Unrest in Milwaukee (1 Viewer)

[Cjw_55106]

Is it true the cop was black?

That is true. 

 

[belljr]

That is true. 

All right then.   Not to make light of of the situation but what is the grounds for this faux outrage?

 

[Cjw_55106]

All right then.   Not to make light of of the situation but what is the grounds for this faux outrage?

Pretty sure there are none. Indications are that the man was armed. 

 

[shadyridr]

All right then.   Not to make light of of the situation but what is the grounds for this faux outrage?

Cop killed black man.

 

[William Munny]

Rock solid killing of a total loser. The world is far better off with trash like this 6 feet under ground.
Sheriff Clarke has viewed the footage and this turdlet was shot in the chest. He set everyone in the media straight already an hour ago before they could fan the flames more. The guy is awesome.

 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Is it true the cop was black?

I'm betting he still is.

 

[mquinnjr]

This is the top story on CNN, Fox, and ABC. This isn't even on the front page of MSNBC.  Disgusting.

If MSNBC covered this, would likely be all that was presented (from the USA Today link):

Khalif Rainey delivering strongly worded statements about the disturbance springing from the frustrations of black Milwaukeeans and the problems they face.

Rainey, who represents the area where the man was shot by the officer and the disturbance occurred, was particularly pointed. He said Sherman Park had become “a powder keg” this summer, and ended his remarks by implying that downtown could be the site of disturbances if the issues facing African-Americans here not addressed.

“This entire community has sat back and witnessed how Milwaukee, Wis., has become the worst place to live for African-Americans in the entire country,” Rainey said. “Now this is a warning cry. Where do we go from here? Where do we go as a community from here?

“Do we continue – continue with the inequities, the injustice, the unemployment, the under-education, that creates these byproducts that we see this evening? … The black people of Milwaukee are tired. They’re tired of living under this oppression. This is their existence. This is their life. This is the life of their children.

“Now what has happened tonight may have not been right; I’m not justifying that. But no one can deny the fact that there’s problems, racial problems, here in Milwaukee, Wis., that have to be closely, not examined, but rectified. Rectify this immediately. Because if you don’t, this vision of downtown, all of that, you’re one day away. You’re one day away.”

We don't do facts, we do violence when not appeased is how I read this.

 

[Sand]

Khalif Rainey delivering strongly worded statements about the disturbance springing from the frustrations of black Milwaukeeans and the problems they face.

Rainey, who represents the area where the man was shot by the officer and the disturbance occurred, was particularly pointed. He said Sherman Park had become “a powder keg” this summer, and ended his remarks by implying that downtown could be the site of disturbances if the issues facing African-Americans here not addressed.

“This entire community has sat back and witnessed how Milwaukee, Wis., has become the worst place to live for African-Americans in the entire country,” Rainey said. 

I think we can safely say he's wrong here.  In the last week Chicago saw 100 people shot, 20 of those dead (think about that: 100 people shot - who knows how many bullets missed).   I don't see how you call that anything but a warzone.   Milwaukee isn't quite there yet.

 

[Henry Ford]

Haven't seen anything on this because I've been dealing with flood waters, but I've never imagined Milwaukee as a stronghold of good choices.  These riots seem pretty stupid.

 

[Godsbrother]

If MSNBC covered this, would likely be all that was presented (from the USA Today link):

We don't do facts, we do violence when not appeased is how I read this.

MSNBC has this as one of the top stories on their website.  

While they do contain the quote above they also report that Smith was armed, fled the police and turned towards the officers with the gun.  They also say Smith had a lengthy arrest record and 23 rounds in the gun.  

 

[Godsbrother]

Haven't seen anything on this because I've been dealing with flood waters, but I've never imagined Milwaukee as a stronghold of good choices.  These riots seem pretty stupid.

These riots have very little to do with the police shootings.  It is just an excuse for unemployed angry low lifes to act like animals.

 

[mquinnjr]

MSNBC has this as one of the top stories on their website.  

