Vick plea does not include killing dogs or gambling (1 Viewer)

[BigJim®]

It won't affect his sentencing, and in fact could make it harsher since he would very obviously not be "taking full responsibility for his actions".

I don't think this is accurate. As mentioned, *if* the report is true and Mike Vick is being allowed to plea only to interstate commerce concerning dog fighting, the maximum penalty he would face is the federal max for the underlying dogfighting crime, which was not a 5 year max/felony until after the Vick situation unfolded. It was a 1 year max/misdemeanor. So in effect it would restrict the judge from imposing any sentence beyond that maximum because generally speaking it is not possible to apply new laws retroactively. Again, not that I believe the news report, just that it would be significant, if true. As has been mentioned by ESPN legal analysts, its perhaps more likely that the judge would not accept the plea deal at all if it is inconsistent with other pleas. Accepting the plea deal yet imposing a penalty which exceeds the federal max is not an option, I don't think.

 

[mad sweeney]

It won't affect his sentencing, and in fact could make it harsher since he would very obviously not be "taking full responsibility for his actions".

I don't think this is accurate. As mentioned, *if* the report is true and Mike Vick is being allowed to plea only to interstate commerce concerning dog fighting, the maximum penalty he would face is the federal max for the underlying dogfighting crime, which was not a 5 year max/felony until after the Vick situation unfolded. It was a 1 year max/misdemeanor. So in effect it would restrict the judge from imposing any sentence beyond that maximum because generally speaking it is not possible to apply new laws retroactively. Again, not that I believe the news report, just that it would be significant, if true. As has been mentioned by ESPN legal analysts, its perhaps more likely that the judge would not accept the plea deal at all if it is inconsistent with other pleas. Accepting the plea deal yet imposing a penalty which exceeds the federal max is not an option, I don't think.

Killing dogs and gambling on dogs have never been a part of the charge. He's pleading to the only thing he's so far been charged with, the same as the others, which carries up to 5 years. Not admitting to the gambling (which he hasn't been charged with) or killing dogs (which eh hasn't been charged with) is simply a technical move, if true. But I agree with you, the DA or the judge won't be taking a plea deal from one guy that contradicts the plea from 3 others in the case.

 

[simey]

he filed his plea today and he did admit to killing dogs including means by hanging and drowning.

cnn news

(CNN) -- NFL star Michael Vick has admitted that he and his co-defendants killed dogs that did not fight well in papers filed on Friday with a federal court in Virginia.

NFL star Michael Vick is set to appear in court Monday. A judge will have the final say on a plea deal.

In a plea agreement, Vick said he would plead guilty to one count of "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture."

The charge is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Federal prosecutors agreed to ask for the low end of the sentencing guidelines.

In an additional statement of facts, signed by Vick and filed with the agreement, Vick admitted buying the property that was used for dogfighting but said he did not bet on the fights or receive any of the money won.

"Most of the 'Bad Newz Kennels'' operations and gambling monies were provided by Vick," the official summary of facts stated. Gambling wins were generally split between co-conspirators Tony Taylor, Quanis Phillips and sometimes Purnell Peace, it continued.

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds from the purses that were won by 'Bad Newz Kennels.'"

Vick also agreed that "collective efforts" by him and two others caused the deaths of at least six dogs.

In about April of this year, Vick, Peace and Phillips tested some dogs in fighting sessions at Vick's property in Virginia, the statement said. "Peace, Phillips and Vick agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick," the summary said.

Three co-defendants -- Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, Virginia; Phillips, 28, of Atlanta; and Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Virginia -- have already accepted agreements to plead guilty in exchange for reduced sentences.

Vick, 27, is scheduled to appear in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, on Monday, where he is expected to plead guilty before a judge. See a timeline of the case against Vick »

The judge in the case will have the final say over the plea agreement.

If the judge accepts the deal, it means Vick will avoid more serious charges that might have been considered by a grand jury.

