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Turns Out Officer Sicknick Died of Natural Causes (1 Viewer)

There are posters in here making a lot of claims against the media, but only have yesterday's news as an example. There are valid reasons the media reported what it did. I'm waiting for @ekbeats or @tonydead to post the family statements they claim contradicted the Capitol Police's statement.
As soon as it was known that he died of a stroke and that we were awaiting the ME report, all statements from the capitol police prior to that became clear were only speculative. They aren't medical examiners and are incapable of making such a determination. There was nothing wrong with them issuing the original statement they did since it wasn't exactly an illogical flow through, and obviously they were emotional as they just lost somebody. The coincidence of it would be hard to shake if emotionally connected. 

The media knows that the police spokesperson isn't an ME and knows better than to use their word for determination of death. If they don't know better, that is part of the problem.

This is where it is important to also note what information was put out via back door channels. The fire extinguisher info wasn't officially acknowledged by the police. That was put out by unnamed sources. Now I am pretty sure that this all stems back to the union, and Gus Papathanasiou. I obviously cant prove it, but I am pretty sure that's the source. Police union officials are well known to twist and bend the truth.

The police at the station would have obviously known he didnt have a gash on his forehead, so that statement wouldn't have come from them since they would know the truth would come out. When you see how Gus was out there thumpin it is easy to connect the dots there, at least in my opinion. 

And the extinguisher leading to the stroke is the perfect extension. The media likes the narrative, so they dont vet it like they normally would. I mean if a union official announced that somebody put a razor blade in an officer's sandwich, you can bet your rear that reporters would be on the scene trying to clear the name of whatever restaurant or worker the accusation was made about in no time flat (yes this happened). If the police super secret sources were making claims about BLM, pffftttt....Would be investigated every which way before print. But this time there was no desire for that.

But obviously in hindsight the reason for the sources being unnamed becomes perfectly clear since we know he literally had zero visible injuries. The unnamed sources weren't wrong. They lied. That's why I am even further convinced it was the union because they are the only ones that have a consistent track record of doing so. I generally think officers and police chiefs are pretty reliable sources. They aren't above reproach as there are some stories where they put out nothing short of misinformation, but by and large I think they are reliable. Police unions though? No freaking way. I used to believe them, but not anymore. 

But back to the media...Why would these sources have to be unnamed? They werent breaking the thin blue line here. They weren't doing undercover controversial stuff. They weren't reporting corruption within the department. If they felt it was something that should be kept under wraps to not hinder the investigation, they wouldnt be leaking it That should have been a big red flag. 

BUT......Even if they were genuinely duped, (Which is still their fault since using an unnamed source means their credibility is on the line and obviously they weren't qualified to judge veracity... so many media members made use of the word "bludgeoned") how do they dive head first into the bear spray story before waiting for the ME report? 

Then after that how on earth can a single person take them seriously outside of inarguable factual data above reproach regarding this story?

And none of this is monday morning QB stuff since I was incredibly skeptical from day one of the fire extinguisher story and wasn't shy about making that known.

 
It’s important in determining the media’s credibility or something else?

I’m still having trouble understanding why yesterday’s news is being considered such a “gotcha!”  The guy appears to have died as a result of the events of January 6.  That seems pretty damning if you’re trying to portray that day as a mostly peaceful protest.
Doesnt sound like natural causes to me.

 
As soon as it was known that he died of a stroke and that we were awaiting the ME report, all statements from the capitol police prior to that became clear were only speculative. They aren't medical examiners and are incapable of making such a determination. There was nothing wrong with them issuing the original statement they did since it wasn't exactly an illogical flow through, and obviously they were emotional as they just lost somebody. The coincidence of it would be hard to shake if emotionally connected. 

The media knows that the police spokesperson isn't an ME and knows better than to use their word for determination of death. If they don't know better, that is part of the problem.

This is where it is important to also note what information was put out via back door channels. The fire extinguisher info wasn't officially acknowledged by the police. That was put out by unnamed sources. Now I am pretty sure that this all stems back to the union, and Gus Papathanasiou. I obviously cant prove it, but I am pretty sure that's the source. Police union officials are well known to twist and bend the truth.

