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US Men's National Team (13 Viewers)

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

 
Some JK comments

==========

We are looking at the strongest lineup in order to beat Trinidad and Tobago,” he told reporters in Jacksonville. “This is it. This is World Cup qualifying. This is not the time to experiment. We can talk about that if everything is done about next month’s friendlies, but not in World Cup qualifying. We take this very seriously.”

===============

“We are obviously blessed with Brad Guzan and Tim Howard,” Klinsmann said during a Facebook live chat on Sunday. “As long as the younger ones are not stepping it up even more and pushing them -- kind of pushing them out, basically -- these two will defend their spots. And in order to have both always available and in good spirit, here and there we can rotate."

==================

“Christian came in against St. Vincent and did a fantastic job. He kind of really made it look all easy,” Klinsmann said during the Facebook chat. “Obviously, we know he has tremendous talent and that’s why he’s with Borussia Dortmund. We’re going to build him one step at a time. A lot of people are anxious that we start him from the beginning. That day will come there is no doubt about it.  But for us it’s important that we build him with patience, with not too much hype and expectation either."
 

 
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Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
So unless something really shady and CONCACAF-y happens, we basically have the same hex as for 2014 qualifying except T&T replaces Jamaica, right?
Click to expand...
US, Mex, CR, Panama, Honduras, T&T.... yep. 

kinda sad to think that's pretty much how it's going to be for a while... although odd that Canada can't get it figured out. I'd love to see Anguilla or Dominica get a shot... it's been fun with StV&G

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
So unless something really shady and CONCACAF-y happens, we basically have the same hex as for 2014 qualifying except T&T replaces Jamaica, right?
Click to expand...
Correct.   There is only one spot that is remotely in play tonight and that is Canada / Honduras.   I refuse the acknowledge the US is not already through to the hex.

 
El Floppo said:
and writing out all those teams... this is not going to be an easy hex; all 6 of those teams look capable.
Click to expand...
30 points are available.

Historically, no team that has achieved 17 or more points has ever not been top 3 so that is kind of a magic number to shoot for.

If you assume a solid 13 points at home, we need to find 4 points on the road.

Playing better in Trinidad will be a key game.

If we get the Mexico CR start in November, we could be off to an amazing start with 4 points, but even 3 puts us in a good spot.

 
NewlyRetired said:
30 points are available.

Historically, no team that has achieved 17 or more points has ever not been top 3 so that is kind of a magic number to shoot for.

If you assume a solid 13 points at home, we need to find 4 points on the road.

Playing better in Trinidad will be a key game.

If we get the Mexico CR start in November, we could be off to an amazing start with 4 points, but even 3 puts us in a good spot.
Click to expand...
I'm hoping for any points in those first two, if it's Mex and CR... even at home. :debbydowner:

and IIRC, I was alone in thinking the US played well away at T&T, in spite of the draw. they lacked ruthlessness in finishing the game off- which they will hopefully have learned by now (or then).

 
Seems to me there are four relative strengths of games.

1.  Games where not getting three points would be catastrophic:

      Home vs. T&T

      Home vs. Panama

2.  Games where the US should be favored to get three points, but where they might stumble to a draw or even a bad loss

      Home vs. Honduras

      Home vs.  CR

      Away vs. Panama

     Away vs. T&T

3. Games that I consider kind of presumptive draws, but where 3 points really help and 0 pts really hurt:

       Away to Honduras

       Home vs. Mexico

4.  Games where any point the US got would be a great result:

       Away to Mexico

       Away to Costa Rica

 
El Floppo said:
I'm hoping for any points in those first two, if it's Mex and CR... even at home. :debbydowner:
Click to expand...
It will be Mexico at home, and CR away, assuming nothing too crazy happens tonight.

It is kind of a battle of which trends breaks first.

The US has only dropped 2 points to Mexico in the Hex (the 1 draw back in 1997 when Keller cleared the ball right into Hermosillo's skull to reflect back into the US goal).

Conversely, the US has never secured even a single point in CR in the hex.  The US has a worse record on the road in CR than it does on the road in Mexico.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Seems to me there are four relative strengths of games.

