Trump And The Vaccine - A New Angle? (2 Viewers)

[Joe Bryant]

No surprise, "Trump booed over vaccine" headlines often don't represent reality. The video of what actually happened is useful. 

https://youtu.be/7hNqoQ8T4d0

This interview with Bill O'Reilly with clips from the event, who put on the event, is interesting. About 100 people out of the 11,000 people booed.

No idea if it's true, but O'Reilly said he did not tell Trump beforehand he would ask him the question if he'd been vaccinated and boosted.

The interesting thing for Trump and his strategists is it looks like he's made a dramatic shift in how he's approaching the vaccination.

O'Reilly said he was most interested in how Trump was able to make such a deal of getting the vaccine deal done. He said Trump told him he made the Big Pharma a "Don Corleone deal" that they couldn't refuse. I think we all know what this might look like when he switches to "I saved the world from millions of death with this vaccination deal I made". 

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to think where Trump might take this. 

 

[The General]

O'Reilly said he was most interested in how Trump was able to make such a deal of getting the vaccine deal done. He said Trump told him he made the Big Pharma a "Don Corleone deal" that they couldn't refuse. I think we all know what this might look like when he switches to "I saved the world from millions of death with this vaccination deal I made". 

I thought this has been his stance the whole time. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

The fascinating thing is how it gets spun. I saw the story from a Daily Beast newsletter I get. And yes, I'm well aware Daily Beast is biased but I try to get a rounded view.

Their headline for this video was "Bill O’Reilly: I Had to Console Trump After Fans Booed Him"

Most people won't click the video and will just laugh at poor baby donald crying over his idiot fans booed him.

As the video shows, there's a LOT more to it. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I thought this has been his stance the whole time. 

I don't think he's ever leaned into it like this. I see this becoming the focal point.

In the video he said something to effect of "This could have been the Spanish Flu killing 50 million but I saved us". 

O'Reilly said Trump told him he made a "Don Corleone" type deal the Pharma companies could not refuse. This will play right into his business guy / Art of The Deal angle. 

That's a radical new change at least from what I'd seen. 

 

[The General]

I don't think he's ever leaned into it like this. I see this becoming the focal point.

In the video he said something to effect of "This could have been the Spanish Flu killing 50 million but I saved us". 

O'Reilly said Trump told him he made a "Don Corleone" type deal the Pharma companies could not refuse. This will play right into his business guy / Art of The Deal angle. 

That's a radical new change at least from what I'd seen. 

These are the types of comments I recall from Don about the vaccine: Don’t let him take credit for the vaccines because the vaccines were me and I pushed people harder than they’ve ever been pushed before

I feel like this has been repeated in one form or another for awhile from Don. Perhaps isn't being heard as much because of a combination of his social media bans and his focus on the election results.

 

[The General]

In any case this was a good moment for Donald and hopefully he can convince some anti-vax people that it is ok to get the shots. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

These are the types of comments I recall from Don about the vaccine: Don’t let him take credit for the vaccines because the vaccines were me and I pushed people harder than they’ve ever been pushed before

I feel like this has been repeated in one form or another for awhile from Don. Perhaps isn't being heard as much because of a combination of his social media bans and his focus on the election results.

Could well be. 

It just seemed to me that he's realized "Don't let sleepy joe and the media fool you. I saved us with this vaccine and kept it from being the Spanish Flu and killing 50 million because I'm a deal maker and I did it"  is how he runs in 2024. 

That seems relatively new to me. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

In any case this was a good moment for Donald and hopefully he can convince some anti-vax people that it is ok to get the shots. 

Agreed.

 

[Joe Bryant]

In any case this was a good moment for Donald and hopefully he can convince some anti-vax people that it is ok to get the shots. 

Also, from a strategy angle, which mostly seemed to be what O'Reilly was into, it's super interesting. 

Obviously, there is some contingent out there who are adamantly anti vaccination. For whatever reason, it seems known that most of those are Republican voters. 2020 showed Trump he doesn't have any votes to alienate. So he's got the super tricky line to walk of "I saved the world with this vaccine" and yet still get the Anti Vaccination people to stay with him.

I'm no strategist, but my guess is he'll do it with "I'm the deal making king. I got this done by pushing around Big Pharma. And I'll do the same for you on the issues you care about. But unlike those power hungry democrats, I will not do a mandate forcing you to take something you don't believe in. Because I respect your freedom". Or something like that. This thing isn't hard. It'll write itself. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The interesting thing for Trump and his strategists is it looks like he's made a dramatic shift in how he's approaching the vaccination.