While they do contain the quote above they also report that Smith was armed, fled the police and turned towards the officers with the gun.  They also say Smith had a lengthy arrest record and 23 rounds in the gun.  

Good job - great effort!

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

If MSNBC covered this, would likely be all that was presented (from the USA Today link):

We don't do facts, we do violence when not appeased is how I read this.

Perhaps in answer to his questions one might suggest that he lead his community, that he forge expectations in the community, expectations that the community will self-enforce through social opprobrium, expectations about educational attainment, work, non-violence, and respect for law and law enforcement.  Expectations about deferring parenthood until one has an environment and circumstances conducive to raising responsible productive citizens. Perhaps he can lead his community to not accept politicians that pander to them during elections but ignore them after, or worse yet set up programs that encourage dependence, that infantilize.  Maybe he can lead in rejecting excuses and rationalizations which perpetuate negative circumstances and instead can encourage achievement in spite of challenges.  Built in excuses are almost always a sure sign of defeat.  Embracing those excuses always is a sign of defeat.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Leading story on their CNN.com

Yep a whole one minute and fifty seconds...done from the studio...

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Nope.  Probably this.

...makes sense..

If you are a thug and may need to run....not the best choice of attire...They should all be in running shorts...

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

With all of this video out there how many arrests can we expect from this situation? 

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Has Tim been in here to address this situation...I haven't seen him..

 

[Fishboy]

Median salary is not important for recruiting. Starting salary is. Starting in MPS is 41k. Starting in Libertyville, IL just over the border is 52k. 

One of those is a good district in a safe area. One will likely have you starting in a terrible neighborhood. One of those makes you live in Milwaukee. One doesnt. Real hard choice.  

This would be a valid point if Milwaukee were anywhere near "the border".  On a good day without snow, traffic or construction the MPS school district is 45-60 minutes from the Illinois border. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

With all of this video out there how many arrests can we expect from this situation? 

That would be a poor tax.

 

[parasaurolophus]

This would be a valid point if Milwaukee were anywhere near "the border".  On a good day without snow, traffic or construction the MPS school district is 45-60 minutes from the Illinois border. 

Not sure what yoir point is. You are making the assumption that all people that teach in the MPS already lived in Milwaukee.

 

[Fishboy]

Not sure what yoir point is. You are making the assumption that all people that teach in the MPS already lived in Milwaukee.

My point is that a vast majority of the MPS teachers live in the city of Milwaukee or close surrounding suburbs.  Milwaukee isn't losing these teachers to Libertyville because of salary. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

My point is that a vast majority of the MPS teachers live in the city of Milwaukee or close surrounding suburbs.  Milwaukee isn't losing these teachers to Libertyville because of salary. 

Of course most teachers that are in the MPS live in Milwaukee. Until June 23 of this year you had to. 

We are talking about NEW teachers. If you are saying that MPS only recruits teachers inside the city of Milwaukee, you are actually strengthening my original point, which was that these teachers have long leashes since they don't have good candidates to replace them. 

 

[SWC]

milwaukee is incredibly segregated and by most accounts is the most segregated city in the country i think the numbers say that when you divide the city up by cross streets highways and other barriers the chances are that a pretty good majority of other people in that area are just like you and milwaukee is pretty much way out in front of anywhere else when ti comes to this take that to the bank

 

[SWC]

and for the black community it was a relative johnny come lately in milwaukee the big populations here when milwaukee was coming of age were germans polish irish italian and now are shifting to hispaic backgrounds take that to the bank

 

[SWC]

but the black community did not really get going until the sixties right at the same time that milwaukees production and manufacturing base was going to hell and leaving just like most other big cities in the rust belt leaving a lot of former production workers without paychecks to take  to the bank

 

