Vai Sikahema on Irvin's comment (1 Viewer)

[Peep It Yo!]

Seriously, who cares?

What does that mean? If Ron Jaworski were asked why Steve McNair was reading defenses so well and he replied, "Maybe he has some caucasian in him"..."Maybe his great great great great great great grandma got yanked from the barn and brought inside to the master's bedroom"...Jaws would be out of a job so fast it would make your head spin.Irvin should be fired. Yes he's a terrible media guy and I am a logical enough person to understand that he probably doesn't know any better...but tough crap. When he played on the football filed he had to learn the rules...he has been a journalist long enough to know he cannot get away with that type of stuff.

Great post here. If any white analyst were to say the above about McNair like MOP is saying, they would have Jesse Jackson on them, Al Sharpton, etc. The white guy would be fired and the "black community" would be in an uproar. Most white people don't really care about what Irvin said, but the double standard thing is out of control. There will never be equality between races until this kind of garbage is dealt with the same way in every situation regardless of what color the person talking is.Personally, I can't believe he can say that on the air and nothing happens to him.

 

[renesauz]

I am a relatively young white male with four children living in a city that's about 50-50 white black. I have always and will always treat all men the same INITIIALLY regardless of race, and I have struggled to teach this to my children.

What my darker brother have missed is that my children, and many other like them are starting to experiance the hatred and bias that your fathers and grandfathers experianced. My children are having a hard time understanding why their black schoolteacher seems to hate the white kids, often in obvious ways.

I know that there are still places in this country where the opposite occurs.

What we all have to realize is that the hard feelings many older black folks have may be fully justified and understandable, but we absolutely, positively CAN NOT AFFORD to let their feelings continue to trickle down to the younger generations, because by doing so, they have enabled racism to continue.

It is my generation that must take the lead (the 30-50 croud), white and black, to teach all of the younger folks how to speak and treat each other properly, how to judge each other on the basis of talents and moral integrity instead of color.

Michael Irvin falls into that crowd. He is part of the generation that absolutely MUST lead the way to true equality in all places, from the backwoods of Caroliina to the inner cities of the NorthEast. True equality will NEVER exist until all such statements and attitudes are stamped out, regardless of the origanators race.

The fact that no National uproar exists is a shame. He should be fired immediately. Is he evil? No more then my dead grandfather who always said "n-ers", even when his best friend was one. He's a misled, poorly educated fool who should NEVER be allowed into a position where he can make statements this stupid and ignorant to the teenagers and young twenty-somethings that so desperately need better guidance on this topic.

Sorry for the rant, but this has been a sore subject for me for a long time.

 

[nxmehta]

This is an irrelevant question right now. Nobody knows the answer to this, and frankly it's not important right now. We aren't close to being there yet, so crying out that "it has to stop sometime!" is undermining the feelings of those who are/were oppressed, implying that they should just get over it already. This question has no place to be asked, particularly if it is being asked by past/current oppressors.

I think it will stop when oppression ceases to exist in this world (and I do mean globally) but who knows when the hell that will happen. For now we have to deal with it.

It is not an irrelevant question. You can't take steps to move beyond something if you continue to permit the actions like Irvin's comment to be ignored or tell people to "deal with it", while you take swift and forceful actions to people of a different race for making comments of equal content.

Ok you got me there. This is not an irrelevant question. This is a harmful question, and the reasoning is not hard to understand. Try to understand this quote the anti-racist Tim Wise, who is white:“That many whites won’t be able to understand this simple point (not being able to say ‘######’) is testimony to nothing so much as our own sense of entitlement. In other words, we are not used to anyone telling us that we can’t do something, or shouldn’t, and as such take great offense when our own freedom, including the freedom to offend, is constrained.

What else can explain the white hysteria over so-called political correctness, which, after all, was really never anything but the desire for folks not to be racist pricks, and to inculcate a norm of civility and respect for persons different from oneself?