O'Reilly said he was most interested in how Trump was able to make such a deal of getting the vaccine deal done. He said Trump told him he made the Big Pharma a "Don Corleone deal" that they couldn't refuse. I think we all know what this might look like when he switches to "I saved the world from millions of death with this vaccination deal I made". 

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to think where Trump might take this. 

I agree with your analysis.  Obviously it's good for Trump for push vaccination.  If there's one person who can move the proverbial needle on vaccination among the MAGA crowd, it's clearly Trump (duh).  I'm very glad to see this.

From a political angle, I take this as a sign that Trump intends to run in 2024 and he wants to claim credit for vaccines being developed on his watch, which is a totally normally thing for a political leader to do, and it's well-justified given that Trump pushed ahead with OWS.  Trump would probably be president right now if he had taken this approach last year.  Sitting here right now, this feels like a change of message and folks like us will probably remember that most of the vaccine resistance came from Trump supporters, but the 2024 election is nearly three years away and that's plenty of time for that fact to get tossed down the memory hole.  I would not be surprised to be reading a bunch of "Actually, Trump supporters were saying they didn't like the vaccines back in 2021" in August 2024.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

I agree with your analysis.  Obviously it's good for Trump for push vaccination.  If there's one person who can move the proverbial needle on vaccination among the MAGA crowd, it's clearly Trump (duh).  I'm very glad to see this.

From a political angle, I take this as a sign that Trump intends to run in 2024 and he wants to claim credit for vaccines being developed on his watch, which is a totally normally thing for a political leader to do, and it's well-justified given that Trump pushed ahead with OWS.  Trump would probably be president right now if he had taken this approach last year.  Sitting here right now, this feels like a change of message and folks like us will probably remember that most of the vaccine resistance came from Trump supporters, but the 2024 election is nearly three years away and that's plenty of time for that fact to get tossed down the memory hole.  I would not be surprised to be reading a bunch of "Actually, Trump supporters were saying they didn't like the vaccines back in 2021" in August 2024.  

Thanks IK. 

But to add, you wrote, "I would not be surprised to be reading a bunch of "Actually, Trump supporters were saying they didn't like the vaccines back in 2021" in August 2024.  "

I don't think we'll see that. I think we see the opposite. I can envision it being said by Trump supporters in 2024, "Sure I was for the vaccine. Yeah there were a few hardliners who didn't want it but this thing saved the world. Thank God for Trump"

 

[The General]

I agree with your analysis.  Obviously it's good for Trump for push vaccination.  If there's one person who can move the proverbial needle on vaccination among the MAGA crowd, it's clearly Trump (duh).  I'm very glad to see this.

From a political angle, I take this as a sign that Trump intends to run in 2024 and he wants to claim credit for vaccines being developed on his watch, which is a totally normally thing for a political leader to do, and it's well-justified given that Trump pushed ahead with OWS.  Trump would probably be president right now if he had taken this approach last year.  Sitting here right now, this feels like a change of message and folks like us will probably remember that most of the vaccine resistance came from Trump supporters, but the 2024 election is nearly three years away and that's plenty of time for that fact to get tossed down the memory hole.  I would not be surprised to be reading a bunch of "Actually, Trump supporters were saying they didn't like the vaccines back in 2021" in August 2024.  

Yeah. This is what he has been doing the whole time.

 

[HellToupee]

I thought this has been his stance the whole time. 

it has been and it’s not the 1st time he was booed over this at a rally 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yeah. This is what he has been doing the whole time.

I don't think he's made it the centerpiece of his campaign. 

 

[tonydead]

it has been and it’s not the 1st time he was booed over this at a rally 

This is not news.  The idea that Trump is anti vaccine is a false narrative completely fabricated by the left.  Lots of people still confusing anti mandate with anti vaccine.

Warpspeed

Contracting the virus.

Getting vaccinated

And now getting boosted.

 

[HellToupee]

Trump in Alabama

“I recommend take the vaccines” to a handful of boos

 

[Joe Bryant]

This is not news.  The idea that Trump is anti vaccine is a false narrative completely fabricated by the left.  Lots of people still confusing anti mandate with anti vaccine.

I think what's news is I see a new found focus for him on this. 

I can very easily see Trump taking the media to task and making this the centerpiece of his campaign. Something with "Here's how fake the media is. They claim I'm anti vaccine. I INVENTED THE VACCINE and kept us from the END OF THE WORLD. Don't be a stooge. I got the deal done because I'm an alpha and I strong armed Big Pharma. You think sleepy joe could do that? Kamala? Pete? Gimme a break. Leading the free world takes Big Energy and I'm your guy". Again, it's not hard to see how this will go.

