Vick plea does not include killing dogs or gambling (1 Viewer)

[Mimo]

This is per ESPNews

So what is he pleading guilty to?

 

[Slingblade]

Sucking as a QB.

 

[thehornet]

operating a dogfighting ring, raketeering, conspiracy, blah,blah, blah blan blah and so on....read the indictment if you want...its all over the web.

 

[mad sweeney]

This is per ESPNewsSo what is he pleading guilty too?

We'll all find out Monday. Can we stop this thread before it becomes another out of control speculative Vick thread please.

 

[ImTheScientist]

being a stupid POS who is an average throwing QB at best?

Is that really needed?

 

[Chaos Commish]

being a stupid POS who is an average throwing QB at best?

Ugh... Joe can't keep the tools in the shed tonight.I posted in another thread a couple days ago that Vick claims no knowledge of the tortured dogs, and I tend to believe him here. AND more importantly the Feds are accepting this, so keep your pants on. Vick will never shake the false label (dog torturing murderer), but that's fair punishment to me. The incredibly inflammable wording was used for media leverage (and boy did it work) but probably was not something that could have ever stuck to Vick (nor do I believe for one second was part of his criminal conduct). Peta bs doesn't sway me. I've been to court examining similar issues before. I know the Peta MO and it was all over this one from the start. Vick did not have losing dogs brutally tortured and killed for costing him money. It doesn't work that way. He did have some inhumane, sick nutcases on the yard killing dogs with complete incompetency, and there's no excuse for that. There's a ton more to this story, but as the quote displays, it's impossible to discuss rationally anymore.

 

[mad sweeney]

being a stupid POS who is an average throwing QB at best?

Is that really needed?

Is this thread really needed? ESPN has speculated for the whole Vick fiasco and been way off on most of it. Mort "reported" that Vick would be starting this season originally. In the same segment they were saying details of the plea agreement will not be made public until Monday, they have a reporter "reporting" that the deal is for 10-12 months. Totally contradicting themselves. Or 12-18, depending on which Sportcenter slot you watch. It's all speculation until Vick goes to court on Monday so do we really need to get into another Vick thread that ranges from opinions of his skills to constitutional inadequacies. Just drop it until there's something real and justifiable, not speculation.

 

[Sweat Hog]

being a stupid POS who is an average throwing QB at best?

Ugh... Joe can't keep the tools in the shed tonight.I posted in another thread a couple days ago that Vick claims no knowledge of the tortured dogs, and I tend to believe him here. AND more importantly the Feds are accepting this, so keep your pants on. Vick will never shake the false label (dog torturing murderer), but that's fair punishment to me. The incredibly inflammable wording was used for media leverage (and boy did it work) but probably was not something that could have ever stuck to Vick (nor do I believe for one second was part of his criminal conduct). Peta bs doesn't sway me. I've been to court examining similar issues before. I know the Peta MO and it was all over this one from the start. Vick did not have losing dogs brutally tortured and killed for costing him money. It doesn't work that way. He did have some inhumane, sick nutcases on the yard killing dogs with complete incompetency, and there's no excuse for that. There's a ton more to this story, but as the quote displays, it's impossible to discuss rationally anymore.

Dad?I always knew you were a closet fantasy footballer!

 

[3C's]

This is per ESPNewsSo what is he pleading guilty to?

ESPN speculation/rumor: Vick will plead to admit guilt to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.Speculating by me: If true, the prosecution won't accept the plea and the case goes to trial.

 

[David Yudkin]

ESPN is reporting that Vick will be pleading guilty to a charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.

One would assume that this does not pin Vick legally on killing dogs, actively participating in or attending the actual dog fights, or anything gambling related.

Given what else has come out, I wonder what this does to the NFL's position on what they are planning on doing (if that will change at all).

 

[3C's]

being a stupid POS who is an average throwing QB at best?

Ugh... Joe can't keep the tools in the shed tonight.I posted in another thread a couple days ago that Vick claims no knowledge of the tortured dogs, and I tend to believe him here.

So the fact that 2 of his co-defendants say he was there and participated in the killings of those 8 dogs is false?

