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Veterans coming off bad seasons (1 Viewer)

E-Z Glider

Footballguy
The Talented Mr Roto's #1 fact from his 100 Crucial facts to know pre-draft is this...

Over the past three years, of all the players who finished in the top 10 on our Player Rater yet were drafted outside the top 40 (i.e., the players who greatly outperformed their draft slots), 73 percent of them were veterans coming off down seasons.
Despite the fact that "veteran" and "down seasons" are relatively subjective terms, I still find this to be a pretty powerful statement. Seems to me if you can identify these proven "veterans" who had "down seasons" and are capable of a comeback (ie: down season not due to old-age or an injury which still exists), one should be able to uncover some potential value. I left off players who are still experiencing injury, or who I dont think are capable of returning to previous levels (Crawford, Mauer, Morneau, etc).Im going to stick of offense, but here are a few I like... feel free to add or debate any of these choices.

1B - Dunn. Could have been the early appendicitis, could have just been a down year, but I feel very confident that he will outproduce his cost this season. His hot spring just ensures that Ill be targeting him.

2B - Uggla. Hard to say he had a down year as his overall numbers are pretty consistent with his past, but if you erase his 1st half and multiply his 2nd half x2, we'd be talking about the potential #1 pick in the draft, not the #4/5 2B off the board. I dont expect him to outproduce Pujols, but I wouldnt be surprised if he hit 10 more HRs than any 2B not named Cano/Kinsler and 20 more than the rest.

2B - Rickie Weeks. Yeah, yeah, I know all about his history, but his accidents have all been freak and his numbers were down because of his ankle injury (which is all better now). There is risk/history, but Im taking the discount and hoping for a healthy season.

SS - HamRam seems like the obvious choice, but Ive read a few articles that scared the hell out of me. Ill see if I can find them. Something about them going in for the surgery and finding like 5 problems instead of just one and the difficulties of rebuilding your shoulder/back. Im passing on this one.

3B - Wright, I guess, though he doesnt seem to be going for much of a discount?

OF - CarGo. He could/should be back to the #1 OF with a healthy season of ABs.

OF - Soo-Choo. Again, injuries / off-field issues wrecked his 2011 season. No reason not to expect a big rebound. Ill take the discount.

OF - Jayson Werth. Struggled in his first season away from the friendly confines of Citizen Bank and the lineup protection. Could have a nice bounce-back season with an improved lineup/team around him.

OF - Andre Ethier. Another case of injury sapping power. Love him as a value pick this year.

Also, the flip-side of this is coming up with a list of players who had "career years" and are over-valued, or not likely to live up to ADP or auction value.

Feel free to add....

 
Considering the hype and contract he signed, Carl Crawford definitely comes to mind.
yeah, the nagging wrist injury and fact that he wont be ready for opening day still scares me. he's also getting a bit long in the tooth to expect him to lead the league in steals ever again. if healthy, he should be a good value play though.
 
I think Werth is going to bounce back. Although it's hard to put too much stock into spring numbers, he's been having a solid spring, including a blast yesterday that one of the local columnists measured at around 490 feet. He should also benefit because he was frequently in the leadoff or #2 spot last year, and Davey has said that he'll be consistently lower in the lineup this year, which should increase his RBI totals.

 
You guys named most that popped in my head. Werth and Mauer seem to be great value.

I have seen Kevin Youkilis falling pretty far.

For pitchers, Ubaldo Jiminez

 
For hitters, aside from the obvious ones mentioned (Dunn, CarGo, Wright) I like Alex Rios and Delmon Young to come back in a big way this year. Especially Young, who should drive in 100 runs by accident hitting behind Miggy and Prince.

On the hill, Liriano bounces back in a big way this year IMO. He finally seems healthy. Also David Price had a pretty excellent year last year but this time the results will match the performance (much lower ERA and 5 more wins than in '11).

 
'Carver said:
Joe Mauer
What would a rebound season for Mauer be? Other than playing 130 games?
.325 20+ HR90+ R90+ RBIThat's top 3 catcher numbers and he's going in the C5-C7 range in drafts IIRC. He's motivated, he's healthy, and he's done it before. There is risk here, but he's a classic candidate for this thread.
 