Trump becoming the Vaccination King will be a judo flip. And hard to handle. 

 

[glvsav37]

This is what I've been saying all along and why I dont understand this huge political stance over the vax right now. 

It put it in FF terms: your QB just threw a 99 yard strike only to have the opponents RB punch it in from the 1 yard line. 

Trump supporters should have been lining up in mass to take the jab to show how wonderful it was and give Trump all the praise for fast tracking such a miraculous vaccine. It was all the D's leading up to Nov saying "don't trust it," "anything Trump produces is suspect"  and "the FDA will never approve something created so fast" 

Now it leans pretty hard left as to those who support the Vax vs those on the right who oppose it. But aren't you invalidating your guy's work?  I dont get it???

 

[The General]

I don't think he's made it the centerpiece of his campaign. 

Well he hasn't announced he's running yet but he does seem to be most focused on the "stolen election" so far.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Well he hasn't announced he's running yet but he does seem to be most focused on the "stolen election" so far.

What percent chance do you think it is that he runs in 2024?

 

[The General]

it has been and it’s not the 1st time he was booed over this at a rally 

This is not news.  The idea that Trump is anti vaccine is a false narrative completely fabricated by the left.  Lots of people still confusing anti mandate with anti vaccine.

Warpspeed

Contracting the virus.

Getting vaccinated

And now getting boosted.

He could have been more aggressive in his messaging about getting the shot IMO, but I hadn't seen him being called anti-vax.

 

[The General]

What percent chance do you think it is that he runs in 2024?

I assume he is as long as he has no health issue. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

This is what I've been saying all along and why I dont understand this huge political stance over the vax right now. 

It put it in FF terms: your QB just threw a 99 yard strike only to have the opponents RB punch it in from the 1 yard line. 

Trump supporters should have been lining up in mass to take the jab to show how wonderful it was and give Trump all the praise for fast tracking such a miraculous vaccine. It was all the D's leading up to Nov saying "don't trust it," "anything Trump produces is suspect"  and "the FDA will never approve something created so fast" 

Now it leans pretty hard left as to those who support the Vax vs those on the right who oppose it. But aren't you invalidating your guy's work?  I dont get it???

Yes. 

My guess is the smart people realize the mistake. 

I also guess they realize how to rectify the mistake. That's what will be interesting. 

 

[JIslander]

His 35-40% will believe anything he says, so this won't be an issue with them even if they are anti-vaxxers; they will change their view because he's father Trump (oops) -  its the independents and swing/ on the fence voters that likely won't buy it ---

 

[Insein]

In any case this was a good moment for Donald and hopefully he can convince some anti-vax people that it is ok to get the shots. 

Or maybe it will convince people that got the vax already to just let people make their own choice and move on. Who knows.

 

[Nugget]

Could well be. 

It just seemed to me that he's realized "Don't let sleepy joe and the media fool you. I saved us with this vaccine and kept it from being the Spanish Flu and killing 50 million because I'm a deal maker and I did it"  is how he runs in 2024. 

That seems relatively new to me. 

I think if he would have taken this tone with the vaccine and covid in general last summer he would still be President today.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think if he would have taken this tone with the vaccine and covid in general last summer he would still be President today.  

Agreed. I think what has changed is either he, or the people he listens to manage his campaign now believe that too. 

And bigger, they see a chance to rectify their mistake. 

 

[tonydead]

I don't think he's made it the centerpiece of his campaign. 

He most definitely was pushing to get the vaccine out before Nov 3rd.  It was THE centerpiece of the world at the time.  What was on Trump's platform that was more important? That's why the other two made inferences that they wouldn't "trust a Trump vaccine".

 

[AAABatteries]

Agreed. I think what has changed is either he, or the people he listens to manage his campaign now believe that too. 

And bigger, they see a chance to rectify their mistake. 

After 1/6 he needs something to sway independents -  assuming he even can.  This would help but doesn’t seem like it will be enough.  

 

[jm192]

Could well be. 

It just seemed to me that he's realized "Don't let sleepy joe and the media fool you. I saved us with this vaccine and kept it from being the Spanish Flu and killing 50 million because I'm a deal maker and I did it"  is how he runs in 2024. 

That seems relatively new to me. 

This was his message in 2020.  I guess he had downplayed the virus before and now he's saying it's a big deal.  

But every time he was asked about his plan for COVID if he's elected--it was vaccines.  Operation warp speed.  We'll have the military distribute these at record speed.  

 

[jm192]

I think if he would have taken this tone with the vaccine and covid in general last summer he would still be President today.  

I always felt his tone was extremely pro-vaccine.  It was his ONLY plan for how to combat covid.  

