USA Shootings (7 Viewers)

[apalmer]

Trust the government.  Got it. 

Nope.  Trust those in government who have earned it.  Don't trust those with a demonstrable history of lying, cheating, obfuscation and greed.

 

[Hawkeye21]

There in lies the problem. What if you have a choice between two candidates. One wants to ban guns, the other universal healthcare. Or perhaps any other number of either or choices. Sometimes you can't have both.

Then we are not doing a good enough job selecting our candidates.  I really think this whole party crap needs to go away and issues need to be worked on together.

 

[msommer]

What if there are 2 million who believe they should be legal, and who donate to the NRA, which pays off enough Senators to vote their way?

What if there are a bunch of gun manufacturers that pay the NRA to pay off the Senators and other representatives to vote their way (can be either, or or and)

 

[BAT1man]

When did I lump you in? I’m starting to think you have rote answers you’re trying to fit into responses to what I say rather than actually responding to what I type. 

When you said,”Have you noticed that the party...” in response to my post. You lumped me in with “the party” that you believe is to blame. You did. 

 

[BAT1man]

Nope.  Trust those in government who have earned it.  Don't trust those with a demonstrable history of lying, cheating, obfuscation and greed.

I agree with that. Certainly you can agree that both parties have people that are trust worthy and those that are not?  

 

[apalmer]

When you said,”Have you noticed that the party...” in response to my post. You lumped me in with “the party” that you believe is to blame. You did. 

Hint: you don't have to be a member of a party for them to tell you something.

 

[msommer]

This is where I have issues with Democrats.  This point should be hammered home non stop, show any Politician aligned with the NRA to be complicit in the murder of our nation's children.

The Beth Bass schtick from yday sould be continued for all of those that are taking the NRA dole. With a comment on total spend/raise as well for the cycle so we can see how much of the politicians the NRA really owns, and if not a lot, then it actually could be even worse for the politician in question if they vote against common sense stuff

 

[ericttspikes]

On its front page, the Boston Globe pre-covers the next mass shooting.

"There are only three things we don't know about the next time: Who, where, and how many?"

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/964490073591906304

Love the guy in the responses who sent his Congressman a contribution check in the amount of "thoughts and prayers". 

 

[apalmer]

I agree with that. Certainly you can agree that both parties have people that are trust worthy and those that are not?  

Of course.  But, at the present time only one party is doing its best to exalt untrustworthy behavior and take it to completely new levels.

 

[tonydead]

What gives you the impression they haven't tried? I know for a fact that they have.

Sorry, but this issue is as straight line partisan as they get. The Democratic party and the vast majority of members of the party at the state and federal level want change.  The GOP and the vast majority of members of the party at the state and federal level do not and are blocking it at every turn.  Anyone who denies this obvious reality is, IMO, part of the problem because they're giving political cover to the obstructionists.

There's a dam blocking a river, and you all are insisting that the river and the dam find a way to meaningfully collaborate on solutions to allow the water to flow. That's just not how it works. Dams stop water from flowing.  That is their function, just like it's the GOP's function to block gun control. Blow up the dam or nothing happens.

No not at all.  Dams contain a water reserve and then control the amount of water flow.  If they stopped water from flowing they would regularity overflow and fail.

Their function isn't to block water, it's to contain a reserve of it and then control the flow for a lot of useful purposes.

 

[badmojo1006]

When thoughts and prayers kick in at the next school shooting

 

[msommer]

Have you noticed that the party that represents the interests of gun manufacturers above all else is the one telling you not to trust the government? 

And are the same that currently control all parts of the government

 

[msommer]

Effective use of not quoting the next sentence to put the first in context. Here’s your gold star for effort. *

I say thank you for the softball. 

No guns equals no shooters - then we can tackle all the other issues in peace and safety

 

[apalmer]

What creates a shooter?  What makes a person capable of thinking they should murder innocent people in large groups?  The blame isn’t the gun. Almost zero people who have guns make this decision, so we know for a fact that just having a gun will not make someone try or do mass murder.  So get outta your single talking point and use that organ inside your skull.  How do you solve the root cause of mass shootings?  You fix the people.  Now, work on a real workable solution.  There are way more things to blame than I tried to address, so by all means, please offer your solutions to fix the broken people that do this.