1.  Games where not getting three points would be catastrophic:

      Home vs. T&T

      Home vs. Panama

2.  Games where the US should be favored to get three points, but where they might stumble to a draw or even a bad loss

      Home vs. Honduras

      Home vs.  CR

      Away vs. Panama

     Away vs. T&T

3. Games that I consider kind of presumptive draws, but where 3 points really help and 0 pts really hurt:

       Away to Honduras

       Home vs. Mexico

4.  Games where any point the US got would be a great result:

       Away to Mexico

       Away to Costa Rica
Click to expand...
You can see the affect Canada pulling off the small miracle would have tonight.

Canada at home would move into your group 1 and Canada on road would move into your group 2.

 
NewlyRetired said:
It will be Mexico at home, and CR away, assuming nothing too crazy happens tonight.

It is kind of a battle of which trends breaks first.

The US has only dropped 2 points to Mexico in the Hex (the 1 draw back in 1997 when Keller cleared the ball right into Hermosillo's skull to reflect back into the US goal).

Conversely, the US has never secured even a single point in CR in the hex.  The US has a worse record on the road in CR than it does on the road in Mexico.
Click to expand...
andy... was it in CR that the US had a tie going in late during qualifying, and the ref called a handball against... Armas? Reyna? with their hand tight to their body... I'm thinking like 12 years ago? maybe more? for '98?

 
Do the yellows reset for each round or do they carry over?

Yedlin got a yellow against SVG.  Anyone else?

 
El Floppo said:
andy... was it in CR that the US had a tie going in late during qualifying, and the ref called a handball against... Armas? Reyna? with their hand tight to their body... I'm thinking like 12 years ago? maybe more? for '98?
Click to expand...
that sounds familiar but I can't be sure.  Some of the old game report links are dead now in wiki from those old hexes.

 
NewlyRetired said:
that sounds familiar but I can't be sure.  Some of the old game report links are dead now in wiki from those old hexes.
Click to expand...
my memory really stinks (leitmotif)... IIRC, it was what could've been huge... maybe 2nd to last game and the tie would've put them through, loss put them in jeopardy. dark haired US player, on the left side of the box with arms intentionally at his side or even behind him- ball hits the arm and it's a PK for the loss. as angry as I've gotten at games over the years- I think that one made me the angriest. back in the days when the US would get the #### concacafed out of them with every away game. the US obviously secured passage, so it couldn't have been lethal.

gonna google and hope something sparks a memory.

 
Ned said:
Do the yellows reset for each round or do they carry over?

Yedlin got a yellow against SVG.  Anyone else?
Click to expand...
yes, cards do carry over to the next set of official games which for the US are at the start of the hex in November.

Yedlin will be reset to 0 as he is suspended tonight.  I am unsure who else might be in danger.  Bradley and Orozco should be set to 0 for tonight's game.

 
El Floppo said:
 I think that one made me the angriest. back in the days when the US would get the #### concacafed out of them with every away game. the US obviously secured passage, so it couldn't have been lethal.
Click to expand...
This is one item that seems to have improved in the last 2 hexes.

It was uncanny how many horrendous calls the US received away back in the 90's.  We used to joke that the US would have to go into every game thinking that were already losing by 1 because a PK call was coming no matter what :)

Luckily that seems to have significantly diminished.  The only horrendous call I can remember recently was this (which was more on the player than the ref)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YfA0Zn3vK4

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Seems to me there are four relative strengths of games.

1.  Games where not getting three points would be catastrophic:

      Home vs. T&T

      Home vs. Panama

2.  Games where the US should be favored to get three points, but where they might stumble to a draw or even a bad loss

      Home vs. Honduras

      Home vs.  CR

      Away vs. Panama

     Away vs. T&T

3. Games that I consider kind of presumptive draws, but where 3 points really help and 0 pts really hurt:

       Away to Honduras

       Home vs. Mexico

4.  Games where any point the US got would be a great result:

       Away to Mexico

       Away to Costa Rica
Click to expand...
TBH- I put Panama level with Honduras... so that shifts your graph a bit.

