have to put litter boxes instead of bathrooms 

 

[Caveman33]

and when that happens, a human can self identify as a cat and we'll have to put litter boxes instead of bathrooms 

Lol.  The woke mob railroaded Dolezal but we already have people who are accepted as transracial.  They are those who are adopted by parents of another race.  Dolezal was raised by white parents but at some point in her life she found purpose and love within the black community.  I don't know what caused this but I don't think there was ever anything malicious in her self-identity.  

 

[Stealthycat]

Lol.  The woke mob railroaded Dolezal but we already have people who are accepted as transracial.  They are those who are adopted by parents of another race.  Dolezal was raised by white parents but at some point in her life she found purpose and love within the black community.  I don't know what caused this but I don't think there was ever anything malicious in her self-identity.  

and to be clear, I don't care that Dolezal wanted to be this or that or whatever, let her do what she wants to do

but she can't change her genetics/DNA, she can't be something she literally isn't but I support her doing everything she did I suppose ... but she can't claim she's a dog, or a cat .... or black either

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I don't believe people have racial identity - their DNA and racial background is what it is - Dolezal can't choose it, Jarret can't choose it, Kap can't choose it. Their genetics are what they are. I can't choose mine either

The United States Census disagrees with you.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

No.  If she has one white parent and one black parent, would be half white race and half black race.

OK, so what about Sasha and Malia Obama? They have three black grandparents and one white one. Are they allowed to call themselves Black? What is the threshold percentage?

You see where going down this road gets you. There's a reason that historically, the governments who have been most interested in classifying their citizens based on parsing their genetic backgrounds have been the ones most interested in discriminating against those groups (Nazis, Jim Crow South, South Africa's apartheid government, etc.) It's really hard to do, so the only ones motivated to do it are the ones who need it to maintain their repressive systems.

 

[Summer Wheat]

OK, so what about Sasha and Malia Obama? They have three black grandparents and one white one. Are they allowed to call themselves Black? What is the threshold percentage?

You see where going down this road gets you. There's a reason that historically, the governments who have been most interested in classifying their citizens based on parsing their genetic backgrounds have been the ones most interested in discriminating against those groups (Nazis, Jim Crow South, South Africa's apartheid government, etc.) It's really hard to do, so the only ones motivated to do it are the ones who need it to maintain their repressive systems.

You can call yourself whatever you want. The % is what your DNA is.

Barack is 50% white, 50% black,  his children would have more black DNA ,but still have some of their grandmothers white DNA. And down the line. 

Malia Obama has been dating a white guy for years so if they have children it will flip the DNA again.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

You can call yourself whatever you want. The % is what your DNA is.

OK, but why is the percentage of DNA so important?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

and to be clear, I don't care that Dolezal wanted to be this or that or whatever, let her do what she wants to do

but she can't change her genetics/DNA, she can't be something she literally isn't but I support her doing everything she did I suppose ... but she can't claim she's a dog, or a cat .... or black either

Genetics and DNA are biology, the one place that it has been demonstrated that there is only one human race.  So, whether or not she can change her DNA (actually she can) is irrelevant.  Race is a social construct, not a function of DNA.

 

[Stealthycat]

The United States Census disagrees with you.

can I identify as a non-citizen ?

 

[Stealthycat]

Genetics and DNA are biology, the one place that it has been demonstrated that there is only one human race.  So, whether or not she can change her DNA (actually she can) is irrelevant.  Race is a social construct, not a function of DNA.

so you are okay with Dolezal identifying as black ?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

so you are okay with Dolezal identifying as black ?

To defraud (or ethically equivalent) somebody (or somebodies) then of course not.  Otherwise, what business is it of anyone, especially mine?  I care so much I had to google to see who it was that bothered you so much.  But like all of your replies this has absolutely nothing to do with anything I posted.