 

[3C's]

KFFL: Matt Kempner, of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick was deep into dogfighting, according to his father, Michael Boddie. Boddie said he tried to push his son to quit dogfighting years ago or, at least, put property used for the fights in the name of friends. He also said he kept some of Vick's fighting dogs in the family's backyard and nursed the dogs back to health. Vick has refused to speak to his father for the past 2 1/2 months.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

KFFL: Matt Kempner, of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick was deep into dogfighting, according to his father, Michael Boddie. Boddie said he tried to push his son to quit dogfighting years ago or, at least, put property used for the fights in the name of friends. He also said he kept some of Vick's fighting dogs in the family's backyard and nursed the dogs back to health. Vick has refused to speak to his father for the past 2 1/2 months.

Here is what I don't get.If Michael Vick's mother is a Boddie and now Michael Vick's father is a Boddie...how is Michael Vick Michael Vick. Is there a woodchuck in there or something?

 

[3C's]

KFFL: Matt Kempner, of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick was deep into dogfighting, according to his father, Michael Boddie. Boddie said he tried to push his son to quit dogfighting years ago or, at least, put property used for the fights in the name of friends. He also said he kept some of Vick's fighting dogs in the family's backyard and nursed the dogs back to health. Vick has refused to speak to his father for the past 2 1/2 months.

Here is what I don't get.If Michael Vick's mother is a Boddie and now Michael Vick's father is a Boddie...how is Michael Vick Michael Vick. Is there a woodchuck in there or something?

Mother's maiden name is Vick. She didn't marry Boddie for a while. Kids took her name.

 

[CrossEyed]

Why would the feds accept such a plea?

 

[prymetyme25]

KFFL: Matt Kempner, of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick was deep into dogfighting, according to his father, Michael Boddie. Boddie said he tried to push his son to quit dogfighting years ago or, at least, put property used for the fights in the name of friends. He also said he kept some of Vick's fighting dogs in the family's backyard and nursed the dogs back to health. Vick has refused to speak to his father for the past 2 1/2 months.

I wonder y?

 

[chris1969]

being a stupid POS who is an average throwing QB at best?

Ugh... Joe can't keep the tools in the shed tonight.I posted in another thread a couple days ago that Vick claims no knowledge of the tortured dogs, and I tend to believe him here. AND more importantly the Feds are accepting this, so keep your pants on. Vick will never shake the false label (dog torturing murderer), but that's fair punishment to me. The incredibly inflammable wording was used for media leverage (and boy did it work) but probably was not something that could have ever stuck to Vick (nor do I believe for one second was part of his criminal conduct). Peta bs doesn't sway me. I've been to court examining similar issues before. I know the Peta MO and it was all over this one from the start. Vick did not have losing dogs brutally tortured and killed for costing him money. It doesn't work that way. He did have some inhumane, sick nutcases on the yard killing dogs with complete incompetency, and there's no excuse for that. There's a ton more to this story, but as the quote displays, it's impossible to discuss rationally anymore.

Come on Chaos. I know you like the guy, but enough is enough. Absolutely no knowledge of the dog fighting? I know you can't honestly "tend to believe him" there. If you believe that then you believe that his "Ron Mexico" alias came to be because of his support of NAFTA! No knowledge of the dog fighting that his property was specifically modified to support? He didn't notice the rape stands and cattle prodders when he was in town to buy puppy chow and syringes every couple of weeks? I'm not even talking about all his unemployed, no good, buddies pointing the finger at the one guy in that house that can afford to bankroll an operation like this, but also the FBI insiders that can not only tell you how much Vick himself bet, but where he buried the bodies. What will it take to convince you Chaos? Even the guys Grandpa went on TV to condemn what he did!

 

[3C's]

KFFL: Matt Kempner, of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick was deep into dogfighting, according to his father, Michael Boddie. Boddie said he tried to push his son to quit dogfighting years ago or, at least, put property used for the fights in the name of friends. He also said he kept some of Vick's fighting dogs in the family's backyard and nursed the dogs back to health. Vick has refused to speak to his father for the past 2 1/2 months.

I wonder y?

Not sure what you mean. Michael Boddie != Davon Boddie.

 

[burd]

don't really care anymore .... if ever

 

[fatkid]

being a stupid POS who is an average throwing QB at best?

