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US Men's National Team (10 Viewers)
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yes, both goals were "unintentional" in that the ball got away from a player. But when players make positive moves with the ball, and when teammates commit to getting in the box with them, positive things happen. So the goals were both "fortunate" and a result of a greater commitment to do positive things in the opponents' 1/3. That's often how it works. You have to take a chance to get a lucky or an easy goal. There are strikers who have made entire careers out of just being in the position to do that. That's poaching.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
We can all say that Jurgen picked the obvious side, but it takes balls to grab a guy who hasn't been in the program in a year and to start him. I think pretty much everyone was expecting Nagbe, but Jurgen brought in San Zusi and he provided a ton of what was missing in Guetemala. It gave the US a three man midfield where every member has a high soccer IQ. Of course it was against Guetemala (and a Guetemala that didn't start Pappa for some reason).
gianmarco
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Being better than the black kits isn't really saying much.
I mean...yeah, I know fabrics are better than in the past...but who the crap wants to wear black in the heat of summer. Fun for the U23s when its 90+ in Columbia last week.
bagger
Footballguy
Yeah I thought that was odd..to the soccer novice figuring out the schedule for all of the tournaments is quite odd. Not bad per we but you would think you would finish this round and then wait 5 months or whatever.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
Watched the entire U23 game. Not surprised at the result.
The game got out of hand at the end and the ref was definitely losing control. But if these kids hope to make the USMNT they need to get used to ####ty CONCACAF refs and dirty players on the other team and just deal with it. Hopefully that will come with maturity.
Since the US didn't make the Olympics, I think our Technical Director should be fired.
The game got out of hand at the end and the ref was definitely losing control. But if these kids hope to make the USMNT they need to get used to ####ty CONCACAF refs and dirty players on the other team and just deal with it. Hopefully that will come with maturity.
Since the US didn't make the Olympics, I think our Technical Director should be fired.
Txns8
Footballguy
Heard somewhere we registered 1 shot on goal across 180 minutes. Scary how far behind that team was. Only saving grace is that there is U23 eligible talent that wasn't three. Too bad they don't have a summer tourney to look forward to.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I don't really care much about the Olympics other than it being a good proving ground and experience generator for talent that might be useful for the big boys.
Olympic gold don't mean ish to me. In fact, I'd rather see a U20 World Cup title, since truly quality U23 players should be getting full cap call-ups, while U20 players aren't usually getting good PT.
Olympic gold don't mean ish to me. In fact, I'd rather see a U20 World Cup title, since truly quality U23 players should be getting full cap call-ups, while U20 players aren't usually getting good PT.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I agree with Z, but I also recognize that most of our best American players have had at least a youth world cup and Olympic experience. Landon did (and had long runs in both tournaments). Bradley did. There is value there.
I'm not going to get upset about Colombia. They were a better team and getting the early goal and the away draw was probably the worst possible thing as it mad the side reactive and not proactive. The failure was against Honduras.
In any case, we need to figure out who can be developed there. Hyndman kept competing even though he was playing up an age group. He's maturing physically. He's not ready yet, but he's getting there. Miazga looked kind or rusty both games, but we know he's worth developing. As is Horvath. Acosta also didn't have a great tie, but I continue to believe he's a DM and not a fullback.
I'm not going to get upset about Colombia. They were a better team and getting the early goal and the away draw was probably the worst possible thing as it mad the side reactive and not proactive. The failure was against Honduras.
In any case, we need to figure out who can be developed there. Hyndman kept competing even though he was playing up an age group. He's maturing physically. He's not ready yet, but he's getting there. Miazga looked kind or rusty both games, but we know he's worth developing. As is Horvath. Acosta also didn't have a great tie, but I continue to believe he's a DM and not a fullback.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Posting my writeup from Friday's game as a comparison, especially the bolded....
Bottom line difference- team shape with Beckerman behind Bradley, Z2 providing width and punch going forward and every player making the extra run- the second and third run- to help keep the spacing and pressure high up the field. even Deuce. especially Deuce. the team didn't "play" any better on the ball- but they worked much harder and set up much smarter off it.