[SWC]

so now you have a newly arrived black community without much wealth and when every other ethnic background fled to the suburbs it could not afford to and stayed in place and unfortunately at the time was really the victim of racism and that is the truth and again unfortunately it was more accepted back at that time it simply was which stinks and it lead to things like real politics being played with mass transit and bus lines not going to suburbs and disconnecting inner city areas from job rich areas which just caused isolation of those areas made their residents less able to get jobs or get to them and which only kept the downward spiral of areas where black communities live in milwaukee going take that to the bank

 

[SWC]

and in addition to stupid public transportation decisions hey i mean we are dumping money on a fancy streetcar downtown instead of getting people to jobs which is dumb the laws do not help poor areas either just think about this brohans say you are right on the edge and cannot afford  to lose your license because if you can not drive poof you can not afford to get to work any other way well up here you can lose your license for two years for an unpaid driving fine like say you do not have a registration or you get a speeding ticket but if you get pinched for drunk driving here the first time you get less than half of that i do not know if that is intentional or not but it sure does not make sense and it sure does not help get people out of inner city poor areas that are primarily black community areas to jobs take that to the bank

 

[SWC]

and believe me there are all sorts of politics played here about the rebuplican counties that surround democtratic milwaukee county and how they basically wall the city in and then in milwaukee there are huge political games played about what parts of the city connect to others take that to the bank

 

[SWC]

and so you get and we have had for decades these overwhelmingly black community areas that are disconnected from jobs from housing and which have just sprialed down and down while others parts of the city and the surrounding counties are become more affluent and succesful take that to the bank

 

[SWC]

and the result is real contempt and a real growing divide and a real angst between the communities to the point that it is a powder keg waiting to explode take that to the bank

 

[SWC]

so this situation is not about hey cnn cover this or that or some agenda that a few racist posts about bbq or statistics wielded with no concern for the background will really describe in short this shooting has little to do with what is driving this this is a decades old gas leak that found a spark and we need real change here if it is going to get better take that to the bank swc over and out 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

It was nice to see all my wife's Facebook friends over in Sherman to help with the cleanup yesterday. Docs, judges, stay at home moms from Tosa. We live closer than any of them. I was thinking, why would I go into Sherman to  clean their neighborhood? Then I realized why I wasnt there - because I'm not on Facebook so wouldnt be able to post about it. 

 

[Da Guru]

and so you get and we have had for decades these overwhelmingly black community areas that are disconnected from jobs from housing and which have just sprialed down and down while others parts of the city and the surrounding counties are become more affluent and succesful take that to the bank

Another huge problem is after incidents like this the community loses many  a small business that is desperately needs.  And new business that is important to any community will not open there and you can`t blame them. Ferguson is reeling from lost business`s that never reopened that have made things even worse.  In reality they end up destroying their own communities.

 

[Mario Kart]

Of course most teachers that are in the MPS live in Milwaukee. Until June 23 of this year you had to. 

Just to be clear, MPS employees haven't had to live in Milwaukee for about 3 years. The rulings that have happened most recently happen to revolve around the Police and Fire employees of the city of Milwaukee.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

But if we're going to be fair and tell the full story, sadly, some of the apprehensions about transit carrying violence from downtown to the burbs did come to fruition:

It's time to take steps to stop young thugs (State Fair Attacks, 2011)

I was in my hometown of Philadelphia attending the National Association of Black Journalists convention when my BlackBerry started blowing up with news about what happened Thursday night at the Wisconsin State Fair.

According to reports, it was similar to what happened in Riverwest last month, but on a much more brutal - and scarier - scale.

When people start reporting they were being beaten by black people for no other reason than being white people at the State Fair, that's pretty disturbing.

It's also thuggish and disgusting.

Now that we've got the rough words out of the way, it's time to get some real answers.

 I wasn't there - most readers weren't either - so I have to depend on the version from bystanders who called police and the Journal Sentinel newsroom for firsthand accounts.

Nobody seems certain about the size of the groups - I've heard everything from about 30 to 40 all the way up to 300 - and no one seems sure what triggered the incident. I have heard the complaints about rap music at State Fair being a possible culprit, but after learning the featured performer was 1980s star MC Hammer, I'm skeptical.