I can think of no other reason than the desire to maintain a certain form of white privilege: the privilege of saying whatever we want, whenever we want, and feeling as though our right to lecture others on their behavior should logically take precedence over controlling our own.

As with all racism, it is power and position that gives a racial slur its ability to injure. This is why slurs against whites like cracker or honky seem more juvenile than truly offensive. And this is why the n-word, spoken by whites, is so fundamentally less acceptable than the same term spoken by blacks, however potentially problematic the latter may be.”

 

[Yenrub]

I fail to understand how people fail to understand why the double standard exists. This country was built on a double standard, which, of course, carried over into sports. Now, a generation (if that) removed from publicly sanctioned racism against an entire ethnic group, people are puzzled and perturbed that an informal double standard exists the other way. Irvin is an idiot, and it would be great if we were at the point where race was no longer an issue. But we are not even close yet, so let us stop feigning bewilderment and indignation whenever comments are treated differently when emanating from blacks than from whites. It is all about historical context and (perceived) intent. It is amazing to me that so many people cannot seem to grasp this.

So, it's ok to be racist, so long as your skin color is black. Ok, NOW I get it. Thanks for the clarification.

That is not what my post says. I simply stated that in light of this country's history with regard to race, it is understandable that "racist" comments by whites about blacks are received more harshly than vice versa. For example, a white man calling a black man a "n****r" is NOT the same as a black man calling a white man a "honky". Those two words carry very different connotations. Neither is OK, but you do see the difference, no?

A white man calling a black man the N- word is offensive and deragatory. A black man calling a black man the N-word is a term of endearment go figure. I don't think Irvin is anymore racist than the next guy but he is a helluva lot more ignorant than most. The top part of my response is a little of subject but I needed to get it off my chest.

I have seen something like this posted on this board before and it’s not accurate. Sure there are some instances were it is correct but most of the time it isn’t.It’s all about context and attitude when someone is using the N-Word.

If a black guy calls another black guy the N-word and they don’t each other, not cool!

My brother (actual blood relative) can use the N-word when addressing me sometimes its cool sometimes it’s not. It all depends on how he is using the term.

It hard to type the differences on a message board the best example I can think of is Bernie Mac’s ‘breakdown of the word Mutha-F’er’

Bernie Mac

 

[cobalt_27]

This is an irrelevant question right now. Nobody knows the answer to this, and frankly it's not important right now. We aren't close to being there yet, so crying out that "it has to stop sometime!" is undermining the feelings of those who are/were oppressed, implying that they should just get over it already. This question has no place to be asked, particularly if it is being asked by past/current oppressors.

I think it will stop when oppression ceases to exist in this world (and I do mean globally) but who knows when the hell that will happen. For now we have to deal with it.

It is not an irrelevant question. You can't take steps to move beyond something if you continue to permit the actions like Irvin's comment to be ignored or tell people to "deal with it", while you take swift and forceful actions to people of a different race for making comments of equal content.

Ok you got me there. This is not an irrelevant question. This is a harmful question, and the reasoning is not hard to understand. Try to understand this quote the anti-racist Tim Wise, who is white:“That many whites won’t be able to understand this simple point (not being able to say ‘######’) is testimony to nothing so much as our own sense of entitlement. In other words, we are not used to anyone telling us that we can’t do something, or shouldn’t, and as such take great offense when our own freedom, including the freedom to offend, is constrained.

What else can explain the white hysteria over so-called political correctness, which, after all, was really never anything but the desire for folks not to be racist pricks, and to inculcate a norm of civility and respect for persons different from oneself?

I can think of no other reason than the desire to maintain a certain form of white privilege: the privilege of saying whatever we want, whenever we want, and feeling as though our right to lecture others on their behavior should logically take precedence over controlling our own.

