What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Trump And The Vaccine - A New Angle? (1 Viewer)

ekbeats

Footballguy
I disagree a bit with you on this.  Trump tried to straddle the fence on this issue.  You had Scientists and Fauci encouraging (and begging) everyone to take the vaccine.  He had already made Fauci enemy number 1.

Trump did not tell anyone to not get vaccinated, but I would like to compare the number of times he encouraged vaccinations compared to leaders from other countries.  I would think he encouraged vaccinations less than 1% of what someone like Justin Trudeau and other leaders did.  

Do you not believe that the US is less vaccinated compared to most other Western countries because Trump did not encourage vaccinations enough?
Trump encouraged people to get the vaccine while he was President.  The msm not only didn’t report it, but they wrongly stated the opposite - including Rachel Maddow.  Other examples:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-encourages-americans-to-take-covid-19-vaccines-to-new-york-post-2021-4?op=1
 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-urges-all-americans-to-get-covid-vaccine-its-a-safe-vaccine

The vaccines were Trump’s greatest accomplishment.  He deserves credit for it.

 

massraider

Footballguy
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1474473371391995908?t=kYdpolWgXxx-BLqhSkf8Dg&s=19

Candace Owens, who recently interviewed Trump, and must have missed the part where Trump has been pushing the vaccine, is posting panicked videos from what appears to be her bedroom closet. Trump doesn't understand the internet, he's just confused, and she believes he needs to have a conversation with someone. 

Alex Jones had thoughts:

Alex Jones: “This is an emergency Christmas Day warning to Pres Trump. You are either completely ignorant .. or you are one of the most evil men who ever lived .. What you told Candace Owens is nothing but a raft of dirty lies.” https://t.co/rNCNdvgNrm

 

zoonation

Footballguy
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1474473371391995908?t=kYdpolWgXxx-BLqhSkf8Dg&s=19

Candace Owens, who recently interviewed Trump, and must have missed the part where Trump has been pushing the vaccine, is posting panicked videos from what appears to be her bedroom closet. Trump doesn't understand the internet, he's just confused, and she believes he needs to have a conversation with someone. 

Alex Jones had thoughts:

Alex Jones: “This is an emergency Christmas Day warning to Pres Trump. You are either completely ignorant .. or you are one of the most evil men who ever lived .. What you told Candace Owens is nothing but a raft of dirty lies.” https://t.co/rNCNdvgNrm
Ignorance eventually feeds on itself?

 

bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1474473371391995908?t=kYdpolWgXxx-BLqhSkf8Dg&s=19

Candace Owens, who recently interviewed Trump, and must have missed the part where Trump has been pushing the vaccine, is posting panicked videos from what appears to be her bedroom closet. Trump doesn't understand the internet, he's just confused, and she believes he needs to have a conversation with someone. 

Alex Jones had thoughts:

Alex Jones: “This is an emergency Christmas Day warning to Pres Trump. You are either completely ignorant .. or you are one of the most evil men who ever lived .. What you told Candace Owens is nothing but a raft of dirty lies.” https://t.co/rNCNdvgNrm
Wow. Just wow. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Alex Jones: “This is an emergency Christmas Day warning to Pres Trump. You are either completely ignorant .. or you are one of the most evil men who ever lived .. What you told Candace Owens is nothing but a raft of dirty lies.” https://t.co/rNCNdvgNrm


Back to the "If I were advising Trump for 2024" thing, I'd see distancing from Alex Jones as a good thing. 

 

timschochet

Footballguy
Back to the "If I were advising Trump for 2024" thing, I'd see distancing from Alex Jones as a good thing. 
This is absolutely true. And I also agree with your perspective about Trump’s messaging and how his recent emphasis on the vaccine will help him if he runs in 2024. 

But I don’t think it’s going to help him THAT much. Trump’s main problem is that he is such a polarizing figure. Back in 2016 he was still a new alternative to the establishment politicians on both sides, and enough people who liked parts of his message were willing to give him a chance. But by now there are very few people who don’t have a set, firm opinion about Donald Trump one way or another. Just as the January 6 committee hearings probably won’t hurt Trump much, his rebranding of himself as vaccine savior probably won’t help him much, and for the same reason: when it comes to Trump, everybody has already made up their minds and will be very difficult to sway otherwise. 