Real thugs don't listen to MC Hammer.

As I've stated before, I believe some young blacks act out in public because they know how frightening black people appear to some whites and it gives them a sense of power. That's not an excuse for the behavior, but it's a very real component.

Mayfair considering changes after teens storm mall (Mayfair Mall Melee, 2011)

Wauwatosa — Mayfair Mall officials said Monday they are considering operational changes one day after dozens of young people stormed the popular mall late in the afternoon, scaring customers and store employees.

Police confirmed on Monday that a gun was fired outside the mall. It was unclear whether the disruption inside the mall was connected to an attempted armed robbery near a bus stop where police said the gun was fired.

One eyewitness said Monday that anywhere from 80 to 100 young people went through the Boston Store, in the south end of the mall, about 15 to 20 minutes after security guards broke up a fight outside the department store entrance on the mall's second floor.

You should know by now that it is everybody else's fault but the people in the communities with the problems...And that is the reason it will never change...Nobody in our/their leadership has the balls to say it..If you keep telling irresponsible people that their behavior is not their fault, they will continue to believe it is not their fault.

 

[Apple Jack]

I keep hearing the thread title in my head like it's the first verse of The Trees. :rushnerd:

 

[Da Guru]

Absolutely true, but riots like this also end up hurting the city of the whole.  Detroit never really recovered from it's '67 riot as affluent people and businesses, even those not in the direct war zone, fled to the burbs.  The same is also true of Milwaukee's '67 riot.

Milwaukee brings in a lot of revenue from SummerFest.  You'd have to imagine that both out of state tourism and suburban travel to next year's SummerFest will be down.  Some people will simply envision a better, safer place to spend their free cash than a city in the news for it's riot tinged with attacks.

Northern Michigan has been reporting huge increase in tourism this summer. All Traverse City hotels and condos are way up in occupancy.  The restaurants are booming.   Have a feeling people will be going to more places like this in the future.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Actually, Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke has the balls to tell the truth, and after the 2011 State Fair attacks Milwaukee alderman Bob Donovan had the balls to tell the truth.  So there are a couple Milwaukee officials with some balls.  Balls are slowly but surely dropping.

In violence, we reap the harvest we've sown

By Bob Donovan

If the chaos that erupted at State Fair Park on opening night isn't a wake-up call for this community, then I hate to think what it will take to get our attention. Yet is anyone willing to bet me a year from now we'll still be asleep at the switch?

As an elected official and citizen, I was appalled by the senseless and horrific violence the mob unleashed outside what is supposed to be a safe and family-friendly venue. On behalf of our city, I again apologize to the victims and good patrons who endured or witnessed the unprovoked rampage.

Sadly, what transpired near State Fair Park on Aug. 4 is only the most recent mob riot spawned by a culture of violence that has been brewing in a growing portion of Milwaukee's African-American community for some time.

While we certainly have problems with Hispanic and Asian gangs, are groups of Hispanics or Hmong going out in mobs attacking whites?

No.

There is a growing subculture in the City of Milwaukee and other large urban centers across the nation - largely young and African-American lacking the shared values that you and I may take for granted.

To this subculture, there is no respect for authority. There is no value in marriage or raising a family. There is no value in receiving an education or getting and keeping a job. There is no value in passing on a legacy to the next generation.

Is this an indictment of the entire African-American community in Milwaukee, which is rich in families and individuals who have risen to the very pinnacle of business, medicine, law, academia, government and other sectors?

No. But we simply must not ignore the fact that we are reaping the harvest that we've sown.

There are consequences for making excuses for bad behavior.

There are consequences for failing to instill a sense of personal responsibility in our young people, and for fostering an entitlement mentality.

There are consequences for having little to no positive male involvement in the lives of so many of our African-American children.

There are consequences for the horrendous illegitimacy rate in our African-American community.