The police at the station would have obviously known he didnt have a gash on his forehead, so that statement wouldn't have come from them since they would know the truth would come out. When you see how Gus was out there thumpin it is easy to connect the dots there, at least in my opinion. 

And the extinguisher leading to the stroke is the perfect extension. The media likes the narrative, so they dont vet it like they normally would. I mean if a union official announced that somebody put a razor blade in an officer's sandwich, you can bet your rear that reporters would be on the scene trying to clear the name of whatever restaurant or worker the accusation was made about in no time flat (yes this happened). If the police super secret sources were making claims about BLM, pffftttt....Would be investigated every which way before print. But this time there was no desire for that.

But obviously in hindsight the reason for the sources being unnamed becomes perfectly clear since we know he literally had zero visible injuries. The unnamed sources weren't wrong. They lied. That's why I am even further convinced it was the union because they are the only ones that have a consistent track record of doing so. I generally think officers and police chiefs are pretty reliable sources. They aren't above reproach as there are some stories where they put out nothing short of misinformation, but by and large I think they are reliable. Police unions though? No freaking way. I used to believe them, but not anymore. 

But back to the media...Why would these sources have to be unnamed? They werent breaking the thin blue line here. They weren't doing undercover controversial stuff. They weren't reporting corruption within the department. If they felt it was something that should be kept under wraps to not hinder the investigation, they wouldnt be leaking it That should have been a big red flag. 

BUT......Even if they were genuinely duped, (Which is still their fault since using an unnamed source means their credibility is on the line and obviously they weren't qualified to judge veracity... so many media members made use of the word "bludgeoned") how do they dive head first into the bear spray story before waiting for the ME report? 

Then after that how on earth can a single person take them seriously outside of inarguable factual data above reproach regarding this story?

And none of this is monday morning QB stuff since I was incredibly skeptical from day one of the fire extinguisher story and wasn't shy about making that known.
I won't dispute anything you say here, and thank you for the thoughtful reply. But the OP 's point is that the media should have known Sicknick's death was unrelated to the events of Jan. 6th. or should not have reported it as such. The police themselves fed that narrative and the media used them as a source and the family/brother was also claiming his death was from Jan. 6.

And even with the ME's news yesterday, the Capitol Police classify Sicknick's death as a result of injuries suffered in the line of duty.

 
There are posters in here making a lot of claims against the media, but only have yesterday's news as an example. There are valid reasons the media reported what it did. I'm waiting for @ekbeats or @tonydead to post the family statements they claim contradicted the Capitol Police's statement.
This is pretty bad.  Because the original links in the Jan 6th thread have been scrubbed.  This is a complete cover up.  Go ahead and click on belljr's link here and see what happens.

But they can't get to everyone:

Speaking exclusively to DailyMail.com Gladys Sicknick, 74, was unequivocal in her assertion that Officer Brian Sicknick was not struck on the head and that as far as the family knows her son had a fatal stroke.  She said, ‘He wasn’t hit on the head no. We think he had a stroke, but we don’t know anything for sure.  ‘We’d love to know what happened.'
Here is some live reporting of it.

They are positive he wasn't hit on the head, then kept in the dark about the real cause as the Dems and MSM ran with the fire extinguisher narrative.  Let that sink in for a minute.  Let it marinate.  

 
tonydead said:
This is pretty bad.  Because the original links in the Jan 6th thread have been scrubbed.  This is a complete cover up.  Go ahead and click on belljr's link here and see what happens.

But they can't get to everyone:

Here is some live reporting of it.

They are positive he wasn't hit on the head, then kept in the dark about the real cause as the Dems and MSM ran with the fire extinguisher narrative.  Let that sink in for a minute.  Let it marinate.  
First, thank you for the reply. Let's have a calm conversation. This is the firs this has been posted in this thread. The Propublica link that supposedly had a family statement contained nothing of the sort, only brother saying the Jan. 6 killed his brother.

Second, this link only provides speculation from the mother. It even says they had no cause of death. That's not the media's fault. Maybe there was other info, but certainly not an official cause of death.

And yes, at some point the media did correct the fire extinguisher narrative. 