 

Rich Conway

Footballguy
Back to the "If I were advising Trump for 2024" thing, I'd see distancing from Alex Jones as a good thing. 
I'm with @timschochet on this.  I'm not sure this helps much and it could even hurt.  Conservatives like @jm192 and @IvanKaramazov likely won't vote for Trump under any circumstances because they know how dangerous he is to democracy.  Trump needs the Alex Jones and Q base to vote for him to have any hope of winning.  Sure, those folks aren't voting D, but there's certainly a chance that Trump turns them off and they choose not to vote at all.

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
This is absolutely true. And I also agree with your perspective about Trump’s messaging and how his recent emphasis on the vaccine will help him if he runs in 2024. 

But I don’t think it’s going to help him THAT much. Trump’s main problem is that he is such a polarizing figure. Back in 2016 he was still a new alternative to the establishment politicians on both sides, and enough people who liked parts of his message were willing to give him a chance. But by now there are very few people who don’t have a set, firm opinion about Donald Trump one way or another. Just as the January 6 committee hearings probably won’t hurt Trump much, his rebranding of himself as vaccine savior probably won’t help him much, and for the same reason: when it comes to Trump, everybody has already made up their minds and will be very difficult to sway otherwise. 


I fully accept much of why I think this is purely anecdotal experience and my friend group, but I disagree strongly as I think it does matter.

I know a lot of people who are life long Republicans who "held their nose" and voted for Trump as "the lesser of two bad choices". And a big part of that was a perceived ambivalence or even negative take towards the vaccine. Sure, he talked about it some but it wasn't a focus. 

I'd call those people I know voters that were once solidly in the Republican nominee camp but now are drifting away. In other words, they're up for grabs now more than they've ever been. A change on this position for Trump would be seen as a big positive to them. And I don't discount that. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
I'm with @timschochet on this.  I'm not sure this helps much and it could even hurt.  Conservatives like @jm192 and @IvanKaramazov likely won't vote for Trump under any circumstances because they know how dangerous he is to democracy.  Trump needs the Alex Jones and Q base to vote for him to have any hope of winning.  Sure, those folks aren't voting D, but there's certainly a chance that Trump turns them off and they choose not to vote at all.


Sure anything is possible. But I'd put a lot more stock in the relatively handful of Alex Jones supporters accepting Trump as better than the alternative (like many progressives did with Biden in 2020) than I would them just sitting out and letting it go however it goes. 

I also would not discount the positive that comes with distancing from Alex Jones. That's the last thing Democrats want to see from a strategy angle. 

 

timschochet

Footballguy
I'm with @timschochet on this.  I'm not sure this helps much and it could even hurt.  Conservatives like @jm192 and @IvanKaramazov likely won't vote for Trump under any circumstances because they know how dangerous he is to democracy.  Trump needs the Alex Jones and Q base to vote for him to have any hope of winning.  Sure, those folks aren't voting D, but there's certainly a chance that Trump turns them off and they choose not to vote at all.
Well you’re not quite with me on this because I agree with Joe to the extent that it can’t hurt him. Alex Jones can’t convince Trump’s base to abandon him. All Alex Jones can do by criticizing Trump is further marginalize himself- there is no where to go. Trump will always do just fine with the MAGA crowd, and any distance from the Alex Jones types will surely help him with independents. 
 

My point is that when it comes to Donald Trump, there just aren’t a lot of independents left, if any. 

 

Rich Conway

Footballguy
Sure anything is possible. But I'd put a lot more stock in the relatively handful of Alex Jones supporters accepting Trump as better than the alternative (like many progressives did with Biden in 2020) than I would them just sitting out and letting it go however it goes. 

I also would not discount the positive that comes with distancing from Alex Jones. That's the last thing Democrats want to see from a strategy angle. 
I think you vastly underestimate the number of Q lunatics out there.  It's not dozens or hundreds.  It's hundreds of thousands, maybe millions.

On the opposite end, I'm having a hard time coming up with the profile of a person who would vote for Trump because vaccines but otherwise wouldn't have.

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Well you’re not quite with me on this because I agree with Joe to the extent that it can’t hurt him. Alex Jones can’t convince Trump’s base to abandon him. All Alex Jones can do by criticizing Trump is further marginalize himself- there is no where to go. Trump will always do just fine with the MAGA crowd, and any distance from the Alex Jones types will surely help him with independents. 


Totally agree.

 

timschochet

Footballguy
I fully accept much of why I think this is purely anecdotal experience and my friend group, but I disagree strongly as I think it does matter.

