UFC wagering: no longer stuck with the old thread title. The window to change it is here! (6 Viewers)

[Clayton Gray]

I haven't watched the replay of the fight, but I remember Rogan screaming early on that Cain landed a big knee on Lesnar. Did that knee connect? It seemed that things went downhill real quick after that point. A big knee certainly is a fight changer.

Yeah, I thought the knee deflated Lesnar completely.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

With a ADCC level grappling.

Submission knowledge/defense =/= ability to stop a take down.Brock would smother Overeem just the same way he did to Mir. Also, Overeem's ADCC accomplishments are not as accomplished as someone like Werdum. Overeem fought in European trials and tapped out 4 opponents with a guillotine vs Werdum who actually placed. While Overeem is just as big as Brock Lesnar, he doesn't have the natural/farmer/country/old man/whatever you want to call it strength. There's a huge difference in strength between a guy who has been a heavyweight his whole life vs. a fighter who bulked up from middle weight.

Overeem's ground game is certainly not elite level like Werdum, of course, but his record in ADCC shows he's not slouch on the ground if the fight got there. Overeem is so incredibly comfortable striking with anyone at HW that he'd be able to put an insane amount of pressure on Lesnar just walking him down while remaining crouched to defend a takedown attempt. Lesnar would constantly be in danger of being finished if he wasn't on top of AO at all times. With almost 0 threat of striking and no size advantage, although Lesnar probably has a strength advantage, I think AO defend a takedown attempt and even if Lesnar is successful at getting him down, AO's far from finished.

 

[george]

My first time watching Ben Askren. Dude is relentless.

Link to watch?

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Lyman_Good...671&tid=100http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Lyman_Good...672&tid=100

Thanks. I'm a big wrestling fan.

 

[No. 16]

With a ADCC level grappling.

Submission knowledge/defense =/= ability to stop a take down.Brock would smother Overeem just the same way he did to Mir. Also, Overeem's ADCC accomplishments are not as accomplished as someone like Werdum. Overeem fought in European trials and tapped out 4 opponents with a guillotine vs Werdum who actually placed. While Overeem is just as big as Brock Lesnar, he doesn't have the natural/farmer/country/old man/whatever you want to call it strength. There's a huge difference in strength between a guy who has been a heavyweight his whole life vs. a fighter who bulked up from middle weight.

Overeem's ground game is certainly not elite level like Werdum, of course, but his record in ADCC shows he's not slouch on the ground if the fight got there. Overeem is so incredibly comfortable striking with anyone at HW that he'd be able to put an insane amount of pressure on Lesnar just walking him down while remaining crouched to defend a takedown attempt. Lesnar would constantly be in danger of being finished if he wasn't on top of AO at all times. With almost 0 threat of striking and no size advantage, although Lesnar probably has a strength advantage, I think AO defend a takedown attempt and even if Lesnar is successful at getting him down, AO's far from finished.

Not disagreeing with a single thing you said, but great wrestling neutralizes great striking, IMO. This isn't a statement about Brock's greatness, but the current direction of MMA is that great wrestling ability trumps all in MMA.Cain won the match because he is GREAT WRESTLER with great striking and enough size to compete with Lesnar. Carwin was able to do well against Brock because he had a solid wrestling background, equal size, and exceptional power. That's the game plan to beat Brock right now and outside of the 3 guys mentioned I don't think anyone else matches up as well with Brock.

 

[Glaven]

I'm sure this was already said to death, but Kampman got screwed.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

With a ADCC level grappling.

Submission knowledge/defense =/= ability to stop a take down.Brock would smother Overeem just the same way he did to Mir. Also, Overeem's ADCC accomplishments are not as accomplished as someone like Werdum. Overeem fought in European trials and tapped out 4 opponents with a guillotine vs Werdum who actually placed. While Overeem is just as big as Brock Lesnar, he doesn't have the natural/farmer/country/old man/whatever you want to call it strength. There's a huge difference in strength between a guy who has been a heavyweight his whole life vs. a fighter who bulked up from middle weight.

Overeem's ground game is certainly not elite level like Werdum, of course, but his record in ADCC shows he's not slouch on the ground if the fight got there. Overeem is so incredibly comfortable striking with anyone at HW that he'd be able to put an insane amount of pressure on Lesnar just walking him down while remaining crouched to defend a takedown attempt. Lesnar would constantly be in danger of being finished if he wasn't on top of AO at all times. With almost 0 threat of striking and no size advantage, although Lesnar probably has a strength advantage, I think AO defend a takedown attempt and even if Lesnar is successful at getting him down, AO's far from finished.