Ugh... Joe can't keep the tools in the shed tonight.I posted in another thread a couple days ago that Vick claims no knowledge of the tortured dogs, and I tend to believe him here. AND more importantly the Feds are accepting this, so keep your pants on. Vick will never shake the false label (dog torturing murderer), but that's fair punishment to me. The incredibly inflammable wording was used for media leverage (and boy did it work) but probably was not something that could have ever stuck to Vick (nor do I believe for one second was part of his criminal conduct). Peta bs doesn't sway me. I've been to court examining similar issues before. I know the Peta MO and it was all over this one from the start. Vick did not have losing dogs brutally tortured and killed for costing him money. It doesn't work that way. He did have some inhumane, sick nutcases on the yard killing dogs with complete incompetency, and there's no excuse for that. There's a ton more to this story, but as the quote displays, it's impossible to discuss rationally anymore.

My Understanding is that killing dogs is not a federal crime, and he was never charged in federal court with that crime. The evidence was entered in to tie him to the dog-fighting ring, showing his participation at every level with the endevor. There are no killing dog charges in the Federal case.Killing dogs is a State crime, and if he admitted doing that in the federal case, the state could use that as evidence against him. By keeping it out of the federal statement he is signing, and by pleading guilty, he is forcing the State of Virgina to prove in Court that he killed the dogs to make those potential charges stick.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

ESPN is reporting that Vick will be pleading guilty to a charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.

One would assume that this does not pin Vick legally on killing dogs, actively participating in or attending the actual dog fights, or anything gambling related.

Given what else has come out, I wonder what this does to the NFL's position on what they are planning on doing (if that will change at all).

It's all about the gambling.Even if card games were Vick's hobby, he'd be in hot water with the NFL if he were illegally gambling tens of thousands of dollars playing cards. This is part of Paragraph 15 of the standard NFL player contract (entitled "INTEGRITY OF GAME"), and it's posted in every NFL locker room:

Among the types of conduct detrimental to the NFL and professional football that call for serious penalties are the following: [...]

4. Associating with gamblers or with gambling activities in a manner tending to bring discredit to the NFL.

Any such conduct may result in severe penalties, up to and including a fine and/or suspension from the NFL for life.

 

[cstu]

ESPN is reporting that Vick will be pleading guilty to a charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.One would assume that this does not pin Vick legally on killing dogs, actively participating in or attending the actual dog fights, or anything gambling related.Given what else has come out, I wonder what this does to the NFL's position on what they are planning on doing (if that will change at all).

It's all about the gambling.Even if card games were Vick's hobby, he'd be in hot water with the NFL if he were illegally gambling tens of thousands of dollars playing cards. This is part of Paragraph 15 of the standard NFL player contract (entitled "INTEGRITY OF GAME"), and it's posted in every NFL locker room: Among the types of conduct detrimental to the NFL and professional football that call for serious penalties are the following: [...] 4. Associating with gamblers or with gambling activities in a manner tending to bring discredit to the NFL. Any such conduct may result in severe penalties, up to and including a fine and/or suspension from the NFL for life.

They could suspend him, but then they'd have to prove his gambling and without a conviction in the plea bargain it's unlikely.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

ESPN is reporting that Vick will be pleading guilty to a charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.One would assume that this does not pin Vick legally on killing dogs, actively participating in or attending the actual dog fights, or anything gambling related.Given what else has come out, I wonder what this does to the NFL's position on what they are planning on doing (if that will change at all).

It's all about the gambling.Even if card games were Vick's hobby, he'd be in hot water with the NFL if he were illegally gambling tens of thousands of dollars playing cards. This is part of Paragraph 15 of the standard NFL player contract (entitled "INTEGRITY OF GAME"), and it's posted in every NFL locker room: Among the types of conduct detrimental to the NFL and professional football that call for serious penalties are the following: [...] 4. Associating with gamblers or with gambling activities in a manner tending to bring discredit to the NFL. Any such conduct may result in severe penalties, up to and including a fine and/or suspension from the NFL for life.

They could suspend him, but then they'd have to prove his gambling and without a conviction in the plea bargain it's unlikely.

Are you ####### nuts?The other defendants have come out and said that there was heavy money involved.He associates with them. What part don't you get?

 

[Truman]

You don't get suspended for life from the NFL for gambling. Guys have bet on NFL games in the past and the biggest penalty has been a year.

 

[3C's]

You don't get suspended for life from the NFL for gambling. Guys have bet on NFL games in the past and the biggest penalty has been a year.