 
Amused to Death said:
I won't dispute anything you say here, and thank you for the thoughtful reply. But the OP 's point is that the media should have known Sicknick's death was unrelated to the events of Jan. 6th. or should not have reported it as such. The police themselves fed that narrative and the media used them as a source and the family/brother was also claiming his death was from Jan. 6.

And even with the ME's news yesterday, the Capitol Police classify Sicknick's death as a result of injuries suffered in the line of duty.
Technically in reading their statement they don't say it was from injuries, just that it was in the line of duty. That makes sense since he was actually on duty when he had the stroke. If you read the second caption for this story it says  "a line of vehicles ushered the body of Tim Sheehan, who died in the line of duty, from Mon Valley Hospital back to the borough where he lived and worked"

He died of a heart attack while unloading his car at the station.  

 
crackattack said:
That is definitely poor form and crap by the Herald reporting it that way.

 
tonydead said:
This is pretty bad.  Because the original links in the Jan 6th thread have been scrubbed.  This is a complete cover up.  Go ahead and click on belljr's link here and see what happens.

But they can't get to everyone:

Here is some live reporting of it.

They are positive he wasn't hit on the head, then kept in the dark about the real cause as the Dems and MSM ran with the fire extinguisher narrative.  Let that sink in for a minute.  Let it marinate.  
belljr's link takes you to another link which takes you to the story.  Pretty crappy job of a "complete cover up".  

And by "live reporting" we mean a story from Feb 22, almost a month after even CNN had published that the fire extinguisher story was inaccurate. 

 
Didn't someone post earlier a screenshot of the NYT article that said he got hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, and was taken to the hospital and put on life support.  The statement by the capitol police says none of that.  Now, people  are saying the statement by the capitol police is where the news organizations got their information.  Except, the statement by the capitol police doesn't say what the news organizations reported.

 
Didn't someone post earlier a screenshot of the NYT article that said he got hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, and was taken to the hospital and put on life support.  The statement by the capitol police says none of that.  Now, people  are saying the statement by the capitol police is where the news organizations got their information.  Except, the statement by the capitol police doesn't say what the news organizations reported.
Their headline was based on the law enforcement officials they state in the body of the article.

 
Yes.  And now we are back to the use of unnamed sources which is standard across media using them.
The material is information and not opinion or speculation, and is vital to the news report.

The information is not available except under the conditions of anonymity imposed by the source.

The source is reliable, and in a position to have accurate information.

Reporters who intend to use material from anonymous sources must get approval from their news manager before sending the story to the desk. The manager is responsible for vetting the material and making sure it meets AP guidelines. The manager must know the identity of the source, and is obligated, like the reporter, to keep the source's identity confidential. Only after they are assured that the source material has been vetted should editors allow it to be transmitted.

Reporters should proceed with interviews on the assumption they are on the record. If the source wants to set conditions, these should be negotiated at the start of the interview. At the end of the interview, the reporter should try once again to move some or all of the information back on the record.

Before agreeing to use anonymous source material, the reporter should ask how the source knows the information is accurate, ensuring that the source has direct knowledge. 

lol....ooops

 
Multiple sources in law enforcement would meet the requirement for a reliable source and be trusted to have accurate information.

 
This is that ever-so-predictable part of thread where certain people, who seem constitutionally incapable of accepting legitimate points supported by clear facts, start parsing words and phrases.  Do whatever you have to do to justify things in your mind.  Whatever gets you through night...

 
Didn't someone post earlier a screenshot of the NYT article that said he got hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, and was taken to the hospital and put on life support.  The statement by the capitol police says none of that.  Now, people  are saying the statement by the capitol police is where the news organizations got their information.  Except, the statement by the capitol police doesn't say what the news organizations reported.
https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/loss-uscp-colleague-brian-d-sicknick

It says "Officer Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol and was injured while physically engaging with protesters.  He returned to his division office and collapsed.  He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries"

 
tonydead said:
This is pretty bad.  Because the original links in the Jan 6th thread have been scrubbed.  This is a complete cover up.  Go ahead and click on belljr's link here and see what happens.

But they can't get to everyone:

Here is some live reporting of it.