I know a lot of people who are life long Republicans who "held their nose" and voted for Trump as "the lesser of two bad choices". And a big part of that was a perceived ambivalence or even negative take towards the vaccine. Sure, he talked about it some but it wasn't a focus. 

I'd call those people I know voters that were once solidly in the Republican nominee camp but now are drifting away. In other words, they're up for grabs now more than they've ever been. A change on this position for Trump would be seen as a big positive to them. And I don't discount that. 
You said they already voted for Trump before, right? Albeit hesitantly. So now they will be more enthused to vote for him again. How does this help him? I’m having trouble understanding, 

Also, don’t you live in Tennessee? That’s a red state so we can assume that if Trump is the Republican nominee he will win it. Again how does this help him in 2024? 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
On the opposite end, I'm having a hard time coming up with the profile of a person who would vote for Trump because vaccines but otherwise wouldn't have.


Interesting. I know lots of them. They're long time thoughtful Republicans. Were glad to have voted for George Bush and W Bush. And were distraught to see the party move the way it did. Some enough to change their voting. They're doctors and attorneys and engineers and are strongly pro vaccine. 

For all them, Trump moving to much stronger pro vaccine position is a large positive. 

It doesn't fit with the narrative that every Trump voter is a MAGA rally dude rocking his AR15 to church. But I think it covers a lot of people. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
You said they already voted for Trump before, right? Albeit hesitantly. So now they will be more enthused to vote for him again. How does this help him? I’m having trouble understanding, 


Some would have voted for the Republican candidate and did not because of Trump.

Again, I know it's more fun to paint every Trump voter as an enthusiastic rabid fanboy. But in my experience, I know a ton of lukewarm Trump voters. Again, just my personal experience. 

 

timschochet

Footballguy
Trump doesn’t need to attract disaffected Republicans who voted for him anyhow in 2020 because they would never vote for a Democrat. To win Trump needs NEW people to vote for him. And that’s the problem: there just aren’t that many. (Oh there will be tons of new voters in 2024 but demographics suggest they will be young and very progressive. I think it’s unlikely that many will be Trump voters.) 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Trump doesn’t need to attract disaffected Republicans who voted for him anyhow in 2020 because they would never vote for a Democrat.


This is where we disagree.

If you can accept the idea not every Trump voter is a rabid supporter, this gets much easier to understand. 

 

timschochet

Footballguy
This is where we disagree.

If you can accept the idea not every Trump voter is a rabid supporter, this gets much easier to understand. 
Of course I accept that. Like you I know plenty of Trump voters who did so reluctantly. And some who stayed at home in 2020. 

But what you’re suggesting is that there could be enough of the ones who stayed home last time that, because of Trump’s new messaging, will come out and vote for him this time around, and that could turn the tide in the key swing states he lost: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc. anything’s possible but I doubt it. Because the exit polling from last year suggests that while there were plenty of reluctant Trump voters who voted for him anyhow (like your friends), there were far less who didn’t vote at all. Trump did extremely well with Republicans and conservatives; he got far more votes from them in 2020 than he did in 2016. So I don’t know where these new voters are coming from. 
 

IMO, Trump’s best chance in 2014 is not that he will get more voters, but that the Democrats will get less: that Democrats, disheartened by the last 4 years, will stay at home. And IMO, this is very likely to happen so long as the Republican candidate is anyone but Donald Trump. But if it’s Trump, it won’t happen; Democrats will rise up anyhow. 

 

squistion

Footballguy
ekbeats said:
Trump encouraged people to get the vaccine while he was President.  The msm not only didn’t report it, but they wrongly stated the opposite - including Rachel Maddow.  Other examples:


From the link:

"MSNBC did not offer comment for this fact-check. But after PolitiFact reached out, Maddow showed Trump’s December tweet on air as part of a correction. 

"I thought when we reported last night that while he was president, he had actually never told Americans to get vaccinated," Maddow said March 2. "It turns out he did say, in one tweet in December, that everybody should get their shots."

 

Rich Conway

Footballguy
If you can accept the idea not every Trump voter is a rabid supporter, this gets much easier to understand. 
I accept this idea, but I'm just really having trouble with the notion that "vaccines!" is enough to get someone over the finish line.  "Thoughtful" people already know that Trump rarely explicitly badmouthed the vaccines, did praise and encourage them on occasion, and also really didn't do nearly as much as he could have to encourage them during a critical period when it would have helped a lot.  I just don't see typical Trump braggadocio of "My vaccines saved the world!" helping to sway those voters, especially given that "thoughtful" people should be considering the ramifications of Trump's actions re: the Big Lie, Jan 6, and everything since.  IMO, those same people almost certainly would have voted for him anyway and they're just looking for any excuse to rationalize it to themselves.