As with all racism, it is power and position that gives a racial slur its ability to injure. This is why slurs against whites like cracker or honky seem more juvenile than truly offensive. And this is why the n-word, spoken by whites, is so fundamentally less acceptable than the same term spoken by blacks, however potentially problematic the latter may be.”

Kids, it's dangerous when amateurs attempt to play with logic.

This is so off the mark and so misrepresentative of the big picture, all you can really say is "WTF?"

 

[nxmehta]

Kids, it's dangerous when amateurs attempt to play with logic. This is so off the mark and so misrepresentative of the big picture, all you can really say is "WTF?"

Wow, great argument! I really see your point! Thanks for helping me understand!

 

[BaBastage]

I'll add my $.02 here.

Avoiding the larger question regarding dual standards, to me the question of "is a joke acceptable" depends on how it was received by the target, in this case Tony Romo.

Whenever one makes a jest toward another, they assume a risk. If the person on the receiving end understands it as a joke and handles it as such, then no harm has been done.

On the other hand, if the person becomes upset, then yes. Harm HAS been done, and an apology is due.

While I think this was intended as a peer-to-peer jest, it's a risky joke. And it puts Romo on the spot. Not that anyone will ask him, but he has no choice to shrug it off and take the high ground. Imagine if he were to say he was offended. He'd be grilled because people would think "What's the matter, you woudn't like it if you DID have some african heritage in you? You must be racist!"

Rambling on, I wonder what precedent has been set if they don't fire Irvin? What happens to the next white guy who says something offensive? ESPN could lose their ### on this one.

Finishing up with the off topic, obligatory Michael Irvin Joke: "NO, NO, NO!", said Irvin's agent. "I SAID NIKE AND PEPSI, NOT COKE AND NOOKIE!!!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Irvin...gs_and_injuries

 

[cobalt_27]

Kids, it's dangerous when amateurs attempt to play with logic. This is so off the mark and so misrepresentative of the big picture, all you can really say is "WTF?"

Wow, great argument! I really see your point! Thanks for helping me understand!

Not intended for you, I guess. Some are beyond effective cognitive rehab.

 

[nxmehta]

Not intended for you, I guess. Some are beyond effective cognitive rehab.

I was actually hoping to get a legitamate argument out of you from my sarcasm, but I'll take your silence as admission that you don't actually have a logical argument to respond with. Hit a little too close to home?Well, no use in me sticking around here, thanks for the discussion.

 

[jonessed]

Not intended for you, I guess. Some are beyond effective cognitive rehab.

I was actually hoping to get a legitamate argument out of you from my sarcasm, but I'll take your silence as admission that you don't actually have a logical argument to respond with. Hit a little too close to home?Well, no use in me sticking around here, thanks for the discussion.

What is there to argue? You believe racial slurs are OK as long as it's not a majority directing it at a minority, he doesn't. There isn't anywhere to go from that. The irony is that your position will ensure that racism is perpetuated indefinitely.

 

[cobalt_27]

Not intended for you, I guess. Some are beyond effective cognitive rehab.

I was actually hoping to get a legitamate argument out of you from my sarcasm, but I'll take your silence as admission that you don't actually have a logical argument to respond with. Hit a little too close to home?Well, no use in me sticking around here, thanks for the discussion.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Your incapable of absorbing anything resembling logic. Why bother? If you want to embrace racist attitudes, by all means, don't let reason get in your way.

 

[nxmehta]

What is there to argue? You believe racial slurs are OK as long as it's not a majority directing it at a minority, he doesn't. There isn't anywhere to go from that.

The irony is that your position will ensure that racism is perpetuated indefinitely.

Ok, I'll bite on this one since you're actually making an argument. Namely, that if I accept a double standard for racial slurs, in any situation, then I'm perpetuating racism. Now, I'm not arguing that double standards are ok for any racial slurs. My specific example was the n-word.Let's take the n-word for example again. Simply put, the historic use of the n-word in the white community is not one of mixed meaning. It is not a history in which we called our black friends or colleagues such a term, as if it meant little more than "hey there dude, let's go grab a burger and fries at the Mickey D's." In the mouths and hearts of whites, that word has only been used in the context of contempt, of presumed white superiority, of anti-black bigotry.