They are positive he wasn't hit on the head, then kept in the dark about the real cause as the Dems and MSM ran with the fire extinguisher narrative.  Let that sink in for a minute.  Let it marinate.  
That link on belier's post just tells you that you are being redirected to the original story.

 
This is that ever-so-predictable part of thread where certain people, who seem constitutionally incapable of accepting legitimate points supported by clear facts, start parsing words and phrases.  Do whatever you have to do to justify things in your mind.  Whatever gets you through night...
Its not parsing squat.  Its a legitimate standard of journalism.

Some refuse to see it...blame the media and make unfounded claims that they made up the whole thing.

Had some Claim before that the unnamed law enforcement could just be some passer by or janitor.

They got bad information from a source they trusted.  It sucks...but no source would have kept from reporting it with two trusted law enforcement sources.  They just wouldn’t.

 
belljr's link takes you to another link which takes you to the story.  Pretty crappy job of a "complete cover up".  

And by "live reporting" we mean a story from Feb 22, almost a month after even CNN had published that the fire extinguisher story was inaccurate. 
No it doesn't that is the replacement link and the link that's supposed to go back to the original story doesn't work.

C'mon, you can tell it's not the original link published by belljr as it doesn't say what he posted about.

 
That link on belier's post just tells you that you are being redirected to the original story.


That's just what the Deep State wants you to believe.
You two failed Internet 101.  Go back to Start and do not pass Go.

No it doesn't that is the replacement link and the link that's supposed to go back to the original story doesn't work.

C'mon, you can tell it's not the original link published by belljr as it doesn't say what he posted about.

 
First, thank you for the reply. Let's have a calm conversation. This is the firs this has been posted in this thread. The Propublica link that supposedly had a family statement contained nothing of the sort, only brother saying the Jan. 6 killed his brother.

Second, this link only provides speculation from the mother. It even says they had no cause of death. That's not the media's fault. Maybe there was other info, but certainly not an official cause of death.

And yes, at some point the media did correct the fire extinguisher narrative. 
It was posted several times in the old thread and discussed at length.  Sources this and sources that.  Many places reported what the mother and brother had said - no head trauma and it was a stroke. You want me to link every time myself and parasaurolophus pointed that little problem the media should have had about running with this story?

You can claim speculation, and sources, and any other BS all you want.  It doesn't change the facts we now know as absolutely true.

1 - Sicknick never hand any head trauma whatsoever.

2 - Many people lied.  

3 - MSM perpetuated that lie because it fit their narrative.  

4 - MSM ignored what the family said because it didn't fit their narrative.

And finally the Dems drank the cool aide all the way to a fake news impeachment trial. 

 
What was the date of belljr's post?  Jan 7th. 

Where is the link to the old story he would have been talking about Jan 7th?   The link doesn't work.
Yeah they updated the original story. It was dated Jan 7th, then says it’s was updated on Jan 11th.

 
Obviously not in this situation. The media failed.
Or they were wrong and passed it along.  Perhaps its the sources issue...not the media.  If they verify from two people.  There is not a media source out there that wouldn’t report that.  You get that, right?

 
Not when those sources are made up.  Can't grasp that concept?
I grasp the concept that there is literally no evidence that the law enforcement sources are made up.  Yet you keep making that baseless accusation which you refuse to back up.

 
Or they were wrong and passed it along.  Perhaps its the sources issue...not the media.  If they verify from two people.  There is not a media source out there that wouldn’t report that.  You get that, right?
The bold isnt possible if they followed the rules. They would have verified that the information was accurate. And obviously in this scenario they must have accepted third party accounts. Because things like a gash on the forehead wouldn't be wrong factually from a first hand witness. 

You can repeat all you want that OMG but it was two sources, and it means nothing. Nada. Zip. Because those sources were OBVIOUSLY not reliable. That is 100% factual. They don't meet any objective criteria for being a reliable source. I mean 0 for 2 is really bad on the same story. What kind of vetting process is that ffs? 

I mean how hard is it to freaking ask, "Did you actually see him?" 

Oh? You didnt, yeah, sorry Can you give the name of somebody that did? Also Mr. Source, could you explain to me why this has to be all hush hush?? Because you see Mr. Source, that makes no freaking sense at all why something like this would require anonymity.