 

massraider

Footballguy
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-dismisses-covid-19-booster-shots-as-money-making-operation-2021-8

Former President Donald Trump on Wednesday suggested that vaccine booster shots aren't medically necessary and instead are being pushed by pharmaceutical companies purely for profit. 

"That sounds to me like a money-making operation for Pfizer," Trump, who was secretly vaccinated last January at the White House, told Fox Business host Maria Bartiromo. "Think of the money involved. An extra shot … How good a business is that? If you're a pure businessman, you'd say, 'you know what, let's give them another shot,' that's another $10 billion of money coming in — the whole thing is crazy."

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
I accept this idea, but I'm just really having trouble with the notion that "vaccines!" is enough to get someone over the finish line.  


Of course. We'll see. I'd also expect this to be just part of the picture. Things are rarely that binary. We'll see though. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Of course I accept that. Like you I know plenty of Trump voters who did so reluctantly. And some who stayed at home in 2020. 

But what you’re suggesting is that there could be enough of the ones who stayed home last time that, because of Trump’s new messaging, will come out and vote for him this time around, and that could turn the tide in the key swing states he lost: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc. anything’s possible but I doubt it.


Cool. Sounds like you've already figured it all out. All good, we'll just disagree there. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

massraider

Footballguy
Turns out, un-ringing a bell isn't that easy.

My dad is a Trump supporter, and informed us yesterday that the vaccine is a bioweapon, that's a fact and beyond doubt. 

 

timschochet

Footballguy
Cool. Sounds like you've already figured it all out. All good, we'll just disagree there. No surprise.
This seems like a bit of a sarcastic response. Of course I haven’t figured it all out. It’s 3 years away. Like you I’m offering my thoughts as of this moment. Still, I thought I offered solid reasons based on what the numbers show. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Turns out, un-ringing a bell isn't that easy.


It'll be interesting.

Myles Garrett was nominated for Walter Peyton's Man Of The Year award while Mason Rudulph's head was still sore where Garrett hit him swinging a helmet.

Few people have gone broke underestimating the American Public's propensity to move on to the next news cycle. 

But we'll see. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
This seems like a bit of a sarcastic response. Of course I haven’t figured it all out. It’s 3 years away. Like you I’m offering my thoughts as of this moment. Still, I thought I offered solid reasons based on what the numbers show. 


Not sarcastic at all. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

The General

Footballguy
Trump also now has to deal with being put on blast by these anti-vax Twitter / podcast people. He usually is not great at handling that.

I suspect many of these people aren’t loyal to him as much as they are gaining audiences. We’ll see how that angle plays out.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

massraider

Footballguy
As the president’s new, unabashed booster endorsement rippled out across right-wing social media, it was met with an combustible mix of anger, confusion, contorted excuses, and denial so pure it’s as if the former president had never uttered a word.

For a sign of just how severely Trump wrong-footed himself with his base by endorsing boosters, look no further than the editorial cartoonist Ben Garrison. The doodler’s devotion to the 45th president has been slavish, but Garrison’s opposition to the vaccine has also been stalwart. His latest cartoon opus shows Trump riding aboard on the “Big Pharma Vaccine Bandwagon” as he’s booed by the MAGA-hatted masses. 

On the social media app Telegram, Ron Watkins — whom many believe role-played “Q” in the QAnon conspiracy that held up Trump as America’s heaven-sent savior in the battle against satanic Democrats — sent out a message on the day of Trump’s comments. Watkins blasted “the insidious global campaign to use poisonous injections to ‘save’ every living man woman, woman [and] child.” Watkins didn’t respond to Trump directly, but later urged the “VF” (or Vaccine Free community) to “stand strong,” “never fear,” and “never comply.” Two days later, Watkins was back to unvarnished anti-vax hysteria blasting jabs and boosters as “Subscription Suicide Shots.”