 
FYI, from US-soccer:

FINISH THE JOB
While the MNT put in a strong performance in Friday’s 6-0 win at St. Vincent and the Grenadines, the team is still not mathematically qualified for the final round. There are a number of different scenarios for the MNT to advance on Tuesday night, but the preferred route is by defeating Trinidad & Tobago, which would also see the USA win Group C and mark the sixth-straight time the side has finished atop its semifinal round qualifying group (dating back to the current qualifying format which began during the 1998 cycle). A victory against Trinidad & Tobago is the only way for the MNT to win Group C.

The other scenarios for U.S. advancement to “The Hex”:

  • Draw against Trinidad & Tobago
  • Lose to Trinidad & Tobago AND Guatemala and St. Vincent draw
  • Lose to Trinidad & Tobago AND St. Vincent win
  • Lose to Trinidad & Tobago AND Guatemala win where the 13 goals are not made up between los Chapines and the MNT
 
and I thnk it's 12 goal differential.

so Guat would have to beat StV&G something like 6/7-0... very possible.

AND the US would have to lose to T&T... at home... 5/6-0... not gonna happen. 

that said- if this somehow comes about.... I will hunt down Wondo, cook him over a fire and then eat him.

 
El Floppo said:
and I thnk it's 12 goal differential.

so Guat would have to beat StV&G something like 6/7-0... very possible.

AND the US would have to lose to T&T... at home... 5/6-0... not gonna happen. 

that said- if this somehow comes about.... I will hunt down Wondo, cook him over a fire and then eat him.
Click to expand...
:lmao:  

 
Does wondo start at left striker or right striker tonight? Where does orozco play? 

Just trying to think of ways we might screw this up

 
Here are the USMNT's Hexagonal record for home and away by opponent.

Jamaica Away - D, D, W

Jamaica at Home - D, W, W

Canada Away - W

Canada at Home - W

Costa Rica Away - L, L, L, L, L

Costa Rica at Home - W,W,W, D, W

Mexico Away - D, L, L, L, D

Mexico at Home - D, W, W, W, W

El Salvador Away  D, D

El Salvador at Home - W, W

Honduras Away - W, W, L

Honduras at Home - L, W, W

Panama Away - W, W

Panama at Home - W, W

T&T Away - D, W, W

T&T at Home - W, W, W

Guatemala Away - D

Guetemala at Home - W

 
Does Bradley come right back in the starting line up tonight?  If so any chance we get 2012 -2014 Bradley and not the 2016 version?

 
So, just by back of the envelope counting, I guess I didn't realize how rare road wins are for anyone in the Hex.

The US has 21 home wins and 8 road wins in the Hex.

Mexico has 18 home wins and 6 road wins.

Costa Rica has 20 home wins and 5 road wins. 

 
berndog said:
Does Bradley come right back in the starting line up tonight?  If so any chance we get 2012 -2014 Bradley and not the 2016 version?
Click to expand...
I would assume Bradley's back in the starting lineup.

second part... no idea- great question. anybody watching TFC games? 

 
Bradley has played very well for TFC since the Copa, despite losing Will Johnson next to him.  With that said, Bradley is playing a role for TFC that doesn't necessarily exist for the Nats.  He's playing deep and distributing, but with a more defensive CM beside him in the double pivot.  It works for TFC because it allows Giovinco to take whatever space he wants behind the striker.  Bradley will get forward late at times, but he mostly orchestrates from deep positions and looks for those long diagonals. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Bradley has played very well for TFC since the Copa, despite losing Will Johnson next to him.  With that said, Bradley is playing a role for TFC that doesn't necessarily exist for the Nats.  He's playing deep and distributing, but with a more defensive CM beside him in the double pivot.  It works for TFC because it allows Giovinco to take whatever space he wants behind the striker.  Bradley will get forward late at times, but he mostly orchestrates from deep positions and looks for those long diagonals. 
Click to expand...
hmm... that seems like it would be his best position for the US too (or anywhere at this point). kind of why it works better when Jones is partnered with him- they can swap and do what they need to do. kind of works with Beckerman, except Beckerman isn't going to push too forward and is better off behind or square of Bradley. 