'Carver said:
Joe Mauer
What would a rebound season for Mauer be? Other than playing 130 games?
.325 20+ HR90+ R90+ RBIThat's top 3 catcher numbers and he's going in the C5-C7 range in drafts IIRC. He's motivated, he's healthy, and he's done it before. There is risk here, but he's a classic candidate for this thread.
Mauer has hit more than 20HRs once in his career. I see no reason to expect he will hit more than 10 or so HRs.The rest of the numbers seem reasonable.
 
A few guys I would let other guys try on would be Mauer and Dunn.

I like Mauer, great player, but the only category I can see him helping out in is average, and that's only if he gets 600+ pa's. The new ball park isn't very home run friendly and that lineup is not exactly murderer's row.

Dunn is another guy that I'm avoiding. Sure, there is no way he gets any worse than last year. But that long swing is not getting any faster with age. He's always struck out a lot, and now he is not getting walks. He looks lost out there. I think he can get 20-25 hr's, but I also think he will not contribute in any other areas, and will kill your ba if you're in a ba league and no longer a obp+ player, maybe .340 guy on a good season.

CarGo is an obvious guy, but I don't see him slipping very far in drafts.

If someone could assure me Crawford's wrist wouldn't be an issue, I'd back him, but the fact he isn't really getting after it yet and season starts in a week, well, I wouldn't overpay.

How about Ryan Zimmerman for a comeback? He was hurt last year, only had 12 homers, but he's just a few years removed from some nice seasons, and I'm high on the Nats this year, I think he could be a great pick.

Also, put me on board with ARod this year. Yeah, I know this guy isn't getting any younger, and coming off an injury, but in that ball park with that lineup around him, give me 550 AB's, I think you see 35 hr, 100 runs, 100 rbis. Been reading a whole bunch of stuff about some bonuses that come in with him reaching hr milestones, and I think he has a real nice year.

 
I think Phil Hughes will have a very good year. He'll have the typical stat maiming Yankee stadium to deal with as well as a monster division, but I still think he has a legit shot at 17 Ws with respectable or better era, whip and ks

 
Dunn is another guy that I'm avoiding. Sure, there is no way he gets any worse than last year. But that long swing is not getting any faster with age. He's always struck out a lot, and now he is not getting walks. He looks lost out there. I think he can get 20-25 hr's, but I also think he will not contribute in any other areas, and will kill your ba if you're in a ba league and no longer a obp+ player, maybe .340 guy on a good season.
Adam Dunn has been on fire this spring. In 36 plate appearances, the brawny lefty has belted four home runs to go along with 12 RBIs and an impressive slash line of .308/.500/.808. Normally, for an 11-year veteran with a career OPS+ of 127, spring numbers, regardless of how impressive, wouldn’t even amount to a footnote. However, in 2011, Dunn had anything but a normal year. In fact, his inaugural campaign with the White Sox was probably one of the worst ever turned in by a player of his caliber.
Big bounce back year coming.
 
Fair enough, I probably should have gone 15ish on HRs. His 2010 doesn't scare me at all because fluctuation between doubles and HRs happens all the time. We're really only talking about one horrible season.

ETA: Mauer

 
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Also, put me on board with ARod this year. Yeah, I know this guy isn't getting any younger, and coming off an injury, but in that ball park with that lineup around him, give me 550 AB's, I think you see 35 hr, 100 runs, 100 rbis. Been reading a whole bunch of stuff about some bonuses that come in with him reaching hr milestones, and I think he has a real nice year.
Hasn't had 550 AB's since 2007.
 