During the debates, Biden would lay out several things.

Trump:  Vaccines.  Operation warp speed.  Rinse and repeat

 

[Nugget]

He most definitely was pushing to get the vaccine out before Nov 3rd.  It was THE centerpiece of the world at the time.  What was on Trump's platform that was more important? That's why the other two made inferences that they wouldn't "trust a Trump vaccine".

I seem to recall a general attack on mail in ballots and criminals crossing the border as the big push in October.  

Donald Trump's Closing Message to Americans: Ignore COVID-19

 

[sho nuff]

This was his message in 2020.  I guess he had downplayed the virus before and now he's saying it's a big deal.  

But every time he was asked about his plan for COVID if he's elected--it was vaccines.  Operation warp speed.  We'll have the military distribute these at record speed.  

Sure...I think the notion that Biden administration would handle it better was because of his early downplaying, suppressing information and so on (less so than his stance on the vaccine).  What will hurt him if he runs again (or should)...was that after the election, while he was still POTUS, what happened between the election and turning over power to Biden?  What was Trump focused on?  It seemingly was not Covid or Vaccine rollout...but how the election was stolen from him.

 

[Joe Bryant]

After 1/6 he needs something to sway independents -  assuming he even can.  This would help but doesn’t seem like it will be enough.  

Agreed. The people in the middle seem like the key to me. I know we've talked about this before and people don't all agree. But it seems like there is a large section that will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is. And a large section that will vote for whoever the Republican nominee is. And whoever can win the middle wins the whole thing. I know that's simplistic. But it seems right to me. 

 

[The General]

This was his message in 2020.  I guess he had downplayed the virus before and now he's saying it's a big deal.  

But every time he was asked about his plan for COVID if he's elected--it was vaccines.  Operation warp speed.  We'll have the military distribute these at record speed.  

Yes. I don't think this is a new thing.

 

[tonydead]

Well he hasn't announced he's running yet but he does seem to be most focused on the "stolen election" so far.

Right, since Nov 3rd nothing has been more important to Trump than that.  And he's stated before that would be his platform if he chooses to run in 2024.  I think that's a mistake.  If he runs that needs to be further down the list and the #1 issue being all of the current administration's failures.  Covid is at the top of that list - currently.    

But it's a bit early for vaccinations to be a highlight of a run several years from now.  Hopefully the vaccine isn't playing much of a role in 2024 while reminding the voters the terrible job Biden did with it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yes. I don't this is a new thing.

Thanks. I'm fully open to being wrong on this as a new focus. 

"Look, we did something that was historic, we saved tens of millions of lives worldwide. We, together, all of us, not me," Trump says in the video, which comes right before Trump receives the smattering of boos.

He goes on to say that Covid-19 was going to "ravage the country far beyond what it is right now" if the vaccines had not been developed.

"Take credit for it. Take credit for it. It's great. What we've done is historic. Don't let them take it away. Don't take it away from ourselves," Trump says. "You are playing right into their hands when you sort of like, 'oh, the vaccine.' If you don't want to take it, you shouldn't be forced to take it. No mandates. But take credit, because we saved tens of millions of lives. Take credit. Don't let them take that away from you."

 

[The General]

Thanks. I'm fully open to being wrong on this with a new focus. 

It could definitely be a perception thing. I remember this being a consistent message during the 2016 election (I recall him going as far as saying these wouldn't be out if he didn't win). I have also heard this since he lost but has definitely been drowned out by his other messaging priorities. 

So I'm a bit in the anti-Don camp....Operation warp speed and the vax is one of the few things I would put as a positive for him. 

 

[tonydead]

It could definitely be a perception thing. I remember this being a consistent message during the 2016 election (I recall him going as far as saying these wouldn't be out if he didn't win). I have also heard this since he lost but has definitely been drowned out by his other messaging priorities. 

So I'm a bit in the anti-Don camp....Operation warp speed and the vax is one of the few things I would put as a positive for him. 

Patriot Trump was always way ahead of his time.

 

[The General]

Right, since Nov 3rd nothing has been more important to Trump than that.  And he's stated before that would be his platform if he chooses to run in 2024.  I think that's a mistake.  If he runs that needs to be further down the list and the #1 issue being all of the current administration's failures.  Covid is at the top of that list - currently.    

But it's a bit early for vaccinations to be a highlight of a run several years from now.  Hopefully the vaccine isn't playing much of a role in 2024 while reminding the voters the terrible job Biden did with it.

Yep to the 1st bolded. Everyone tells him this but his ego cannot allow it IMO. The perception that he is a loser is such a driving factor for him. 