Not disagreeing with a single thing you said, but great wrestling neutralizes great striking, IMO. This isn't a statement about Brock's greatness, but the current direction of MMA is that great wrestling ability trumps all in MMA.Cain won the match because he is GREAT WRESTLER with great striking and enough size to compete with Lesnar. Carwin was able to do well against Brock because he had a solid wrestling background, equal size, and exceptional power. That's the game plan to beat Brock right now and outside of the 3 guys mentioned I don't think anyone else matches up as well with Brock.

IMO striking really opens up wrestling and vice versa in MMA. Without the threat of one, it really hinders a fighter. I think AO's striking is so far advanced that he can remain crotched in a defensive wrestling stance, where Brock should not be able to take him down, and sit within striking range with Brock with very little concern for getting hit.I don't think Cain's striking is anywhere near great, however, I thought it was clearly superior to Lesnar and thought it would really make all options easier for Cain in UFC 121.

 

[hooter311]

I'm sure this was already said to death, but Kampman got screwed.

I took a major bath Saturday night, good thing I was wasted.1-4 Main Event. I say always take the best wrestler, and then my bets all up losing to guys that were better wrestlers.

 

[Smiles&Cries]

I'm sure this was already said to death, but Kampman got screwed.

How? What did he do to win the fight? Nothing, Shields didn't do much either but just because Kampman has a decent defense does not equal him getting screwed.

 

[modogg]

Still salty from Saturday night, so here we go:

Junior Dos Santos +190 over Cain Valasquez

Having Cain more then a 2-1 favorite is off. My guess is this line will either come back down to reality, but I think JDS at those odds is a good bet.

 

[slayer666]

I'm sure this was already said to death, but Kampman got screwed.

How? What did he do to win the fight? Nothing, Shields didn't do much either but just because Kampman has a decent defense does not equal him getting screwed.

Neither one of them did anything to win the fight. Shields/Kampmann was a sorry ### excuse for a co-main event.

 

[Sebowski]

With a ADCC level grappling.

Submission knowledge/defense =/= ability to stop a take down.Brock would smother Overeem just the same way he did to Mir. Also, Overeem's ADCC accomplishments are not as accomplished as someone like Werdum. Overeem fought in European trials and tapped out 4 opponents with a guillotine vs Werdum who actually placed. While Overeem is just as big as Brock Lesnar, he doesn't have the natural/farmer/country/old man/whatever you want to call it strength. There's a huge difference in strength between a guy who has been a heavyweight his whole life vs. a fighter who bulked up from middle weight.

Overeem's ground game is certainly not elite level like Werdum, of course, but his record in ADCC shows he's not slouch on the ground if the fight got there. Overeem is so incredibly comfortable striking with anyone at HW that he'd be able to put an insane amount of pressure on Lesnar just walking him down while remaining crouched to defend a takedown attempt. Lesnar would constantly be in danger of being finished if he wasn't on top of AO at all times. With almost 0 threat of striking and no size advantage, although Lesnar probably has a strength advantage, I think AO defend a takedown attempt and even if Lesnar is successful at getting him down, AO's far from finished.

Overeem may be one of the best heavyweight strikers in the history of MMA, but his ground game sucks, and his takedown defense sucks. Lesnar would kill him, Cain would kill him, and Shane would beat him, and if Mir left his ego in the back, he would submit him too.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

With a ADCC level grappling.

Submission knowledge/defense =/= ability to stop a take down.Brock would smother Overeem just the same way he did to Mir. Also, Overeem's ADCC accomplishments are not as accomplished as someone like Werdum. Overeem fought in European trials and tapped out 4 opponents with a guillotine vs Werdum who actually placed.

While Overeem is just as big as Brock Lesnar, he doesn't have the natural/farmer/country/old man/whatever you want to call it strength. There's a huge difference in strength between a guy who has been a heavyweight his whole life vs. a fighter who bulked up from middle weight.

Overeem's ground game is certainly not elite level like Werdum, of course, but his record in ADCC shows he's not slouch on the ground if the fight got there. Overeem is so incredibly comfortable striking with anyone at HW that he'd be able to put an insane amount of pressure on Lesnar just walking him down while remaining crouched to defend a takedown attempt. Lesnar would constantly be in danger of being finished if he wasn't on top of AO at all times. With almost 0 threat of striking and no size advantage, although Lesnar probably has a strength advantage, I think AO defend a takedown attempt and even if Lesnar is successful at getting him down, AO's far from finished.