Once you realize they don't actually care how reliable a source is, or if there even is one, it makes way more sense. 

 
I grasp the concept that there is literally no evidence that the law enforcement sources are made up.  Yet you keep making that baseless accusation which you refuse to back up.
The imaginary stories they told suggests they were imaginary actors. 

Here is where you fail at logic once again. It's not my job to disprove imaginary things.  The burden of proof is on those making the claim.  

 
The bold isnt possible if they followed the rules. They would have verified that the information was accurate. And obviously in this scenario they must have accepted third party accounts. Because things like a gash on the forehead wouldn't be wrong factually from a first hand witness. 

You can repeat all you want that OMG but it was two sources, and it means nothing. Nada. Zip. Because those sources were OBVIOUSLY not reliable. That is 100% factual. They don't meet any objective criteria for being a reliable source. I mean 0 for 2 is really bad on the same story. What kind of vetting process is that ffs? 

I mean how hard is it to freaking ask, "Did you actually see him?" 

Oh? You didnt, yeah, sorry Can you give the name of somebody that did? Also Mr. Source, could you explain to me why this has to be all hush hush?? Because you see Mr. Source, that makes no freaking sense at all why something like this would require anonymity.

Once you realize they don't actually care how reliable a source is, or if there even is one, it makes way more sense. 
Two sources were cited.  That is verifying it.  When you get two saying  the same thing...that is corroborated.

We know now they were wrong...but for what reason when they took they information they would they have thought those in LE were unreliable? 
Again, can you tell me one outlet  that wouldn’t have run that story?

 
The imaginary stories they told suggests they were imaginary actors. 

Here is where you fail at logic once again. It's not my job to disprove imaginary things.  The burden of proof is on those making the claim.  
So you are asserting the new source made up fake law enforcement and made the story up themselves.

Again, a very bog and baseless accusation to make without a shred of actual evidence.

Im not asking you to disprove imaginary things ...Im asking you to prove your claim.  And you continue to refuse to do so...

 
So you are asserting the new source made up fake law enforcement and made the story up themselves.

Again, a very bog and baseless accusation to make without a shred of actual evidence.

Im not asking you to disprove imaginary things ...Im asking you to prove your claim.  And you continue to refuse to do so...
You dont follow along so well.

You want me to prove the unnamed source of lies were real?   :lmao:

 
You dont follow along so well.

You want me to prove the unnamed source of lies were real?   :lmao:
I want you to bring anything at all showing that the unnamed sources were made up.  That they don’t exist.   That they were just fabricated for the story.

Because such an accusation would tale down a paper.

 
Two sources were cited.  That is verifying it.  When you get two saying  the same thing...that is corroborated.

We know now they were wrong...but for what reason when they took they information they would they have thought those in LE were unreliable? 
Again, can you tell me one outlet  that wouldn’t have run that story?
A second source obviously isnt vetting it. I mean are you purposely ignoring what happened here? You cant go 0 for 2 with anonymous sources and not be at fault. 

How the hell would I know who wouldnt run a story with original reporting using two bad sources? 

I would guess propublica wouldnt. I know they have a couple reporters that swear off using anonymous reporting for anything other than background. 

I am sure there are others. I mean obviously plenty of publications didnt promote original reporting of this, so any number of them are eligible. CNN obviously kept digging so it looks like they wouldnt have been fooled by these "sources" and obviously thought there was more to this.

WaPo and the NYT of 5 years ago sure as hell wouldnt have been tricked. The debbie ramirez story broke the dam open for the NYT. Not sure exactly when WaPo broke, i know in 2016 they still dug deep into things. 

 
I want you to bring anything at all showing that the unnamed sources were made up.  That they don’t exist.   That they were just fabricated for the story.

Because such an accusation would tale down a paper.
Tale down a paper?  English please.

Show me they are real. They are your imaginary friends. 

 
A second source obviously isnt vetting it. I mean are you purposely ignoring what happened here? You cant go 0 for 2 with anonymous sources and not be at fault. 

How the hell would I know who wouldnt run a story with original reporting using two bad sources? 

I would guess propublica wouldnt. I know they have a couple reporters that swear off using anonymous reporting for anything other than background. 