What? Back in the '60s? Different era.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

You don't get suspended for life from the NFL for gambling. Guys have bet on NFL games in the past and the biggest penalty has been a year.

Link?Just curious...

 

[Wilbur Wood]

ESPN is reporting that Vick will be pleading guilty to a charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.

One would assume that this does not pin Vick legally on killing dogs, actively participating in or attending the actual dog fights, or anything gambling related.

Given what else has come out, I wonder what this does to the NFL's position on what they are planning on doing (if that will change at all).

It's all about the gambling.Even if card games were Vick's hobby, he'd be in hot water with the NFL if he were illegally gambling tens of thousands of dollars playing cards. This is part of Paragraph 15 of the standard NFL player contract (entitled "INTEGRITY OF GAME"), and it's posted in every NFL locker room:

Among the types of conduct detrimental to the NFL and professional football that call for serious penalties are the following: [...]

4. Associating with gamblers or with gambling activities in a manner tending to bring discredit to the NFL.

Any such conduct may result in severe penalties, up to and including a fine and/or suspension from the NFL for life.

Disagree, gambling is a major "red herring" in this whole case. Perhaps it will be a shield used by Godell to keep Vick out of the league longer because of his role in DOGFIGHTING and not GAMBLING.If Vick were a breeder who put show dogs into a Dog Show and bet fellow dog breeders 20 grand a contest that he had the prettier poodle and some investigative reporter shined the light on this type of betting, Vick would under center for game 1 this year receiving nothing more than a slap on the wrist and fine from Godell. Jordan and Barkley routinely bet much larger sums of money on the golf course and elsewhere --- common knowledge within the NBA. There is a world of differnence between a person-to-person bet on which poodle will win in the Dog Show and betting the "over" with Vinny the local bookie in the Panthers/Saints game. Vick was just betting on his dogs to win. A violation of policy? YES, but a far cry from betting on pro sports with bookies.

However, Vick was not betting casual sums of cash at the MSG dog show, rather he was betting casual sums of cash as to which pit bull would maim and kill the other pit bull with all sorts of ugly and sordid surrounding facts. Thus, it is the context that has fried Vick in the NFL and not the fact that he bet $20 grand on his dog to win.

 

[3C's]

You don't get suspended for life from the NFL for gambling. Guys have bet on NFL games in the past and the biggest penalty has been a year.

Link?Just curious...

Google Alex Karras and/or Paul Hornung and gambling.

 

[Pocket Joker]

He's just giving the Pro-Vick and people who are turning this into a race-thing more ammunition.

On a side note, ESPN reported his estranged father came out and said "Leave Vick alone, this is HIS thing. He used to stage dog fights in his garage, so get over it."

Nice!

 

[Truman]

You might notice that 1983 is missing. That is because Schlichter was suspended for the season by the NFL for gambling, the result of his betting on NFL games and other sporting events with bookies in Baltimore

"I broke the rules, I bet on NFL games," Schlichter said. "I never bet on a game I played in, but I bet on NFL games.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9961370Edge also admitted to betting on his alma mater.

If you were watching the Miami vs. Florida State game on ESPN this evening, you might have seen the sideline interview with former Miami star Edgerrin James. Oh, I'm sorry, "The U", not "Miami". Anyways, James was asked what he thought about the speculation that Miami has lost some power in the college football scene. Here is how Edge responded according to ProFootballTalk.com...

In response, James rambled for several seconds about the notion that all of the guys who come to Miami have a "three and out" mentality as they look toward the NFL. And then James said, and we quote, "I'm glad they're saying it because it's giving me a lot of bets right now. I'm making a lot of money tonight."

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2006/09/05/...on-national-tv/

 

[cstu]

ESPN is reporting that Vick will be pleading guilty to a charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.One would assume that this does not pin Vick legally on killing dogs, actively participating in or attending the actual dog fights, or anything gambling related.Given what else has come out, I wonder what this does to the NFL's position on what they are planning on doing (if that will change at all).

It's all about the gambling.Even if card games were Vick's hobby, he'd be in hot water with the NFL if he were illegally gambling tens of thousands of dollars playing cards. This is part of Paragraph 15 of the standard NFL player contract (entitled "INTEGRITY OF GAME"), and it's posted in every NFL locker room: Among the types of conduct detrimental to the NFL and professional football that call for serious penalties are the following: [...] 4. Associating with gamblers or with gambling activities in a manner tending to bring discredit to the NFL. Any such conduct may result in severe penalties, up to and including a fine and/or suspension from the NFL for life.