Overeem may be one of the best heavyweight strikers in the history of MMA, but his ground game sucks, and his takedown defense sucks. Lesnar would kill him, Cain would kill him, and Shane would beat him, and if Mir left his ego in the back, he would submit him too.

Really? I think the 19 guys he has submitted would beg to differ.

 

[Bobcat10]

Not sure where this belongs but it's some news I'm sure you've heard by now (long rumored for sure):

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/10/28/dana...2011/2#comments

World Extreme Cagefighting is merging with its sister organization the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

In the video interview below, Dana White exclusively confirmed that the merger will take place in January 2011. In addition, White said that four UFC events will air live on Versus in 2011.

The final two WEC cards will air on the cable network on Nov. 11 and Dec. 16, which means that starting next year, the UFC will absorb WEC's 135, 145 and 155 weight classes.

White explained the timing of the decision and what this means for all parties involved. He also provided updates on what's next for Brock Lesnar and Tito Ortiz, as well as his take on the Undertaker-Lesnar exchange following UFC 121.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Not sure where this belongs but it's some news I'm sure you've heard by now (long rumored for sure):

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/10/28/dana...2011/2#comments

World Extreme Cagefighting is merging with its sister organization the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

In the video interview below, Dana White exclusively confirmed that the merger will take place in January 2011. In addition, White said that four UFC events will air live on Versus in 2011.

The final two WEC cards will air on the cable network on Nov. 11 and Dec. 16, which means that starting next year, the UFC will absorb WEC's 135, 145 and 155 weight classes.

White explained the timing of the decision and what this means for all parties involved. He also provided updates on what's next for Brock Lesnar and Tito Ortiz, as well as his take on the Undertaker-Lesnar exchange following UFC 121.

Awesome

 

[Al_Czervik]

Not sure where this belongs but it's some news I'm sure you've heard by now (long rumored for sure):

I'd actually rathar see the lighter guys have their own brand, but this was bound to happen. I'm just bracing myself for even more "pound-for-pound the best blah blah blah" statements.

 

[modogg]

Not sure where this belongs but it's some news I'm sure you've heard by now (long rumored for sure):

I'd actually rathar see the lighter guys have their own brand, but this was bound to happen. I'm just bracing myself for even more "pound-for-pound the best blah blah blah" statements.

i'm real happy the WEC guys can make some good money now, the payouts from the WEC cards were pretty rough. i wonder how many Fight of the Night awards will go to some of former WEC fighters?

 

[Clayton Gray]

Loving the UFC / WEC merge. Those little dudes deserves bigger paydays.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Gonzaga cut. Not a big surprise.

Henderson/Pittis winner gets a LW title shot.

 

[Al_Czervik]

Gonzaga cut. Not a big surprise.

Is it a given he goes directly to Strikeforce? They'd take him in an instant, wouldn't they?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Gonzaga cut. Not a big surprise.

Is it a given he goes directly to Strikeforce? They'd take him in an instant, wouldn't they?

Based on his cryptic comments he sounded like he may be done with pro fighting.

 

[scoobus]

Gonzaga cut. Not a big surprise.

Is it a given he goes directly to Strikeforce? They'd take him in an instant, wouldn't they?

Based on his cryptic comments he sounded like he may be done with pro fighting.

That would suck, the guy has great talent. Unfortunately since the Cro Cop fight he thinks he's a standup fighter.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Gonzaga cut. Not a big surprise.

Is it a given he goes directly to Strikeforce? They'd take him in an instant, wouldn't they?

Based on his cryptic comments he sounded like he may be done with pro fighting.

That would suck, the guy has great talent. Unfortunately since the Cro Cop fight he thinks he's a standup fighter.

He showed his BJJ for the last couple seconds of his last fight... why the hell he doesn't use it for the whole fight is baffling.

 

[Clayton Gray]

Heavens, UFC 126 is loaded!

Champ Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort (for middleweight title)

Forrest Griffin vs. Rich Franklin

Ryan Bader vs. Jon Jones

Jake Ellenberger vs. Jon Fitch

Antonio Banuelos vs. Miguel Torres

 

[Clayton Gray]

UFC 125 pretty good too

Champ Frankie Edgar vs. Gray Maynard (for lightweight title)

Champ Jose Aldo vs. Josh Grispi (for featherweight title)

Takanori Gomi vs. Clay Guida

Chris Leben vs. Brian Stann

Nate Diaz vs. Dong Hyun Kim

Thiago Silva vs. Brandon Vera

 

[sheerterror]

Heavens, UFC 126 is loaded!