A few guys I would let other guys try on would be Mauer and Dunn.I like Mauer, great player, but the only category I can see him helping out in is average, and that's only if he gets 600+ pa's. The new ball park isn't very home run friendly and that lineup is not exactly murderer's row.Dunn is another guy that I'm avoiding. Sure, there is no way he gets any worse than last year. But that long swing is not getting any faster with age. He's always struck out a lot, and now he is not getting walks. He looks lost out there. I think he can get 20-25 hr's, but I also think he will not contribute in any other areas, and will kill your ba if you're in a ba league and no longer a obp+ player, maybe .340 guy on a good season.CarGo is an obvious guy, but I don't see him slipping very far in drafts. If someone could assure me Crawford's wrist wouldn't be an issue, I'd back him, but the fact he isn't really getting after it yet and season starts in a week, well, I wouldn't overpay.How about Ryan Zimmerman for a comeback? He was hurt last year, only had 12 homers, but he's just a few years removed from some nice seasons, and I'm high on the Nats this year, I think he could be a great pick.Also, put me on board with ARod this year. Yeah, I know this guy isn't getting any younger, and coming off an injury, but in that ball park with that lineup around him, give me 550 AB's, I think you see 35 hr, 100 runs, 100 rbis. Been reading a whole bunch of stuff about some bonuses that come in with him reaching hr milestones, and I think he has a real nice year.
Both CarGo and Zimmerman are going really high from what I've seen.ARod is an interesting call.Crawford I would absolutely love as a rebound candidate, but man wrist injuries are the worst.
 
Crawford I would absolutely love as a rebound candidate, but man wrist injuries are the worst.
Im actually starting to warm to the idea of Crawford. As far back as January, reports said it was a minor procedure that shouldnt effect his future at all, but would make him questionable for the start of the season. He had a setback from pushing too hard too quick and is now out for the start of the season. Everything still indicates it was a minor procedure and shouldnt linger. This may be a case where the injury just gives a better discount. Id be happy with 15HRs and 40SBs. The question is whether he produces enough to hold a lineup spot which gives him the counting stats too. If he comes at a nice discount, Im buying.
 
Joe Mauer
What would a rebound season for Mauer be? Other than playing 130 games?
.325 20+ HR90+ R90+ RBIThat's top 3 catcher numbers and he's going in the C5-C7 range in drafts IIRC. He's motivated, he's healthy, and he's done it before. There is risk here, but he's a classic candidate for this thread.
Mauer has hit more than 20HRs once in his career. I see no reason to expect he will hit more than 10 or so HRs.The rest of the numbers seem reasonable.
Maybe the sky will collapse over Target Field so the Twins can move their home games back to the Metrodome :shrug:
 
Fair enough, I probably should have gone 15ish on HRs. His 2010 doesn't scare me at all because fluctuation between doubles and HRs happens all the time. We're really only talking about one horrible season.ETA: Mauer
Even 15 home runs seems overly optimistic. I think 10 is a reasonable expectation.
 
Not to overreact to one game, but Ichiro fits the theme, here.

If he gets even a *tiny* bit of his mojo back, .300+ should come naturally enough...and of course, history says he could go well above that number.

If he stays in the three hole, his runs take a hit, but analysis suggests that batting order doesn't affect steals much, and if you watched Ichiro legging out hoppers in that A's game today, it's at least clear he's still got the wheels.

And of course, the big thing is, if he hits 3 all year, his RBI's spike by 50 or so over his leadoff days.

.310/10/40, with 80 or so runs and 90 or more RBI's? Maybe? 3rd round value, going in the 7th-9th.

 
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And don't know if they count as "off bad season" guys...since both HAD bad seasons, but it was hardly noteworthy at the time...

Ryan Doumit - C eligible, and should see almost-full-time AB's, rotating among OF, DH, and C. Doumit could always hit a little, so if he can get nicely up over 400 AB's, he'd be a mid round C value probably available in most free agent pools for nothing.

Mike Aviles - Was always an intriguing guy with the ability to contribute in speed/power/avg., without being particularly strong in any. Now that he won the starting job in Boston, he's in a nice little lineup, no matter where he ends up batting. I think numbers similar to what I'm seeing projected for Dustin Ackley aren't out of the question, and again, he's free.

 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Huge on Morales this season. :thumbup:Don't know if they'll handle him with kid gloves, but assuming not, he'll be in the heart of that Angels lineup pretty much 90% of the year. Guy played 2 years of MVP-level ball before the home plate incident. I think he's only taken a few live AB's in spring, but he mashed them. With that kind of upside, and that discounted a price, I don't need a huge sample size to pull the trigger.Reaching for him around the 12th/13th every draft, just to be super-sure I don't miss out. Give me MVP upside over Melky Cabrera every time.
 