Bradley and Deuce took that loss on Friday personally- you could tell. they were both all over the place in a good way and playing in front of one the better space/shape guys the US has who helped make it all better, especially with a hardworking Zusi and Zardoz keeping pressure on and still keeping some width. I haven't seen Deuce work that hard in a long, long time- loved it. Zardoz is a joke- a bad one- with that first touch. but his athleticism, strength and pace were needed on the night- and he consistently put himself in good places even if *clang*. and Zusi was consistently throwing himself into tackles and getting to the space defensively and offensively- nice to see. I don't know him much at all, but Finley maybe has some of the same athleticism as Zardoz? if so- I'm happy putting zardoz out to pasture until he can figure out his first touch. along with a nice desire to push at players with the ball, Pusilic made a decent poke tackle on a shielding Pappa- the only player who seemed to slow him down. he obviously needs to keep growing- soccer and physical-wise- but it was a perfect time to cap-blood him.
with Deuce working hard, I would have liked to see Woods find more space offensively- and combine better with Dempsey... but thought he did a great job running the channels and providing a ton of pressure on the Guat back four on both sides of the ball.
in spite of my snarky comments pre-game, Birnbaum was solid. didn't have to do much or get tested much, but played quite well next to Cameron who was a consistent elite player both games. Birnbaum certainly gives another CB option with Brooks, Gonzo, Beesknees, etc. IMO, with Bradley out against what should be a poor SVG, they can afford to experiment a tiny bit with Cameron pushing up to central MF.
yedlin played so much better with the field in front of him instead of having to go two ways... did a decent job shutting down that attacker on his side with speed and spacing. Castillo... ok. as others pointed out- I like his ability on the ball higher up the field but he makes me nervous playing a true LB trying the same moves in the defensive third.
Again- the US didn't play particularly "better", but they worked harder and set up smarter. and it showed that Guat is really just not good.... just as not good as they were on Friday, but defended much, much better. makes my brain 'splode watching both games and wondering how on earth the US can play so dispassionately and purposeless one night, and then flip the switch when they come home.
El Floppo
Footballguy
also saw the Olys... woof.
as others wrote, hard to feel too bad about watching your team get heavily outplayed and take the loss. they really didn't deserve to go to Brazil in Colombia's place... but dammit- the screwed the pooch with ConCACAF qualifying and never should have been in this spot. disastrous to give up that spot again to somebody other than Mexico.
Horvath looked good, otherwise... can't say any of the US youth jumped out at me in a good way. Accosta had a couple of moments on the ball, but otherwise bupkis. they were outplayed at every position all over the field. Morris has appeared to regress playing against big-boys (for Seattle and here). oh- whoever the DM was- good lord. worked hard to receive the ball from his CBs and then would repeatedly and visibly slow up with ball at his feet to allow the Colombia forwards to strip him. It used to be that US players were never going to beat teams with individual skills, but would use 1-2 touch passing with strong runs to play against pressing teams. this oly team did neither.
as others wrote, hard to feel too bad about watching your team get heavily outplayed and take the loss. they really didn't deserve to go to Brazil in Colombia's place... but dammit- the screwed the pooch with ConCACAF qualifying and never should have been in this spot. disastrous to give up that spot again to somebody other than Mexico.
Horvath looked good, otherwise... can't say any of the US youth jumped out at me in a good way. Accosta had a couple of moments on the ball, but otherwise bupkis. they were outplayed at every position all over the field. Morris has appeared to regress playing against big-boys (for Seattle and here). oh- whoever the DM was- good lord. worked hard to receive the ball from his CBs and then would repeatedly and visibly slow up with ball at his feet to allow the Colombia forwards to strip him. It used to be that US players were never going to beat teams with individual skills, but would use 1-2 touch passing with strong runs to play against pressing teams. this oly team did neither.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Wil Trapp. Which is odd because his distribution and presence on the ball is a strength with Columbus. When I watch him with MLS, I think he's ready for the senior team. But he's never been anything but absolutely terrible in international competition. So weird.
Ned
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
I meant to mention the second balls... US was all over them. team shape and desire to get into those spaces. both of Zardoz's *oops, assist* were because guys worked their asses off to fill those spots. and easy to bust on him, but I thought he did well getting any part of his body on that through ball with two guys around him- that allowed the second ball which Deuce pounced on for a somewhat easy goal.
also- it's a lot easier to score goals when you don't shoot right at the GK's hands. also also... GKs aren't as good if you're not shooting right at their hands. finally- #### Ruiz. RIP aside from getting repeatedly kicked by Boschian demons- we'll never have to see him again vs the US.
also- it's a lot easier to score goals when you don't shoot right at the GK's hands. also also... GKs aren't as good if you're not shooting right at their hands. finally- #### Ruiz. RIP aside from getting repeatedly kicked by Boschian demons- we'll never have to see him again vs the US.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I actually think that some of the 2002 players' comments were prescient, so let's try to figure out who should form the "core" of the US team. The 7 or 8 so guys who should be locked in as starters barring injury. I'll list them in order.