They could suspend him, but then they'd have to prove his gambling and without a conviction in the plea bargain it's unlikely.

Are you ####### nuts?The other defendants have come out and said that there was heavy money involved.He associates with them. What part don't you get?

Proof? The NFL would have a huge lawsuit on their hands if they tried to ban for *unproven in a court of law* gambling allegations.

 

[3C's]

He's just giving the Pro-Vick and people who are turning this into a race-thing more ammunition.

On a side note, ESPN reported his estranged father came out and said "Leave Vick alone, this is HIS thing. He used to stage dog fights in his garage, so get over it."

Nice!

Is that your interpretation of what Boddie said? Because that's not what he said.Interesting thing Boddie did say: He said he plans to write a book about more of what he knows.

 

[piston pete griffin]

I'd take this report with a grain of salt. It started out on ESPN the same network that reported that a Vick indictment would not happen. I doesn't make much sense for the defense attorney's to be dictating the terms of the plea agreement when they have all this evidence against him.

 

[BigJim®]

I'd take this report with a grain of salt. It started out on ESPN the same network that reported that a Vick indictment would not happen. I doesn't make much sense for the defense attorney's to be dictating the terms of the plea agreement when they have all this evidence against him.

Totally agree. Lester Munson's new ESPN report is skeptical of this prior ESPN report, calling it nothing but 'wishful thinking from Michael Vick's lawyers' and suggests the plea may be in jeopardy if Vick tries to dictate his plea terms. Munson is right that it makes zero sense to give Mike Vick a better plea than the cohorts who flipped before him; that would be bad practice. It's just another example of ESPN paying one writer to carry water for Vick while paying others to report on that report. Don't look for any real news from ESPN... that they seemingly allow spoonfed wishful thinking to become a headline news report is just another example of why.

 

[Angus82]

ESPN is reporting that Vick will be pleading guilty to a charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.One would assume that this does not pin Vick legally on killing dogs, actively participating in or attending the actual dog fights, or anything gambling related.Given what else has come out, I wonder what this does to the NFL's position on what they are planning on doing (if that will change at all).

It's all about the gambling.Even if card games were Vick's hobby, he'd be in hot water with the NFL if he were illegally gambling tens of thousands of dollars playing cards. This is part of Paragraph 15 of the standard NFL player contract (entitled "INTEGRITY OF GAME"), and it's posted in every NFL locker room: Among the types of conduct detrimental to the NFL and professional football that call for serious penalties are the following: [...] 4. Associating with gamblers or with gambling activities in a manner tending to bring discredit to the NFL. Any such conduct may result in severe penalties, up to and including a fine and/or suspension from the NFL for life.

They could suspend him, but then they'd have to prove his gambling and without a conviction in the plea bargain it's unlikely.

Are you ####### nuts?The other defendants have come out and said that there was heavy money involved.He associates with them. What part don't you get?

Proof? The NFL would have a huge lawsuit on their hands if they tried to ban for *unproven in a court of law* gambling allegations.

When did MLB get sued for banning Pete Rose? He went to jail for tax evasion and not gambling. After an internal investigation, Bart Giamatti felt that Rose compromised the integrity of the game and banned him. I do not see why the NFL Commish would have to follow different rules.

 

[BigJim®]

Proof? The NFL would have a huge lawsuit on their hands if they tried to ban for *unproven in a court of law* gambling allegations.

Foundation for this statement please?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

so seriously what is the big deal here now?

this is a plea deal. WHen you are charged with 5 crimes, if you plea, part of the plea deal usually includes dropping some charges, nothing to see here move along.

 

[dirtywaters20]

so seriously what is the big deal here now?this is a plea deal. WHen you are charged with 5 crimes, if you plea, part of the plea deal usually includes dropping some charges, nothing to see here move along.

The big deal would be allowing someone with so little leverage to dictate terms.

 

[redman]

There's a ton more to this story, but as the quote displays, it's impossible to discuss rationally anymore find anyone else with my point of view so I'll paint them all as irrational people with inferior intellects to mine.