Exactly zero people who don't have guns make this decision, so we know for a fact that having a gun makes it more likely.

 

[BAT1man]

Hint: you don't have to be a member of a party for them to tell you something.

Perhaps his response was just poorly worded so as to have two meanings. If so, my apologies for reading it the unintended way. If it was a question to me as to whether I have noticed that only one party thinks the way I do on why the 2nd amendment is too important to remove, I can’t really say. The R party seems to agree in much greater numbers, but I am aware that plenty of Ds own guns that I’m guessing they’d rather not have taken. 

 

[KCitons]

Then we are not doing a good enough job selecting our candidates.  I really think this whole party crap needs to go away and issues need to be worked on together.

Great idea. But how do we get that to happen?  If politicians are greedy, they certainly aren't looking at making any changes that would make things more difficult for themselves.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Great idea. But how do we get that to happen?  If politicians are greedy, they certainly aren't looking at making any changes that would make things more difficult for themselves.

Would be great if many of the people in this country would stop sucking at being decent human beings.  That's never going to happen though.

 

[BAT1man]

Of course.  But, at the present time only one party is doing its best to exalt untrustworthy behavior and take it to completely new levels.

Come on now.  There are plenty of people in both parties so despicable that I cannot believe they ever won an election. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

No not at all.  Dams contain a water reserve and then control the amount of water flow.  If they stopped water from flowing they would regularity overflow and fail.

Their function isn't to block water, it's to contain a reserve of it and then control the flow for a lot of useful purposes.

I thought about going with levees or something instead but that wasn't as good a metaphor. I figured most people would get the point.

 

[packersfan]

Would be great if many of the people in this country would stop sucking at being decent human beings.  That's never going to happen though.

Nope. Humans have been and always will be the worst. 

 

[msommer]

There's no point in having the discussion. This thread is a great example of what happens when somebody has a pro gun stance. The crowd turns to name calling and placing blame on that one person. Do you think other people want to express their opinions and subject themselves to that? It's not worth it. 

It's been repeated numerous times that 70% of the population is for tighter gun laws. Yet nothing changes. Why do the anti-gun people feel the need to berate the 30% of the population that don't align with your beliefs? The political system will correct itself if those numbers are accurate. Why worry about a percentage of the population that can't effect the outcome. Unless you believe that the number is closer to 50%?

Oh, I don't know. Last time we had this discussion you wanted to talk about cars and alcohol a lot. Given that you don't seem to want to go that route any more indicates that there is some value to the debate

 

[msommer]

Come on now.  There are plenty of people in both parties so despicable that I cannot believe they ever won an election. 

Ah, yes. Deflection didn't work so well, so now we try for the old BOF SIDEZZ!!

 

[Politician Spock]

I’m not sure why the left had eight years of Clinton and eight years of Obama (Clinton was the President during the Columbine Massacre, I believe) and never submitted once for consideration a bill to change the constitution, then?  Are they also in the pockets of the NRA?  

They haven’t and they won’t because that’s exactly what a government will do right before it takes away all of your other rights.  And that’s why we have that right in the first place. 

This fear mongering justification has become sophomoric. The founding fathers were wise to add the 2nd amendment in the context of the 18th century, given there were few to none examples of governments that didn't take away all of your rights.

Now, in the 21st century, we're able to see many governments around the world that do not take away all of your rights, and don't need a 2nd amendment to keep them from doing that. Why is that? It's because humans have matured over the centuries. In addition, in 1948 the United Nations ratified the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. When countries violate these Human Rights, that country has the world against them. To continue having the mindset of the founding fathers that without people bearing arms, the government will take away all our rights has become foolish. It ignores that we are now in the 21st century and there are countless governments around the world that don't need their people armed in order to continue allowing them their rights. 

Is the world and government perfect now? Of course not. There are still governments like North Korea and such, but again it's really sophomoric to think that if Americans can't own guns America would become South Korea. 

The more concerning question is what will America become as the number of guns in the country continues to grow and grow and grow. Heck, even the gun nuts in this thread admit we will be living in a prison state to keep us safe. That future is far more real and likely than us becoming South Korea because we lost the right to own guns. 