Bradley (obviously the biggest lock)
Cameron (his versatility has worked against him, but he's cementing himself into a guy who needs to be in the XI)
Fab (Left flank if at all possible)
Brooks (hasn't been great for us, but he needs to build the comfort level and consistency)
Deuce (No player can piss me off more, but he's still the most likely to find a goal. He'll be too old someday fairly soon, but I can't see a replacement)
Yedlin There are times I'd still prefer Evans, but last night was a positive side. Particularly when he cut to the middle and played some deft through balls that totally unsettled the Guats.
Jozy (I think Wood has earned a place on the team, but for all his faults, Jozy is a much more dangerous striker and more likely to score. I'd like nothing more than to have a real candidate to push Jozy but I just don't see it. )
So that's 7. I'd classify two other positions as essentially two person races where we should probably decide who is really the 1A and 1B.
Guzan/Howard (it's a weird feeling knowing that GK isn't a strength of the USMNT side. I lean Guzan, but I don't feel great about it)
Jones/Beckerman (Both are old, but they're the two best options at the 6 by a mile if we figure Cameron is going to mostly be a CB. I don't mind a platoon here where both guys have 1,000,000 miles on the odometer).
That's 9 positions and 11 players that form the best, IMO, core that we could put out. It leaves LB up for grabs (get Villafana into camp to compete with Castillo and Ream). It's not going to be a strength of the team, but we need to find our best option there. And depending on formation, it leaves a right/flank or creative central midfielder to fight for position. This is the horses for courses spot. Zardes, Finlay, Nagbe, Bedoya, maybe Zusi or even Pulisic.
Bradley (obviously the biggest lock)
Cameron (his versatility has worked against him, but he's cementing himself into a guy who needs to be in the XI)
Fab (Left flank if at all possible)
Brooks (hasn't been great for us, but he needs to build the comfort level and consistency)
Deuce (No player can piss me off more, but he's still the most likely to find a goal. He'll be too old someday fairly soon, but I can't see a replacement)
Yedlin There are times I'd still prefer Evans, but last night was a positive side. Particularly when he cut to the middle and played some deft through balls that totally unsettled the Guats.
Jozy (I think Wood has earned a place on the team, but for all his faults, Jozy is a much more dangerous striker and more likely to score. I'd like nothing more than to have a real candidate to push Jozy but I just don't see it. )
So that's 7. I'd classify two other positions as essentially two person races where we should probably decide who is really the 1A and 1B.
Guzan/Howard (it's a weird feeling knowing that GK isn't a strength of the USMNT side. I lean Guzan, but I don't feel great about it)
Jones/Beckerman (Both are old, but they're the two best options at the 6 by a mile if we figure Cameron is going to mostly be a CB. I don't mind a platoon here where both guys have 1,000,000 miles on the odometer).
That's 9 positions and 11 players that form the best, IMO, core that we could put out. It leaves LB up for grabs (get Villafana into camp to compete with Castillo and Ream). It's not going to be a strength of the team, but we need to find our best option there. And depending on formation, it leaves a right/flank or creative central midfielder to fight for position. This is the horses for courses spot. Zardes, Finlay, Nagbe, Bedoya, maybe Zusi or even Pulisic.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I could not listen to some of the game with sound last night. Was there any issue with Nagbe that prevented him from playing or was that purely a coaching decision?
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Purely coaching, though I think some of it was needing to tie Pulisic, wanting Finlay to get some play at home especially once the score got to 3-0, and wanting Jozy to get some run.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I'd just say that while I don't think it's 100% necessary right now, I do think JK needs to get Cameron some run at the 6 to see if he can do it at the international level. Maybe not until after Copa/this round of qualifiers is up, but depending and presumably locking up 2 roster spots in 2018 with 2 35 year old DM is just putrid roster management.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think the mystery, as it were, is why he didn't start in Zusi's place. Nagbe keeps having sub performances where we think he looks pretty good, but obviously something isn't getting him over the hump with JK.