There are consequences for a decades-long near 50% unemployment rate for African-American males in our city.

There are consequences for having a failing public school system, and an outdated juvenile justice system.

There are consequences for having one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the U.S., and for having kids raising kids.

There are also far too many people in our community having children without the financial means to support them beyond some form of government assistance. Also, there are far too many men in our city who think the only contribution they need to make as a father is a biological one.

Let's face it, the community was shocked when the violent mob of African-American youths attacked white people in Kilbourn Reservoir Park on July 3. Then, a few eyebrows were raised at the F-bombs and shocking disregard and disrespect for Milwaukee police officers shown by a large and unruly group of African-Americans at N. Richards St. and W. North Ave. on July 30.

And now this horrific mob violence near State Fair Park.

Where is government in all of this? Sure, we need government to help keep us safe, and to provide valuable services, but no amount of dollars in government spending or resources is going to truly address this mob violence problem.

There is absolutely no substitute for personal responsibility, and I am merely pointing out, publicly, what has been discussed within the African-American community for years.

We are indeed reaping the harvest we have sown.

Sadly, there remain far too many so-called leaders in Milwaukee, both black and white, who remain in denial about our serious problems.

There's one thing I'm absolutely certain about: We cannot begin to address our real problems if we can't first admit that those problems exist.

Bob Donovan is a Milwaukee alderman representing the 8th District.

Damn right...

 

[Willy]

I tried to call my coworker for some help with a database issue an hour ago.  She lives near the burning car on tv now.  Didn't get through to her because she's at the hospital, her kid was shot tonight.  wtf

-I won't know any more about this until tomorrow morning.  I'm just sick.

To close the loop on this, turns out he was the 18 year old who was rescued by the armored car.  He's going to be alright. 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

But if we're going to be fair and tell the full story, sadly, some of the apprehensions about transit carrying violence from downtown to the burbs did come to fruition:

It's time to take steps to stop young thugs (State Fair Attacks, 2011)

I was in my hometown of Philadelphia attending the National Association of Black Journalists convention when my BlackBerry started blowing up with news about what happened Thursday night at the Wisconsin State Fair.

According to reports, it was similar to what happened in Riverwest last month, but on a much more brutal - and scarier - scale.

When people start reporting they were being beaten by black people for no other reason than being white people at the State Fair, that's pretty disturbing.

It's also thuggish and disgusting.

Now that we've got the rough words out of the way, it's time to get some real answers.

 I wasn't there - most readers weren't either - so I have to depend on the version from bystanders who called police and the Journal Sentinel newsroom for firsthand accounts.

Nobody seems certain about the size of the groups - I've heard everything from about 30 to 40 all the way up to 300 - and no one seems sure what triggered the incident. I have heard the complaints about rap music at State Fair being a possible culprit, but after learning the featured performer was 1980s star MC Hammer, I'm skeptical.

Real thugs don't listen to MC Hammer.

As I've stated before, I believe some young blacks act out in public because they know how frightening black people appear to some whites and it gives them a sense of power. That's not an excuse for the behavior, but it's a very real component.

Mayfair considering changes after teens storm mall (Mayfair Mall Melee, 2011)

Wauwatosa — Mayfair Mall officials said Monday they are considering operational changes one day after dozens of young people stormed the popular mall late in the afternoon, scaring customers and store employees.

Police confirmed on Monday that a gun was fired outside the mall. It was unclear whether the disruption inside the mall was connected to an attempted armed robbery near a bus stop where police said the gun was fired.

One eyewitness said Monday that anywhere from 80 to 100 young people went through the Boston Store, in the south end of the mall, about 15 to 20 minutes after security guards broke up a fight outside the department store entrance on the mall's second floor.

I don't think anyone considers state Fair park or Mayfair mall the burbs, at least not as it relates to the neighborhoods were talking about. 

And Bob Donovan? You don't live here I'm guessing.