 

[tonydead]

I thought about going with levees or something instead but that wasn't as good a metaphor. I figured most people would get the point.

It was a horrible metaphor, anything would have been better.

 

[KCitons]

Oh, I don't know. Last time we had this discussion you wanted to talk about cars and alcohol a lot. Given that you don't seem to want to go that route any more indicates that there is some value to the debate

I could discuss it again, if you'd like. 

 

[Henry Ford]

When you said,”Have you noticed that the party...” in response to my post. You lumped me in with “the party” that you believe is to blame. You did. 

No, I didn’t. I suggested maybe you should look at who is telling you not to trust the government. 

 

[Henry Ford]

There in lies the problem. What if you have a choice between two candidates. One wants to ban guns, the other universal healthcare. Or perhaps any other number of either or choices. Sometimes you can't have both.

Then, given that it won’t be possible to ban guns without a constitutional amendment that isn’t going to happen and given that it’s going to take a lot of work but it is possible to get universal healthcare, I’ll be voting for the one who will fight for healthcare. 

 

[msommer]

I could discuss it again, if you'd like. 

Stealthycat has already tried it, with roughly the same results as you last time, so that would be pretty pointless

 

[TobiasFunke]

One more for those of you both sides-ing this issue and asking Dems to reach across the aisle:

Bipartisanship in Virginia does not extend to gun legislation
 

RICHMOND — Virginia’s legislature prides itself on moderation and civility, but there’s at least one issue where one side would rather fight than give an inch of compromise: guns.

Even in a year when Republicans have shown a willingness to consider the long-taboo topic of Medicaid expansion. Even as leadership has welcomed the first transgender delegate, the first Latinas, the first open lesbian.

Even amid compromise on criminal justice reform, and as lawmakers pose once-unthinkable challenges to the state’s most powerful corporation, Dominion Energy, guns appear to be untouchable.

Even after another school shooting in Florida on Valentine’s Day.

“It’s senseless. My heart goes out,” Del. Thomas C. Wright Jr. (R-Lunenberg) said Thursday. “But when it comes to the constitutional right to defend yourself and your family, that's something that’s guaranteed.”

Wright chairs Subcommittee 1 of the Militia, Police and Public Safety Committee, which is where most gun bills go and never come back in the Republican-controlled House.

This year his subcommittee has killed a host of bills, including one that would have required a minor to get parental permission before keeping guns in the home. It was sponsored by Del. Marcia S. “Cia” Price (D-Newport News) after a constituent complained about being unable to take away guns from a child who had fallen in with a bad crowd.

Another bill would have required licensed home day-care facilities to keep guns locked up while children were being cared for. Sponsored by Del. Patrick A. Hope (D-Arlington), the bill came after a 4-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed himself with a gun he found at day care.

Yet another would have let localities forbid the carrying of firearms or ammunition at major public events. That one, sponsored by Del. David J. Toscano (D-Charlottesville), was a response to last summer’s violent white supremacist rally in which militia members dressed like law enforcement and brandished weapons.

In fact, no legislation survives in this year’s General Assembly related to problems raised by the events in Charlottesville. State Attorney General Mark R. Herring (D) had supported bills that would allow state police to help local and federal officials identify hate groups, as well as a bill to prohibit organized groups from marching and brandishing weapons in a threatening way. Neither made it out of committee.

If you want change and you want politicians to help bring it about, there's only one option. It's obvious and undeniable and if you deny it you're part of the problem.

 

[Politician Spock]

I could discuss it again, if you'd like. 

Go ahead. It's your funeral. 

 

[KCitons]

Stealthycat has already tried it, with roughly the same results as you last time, so that would be pretty pointless

And how do you think Stealthycat will be voting? Do you think any of the conversations had here changes his opinion? 

Are you concerned that his vote could keep this country from making changes that you want to see?

 

[urbanhack]

Great idea. But how do we get that to happen?  If politicians are greedy, they certainly aren't looking at making any changes that would make things more difficult for themselves.

Step 1 - get money, special interests, lobbyists out of politics or at least start reducing the footprint.  This has to happen before anything else can.

 

[KCitons]

Go ahead. It's your funeral. 

Do you think my opinions have changed?

 

[Politician Spock]

Do you think my opinions have changed?