As such, for any white person to use it today is to force the black person hearing it to immediately wonder what's behind the comment, what the speaker's intent really is, in a way they don't have to sweat as readily when spoken by another black person. History creates a natural and internalized warning bell for any black person hearing a white person use the word, which, if triggered enough can create psychological scars far deeper than most whites could ever fully comprehend.

The real irony is that you're claiming that double standards for slurs are what will perpetuate racism forever. That's not the real problem here. If you're looking to understand why discussions between blacks and whites about racism are often so difficult in this country, you need only know this: when the subject is race and racism, whites and blacks are often not talking about the same thing. To white folks, racism is seen mostly as individual and interpersonal--as with the uttering of a prejudicial remark or bigoted slur. For blacks, it is that too, but typically more: namely, it is the pattern and practice of policies and social institutions, which have the effect of perpetuating deeply embedded structural inequalities between people on the basis of race. That's the real problem.

 

[pigskin pimp]

I am a relatively young white male with four children living in a city that's about 50-50 white black. I have always and will always treat all men the same INITIIALLY regardless of race, and I have struggled to teach this to my children.What my darker brother have missed is that my children, and many other like them are starting to experiance the hatred and bias that your fathers and grandfathers experianced. My children are having a hard time understanding why their black schoolteacher seems to hate the white kids, often in obvious ways.I know that there are still places in this country where the opposite occurs.What we all have to realize is that the hard feelings many older black folks have may be fully justified and understandable, but we absolutely, positively CAN NOT AFFORD to let their feelings continue to trickle down to the younger generations, because by doing so, they have enabled racism to continue.It is my generation that must take the lead (the 30-50 croud), white and black, to teach all of the younger folks how to speak and treat each other properly, how to judge each other on the basis of talents and moral integrity instead of color.Michael Irvin falls into that crowd. He is part of the generation that absolutely MUST lead the way to true equality in all places, from the backwoods of Caroliina to the inner cities of the NorthEast. True equality will NEVER exist until all such statements and attitudes are stamped out, regardless of the origanators race. The fact that no National uproar exists is a shame. He should be fired immediately. Is he evil? No more then my dead grandfather who always said "n-ers", even when his best friend was one. He's a misled, poorly educated fool who should NEVER be allowed into a position where he can make statements this stupid and ignorant to the teenagers and young twenty-somethings that so desperately need better guidance on this topic.Sorry for the rant, but this has been a sore subject for me for a long time.

Amen, brother.

 

[Death and Taxes]

Just turn off and tune out ESPN when Irvin comes on. If the product is bad or if you are offended, then dont watch.

I used to watch NFL Gameday and Prime Time, now I do not because I think Irvin is a terrible commentator. Irvin made a great show subpar in my opinion. If they don't fire him, I don't care because I don't watch him. Just like when Rush Limbaugh is on TV or on the radio, I tune out. He is crap also imo.

The comments are offensive by Irvin, both on a racial basis and the grandmother sex thing. No commentator should get away with saying such stuff no matter what race.

Notice it takes Sikahema, who is neither white or black to address the issue.

 

[Eagle Dude]

Seriously, who cares?

What does that mean? If Ron Jaworski were asked why Steve McNair was reading defenses so well and he replied, "Maybe he has some caucasian in him"..."Maybe his great great great great great great grandma got yanked from the barn and brought inside to the master's bedroom"...Jaws would be out of a job so fast it would make your head spin.

Not so much if Jaworski spoke that of McNair...but what if Jaworski said the same exact thing as Irvin regarding Romo? The country would go Michael Richards all over again. Total double standard.