Obviously Zusi ended up being a good choice as Bradley looked completely comfortable playing alongside two other midfielders he knew well. Could Nagbe not do what Zusi did? I don't know.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I think Nagbe is viewed as more of a offensive mid in 4-4-2 as opposed to a playing next to Bradley or in one of the Wood/Zardes rolls 4-1-2-2-1
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think that depends on how you feel about the other right-sided center backs. Gonzo keeps playing himself off the team. Birnbaum has performed pretty well, but he doesn't really feel like a starter to me. Maybe Miazga develops quickly. But you're kind of picking your poison.
There's another option, of course. Which is to bring in Dax. Who will flash no potential to be a star, but who could probably do Kyle Beckerman like things for a cycle considering he's 28. That's the pragmatic option, IMO.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Forwards:
If Deuce can consistently put in the effort he did last night- he has to be in the 11. otherwise, use him as a last 30 game-changing sub. I agree about Jozy, although Woods has had a pretty nice goal-scoring run in the last 12 months- last two games aside. Between Jozy, Woods and Deuce- I feel ok up front. throw in Bacon if he ever gets healthy. maybe a Green if he progresses or a Nagbe if it's more of a 4-5-1.
MF:
Bradley, Fab, Jones/Becks... tough to argue with, although depending on the situation at CB, I could see Cameron pushing into the MF in place of the geriatrics (Cam not so springy fresh himself). Would like to see Nagbe out there too, but hard to place him in this lineup without taking one of the forwards out or pushing him wide. Bedoya was not good the other night, but also offers an option in the MF... I'm just not sure where. he's played decently in the past on the flank for the US, but looked lost Friday. I've heard mixed things about Zegolum- but mostly it sounds like he's just a bit soft/slight for the rigors of 2nd Div Scotland. He offers long terms options as well. Zardoz, Finley, Bedoya... all in the mix. oh... right... Mix. no gracias.
D:
Yedlin, Cameron and the killer Bs (Brooks/Besler/Birnbaum) plus...
. another year, another hole at LB. at least there are some warm bodies capable of going there. I still like the Tintin villain, Garza- but have lost word on him. Also a big fan of Ream, but the step slow off the ball out wide can and will hurt them.
GK:
Have liked everything I've seen from Horvath. He can slot right in and soon, IMO. Guzan and Howard have not looked their usual selves for a while now, but should be capable.
If Deuce can consistently put in the effort he did last night- he has to be in the 11. otherwise, use him as a last 30 game-changing sub. I agree about Jozy, although Woods has had a pretty nice goal-scoring run in the last 12 months- last two games aside. Between Jozy, Woods and Deuce- I feel ok up front. throw in Bacon if he ever gets healthy. maybe a Green if he progresses or a Nagbe if it's more of a 4-5-1.
MF:
Bradley, Fab, Jones/Becks... tough to argue with, although depending on the situation at CB, I could see Cameron pushing into the MF in place of the geriatrics (Cam not so springy fresh himself). Would like to see Nagbe out there too, but hard to place him in this lineup without taking one of the forwards out or pushing him wide. Bedoya was not good the other night, but also offers an option in the MF... I'm just not sure where. he's played decently in the past on the flank for the US, but looked lost Friday. I've heard mixed things about Zegolum- but mostly it sounds like he's just a bit soft/slight for the rigors of 2nd Div Scotland. He offers long terms options as well. Zardoz, Finley, Bedoya... all in the mix. oh... right... Mix. no gracias.
D:
Yedlin, Cameron and the killer Bs (Brooks/Besler/Birnbaum) plus...
. another year, another hole at LB. at least there are some warm bodies capable of going there. I still like the Tintin villain, Garza- but have lost word on him. Also a big fan of Ream, but the step slow off the ball out wide can and will hurt them. GK:
Have liked everything I've seen from Horvath. He can slot right in and soon, IMO. Guzan and Howard have not looked their usual selves for a while now, but should be capable.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I wonder what it is about Dax. On the surface he appears to have the qualities that JK appears to appreciate in a player in terms of getting the most out of ones ability.Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Then again JK also ignored Beckerman early in his tenure and then he became a staple in the lineup for a while at a similar age to Dax but I just don't know when Dax gets a shot.
I keep looking at the Trinidad game as a good chance for experimentation.
With the Copa at home, JK is likely to be under a little pressure to put his best side out and not try and experiment too much unfortunately.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
there has to be some off the ball movement/shape/defensive stuff going on, IMO. Zusi provides more of a tried and true winger, but I get the sense Nagbe wants to push up and in when he's out there... dunno- just a guess.Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
but yeah- I agree that JK went with Finley because of the score and home crowd. I'd guess Nagbe gets put in a game with more on the line.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think that's good. I've come around on the Copa. I didn't give a crap about it. A manufactured tournament that may or may not get the "A" squads.