....... Bradley

Zusi (sascha) .. Bedoya (nagbe).. Fab (pulisic)

... wood.... jozy

eta:

I have a feeling JK gives us Becks behind Bradley... w/ Bedoya slotting in for Zusi.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
OK, here is my preferred lineup for tonight

               Wood    Jozy

Pulisic     Sacha     Bradley    Bedoya

Fab         Orozco    Cameron    Acosta

                    Howard

Wouldn't be surprised to see Beckerman and Zusi in, of course.  I doubt Gonzo will play at LCB, but if he does, maybe Orozco plays RB and Acosta stays at LB. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
OK, here is my preferred lineup for tonight

               Wood    Jozy

Pulisic     Sacha     Bradley    Bedoya

Fab         Orozco  Birnbaum  Cameron    Acosta

                    Howard

Wouldn't be surprised to see Beckerman and Zusi in, of course.  I doubt Gonzo will play at LCB, but if he does, maybe Orozco plays RB and Acosta stays at LB. 
Click to expand...
fyp.

that would be fun. I assume Bradley's sitting deep with sascha in front of him? 

I think JK rolls out:

         Wood      Jozy

Bedoya    Bradley    Zusi

                Beckerman

etaL: mixed myself up

 
Last edited by a moderator:
El Floppo said:
FYI, from US-soccer:

FINISH THE JOB
While the MNT put in a strong performance in Friday’s 6-0 win at St. Vincent and the Grenadines, the team is still not mathematically qualified for the final round. There are a number of different scenarios for the MNT to advance on Tuesday night, but the preferred route is by defeating Trinidad & Tobago, which would also see the USA win Group C and mark the sixth-straight time the side has finished atop its semifinal round qualifying group (dating back to the current qualifying format which began during the 1998 cycle). A victory against Trinidad & Tobago is the only way for the MNT to win Group C.

The other scenarios for U.S. advancement to “The Hex”:

  • Draw against Trinidad & Tobago
  • Lose to Trinidad & Tobago AND Guatemala and St. Vincent draw
  • Lose to Trinidad & Tobago AND St. Vincent win
  • Lose to Trinidad & Tobago AND Guatemala win where the 13 goals are not made up between los Chapines and the MNT
Click to expand...


FreeBaGeL said:
Just getting caught up on the thread.  So the goal tonight is not to lose by 8 goals, right?
Click to expand...

 
I think it's unlikely that JK will start a right footed CB  at LCB.  When at all possible, he plays a natural left footed player there.  Orozco was suspended for St. Vincent, so it's just hard to imagine that JK him on the team if he's that far down the depth chart across the back line. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think it's unlikely that JK will start a right footed CB  at LCB.  When at all possible, he plays a natural left footed player there.  Orozco was suspended for St. Vincent, so it's just hard to imagine that JK him on the team if he's that far down the depth chart across the back line. 
Click to expand...
tbh, I didn't know that Orosco was a lefty. also didn't give left/right a second thought in my lineup for CB.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think it's unlikely that JK will start a right footed CB  at LCB.  When at all possible, he plays a natural left footed player there.  Orozco was suspended for St. Vincent, so it's just hard to imagine that JK him on the team if he's that far down the depth chart across the back line. 
Click to expand...
Unless I am mistaken, he is going to be forced to play a right footed player at LCB tonight.  I think we see this across the back

....................................Howard

Orozco.............Gonzo................Cam.............Acosta

Note: I am almost 100% sure Orozco is right footed.  

 
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NewlyRetired said:
Unless I am mistaken, he is going to be forced to play a right footed player at LCB tonight.  I think we see this across the back

....................................Howard

Orozco.............Gonzo................Cam.............Acosta
Click to expand...
I'm trying to remember Orozco out wide... either really bad, or held his own in previous trips out there... anybody?

 
NewlyRetired said:
Unless I am mistaken, he is going to be forced to play a right footed player at LCB tonight.  I think we see this across the back

....................................Howard

Orozco.............Gonzo................Cam.............Acosta
Click to expand...
It's amazing how quickly we can go from being so certain of the back 4 to this. :(  

 
Ned said:
It's amazing how quickly we can go from being so certain of the back 4 to this. :(  
Click to expand...
I think any backline would look iffy with two starters and the first reserve defender unavailable. 

I'm also against moving Fab back into midfield.  It's probably his best position, but I just feel more comfortable with our depth options at LM than at LB (Acosta was fine against St. V, but that tells us nothing).

 
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