 

[Righetti]

Did anyone catch deangelo halls comments to roy williams when he said"Where did you get the white boy at?"in reference to mike furreythat seems about as racist as anything irvin said

that white boy had a pretty good game today

 

[TheBaylorKid]

If you missed it, here is an oppotunity to

from the DPS.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Seriously, who cares?

What does that mean? If Ron Jaworski were asked why Steve McNair was reading defenses so well and he replied, "Maybe he has some caucasian in him"..."Maybe his great great great great great great grandma got yanked from the barn and brought inside to the master's bedroom"...Jaws would be out of a job so fast it would make your head spin.Irvin should be fired. Yes he's a terrible media guy and I am a logical enough person to understand that he probably doesn't know any better...but tough crap. When he played on the football filed he had to learn the rules...he has been a journalist long enough to know he cannot get away with that type of stuff.

Great post here. If any white analyst were to say the above about McNair like MOP is saying, they would have Jesse Jackson on them, Al Sharpton, etc. The white guy would be fired and the "black community" would be in an uproar. Most white people don't really care about what Irvin said, but the double standard thing is out of control. There will never be equality between races until this kind of garbage is dealt with the same way in every situation regardless of what color the person talking is.Personally, I can't believe he can say that on the air and nothing happens to him.

I was going to post in here again with the same exact comment you had. At this point the thread is going to veer off football if not already, but what are we supposed to do as white people? How am I supposed to act when I hear the things Irvin said. Am I supposed to just smile and say aw shucks that's just an ignorant man who doesn't no any better? Isn't that a disgrace to other black people that have taken the lead to curtail this type of behavior and progressively move forward? Why isn't the black community in some areas outraged?

 

[fatness]

At this point the thread is going to veer off football if not already, but what are we supposed to do as white people?

You could do what millions of people of various colors do: say "that guy's an idiot" and move on, instead of trying to make a small act of an idiot into some big overblown drama affecting entire races. There are plenty of victim dramas on the Oxygen channel already. That would be my suggestion.

 

[cobalt_27]

Seriously, who cares?

What does that mean? If Ron Jaworski were asked why Steve McNair was reading defenses so well and he replied, "Maybe he has some caucasian in him"..."Maybe his great great great great great great grandma got yanked from the barn and brought inside to the master's bedroom"...Jaws would be out of a job so fast it would make your head spin.

Not so much if Jaworski spoke that of McNair...but what if Jaworski said the same exact thing as Irvin regarding Romo? The country would go Michael Richards all over again. Total double standard.

Yeah, and apparently a segment on this board think that's tough poop and we should just "Deal with it."I couldn't think of anything more counterproductive. At some point, there has to be a standard--and that has to be applied equally. Otherwise, we'll always be "keeping score" as has also been suggested in these parts. Last I checked, we shouldn't be playing games with racist attitudes and social equality. It's this lack of seriousness that concerns me most.

Now, if we somehow come to a consensus that what Michael Irvin and Larry Johnson say are not offensive, fine. Then that standard should be applied the same if a white person says something similar. Limbaugh, for example, was as equally poor a choice as Irvin to be on ESPN's football centerpiece show. But, he was fired over his comments--his opinion--about how the media leans in favor of having a black QB succeed, which strikes me as no more offensive, no more racist, and no more absurd than what Irvin said, using black slaves as an explanation for Romo's skill sets. Meanwhile, Irvin's comments get swept under the rug by the Worldwide Leader. Both actions strike me at the extreme end of the absurd and reflect the absence of any direction--any philosophy--on how to deal with commentary that strikes racist attitudes.

And, to suggest that this frustration over the double-standard is held only by the "whining white guy" totally misses the point and the intent. There's nothing whiny about striving for equality. Rather, it takes a sober realization that any serious attempt to bridge the gap requires efforts at both ends of the divide. And, if we're talking about black and white, both need to do their part--and be held responsible FOR their part--to make this effort a successful enterprise.