I am sure there are others. I mean obviously plenty of publications didnt promote original reporting of this, so any number of them are eligible. CNN obviously kept digging so it looks like they wouldnt have been fooled by these "sources" and obviously thought there was more to this.

WaPo and the NYT of 5 years ago sure as hell wouldnt have been tricked. The debbie ramirez story broke the dam open for the NYT. Not sure exactly when WaPo broke, i know in 2016 they still dug deep into things. 
It’s indefensible, especially considering it was being reported that the family was told it was a stroke, and that the brother talked to Sicknick the night of Jan 6th and said he had only been pepper sprayed.  Remember - contrary to the urban legend in here - the NY Times didn’t correct it’s article stating that he was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher until over a month later.

Doesn’t anyone else find it ironic that our resident Source Cop is the one defending bad sourcing here?

 
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Doesn’t anyone else find it ironic that our resident Source Cop is the one defending bad sourcing here?
The source cops on the board aren't really thinking about sourcing, they're in it for Team Blue. They'd have you believe that a press release from the Speaker's office is substantively correct and news. It's an old, stupid, tried game they play in bad faith.

 
It’s indefensible, especially considering it was being reported that the family was told it was a stroke, and that the brother talked to Sicknick the night of Jan 6th and said he had only been pepper sprayed.  Remember - contrary to the urban legend in here - the NY Times didn’t correct it’s article stating that he was hit over the head with a fire extinguisher until over a month later.

Doesn’t anyone else find it ironic that our resident Source Cop is the one defending bad sourcing here?
Im defending a source that received bad information.   From people claiming they had fake sources.

No irony needed.

 
The source cops on the board aren't really thinking about sourcing, they're in it for Team Blue. They'd have you believe that a press release from the Speaker's office is substantively correct and news. It's an old, stupid, tried game they play in bad faith.
Oh stop this bad faith thing.  That’s completely bogus.

Bad faith is claiming the sources they used in law enforcement were fabricated.

Bad faith is claiming getting the same info from two sources inside law enforcement is not vetting the information.

Bad faith is just claiming the NYT lied rather than got bad information from LE sources they trusted.

Bad faith is the continued personal BS that keeps getting slung around here

 
Oh stop this bad faith thing.  That’s completely bogus.

Bad faith is claiming the sources they used in law enforcement were fabricated.

Bad faith is claiming getting the same info from two sources inside law enforcement is not vetting the information.

Bad faith is just claiming the NYT lied rather than got bad information from LE sources they trusted.

Bad faith is the continued personal BS that keeps getting slung around here
Let's test your critical thinking skills. Which one is more likely?:

1 - MSM ran with lies they didnt properly source. 

2 - There really are cops who lied and said Sicknick had a bleeding head injury. 

Check and Mate. 

 
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Im defending a source that received bad information.   From people claiming they had fake sources.

No irony needed.
Oh I’m sorry.  I missed the part where you took The NY Times to task for not simply calling the family to get the truth, or for running with the bogus “bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher” story for over a month.

 
Let's test your critical thinking skills. Which one is more likely?:

1 - MSM ran with lies they didnt properly source. 

2 - There really are cops who lied and said Sicknick had a bleeding head injury. 

Check and Mate. 
3.  In the heat of the moment two sources hear the guy was hit with a fire extinguisher...(especially since video of the day shows them being used as weapons) and they tell a reporter.

How often do we hear there are multiple shooters in an active shooting...only to later find out there isn't?   Is it because the news made it up?   It when crap is going in people say things or think things.  Including law enforcement.

 
Oh I’m sorry.  I missed the part where you took The NY Times to task for not simply calling the family to get the truth, or for running with the bogus “bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher” story for over a month.
The story was changed when officials changed the details.   Which was early February.

 
3.  In the heat of the moment two sources hear the guy was hit with a fire extinguisher...(especially since video of the day shows them being used as weapons) and they tell a reporter.

How often do we hear there are multiple shooters in an active shooting...only to later find out there isn't?   Is it because the news made it up?   It when crap is going in people say things or think things.  Including law enforcement.
So #2 then. Just rephrased to fit inside your head. 

 Law enforcement officers are trained especially not to say those things. 

FAIL 

 

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