I'm helping with your editing here.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

so seriously what is the big deal here now?this is a plea deal. WHen you are charged with 5 crimes, if you plea, part of the plea deal usually includes dropping some charges, nothing to see here move along.

The big deal would be allowing someone with so little leverage to dictate terms.

not sure they are dictating. No one wants a trial, that costs you and I money, especially in federal court. Dropping some charges to get a plea done is how it works

 

[BigJim®]

so seriously what is the big deal here now?this is a plea deal. WHen you are charged with 5 crimes, if you plea, part of the plea deal usually includes dropping some charges, nothing to see here move along.

You're completely mistaken. The 'deal' for Mike's cohorts was they accept guilt for all of the prior underlying conspiracy charges under threat of the actual crimes themselves being charged, risking far more jail time. In fact they were forced to admit guilt that went beyond 'conspiracy' by admitting the criminal acts themselves [that they were part of an enterprise almost fully funded by Mr. Vick and had killed dogs with Vick]. Note the distinction between the actual pleas and merely admitting to "conspiring to take part in an enterprise" or "conspiring to kill dogs." If you think it would be common practice for the 4th plea out to get half the charges completely brushed under the rug, think again. Furthermore, PFT has written that if the ESPN report was true, Vick could at most get 12 months since he would only face the max for the underlying dog fighting charge, which was a misdemeanor maximum punishable with 1 year jail. That would not make any sense if the Fed struck a deal under which they were reportedly recommending a sentence between 18-36 months. According to PFT:

We disagree with one thing that Munson said, however. If Vick pleads guilty only to conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting, the maximum sentence no longer will be five years. Instead, the maximum sentence will be the same as the maximum sentence for the underlying offense of interstate dog fighting. Since dog fighting was not yet a felony at the federal level when Vick's Surry County, Virginia property was raided, the maximum sentence for conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting could be only one year.

That's the big deal.

 

[3C's]

so seriously what is the big deal here now?this is a plea deal. WHen you are charged with 5 crimes, if you plea, part of the plea deal usually includes dropping some charges, nothing to see here move along.

The big deal would be allowing someone with so little leverage to dictate terms.

No one wants a trial

I do. I want to hear everything they have on these guys (we've certainly only heard a small amount) and I want him to be tried for all the crimes he's alleged to have committed.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

If Michael Vick's mother is a Boddie and now Michael Vick's father is a Boddie...how is Michael Vick Michael Vick. Is there a woodchuck in there or something?

Michael Vick is actually Ron Mexico.

 

[dirtywaters20]

so seriously what is the big deal here now?this is a plea deal. WHen you are charged with 5 crimes, if you plea, part of the plea deal usually includes dropping some charges, nothing to see here move along.

The big deal would be allowing someone with so little leverage to dictate terms.

No one wants a trial

I do. I want to hear everything they have on these guys (we've certainly only heard a small amount) and I want him to be tried for all the crimes he's alleged to have committed.

Ditto. Although technically it is a plea, in reality it was a surrender when faced with far more disastrous prospects. They have enough resources invested in this already to start playing the public taxes card now.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

so seriously what is the big deal here now?this is a plea deal. WHen you are charged with 5 crimes, if you plea, part of the plea deal usually includes dropping some charges, nothing to see here move along.

The big deal would be allowing someone with so little leverage to dictate terms.

No one wants a trial

I do. I want to hear everything they have on these guys (we've certainly only heard a small amount) and I want him to be tried for all the crimes he's alleged to have committed.

Ditto. Although technically it is a plea, in reality it was a surrender when faced with far more disastrous prospects. They have enough resources invested in this already to start playing the public taxes card now.

there wont be a trial, hate to disappoint.And Vick is going to get off light, no shocker there, people with money to hire good lawyers always get off light.

 

[BigJim®]

Another excellent point raised by PFT is it's very, very curious that ESPN would not attribute this report to any specific espn reporter. And now ESPN has 2 of its own staff legal analysts (Munson and Cossack) calling the report highly suspect? Get your $@%#* act together ESPN. You are blatantly allowing your news station to be used for propoganda, and you are obviously aware of this when you don't put a person's reputation on the line for a news report you break.

 

[trader jake]

on this report

Vick's statement would go against the ones already pleaded by the other men in this case. The courts won't allow the statements to "disagree" with each other. Nor would the judge accept that situation (especially with the attention that is being directed at the case).