Lin Wood, the high-profile, right-wing attorney who was a central player in the farcical legal campaign to overturn the results of the 2020 election, also took to Telegram after Trump spoke. Wood, who has touted the QAnon worldview and calls himself a “public advocate against” covid jabs, told his followers to hold their fire on Trump for “recommending the ‘vaccine’.” Wood called covid “a planned bioweapon” and cautioned patience: “I believe We The People should wait until ALL the facts are known before passing judgment on the President’s wartime strategy and the tactics designed to achieve victory.” (Wood’s appeal for patience fits a pattern. Anons have long overlooked facts that didn’t fit their worldview with calls to trust a long term “plan,” whose logic cannot always be discerned in the moment.) Later Wood took to Telegram, decrying his trolls: “Looks like I stirred up a hornet’s nest… Hornets must not like the TRUTH!!!” He again defended Trump: “You don’t have to agree with every statement President Trump makes or position he takes…. Judge the entire body of President Trump’s world as president… He loves America, freedom, and We the People."

 

massraider

Footballguy
There are people making money off being anti-vax. 

They are not in a rush to do a 180, and recommend a treatment they will make no money on. 

Instead, they will say this was a false flag, Trump doesn't really say this, it was a paid actor. 

They may even sacrifice Candace Owens in order to keep their fever dream alive. I am sure a lot of them won't mind doing that. 

 

massraider

Footballguy
Trump also now has to deal with being out on blast by these anti-vax Twitter / podcast people. He usually is not great at handling that.

I suspect many of these people aren’t loyal to him as much as they are gaining audiences. We’ll see how that angle plays out.
He won't say a word against them. 

He will let them spit random theories, until they settle back down, and find an absurd lie they can live with. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Trump also now has to deal with being put on blast by these anti-vax Twitter / podcast people. He usually is not great at handling that.

I suspect many of these people aren’t loyal to him as much as they are gaining audiences. We’ll see how that angle plays out.


I do agree with this. 

I've said from the start of this newfound vaccination focus theory how he walks the tightrope with keeping the Anti Vaccination folks still in the tent will be the challenge.

My guess is it'll be a strong stance on being Anti Mandate. He'll turn that into a "freedom" thing. It'll be a (my words), "Yes I saved the world. But for you folks that already had covid and have your own antibodies or whatever, I don't think the government should force you to take something against your will like sleepy joe believes". 

Whether he's a skilled enough politician to navigate this line will be interesting to see.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

The General

Footballguy
He won't say a word against them. 

He will let them spit random theories, until they settle back down, and find an absurd lie they can live with. 
We’ll see. If someone with enough clout starts pushing on him he has a propensity to respond. A savvy Internet personality could make this there thing. I have heard of Candice Owens but not sure if she’s his huckleberry. 

 

The General

Footballguy
I do agree with this. 

I've said from the start of this newfound vaccination focus theory how he walks the tightrope with keeping the Anti Vaccination folks still in the tent will be the challenge.

My guess is it'll be a strong stance on being Anti Mandate. He'll turn that into a "freedom" thing. It'll be a (my words), "Yes I saved the world. But for you folks that already had covid and have your own antibodies or whatever, I don't think the government should force you to take something against your will like sleepy joe believes". 

Whether he's a skilled enough politician to navigate this line will be interesting to see.
I don’t think he can really talk about this without it blowing up on him: 

 

massraider

Footballguy
Thanks. Can you elaborate on how the revenue is being made?
https://publicintegrity.org/health/coronavirus-and-inequality/spreading-fears-cashing-in-anti-vaccine/

Many many more articles about loads of people selling untested treatments, supplements, and links to their podcast, where they sell their products, beg for donations, and sell bad medical advice. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+antivaxxers+make+money&oq=how+antivaxxers+make+money&aqs=chrome..69i57.8735j0j4&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

timschochet

Footballguy
One other thing I wanted to add, irrespective of everything else: I’m really hoping that, by 2024 when the Presidential election is happening, Covid-19 is no longer on anyone’s radar as an issue that bears immediate attention. This pandemic has GOT to be in the rear view mirror by then, right? Right???

 

tymarsas

Footballguy
When you search for covid 19 on Amazon, many of the top results are books that are promoting covid 19 conspiracy theories: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=covid+19

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
One other thing I wanted to add, irrespective of everything else: I’m really hoping that, by 2024 when the Presidential election is happening, Covid-19 is no longer on anyone’s radar as an issue that bears immediate attention. This pandemic has GOT to be in the rear view mirror by then, right? Right???


I think that's reasonable to think it'll be mostly behind us. But it'll still be fresh enough for Trump claiming he saved the world will still have lots of value. 