Champ Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort (for middleweight title)

Forrest Griffin vs. Rich Franklin

Ryan Bader vs. Jon Jones

Jake Ellenberger vs. Jon Fitch

Antonio Banuelos vs. Miguel Torres

Although it's a shame that Franklin-Griffin will be hyped as the "co-main event."

 

[modogg]

UFC 125 pretty good too

Champ Frankie Edgar vs. Gray Maynard (for lightweight title)

Champ Jose Aldo vs. Josh Grispi (for featherweight title)

Takanori Gomi vs. Clay Guida

Chris Leben vs. Brian Stann

Nate Diaz vs. Dong Hyun Kim

Thiago Silva vs. Brandon Vera

I think if we are looking for excitement on a card, 125 may be better then 126. Gomi-Guida, Leben-Stann, Diaz-Kim, and Silva-Vera could all be potential fight of the night candidates. I am sure Brian Stann is pumped about finally fighting a guy who isn't mainly a wrestler.

 

[Clayton Gray]

Urijah Faber looks outstanding at 135.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

great 3 day stretch of free fights with WEC last night, and ...

For those of you with HDNet -- MFC 27 is on tonight. I've caught most of their cards over the past couple years, they're usually pretty entertaining. Douglas Lima is fighting tonight, and he looked AMAZING last time I saw him beat Ryan Ford at MFC26 . He trains out of ATT Atlanta and I'm pretty excited to see what kind of splash he's going to make. The rest of the fights include some ex-UFCers you may recall -- Pete Spratt, David Heath and Razak Al-Hassan (who you may remember from when Steve Cantwell turned his arm into a ####### wet noodle at the UFC "Fight for the Troops" in Dec 2008).

And, Sat night is UFC 122 -- a freebie that will air on Spike on tape delay. Stay away from spoilers tomorrow afternoon!

My picks for 122

Krzysztof Soszynski over Goran Reljic 2nd round KO

Amir Sadollah over Peter Sobotta 3rd rd sub

Andre Winner over Dennis Siver via dec

Jorge Rivera over Alessio Sakara 1st rd KO

Yushin Okami with the upset over Nate Marquardt via dec

 

[modogg]

great 3 day stretch of free fights with WEC last night, and ...

For those of you with HDNet -- MFC 27 is on tonight. I've caught most of their cards over the past couple years, they're usually pretty entertaining. Douglas Lima is fighting tonight, and he looked AMAZING last time I saw him beat Ryan Ford at MFC26 . He trains out of ATT Atlanta and I'm pretty excited to see what kind of splash he's going to make. The rest of the fights include some ex-UFCers you may recall -- Pete Spratt, David Heath and Razak Al-Hassan (who you may remember from when Steve Cantwell turned his arm into a ####### wet noodle at the UFC "Fight for the Troops" in Dec 2008).

And, Sat night is UFC 122 -- a freebie that will air on Spike on tape delay. Stay away from spoilers tomorrow afternoon!

My picks for 122

Krzysztof Soszynski over Goran Reljic 2nd round KO

Amir Sadollah over Peter Sobotta 3rd rd sub

Andre Winner over Dennis Siver via dec

Jorge Rivera over Alessio Sakara 1st rd KO

Yushin Okami with the upset over Nate Marquardt via dec

Interesting call with Okami over Nate. I like Nate a lot, but the style match-up and Okami's training with Chael certainly leaves the door open for a similar fight. I only have one bet in so far:Jorge Rivera -120 1.8 units: I'm not convinced Sakara can win that. He doesn't have the power to take Rivera out, and Rivera will go after him. I like this one quite a bit

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

For those of you with HDNet -- MFC 27 is on tonight. I've caught most of their cards over the past couple years, they're usually pretty entertaining. Douglas Lima is fighting tonight, and he looked AMAZING last time I saw him beat Ryan Ford at MFC26 . He trains out of ATT Atlanta and I'm pretty excited to see what kind of splash he's going to make. The rest of the fights include some ex-UFCers you may recall -- Pete Spratt, David Heath and Razak Al-Hassan (who you may remember from when Steve Cantwell turned his arm into a ####### wet noodle at the UFC "Fight for the Troops" in Dec 2008).