 

[Mr.Pack]

A Democratic state senator named Joseph Andrea complained that Wisconsin benefits were too high, and that welfare had no work requirement. Milwaukee was one of the Wisconsin cities that became a magnet to certain Chicago residents throughout the l980s.

Ha, no chance  Dem said this.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Ha, no chance  Dem said this.

Sorry Stryk, you didn't want politics.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

It was nice to see all my wife's Facebook friends over in Sherman to help with the cleanup yesterday. Docs, judges, stay at home moms from Tosa. We live closer than any of them. I was thinking, why would I go into Sherman to  clean their neighborhood? Then I realized why I wasnt there - because I'm not on Facebook so wouldnt be able to post about it. 

Very cynical view but there is some truth there I bet. 

 

[avoiding injuries]

Absolutely true, but riots like this also end up hurting the city of the whole.  Detroit never really recovered from it's '67 riot as affluent people and businesses, even those not in the direct war zone, fled to the burbs.  The same is also true of Milwaukee's '67 riot.

Milwaukee brings in a lot of revenue from SummerFest.  You'd have to imagine that both out of state tourism and suburban travel to next year's SummerFest will be down.  Some people will simply envision a better, safer place to spend their free cash than a city in the news for it's riot tinged with attacks.

I don't know where Summerfest is located in relation to these events, but I seriously doubt there is any impact. Preakness is a mile or two from where the Baltimore riots took place and it didn't change a thing. 

 

[Mario Kart]

I don't know where Summerfest is located in relation to these events, but I seriously doubt there is any impact. Preakness is a mile or two from where the Baltimore riots took place and it didn't change a thing. 

Summerfest is over... late June/early July. However, the grounds are no where near where this occurred. State Fair is no where near Sherman Park without zigzagging through city streets for 20 minutes. Sadly, not much is near the area that would attract any kind of large gathering for economic purposes.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Summerfest is over... late June/early July. However, the grounds are no where near where this occurred. State Fair is no where near Sherman Park without zigzagging through city streets for 20 minutes. Sadly, not much is near the area that would attract any kind of large gathering for economic purposes.

Same with the area in Baltimore. Hmmm...

 

[rct]

But if we're going to be fair and tell the full story, sadly, some of the apprehensions about transit carrying violence from downtown to the burbs did come to fruition:

It's time to take steps to stop young thugs (State Fair Attacks, 2011)

Mayfair considering changes after teens storm mall (Mayfair Mall Melee, 2011)

There was a thread covering both of these in 2011, which was something like "Black Flash Mobs Attack Whites" that was eventually locked or deleted by the mods.

Can't remember the details, but some people who looked into it found both of these incidents somewhat exaggerated. And with the State Fair, there wasn't a general consensus among police/lawmakers/politicians that this indeed was racially motivated or that blacks went into the fair looking to single out and attack white folks. The right wing blogosphere still runs with these stories but the alleged racial anti-white intent claimed by witnesses was never proven.

 

[Billy Bats]

And Bob Donovan? You don't live here I'm guessing.

Don't know the man, don't live near Milwaukee, is what he said not true? 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

There was a thread covering both of these in 2011, which was something like "Black Mobs Attack White People" that was eventually locked or deleted by the mods.

Can't remember the details, but some people who looked into it found both of these incidents somewhat exaggerated. And with the State Fair, there wasn't a general consensus among police/lawmakers/politicians that this indeed was racially motivated or that blacks went into the fair looking to single out and attack white folks. The right wing blogosphere still runs with these stories but the alleged racial anti-white intent claimed by witnesses was never proven.

How would such things be proven, and to whose satisfaction?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I think people do consider both Tosa and West Allis immediate burbs of Milwaukee.  It's definitely not downtown or Milwaukee's Northwest neighborhoods that we're talking about.

Fair enough Olaf. In the context of the public transportation issue you were discussing, I don't believe anyone is thinking about the Mayfair mall or state Fair as far out places these kids could never get to, but it's not that important to the discussion.