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what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Huge on Morales this season. :thumbup: Don't know if they'll handle him with kid gloves, but assuming not, he'll be in the heart of that Angels lineup pretty much 90% of the year. Guy played 2 years of MVP-level ball before the home plate incident. I think he's only taken a few live AB's in spring, but he mashed them. With that kind of upside, and that discounted a price, I don't need a huge sample size to pull the trigger.

Reaching for him around the 12th/13th every draft, just to be super-sure I don't miss out. Give me MVP upside over Melky Cabrera every time.
Guy went in the 4th round in our keeper league.........WAY EARLY(at least a couple rounds too early)
 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Huge on Morales this season. :thumbup: Don't know if they'll handle him with kid gloves, but assuming not, he'll be in the heart of that Angels lineup pretty much 90% of the year. Guy played 2 years of MVP-level ball before the home plate incident. I think he's only taken a few live AB's in spring, but he mashed them. With that kind of upside, and that discounted a price, I don't need a huge sample size to pull the trigger.

Reaching for him around the 12th/13th every draft, just to be super-sure I don't miss out. Give me MVP upside over Melky Cabrera every time.
Guy went in the 4th round in our keeper league.........WAY EARLY(at least a couple rounds too early)
I guess he's going even higher than I feared in some leagues, then.I see on a couple of the big online sites he's going in the 200 overall range in drafts. I guess I'm glad I got in before his price became too rich.

I'll happily stake my chances on him over every other 1b playing outside of the top 8 or so. After...what, Hosmer? Do I really want Michael Morse over Morales? I don't think so. Rather let it slide, grab a couple of those nicely-valued mid-round SP's this year, and take my chances.

:thumbup:

 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Major logjam taking place in Anaheim. Love Kendrys but not sure how much playing time he's going to get if he doesn't hit the ground running.
Logjam is zero issue for his PT, it's all on his bum ankle. His season ending setback last year coupled with a preseason setback this year scares me away from using any spot other than UTIL on the guy, if I screwed up and don't have one I may look at a Morales/Trumbo combo at CI too. Thankfully that didn't happen in any of my leagues.
 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Major logjam taking place in Anaheim. Love Kendrys but not sure how much playing time he's going to get if he doesn't hit the ground running.
Logjam is zero issue for his PT, it's all on his bum ankle. His season ending setback last year coupled with a preseason setback this year scares me away from using any spot other than UTIL on the guy, if I screwed up and don't have one I may look at a Morales/Trumbo combo at CI too. Thankfully that didn't happen in any of my leagues.
Probably a key point here is, if you DO choose to field Morales at one of your CI spots, it's probably worth it to stash at least a decent sleeper on your pine. Fall back on Mat Gamel or whatever, in case of emergency.
 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Major logjam taking place in Anaheim. Love Kendrys but not sure how much playing time he's going to get if he doesn't hit the ground running.
Logjam is zero issue for his PT, it's all on his bum ankle. His season ending setback last year coupled with a preseason setback this year scares me away from using any spot other than UTIL on the guy, if I screwed up and don't have one I may look at a Morales/Trumbo combo at CI too. Thankfully that didn't happen in any of my leagues.
What setback? Guy had a sore calf after basically not sprinting for two years; that was to be expected.
 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Huge on Morales this season. :thumbup: Don't know if they'll handle him with kid gloves, but assuming not, he'll be in the heart of that Angels lineup pretty much 90% of the year. Guy played 2 years of MVP-level ball before the home plate incident. I think he's only taken a few live AB's in spring, but he mashed them. With that kind of upside, and that discounted a price, I don't need a huge sample size to pull the trigger.

Reaching for him around the 12th/13th every draft, just to be super-sure I don't miss out. Give me MVP upside over Melky Cabrera every time.
Guy went in the 4th round in our keeper league.........WAY EARLY(at least a couple rounds too early)
I guess he's going even higher than I feared in some leagues, then.I see on a couple of the big online sites he's going in the 200 overall range in drafts. I guess I'm glad I got in before his price became too rich.

