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Uber loses 1.2 billion in 6 months (1 Viewer)

TwinTurbo said:
We know their long term goal is the driverless car but now instead of paying a driver, they would still have to pay the owners of driverless cars. Would it scale from a cost perspective to buy/lease, operate, and maintain a global fleet of their own driverless cars? Uber offered a leasing program to UberX drivers through a subsidiary but all Uber cars are still owned or leased by the drivers.
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I think people are over-estimating the cost of maintaining the cars.  It would be like a taxi company that doesn't have to pay drivers (about 1/3 of the fare).

 
$1.50/mi average charge in a city including origination fee.... 

150k miles of life in a car... assume good efficiency so 70% of that with a passenger:

~$160k value generated by a car over it's life cycle....not counting surges. So maybe $200-250k in revenue generated?

Guessing $40-50k cost of cars when purchased in bulk? 
Assuming 50mpg: 2000 gallons of fuel at $2.50/gallon = $5000 or so in fuel costs over life of vehicle. 
Factoring in maintenance & insurance maybe $75k total cost of vehicle over lifespan, so $125-175k cleared per vehicle on the road over it's lifespan (couple/few years)?

Disclaimer: Wild assumptions. 
 

 
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cstu said:
I think people are over-estimating the cost of maintaining the cars.  It would be like a taxi company that doesn't have to pay drivers (about 1/3 of the fare).
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I think people are underestimating the cost of the space to store a fleet of cars, in addition to leasing and maintainence. In major cities like NYC or SF, these would be entirely new costs for Uber and massively expensive. They would gain another advantage over taxis in that there would be no dip during shift changes since there is no driver. But they would still have to rent large commercial spaces to store and maintain the driverless cars when not in use.

 
Walking Boot said:
That describes a pyramid scheme, too, doesn't it?
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I suppose, but I think the similarities stop there.  Investment is a pretty natural way to start a business.  Obviously the hope is that at some point the business makes money or can be sold to another entity that can make money out of it.  That's never a possibility in a pyramid scheme.

Uber won't always be as cheap as it is now, but if they have enough market share that won't matter.

 
TwinTurbo said:
I think people are underestimating the cost of the space to store a fleet of cars, in addition to leasing and maintainence. In major cities like NYC or SF, these would be entirely new costs for Uber and massively expensive. They would gain another advantage over taxis in that there would be no dip during shift changes since there is no driver. But they would still have to rent large commercial spaces to store and maintain the driverless cars when not in use.
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Could be, but I assume Uber has run the numbers and they are still pursuing driverless cars.

 
jonessed said:
These losses are inflated because they were forced to write off their business in China.  Their normal losses can be sustained as long as private investors keep pumping cash into them.

They are in a number of lawsuits trying to keep their drivers as contractors as well.  If they lose that fight the next step is likely unions.

They have quite a few obstacles to overcome before they get to driverless car fleet.
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I think as part of their settlement with their Chinese competitor they get a stake in that company. 

 
Walking Boot said:
I'm also confused by Uber's strategy for driverless cars. They'll pay way more to buy a fleet and manage it (maintenance, refuel/recharge, clean, wear & tear) than they're paying to drivers now. I mean, each car is going to be what, $60k, just to get it in the fleet, then all the regular costs... if they're losing money now, where they're getting drivers & cars cheaply, how much will they lose when they have to pay a million dollars for every 15 cars they add to the service?

Or are they expecting citizens to buy driverless cars then turn them over to Uber when they're not using them themselves? Which will only be really used by speculators/early adopters in an effort to build their own fleets for income.
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Isis doesn't seem to have any problem buying cars.

 
TwinTurbo said:
I think people are underestimating the cost of the space to store a fleet of cars, in addition to leasing and maintainence. In major cities like NYC or SF, these would be entirely new costs for Uber and massively expensive. They would gain another advantage over taxis in that there would be no dip during shift changes since there is no driver. But they would still have to rent large commercial spaces to store and maintain the driverless cars when not in use.
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cant they just park them in front of Chet's house?

 
If you think UberX cars are smelly and old, then stop requesting UberX and request UberSelect instead. Drivers have to have newer cars with leather seats to be on UberSelect. Still cheaper than a cab in most markets. 