We can all agree on the 2nd bolded part - that we don't need it anymore. That seems like a distant reality but who knows.

 

[The General]

Patriot Trump was always way ahead of his time.

lol. Whoops. What is time really these days? 

 

[Joe Bryant]

When I see thoughtful posters like rockaction write the headline as "Trump ADMITTED getting a booster shot" (caps mine), that's what i'm talking about when I say this is new.

I'd guess lots of people would have guessed Trump had not received a booster shot. 

I'm saying I think that focus is about to change. 

 

[The General]

When I see thoughtful posters like rockaction write the headline as "Trump ADMITTED getting a booster shot" (caps mine), that's what i'm talking about when I say this is new.

I'd guess lots of people would have guessed Trump had not received a booster shot. 

He didn't have photo ops of him getting the shots. 

I'm saying I think that focus is about to change. 

My reaction to this now is that’s great. But so what?

That he hasn’t been more out in front about getting vaxed - like the past presidents and pretty much everyone in our government - is very telling and typical. It wasn’t helping him. 

This screams self-serving and everything about this guy that is repulsive. 

 

[AAABatteries]

When I see thoughtful posters like rockaction write the headline as "Trump ADMITTED getting a booster shot" (caps mine), that's what i'm talking about when I say this is new.

I'd guess lots of people would have guessed Trump had not received a booster shot. 

I'm saying I think that focus is about to change. 

I honestly don’t know why anyone would think Trump wouldn’t get boosted.  Admitting to it is one thing, but Trump is George Constanza at the kids birthday party shoving women and children out of his way when he thinks there’s a fire.  Of course he was going to get boosted.

 

[tonydead]

When I see thoughtful posters like rockaction write the headline as "Trump ADMITTED getting a booster shot" (caps mine), that's what i'm talking about when I say this is new.

I'd guess lots of people would have guessed Trump had not received a booster shot. 

I'm saying I think that focus is about to change. 

I get 100% what you are saying, but, that blows my mind.

Trump is the architect of Warpspeed.  Trump contracted the virus and was treated with what can best be described as experimental (safe I'm sure) drugs.  In the middle of burn it all down January he still got vaccinated before leaving the White House.  What indications did you and rockaction get that would make you think he wouldn't get the shot?  And it was only a matter of time until someone would ask him, why would he lie?

Left Media Bias - > anti-vaxxers are Trumps fault.

 

[belljr]

Trump imo is doing whatever he feels/needs to do to cover all his "bases".  He wants to appease the greater audience.  

It may be new that he is "leaning into it " a little but he was selling the warp speed from the start.  When the Dems started praising the vaccines he kind of "backed off" taking them.

Politics aside - Trump does not like to appear "weak" - he wants to present himself as "a strong man- strong leader" "alpha" - so he would not

a) tout he got the vaccine/booster

b) he doesnt want "to help the Democrats"

Now he may see he'll need the people to support him that support the vaccines.   

 

[timschochet]

Joe I think your analysis is largely correct, including the thought that he will run on this and it will be central to his campaign, along with inflation (if it’s still bad), immigration, and various other Trumpian stuff. 
 

The main criticism over Trump’s handling of Covid involved his dismissal of the problem, his refusal to encourage testing, his urging states to reopen long before the crisis was out of control, his endorsement of questionable homeopathic remedies, and his constant suggestions that the media had exaggerated the crisis in order to defeat him in the election. All of these put together equal gross incompetence, but 4 years is a long time and the public may very well forget and instead accept this revisionist history. It will be up to the Democrats to keep that from happening, but they’re not so great at messaging, as we’ve seen lately. So it might work. 

 

[dkp993]

What percent chance do you think it is that he runs in 2024?

98%

 

[Joe Bryant]

My reaction to this now is that’s great. But so what?

That he hasn’t been more out in front about getting vaxed - like the past presidents and pretty much everyone in our government - is very telling and typical. It wasn’t helping him. 

This screams self-serving and everything about this guy that is repulsive. 

I think "so what" is he's now focused on righting what had been his biggest strategic mistake.

And for self serving, of course it's self serving. Playing up one's accomplishments is just how politics work. I don't think anyone should be surprised by that. 

 

[dkp993]

Agreed. The people in the middle seem like the key to me. I know we've talked about this before and people don't all agree. But it seems like there is a large section that will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is. And a large section that will vote for whoever the Republican nominee is. And whoever can win the middle wins the whole thing. I know that's simplistic. But it seems right to me. 

As a person in the middle I would say this is largely true with the exception of it Trump runs. There’s plenty in the middle who will absolutely not vote for him but are dying for a solid R candidate.