 

Chaz McNulty

Footballguy
I think that's reasonable to think it'll be mostly behind us. But it'll still be fresh enough for Trump claiming he saved the world will still have lots of value. 
I think it's a little late in the game to all of a sudden claim he was encouraging everyone to get vaccinations.  As many have said, everyone is pretty dug in on Trump.  The people that held their nose and voted for Trump, would probably hold their nose and vote Republican pretty much every time.  I don't think there has been a worse Republican president in our time, but they still held their nose and voted for him.

The insurrection may slightly move the needle in the other direction with some of these people, but Trump revising history won't.

 

The General

Footballguy
I think that's reasonable to think it'll be mostly behind us. But it'll still be fresh enough for Trump claiming he saved the world will still have lots of value. 
Got to disagree. One, this hyperbole is for his base. Two, he will lose some of his hardcore / antivax type person. 

 

Mile High

Footballguy
Got to disagree. One, this hyperbole is for his base. Two, he will lose some of his hardcore / antivax type person. 
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"  

Still probably true.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
Again, I know it's more fun to paint every Trump voter as an enthusiastic rabid fanboy. But in my experience, I know a ton of lukewarm Trump voters. Again, just my personal experience. 
I do as well. And him bragging about how he saved millions of lives isn’t going to make a dent in all the reasons why the ones I know are lukewarm about him. And then there’s January 6, which happened since the last election. Will they vote for him next go around?  Perhaps. But they were lukewarm Trump voters last election too, so that isn’t a net gain among that group. A lukewarm vote counts the same as an enthusiastic vote. And I’m thinking he will lose some of the lukewarm votes he had last time in light of January 6.  A lot of my conservative friends who fell in that category are absolutely pissed about how that went down and his role in it. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
I accept this idea, but I'm just really having trouble with the notion that "vaccines!" is enough to get someone over the finish line.  "Thoughtful" people already know that Trump rarely explicitly badmouthed the vaccines, did praise and encourage them on occasion, and also really didn't do nearly as much as he could have to encourage them during a critical period when it would have helped a lot.  I just don't see typical Trump braggadocio of "My vaccines saved the world!" helping to sway those voters, especially given that "thoughtful" people should be considering the ramifications of Trump's actions re: the Big Lie, Jan 6, and everything since.  IMO, those same people almost certainly would have voted for him anyway and they're just looking for any excuse to rationalize it to themselves.
I should have kept reading. You sum up my thoughts pretty well here. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Got to disagree. One, this hyperbole is for his base. Two, he will lose some of his hardcore / antivax type person. 


Sure. No worries there. Disagreeing is part of it. 

My statement was answering Tim's question of whether COVID will be in our rearview mirror in 2024. I think it mostly will.

I think that's reasonable to think it'll be mostly behind us. But it'll still be fresh enough for Trump claiming he saved the world will still have lots of value. 


You disagree?

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rich Conway

Footballguy
I think that's reasonable to think it'll be mostly behind us. But it'll still be fresh enough for Trump claiming he saved the world will still have lots of value. 
I'm still struggling to see where the value comes in.  I just don't see Trump claiming to have saved the world influencing any voters who voted against him in 2020.  Sure, there might be a very few folks that voted for him in 2020, currently hesitant, that might get swayed.  But, as @timschochet points out, that isn't a net gain from 2020, as those people voted for him last time; that's just holding serve.

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
I'm still struggling to see where the value comes in.  I just don't see Trump claiming to have saved the world influencing any voters who voted against him in 2020.  


I understand you don't see creating the vaccine as an accomplishment to run on. Or influencing voters who didn't vote for him in 2020.

I think some will. We'll see how many. I truly don't have any idea. But I find the shift in focus an interesting development. Thus the thread. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

bigbottom

I put on my robe and wizard hat
I understand you don't see creating the vaccine as an accomplishment to run on.

I think some will. We'll see how many. I truly don't have any idea. But I find the shift in focus an interesting development. Thus the thread. 
Oh it’s definitely an interesting development and threadworthy. I’m thinking that for some folks at least, the conspiracy theories are now rooted deeper than their support for Trump and he will lose some of his base (or at least lose their enthusiasm, donations, merchandise sales, etc.).

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Oh it’s definitely an interesting development and threadworthy. I’m thinking that for some folks at least, the conspiracy theories are now rooted deeper than their support for Trump and he will lose some of his base (or at least lose their enthusiasm, donations, merchandise sales, etc.).


I'm sure that's true for some. We'll see how many. I truly don't know. 

I do know if I had the goal of keeping Donald Trump out of the White House in 2024, I'd rather not be seeing this change in focus with Trump embracing and taking credit for helping develop the vaccine. 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top