 
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TwinTurbo said:
I think people are underestimating the cost of the space to store a fleet of cars, in addition to leasing and maintainence. In major cities like NYC or SF, these would be entirely new costs for Uber and massively expensive. They would gain another advantage over taxis in that there would be no dip during shift changes since there is no driver. But they would still have to rent large commercial spaces to store and maintain the driverless cars when not in use.
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My understanding is people would own driverless cars and let Uber use them for a fee when they aren't using it. It would then return to the owner at a pre-scheduled time.

 
Politician Spock said:
My understanding is people would own driverless cars and let Uber use them for a fee when they aren't using it. It would then return to the owner at a pre-scheduled time.
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I am pretty sure that the driverless cars will still have an Uber employee in them.

 
Capella said:
At first I believe there was. Car had to be no more than 6 or 7 years old. I knew a guy who did it and he said they actually came and inspected his car. That's obviously gone away. 
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I was talking to a driver Saturday. She applied on her phone, sent them pics of her car & insurance. Never met with anyone.

 
You ####wads complaining about your Uber should try living in Austin. We're practically horse and carriage here.

 
I'll NEVER step foot in a driverless car.  If I am to die in a fiery crash, my hands will be the ones melted on the steering wheel.  Not some sky net robot's.

 
Christo said:
I was talking to a driver Saturday. She applied on her phone, sent them pics of her car & insurance. Never met with anyone.
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Yea this was at least 18 months ago. The most recent drivers I had both told me this was their first week (one was his first drive) and they also did it over the phone. 

It just seems like they lost any semblance of quality control. 

 
bentley said:
You ####wads complaining about your Uber should try living in Austin. We're practically horse and carriage here.
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They (politicians + lobbyists) are trying to give Uber the boot in Houston as well.  Can't imagine living without it in a city with such piss poor public transportation and terrible cab service.  

 
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Apple seems to be a player as well, with them invested in the China company I could see them getting rid of the bugs and hitting the states hard. 

 
Politician Spock said:
My understanding is people would own driverless cars and let Uber use them for a fee when they aren't using it. It would then return to the owner at a pre-scheduled time.
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No one is going to lend Uber their car to ferry around drunks and weirdos.

Uber is already buying cars and trucks for its self-driving fleet:

Uber’s Pittsburgh fleet, which will be supervised by humans in the driver’s seat for the time being, consists of specially modified Volvo XC90 sport-utility vehicles outfitted with dozens of sensors that use cameras, lasers, radar, and GPS receivers. Volvo Cars has so far delivered a handful of vehicles out of a total of 100 due by the end of the year. The two companies signed a pact earlier this year to spend $300 million to develop a fully autonomous car that will be ready for the road by 2021.
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Walking Boot said:
Right now, the drivers are subsidizing Uber, by taking on the costs of insurance
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I think almost all of the crashes the Google test vehicles have been in have been the fault of the other driver (or maybe just the only driver in this case ha).  Eventually, insurance cost should come down without as many wrecks.  Maybe we will start needing hacking insurance through or something.

 
What happens when government gets in the game?  Surely cities will use self-driving buses.  And once cities do that, its just a matter of time before they offer self-driving cars.  Government can undercut Uber, Lyft, Apple, etc. by subsidizing the rides with taxes and drive them from the marketplace.

 
cstu said:
No one is going to lend Uber their car to ferry around drunks and weirdos.

Uber is already buying cars and trucks for its self-driving fleet:
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I'm going to be in Pittsburgh next week. I wonder how ubiquitous these are going to be. I'm going to be using Uber from the airport to downtown. Would love to see one of these pull up. 

 
Riversco said:
What happens when government gets in the game?  Surely cities will use self-driving buses.  And once cities do that, its just a matter of time before they offer self-driving cars.  Government can undercut Uber, Lyft, Apple, etc. by subsidizing the rides with taxes and drive them from the marketplace.
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Great!

 
Last week we flew into LGA and took a cab to our East Village apt. The cab fare was $36 + $10 tip. On the way back to the airport we took UBER (our first UBER experience). The fare was $26 and I tipped him a fiver though not required. It took the driver 11 minutes to pick us up after initiating the app, and I enjoyed watching him zeroing in our locale via my phone. UBER just recently became available in my sticks town in FL- what's not to like?

 
I'm taking a class at UCLA where parking $12 - using Uber Pool to get there is a little over $5 each way. 

ETA: actually costs me $8 round trip. 

 
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Hope they don’t go under. I love my 10 dollar rides into the city to drink, see a game, or show. I normally would pay triple that to park.

 
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