 

[mad sweeney]

I'd take this report with a grain of salt. It started out on ESPN the same network that reported that a Vick indictment would not happen. I doesn't make much sense for the defense attorney's to be dictating the terms of the plea agreement when they have all this evidence against him.

It's a consporacy charge. That means that all defendants are all equally guilty of all the aspects of the crime. Even if, a big if, Vick manages to sell the DA that he nver gambled on the dog fights (yeah right) and was present but did not participate in the killing (only ordered it as leader of the group) two things: 1-he's still just as culpable legally for the actions of the others because it's a conspiracy charge. and 2-the judge isn't going to buy any of it. With over 7 witnesses do you think the judge is going to believe Vick bankrolled this whole operation and then never once bet on a fight when that's the main reason for dogfighting?If this report is true, and I seriously doubt that it is, it's nothing but an attempt to limit the actions of the NFL and state prosecutors with some technicalities. It won't affect his sentencing, and in fact could make it harsher since he would very obviously not be "taking full responsibility for his actions". Except for about 3 people on this board and a few over zealous NAACP types who won't believe Vick did anthing wrong because of the color of his skin, no one is going to believe Vick had nothing o do with gambling or killing the dogs and his rep will be just as tarnished. With all the heat the Feds have against him, I seriously doubt they are going to let him blatantly lie in his statement of facts to salvage some face in the public/state court/NFL's eyes. And of course, Goodell could still come down on him for gambling since 3 of 4 participants admitted to it and the NFL has done their own investigation and are not bound by the court's outcome. We'll see Monday, but it seems to me that if this were true that it would actually piss off the 2 people responsible for Vick's future (judge and Goodell) and increase his punishment. Not to mention that it's very unlikely that his side would be dictating terms based on all the evidence they have against him.Until Monday this is a non-story. Pure speculation by ESPN, the same outlet that reports terms of the deal were not announced and will not be made public and then 2 seconds later reports 10-12 months as if it's a known fact. Stick to highlights ESPN, your reporting sucks.

 

[dirtywaters20]

so seriously what is the big deal here now?this is a plea deal. WHen you are charged with 5 crimes, if you plea, part of the plea deal usually includes dropping some charges, nothing to see here move along.

The big deal would be allowing someone with so little leverage to dictate terms.

No one wants a trial

I do. I want to hear everything they have on these guys (we've certainly only heard a small amount) and I want him to be tried for all the crimes he's alleged to have committed.

Ditto. Although technically it is a plea, in reality it was a surrender when faced with far more disastrous prospects. They have enough resources invested in this already to start playing the public taxes card now.

there wont be a trial, hate to disappoint.And Vick is going to get off light, no shocker there, people with money to hire good lawyers always get off light.

Yeah like Bernie Ebbers. He made out golden with the Feds. Good point.

 

[tietzjd]

being a stupid POS who is an average throwing QB at best?

Ugh... Joe can't keep the tools in the shed tonight.I posted in another thread a couple days ago that Vick claims no knowledge of the tortured dogs, and I tend to believe him here. AND more importantly the Feds are accepting this, so keep your pants on. Vick will never shake the false label (dog torturing murderer), but that's fair punishment to me. The incredibly inflammable wording was used for media leverage (and boy did it work) but probably was not something that could have ever stuck to Vick (nor do I believe for one second was part of his criminal conduct). Peta bs doesn't sway me. I've been to court examining similar issues before. I know the Peta MO and it was all over this one from the start. Vick did not have losing dogs brutally tortured and killed for costing him money. It doesn't work that way. He did have some inhumane, sick nutcases on the yard killing dogs with complete incompetency, and there's no excuse for that. There's a ton more to this story, but as the quote displays, it's impossible to discuss rationally anymore.

My Understanding is that killing dogs is not a federal crime, and he was never charged in federal court with that crime. The evidence was entered in to tie him to the dog-fighting ring, showing his participation at every level with the endevor. There are no killing dog charges in the Federal case.Killing dogs is a State crime, and if he admitted doing that in the federal case, the state could use that as evidence against him. By keeping it out of the federal statement he is signing, and by pleading guilty, he is forcing the State of Virgina to prove in Court that he killed the dogs to make those potential charges stick.