I'll happily stake my chances on him over every other 1b playing outside of the top 8 or so. After...what, Hosmer? Do I really want Michael Morse over Morales? I don't think so. Rather let it slide, grab a couple of those nicely-valued mid-round SP's this year, and take my chances.

:thumbup:
:thumbup: Im thinking of going cheap at 1B/CI and targeting 3 of Morales/Dunn/Swisher/Butler/Moreland instead of one of the studs and spending my money elsewhere.

 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Major logjam taking place in Anaheim. Love Kendrys but not sure how much playing time he's going to get if he doesn't hit the ground running.
Logjam is zero issue for his PT, it's all on his bum ankle. His season ending setback last year coupled with a preseason setback this year scares me away from using any spot other than UTIL on the guy, if I screwed up and don't have one I may look at a Morales/Trumbo combo at CI too. Thankfully that didn't happen in any of my leagues.
Probably a key point here is, if you DO choose to field Morales at one of your CI spots, it's probably worth it to stash at least a decent sleeper on your pine. Fall back on Mat Gamel or whatever, in case of emergency.
Did just this in one of my money leagues on Sunday. Took Kendrys with pick 146 and scooped up Lucas Duda 5 rounds later. :thumbup:
 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Major logjam taking place in Anaheim. Love Kendrys but not sure how much playing time he's going to get if he doesn't hit the ground running.
Logjam is zero issue for his PT, it's all on his bum ankle. His season ending setback last year coupled with a preseason setback this year scares me away from using any spot other than UTIL on the guy, if I screwed up and don't have one I may look at a Morales/Trumbo combo at CI too. Thankfully that didn't happen in any of my leagues.
Probably a key point here is, if you DO choose to field Morales at one of your CI spots, it's probably worth it to stash at least a decent sleeper on your pine. Fall back on Mat Gamel or whatever, in case of emergency.
Did just this in one of my money leagues on Sunday. Took Kendrys with pick 146 and scooped up Lucas Duda 5 rounds later. :thumbup:
10th-12th round is a decent spot for a risk/reward pick like Morales. 4th round in a keeper seems really over optimistic.
 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Major logjam taking place in Anaheim. Love Kendrys but not sure how much playing time he's going to get if he doesn't hit the ground running.
Logjam is zero issue for his PT, it's all on his bum ankle. His season ending setback last year coupled with a preseason setback this year scares me away from using any spot other than UTIL on the guy, if I screwed up and don't have one I may look at a Morales/Trumbo combo at CI too. Thankfully that didn't happen in any of my leagues.
What setback? Guy had a sore calf after basically not sprinting for two years; that was to be expected.
Wasn't he out for 2 weeks? Sore calves don't take 2 weeks to come back from.
 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Major logjam taking place in Anaheim. Love Kendrys but not sure how much playing time he's going to get if he doesn't hit the ground running.
Logjam is zero issue for his PT, it's all on his bum ankle. His season ending setback last year coupled with a preseason setback this year scares me away from using any spot other than UTIL on the guy, if I screwed up and don't have one I may look at a Morales/Trumbo combo at CI too. Thankfully that didn't happen in any of my leagues.
What setback? Guy had a sore calf after basically not sprinting for two years; that was to be expected.
Wasn't he out for 2 weeks? Sore calves don't take 2 weeks to come back from.
Broken ankles don't take two years to come back from either
 
Longoria has to do something as the alleged leader of that team.

Crawford is straight value

A-Rod - No Thank you

Cargo will never approach the #1 OF again. :blackdot:

Corey Hart

James Loney

Sandoval

Helton

Kurt Suzuki

Polanco

 
what do we think about Kendrys Morales?
Major logjam taking place in Anaheim. Love Kendrys but not sure how much playing time he's going to get if he doesn't hit the ground running.
Really don't see bums like Abreu or Trumbo taking ABs away from Kendrys. Guy's gonna be on every one of my rosters
I like Kendrys a lot, but with all those guys around, I'm not expecting more than 400-4350 ABs. They'll be plenty productive, but leave a lot of stats on the table in rotisserie.
 

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