I can only hope. 

 

[KCitons]

Step 1 - get money, special interests, lobbyists out of politics or at least start reducing the footprint.  This has to happen before anything else can.

Ok. Let's do this! What is step one to step one. 

Do we need any help from the crooked politicians? 

Maybe we should see what step two looks like 

 

[urbanhack]

Ok. Let's do this! What is step one to step one. 

Do we need any help from the crooked politicians? 

Maybe we should see what step two looks like 

Step 1 of this first step is overturning Citizens United.

 

[KCitons]

I can only hope. 

Still the same. We live in a #### show of people that only care about their immediate gratification. Having the ability to shoot a gun is just one part of it. 

 

[Politician Spock]

Still the same. We live in a #### show of people that only care about their immediate gratification. Having the ability to shoot a gun is just one part of it. 

I'm well aware of that. The more they share their point of view, the more the rest of the voters see it, and move away from them. So as I said before, go ahead. It's your funeral. 

 

[Blick]

Step 1 - get money, special interests, lobbyists out of politics or at least start reducing the footprint.  This has to happen before anything else can.

May have had a chance if Bernie was given a fair shake.

 

[randall146]

There in lies the problem. What if you have a choice between two candidates. One wants to ban guns, the other universal healthcare. Or perhaps any other number of either or choices. Sometimes you can't have both.

I think you gave a bad example.  Candidates who want strict gun control are pretty likely to also want universal health care

 

[The General]

May have had a chance if Bernie was given a fair shake.

Something I learned reading through various gun related articles after this tragedy. Bernie voted for the law that protected gun dealers and manufacturers back in 2005. He he used the weak analogy that we don't hold a baseball bat company responsible if someone beats someone with a bat as recently as 2015.

 

[randall146]

And how do you think Stealthycat will be voting? Do you think any of the conversations had here changes his opinion? 

People debate not to convince their opponent, but to persuade their audience

 

[NREC34]

Something I learned reading through various gun related articles after this tragedy. Bernie voted for the law that protected gun dealers and manufacturers back in 2005. He he used the weak analogy that we don't hold a baseball bat company responsible if someone beats someone with a bat as recently as 2015.

Bernie was real uncomfortable talking about guns one of those debates. 

 

[packersfan]

Something I learned reading through various gun related articles after this tragedy. Bernie voted for the law that protected gun dealers and manufacturers back in 2005. He he used the weak analogy that we don't hold a baseball bat company responsible if someone beats someone with a bat as recently as 2015.

Sheesh Bernie. That's flat-out ignorant. 

 

[The General]

Bernie was real uncomfortable talking about guns one of those debates. 

I love Bernie when he gets going on many, many topics. This one not so much.

 

[Stealthycat]

I try not not to think ill of almost anyone here- even the people I disagree with most I’m pretty confident are good people. 

This comment makes me think ill of you

so let me get this straight

its popular for the left for gun owners to be blamed for when wacko shooters use guns to commit crimes. Look back on this thread at all the hateful things said to me because I'm a gun owner

but saying the school has a responsibility for the safety of those inside their walls makes you think ill of me ? 

I'd like to see a bit more thought process there.

 

[Stealthycat]

Yes. No more guns, no more shootings. Would you be willing to give up your guns if it guaranteed that?

If it was armed guards at ever entrance, no more school shootings .... would you be willing to help get that done?

 

[Stealthycat]

Based on some of your posts in the past I suspect that if some gun control measures were implemented you would deem them a failure as soon as a shooting was reported.  

absolutely not

we have gun control measures RIGHT NOW and this wacko walked through every one of them to kill people - but banning AR15's will literally have no effect on school shootings and gun crime overall

so why do it?

useless gun control measure that only impact legal gun owners is what the ACLU and NRA and Republican's fight. Thank God they do it too.

 

[Stealthycat]

This is the stupidest #### I've read in a while. 

its 100% fact

that you choose to not see it is because the left has told you not to

 

[Stealthycat]

No, we live in a Republic which is democratic....either way, it might be time to look for a new country.  It's clear you don't like the way this one works at all (except the parts that benefit you and keeps others down you deem worthy of being kept down).  

I will never leave my country, I have a deep love for my heritage, State and Country unlike many.