 

[Stealthycat]

To defraud (or ethically equivalent) somebody (or somebodies) then of course not.  Otherwise, what business is it of anyone, especially mine?  I care so much I had to google to see who it was that bothered you so much.  But like all of your replies this has absolutely nothing to do with anything I posted.

if its defrauding if a white woman wants to self identify as black ... then so too is it when a man wants to be a woman and a or a woman wants to be a man etc 

either anyone and everyone can choose/self identify or nobody can and yes, its absolutely along the lines of "social construct" because that can change easily, its not set in stone, it is tired to current trends and popularity etc and there is no consistency to it nor is there anything factual or solid

People also ask

What is the definition of a person's race?

Race is defined as “a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits.” The term ethnicities is more broadly defined as “large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background.” ... Ethnicities share a cultural background.Feb 22, 2019

I submit the above as proof Dolezal is indeed black. Her hair, skin color, her actions .... all make her a black woman. Do they not ?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

if its defrauding if a white woman wants to self identify as black ... then so too is it when a man wants to be a woman and a or a woman wants to be a man etc 

either anyone and everyone can choose/self identify or nobody can and yes, its absolutely along the lines of "social construct" because that can change easily, its not set in stone, it is tired to current trends and popularity etc and there is no consistency to it nor is there anything factual or solid

People also ask

What is the definition of a person's race?

Race is defined as “a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits.” The term ethnicities is more broadly defined as “large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background.” ... Ethnicities share a cultural background.Feb 22, 2019

I submit the above as proof Dolezal is indeed black. Her hair, skin color, her actions .... all make her a black woman. Do they not ?

No one said it was " defrauding if a white woman wants to self identify as black".  No one!

But keep on showing your true colors!  Since my point isn't to categorize you for those that still haven't figured it out but to point out that the Human Genome Project has identified the races in our DNA as being just one human race.   External traits on a relatively handful of genes that might be geographically shared are not reflective of the other 99+% of genes. 

So, I think to be excellent I need to be done.    

 

[Caveman33]

No one said it was " defrauding if a white woman wants to self identify as black".  No one!

But keep on showing your true colors!  Since my point isn't to categorize you for those that still haven't figured it out but to point out that the Human Genome Project has identified the races in our DNA as being just one human race.   External traits on a relatively handful of genes that might be geographically shared are not reflective of the other 99+% of genes. 

So, I think to be excellent I need to be done.    

Your response to his question "so you are okay with Dolezal identifying as black ?" began with "To defraud (or ethically equivalent) somebody (or somebodies) then of course not."

What did you mean by that response as it pertains to Dolezal?

 

[Stealthycat]

No one said it was " defrauding if a white woman wants to self identify as black".  No one!

then who is being defrauded with people like Dolezal ? what were you saying then if I misunderstood ?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Your response to his question "so you are okay with Dolezal identifying as black ?" began with "To defraud (or ethically equivalent) somebody (or somebodies) then of course not."

What did you mean by that response as it pertains to Dolezal?

I mean there is a difference between identifying as something for personal reasons and claiming something to fraudulently get some gain.  Sure there are at least two case we have discussed over the years where both might be true or at least debatable, which would include Dolezal (and Elizabeth Warren). 

I don't know what @Summer Wheat or his Hispanic mother looks like, but even if I did why should I care beyond curiosity and a desire to understand their thoughts what box they check on the census form?  Or go around identifying themselves as?   

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

then who is being defrauded with people like Dolezal ? what were you saying then if I misunderstood ?

Nobody needs to have been defrauded.  The way you worded the question above suggests that to identify as black despite having two white parents necessitates fraud.  It does not!  Might be hard to grasp but that doesn't make it automatic.

But the debate about Dolezal was in part that she gained various positions academically and with the NAACP by fraud.   That is the debate.  Which makes this a muddied example at best.

 

[Stealthycat]

Nobody needs to have been defrauded.  The way you worded the question above suggests that to identify as black despite having two white parents necessitates fraud.  It does not!  Might be hard to grasp but that doesn't make it automatic.

But the debate about Dolezal was in part that she gained various positions academically and with the NAACP by fraud.   That is the debate.  Which makes this a muddied example at best.

you suggested it - not me, your words, not mine

I am on record as saying Dolezal can believe she's black, or a feline or a parrot or whatever, but that doesn't make it so, and we can look at her genetics/DNA/racial heritage to know and personal gain or not, that's the biological facts/truths