Mostly dull card tonight. But, in the main event, Lima pulled another sub from his back tonight (traingle / straight armbar) after getting wrestler-controlled / GnP'd for nearly 3 rounds. I'm not sure if it speaks more to the minor-league level of competition I've seen him against so far, or more a testament to his skills, but man this guy looks good. So dangerous with subs from any position. Fun to watch. Lima's now the MFC Welterweight champ.

 

[modogg]

There are a few good MMA sites out there, but I have to say I really love checking middleeasy.com on Sundays. They have this feature called Sunday rumor mill. The site itself is okay, but they really have some rumors on here that are good.

here is this week's: http://middleeasy.com/index.php?option=com...4rganizations

And while I am plugging away here, I have to say I am happy with mu subscription to "Fight" magazine. it has gone down a bit the last few issues with some dumb articles on bands that are into MMA and other goofy stuff, but overall it is still real good. This last month there was a good article in about BJ Penn and they got comments from Shawn Tompkins and Greg Jackson about how BJ is doing. Pretty good insight, and has me feeling like i will arbitrage (goofy term for betting both sides at good odds where you can guarantee money) this one, like i should have done with Brock Lesnar

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Ya, I've had a sub to Fight! mag for about a year now. It's a good one. About the only readable MMA mag out there imo.

 

[Bobcat10]

bump for saturday card...

 

[Cliff Clavin]

bump for saturday card...

Great card.Have a bit on Sotiropolous and Machida.

 

[Abrantes]

Have a bit on Sotiropolous and Machida.

Love watching Sotiropoulos. J-Lau can always pull something out of his hat by going all-out in the first round, but I think Greek George's technical superiority will see him through here.Predictions:

Lyoto Machida (16-1) vs. Quinton “Rampage” Jackson (30-8)

B.J. Penn (15-7-1) vs. Matt Hughes (45-7)

Gerald Harris (17-2) vs. Maiquel Falcão (25-3)

Phil Davis (7-0) vs. Tim Boetsch (12-3)

George Sotiropoulos (13-2) vs. Joe Lauzon (19-5)

Mark Munoz (8-2) vs. Aaron Simpson (7-1)

Rory MacDonald (10-1) vs. Matt Brown (11-9)

Karo Parisyan (19-5) vs. Dennis Hallman (45-13-2)

Mike Lullo (8-2) vs. Edson Barboza (6-0)

Paul Kelly (10-3) vs. T.J. O’Brien (16-3)

Nik Lentz (19-3-2) vs. Tyson Griffin (14-4)

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Have a bit on Sotiropolous and Machida.

Love watching Sotiropoulos. J-Lau can always pull something out of his hat by going all-out in the first round, but I think Greek George's technical superiority will see him through here.Predictions:

Lyoto Machida (16-1) vs. Quinton “Rampage” Jackson (30-8)

B.J. Penn (15-7-1) vs. Matt Hughes (45-7)

Gerald Harris (17-2) vs. Maiquel Falcão (25-3)

Phil Davis (7-0) vs. Tim Boetsch (12-3)

George Sotiropoulos (13-2) vs. Joe Lauzon (19-5)

Mark Munoz (8-2) vs. Aaron Simpson (7-1)

Rory MacDonald (10-1) vs. Matt Brown (11-9)

Karo Parisyan (19-5) vs. Dennis Hallman (45-13-2)

Mike Lullo (8-2) vs. Edson Barboza (6-0)

Paul Kelly (10-3) vs. T.J. O’Brien (16-3)

Nik Lentz (19-3-2) vs. Tyson Griffin (14-4)

Watching Sotiropoulos on the ground is a thing of beauty. No lay and pray from him, constantly moving.

 

[Sebowski]

Rory MacDonald (10-1) vs. Matt Brown (11-9)

Brown is fighting Brian Foster. I'm thinking of betting on Brown at +115. Anyone know anything about Foster? Looking at his record I know I've had to have seen him fight, but can't remember.

 

[Bobcat10]

bump for saturday card...

Great card.Have a bit on Sotiropolous and Machida.

Sotir is one of my favs...I'll have a bit on him also. I haven't read much that let's me think Rampage is gonna pull this one off....although you have to like those odds.I like Penn too....probably a parlay with the two other big favs Davis and Barboza.

 

[Abrantes]

Rory MacDonald (10-1) vs. Matt Brown (11-9)

Brown is fighting Brian Foster. I'm thinking of betting on Brown at +115. Anyone know anything about Foster? Looking at his record I know I've had to have seen him fight, but can't remember.

My bad, you're right. Just copied an old list, but was actually thinking Foster.