But moving forward with an eye toward the Hex, that type of tournament is the perfect excuse to settle on your preferred lineup. Get guys minutes in the spots you want to play them in bigger games. In the pre-Copa camp, I'd tell everyone that the competition in this camp is determining the presumptive starters going forward. If Guzan plays better than Howard, he's the #1 unless he really screws the pooch in a game. Same at every other position.
El Floppo
Footballguy
playing for the Bayern Bs in the 4th Div. IIRC, he's started scoring lately and getting praise from higher-ups. but seems unlikely he's ever going to break the 1st team at BM. hopefully gets loaned or sold so he can get some quality PT somewhere else.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
But Zusi didn't play as a winger last night (until Jozy came in and the US went to a 4-4-2). He played alongside Bradley as a CM in a 4-3-3. Zardes was on the right wing most of the night.
El Floppo
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The 2014/2015 year was such a cluster #### for him. Everything went wrong and it looks from reports that he had a lot to do with it because of his attitude.
Hopefully he has grown up but even saying that and acknowledging that Germany is as deep as any league structure in the world, he can't continue to play in the 4th division, which in Germany is really just an elevated amateur status because it is so regional.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
I totally missed/didn't see that.
I saw Bradley was in the middle alongside/infront of Beckerman. Zardoz out right and Zusi on the left. Deuce in front with Woods running diagonals in front of him. I guess Zusi/Zardoz pushed in when the ball was on the weak side and pushed up higher when the ball was on their side... otherwise, I didn't see anything that told me this was a 4-3-3.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Green was on the Olympic qualifying roster, right? But he never got into either game. I think that's the big red flag. I get that we weren't really looking for purely creative players on the wings there, but Green has gone from a guy who scored in a World Cup to a guy who we don't trust to contribute to youth teams.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
The inital lineup was announced as
Zusi and Bradly as CM's with Beckerman behind them as a CDM.
Wood was LW, Duece was CST, Zardoz was RW.
It was a 433 w/ a CDM in the middle 3. Or a 4123 if you prefer.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
It was something like
Deuce
Wood --------- Zardes
Zusi - Bradley
Beckerman
I guess he could have been in one of the Wood/Zardes places, but I don't think JK views him as a 2-wayish player like Zusi/Bradley yet.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I know it was said to be a 4-3-3 last night with Bradley, Zusi and Beckerman all in the midfield but it did not really play out that way IMO, at least not in any normal balanced positioning.
Bradley and Beckerman both played centrally as 2 of the 3 midfielders. This was likely by design to clog the middle and give Yedlin the room to push up.
Bradley and Beckerman both played centrally as 2 of the 3 midfielders. This was likely by design to clog the middle and give Yedlin the room to push up.
El Floppo
Footballguy
ah- interesting, thanks.
ok... I guess I see that. still seemed like it played out more like what I wrote before- Wood didn't seem to be out wide, but ... ok. whatever it was- loved the spacing and shape for the US with that lineup and setup. allowed guys to combine through the back up to the front. Still want more combination play from Wood and Dempsey. and better first touch and quicker ball movement from everybody. basically, new guys.
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
Btw, I did notice Bradly back among the backline too much for my liking. He was 'helping' Beckerman a little too much for my liking. At times he looked more like a second CDM. He did get forward well tho, so there is that.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
ok a 4-1-2-3 makes a lot more sense to me.
I think I am pre-programmed to think a 4-3-3 means the 3 midfielders are flat across.
El Floppo
Footballguy
ditto.
from my eyes- still looked more like a 4-1-3-2 on the field. now I wish I hadn't erased the game, so I could take another look.
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
I think it looked more like this...
4
1 (CDM)
2 (CMs)
2 (wings)
1 (striker)
But I digress....
I did like the shape. Although against good teams, having Zardoz and Yedlin on the same size scares me.
Also, I think Benny would have been great playing in Zusi's spot in the lineup.......
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure Wood stuck to more of a LW spot than striker, but its all semantics also...
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Both wingers made diagonal runs forward at times (both of Zardes' "assists" for example). As you might expect, Deuce often dropped the deepest of the forward three to get on the ball, false nine style. Still, for much of the game Wood was on the left touchline and Zardes was on the right touchline. And Zusi was working a triangle with Bradley and Beckerman.