 

[modogg]

Rory MacDonald (10-1) vs. Matt Brown (11-9)

Brown is fighting Brian Foster. I'm thinking of betting on Brown at +115. Anyone know anything about Foster? Looking at his record I know I've had to have seen him fight, but can't remember.

My bad, you're right. Just copied an old list, but was actually thinking Foster.

I'm on Brian Foster. There have been a few guys to comer out of the WW and LW divisions lately that have had good showings, and I think Foster's real good showing was his fight against Rick Story. I think her looked fantastic in that one (this is all of the top of my head, but i think this is the fight that put Foster out there). i know he destroyed Brock Larson after that, and I can't remember after that. Either way, here is what i am going with:Tyson Griffin -200, 1.5 units: I think Griffin is better then Lentz in every facet of this fight. I know Griffin has been beat up pretty good lately, but Lentz can't lay n pray his way to a decision in this one

Mark Munoz -120, 1 unit: This is a dopey bet, but i am still holding out that Munoz is a guy who will be succesful in the UFC. I haven't been too impressed with Simpson

Dennis Hallman +120, .75 unit: I got a better line yesterday i think when i took it, but even if Karo is back to the old Karo, he has only had one fight in the UFC since last January

Also like a couple of others, have a parlay with quite a few of the favorites including Harris, Sotiropolous, Machida, etc. Depending how some of these college football plays go and the undercard goes i will see what else i play. I'm liking some of the favorites quite a bit, but hope to see some of the lines get better. Especially Machida

 

[John Bender]

Sotiropolous should smash J-Lau IMO

 

[Bobcat10]

Watching Unleashed and BJ is crushin'!

 

[Abrantes]

The schadenfreude is delicious.

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[John Bender]

Putting everything on Sotiropolous - he should be -600

 

[modogg]

The schadenfreude is delicious.
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

I couldn't resist, i had to check. Will have to hope to see that one, really frustrating when score cards are contradictory. there are some rounds that are tougher to call, and considering these 2 maybe that is what happened

 

[modogg]

Putting everything on Sotiropolous - he should be -600

I liked it much better when George was under-rated (he was around +240 or something when he fought Joe Stevenson), but i agree his stand-up and ground game certainly both look to not have many weaknesses

 

[Sebowski]

With a ADCC level grappling.

Submission knowledge/defense =/= ability to stop a take down.Brock would smother Overeem just the same way he did to Mir. Also, Overeem's ADCC accomplishments are not as accomplished as someone like Werdum. Overeem fought in European trials and tapped out 4 opponents with a guillotine vs Werdum who actually placed.

While Overeem is just as big as Brock Lesnar, he doesn't have the natural/farmer/country/old man/whatever you want to call it strength. There's a huge difference in strength between a guy who has been a heavyweight his whole life vs. a fighter who bulked up from middle weight.

Overeem's ground game is certainly not elite level like Werdum, of course, but his record in ADCC shows he's not slouch on the ground if the fight got there. Overeem is so incredibly comfortable striking with anyone at HW that he'd be able to put an insane amount of pressure on Lesnar just walking him down while remaining crouched to defend a takedown attempt. Lesnar would constantly be in danger of being finished if he wasn't on top of AO at all times. With almost 0 threat of striking and no size advantage, although Lesnar probably has a strength advantage, I think AO defend a takedown attempt and even if Lesnar is successful at getting him down, AO's far from finished.

Overeem may be one of the best heavyweight strikers in the history of MMA, but his ground game sucks, and his takedown defense sucks. Lesnar would kill him, Cain would kill him, and Shane would beat him, and if Mir left his ego in the back, he would submit him too.

Really? I think the 19 guys he has submitted would beg to differ.

Brings up an interesting question:: Do standing guillotines give you ground game points? Also, Gargy Goodridge, James Thompson, and Paul Buentello can beg all they want. I'm not judging anyone's sub skill by how many times they tapped those guys.

 

[D'OHtis]

Karo Parisyan vs. Dennis Hallman

Round 1

Parisyan jumps right into the fray and lands a one-two to open the fight. He pushes in and clinches Hallman along the cage.Referee Dan Miragliotta steps in and breaks them up due to inactivity. Hallman lands a left jab and a right hand that drops Parisyan. Hallman pounces and punches away for the stoppage at 1:27 of the opening period.

####### awesome. I've always hated that #####. Hope the guy never see the UFC again.



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[Abrantes]

Brings up an interesting question: Do standing guillotines give you ground game points?

 

[Sebowski]

Brings up an interesting question: Do standing guillotines give you ground game points?

That's what I thought.