After Vick's indictment last month, National Football League Commissioner Roger Goodell ordered the quarterback not to report to the Falcons training camp, and the league is reviewing the case

 

[mad sweeney]

Seems like that report was untrue. link

RICHMOND, Va. - Michael Vick filed a plea agreement in federal court Friday admitting to a dogfighting charge and agreed the enterprise included killing fighting dogs and gambling.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Seems like that report was untrue. link

RICHMOND, Va. - Michael Vick filed a plea agreement in federal court Friday admitting to a dogfighting charge and agreed the enterprise included killing fighting dogs and gambling.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court.

Looks like OP was incorrect. Rotoworld will be e-mailing him for a job.

 

[mad sweeney]

he filed his plea today and he did admit to killing dogs including means by hanging and drowning.

cnn news

(CNN) -- NFL star Michael Vick has admitted that he and his co-defendants killed dogs that did not fight well in papers filed on Friday with a federal court in Virginia.

NFL star Michael Vick is set to appear in court Monday. A judge will have the final say on a plea deal.

In a plea agreement, Vick said he would plead guilty to one count of "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture."

The charge is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Federal prosecutors agreed to ask for the low end of the sentencing guidelines.

In an additional statement of facts, signed by Vick and filed with the agreement, Vick admitted buying the property that was used for dogfighting but said he did not bet on the fights or receive any of the money won.

"Most of the 'Bad Newz Kennels'' operations and gambling monies were provided by Vick," the official summary of facts stated. Gambling wins were generally split between co-conspirators Tony Taylor, Quanis Phillips and sometimes Purnell Peace, it continued.

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds from the purses that were won by 'Bad Newz Kennels.'"

Vick also agreed that "collective efforts" by him and two others caused the deaths of at least six dogs.

In about April of this year, Vick, Peace and Phillips tested some dogs in fighting sessions at Vick's property in Virginia, the statement said. "Peace, Phillips and Vick agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick," the summary said.

Three co-defendants -- Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, Virginia; Phillips, 28, of Atlanta; and Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Virginia -- have already accepted agreements to plead guilty in exchange for reduced sentences.

Vick, 27, is scheduled to appear in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, on Monday, where he is expected to plead guilty before a judge. See a timeline of the case against Vick »

The judge in the case will have the final say over the plea agreement.

If the judge accepts the deal, it means Vick will avoid more serious charges that might have been considered by a grand jury.

After Vick's indictment last month, National Football League Commissioner Roger Goodell ordered the quarterback not to report to the Falcons training camp, and the league is reviewing the case

I do believe the judge will be calling BS on that. What, Vick put up all the moneys for it but never saw a dime back? He paid out when his dogs lost but didn't collect when they won? Bad idea, IMO, going to make the judge disregard the DA's low end sentencing guidelines. And putting up moneys, whether he prospered from it or not is still being involved in interstate gambling. Good luck Vick, you're gonna need it.

 

[BigJim®]

Killing dogs and gambling on dogs have never been a part of the charge. He's pleading to the only thing he's so far been charged with, the same as the others, which carries up to 5 years.

I'm heavily reliant on the reports I'm reading, but again I dont think you are getting the point I'm making. As I understand from reading the indictment, Mike Vick has been indicted on conspiring to violate the following U.S. Codes: (1) Using interstate commerce to further the commission of any unlawful act Title 18, §1952; the specific "violation of law" is the violation of Virginia laws prohibiting gambling and dog fighting. [violations to "distribute the proceeds of any such activity" carry a 5 year max sentence](2) Knowingly sponsoring and exhibiting an animal in an animal fighting venture, if any animal in the venture was moved in interstate or foreign commerce. [7 U.S.C. 2156(a)(1), which carries a maximum of 1 year](3) Knowingly selling, buying, transporting, delivering, or receiving for purposes of transportation, in interstate or foreign commerce, any dog or other animal for purposes of having the dog or other animal participate in an animal fighting venture. [7 U.S.C. 2156(b), which carries a maximum of 1 year]That said, I think you are off saying generally that 'gambling and killing dogs are not part of the charge.' Under the first indictment, "using commerce" to further the commission of *any unlawful activity* pulls that and really anything else in by implication. "Any law" would encompass any state laws, and the indictment clearly specifies and cites Virginia's animal cruelty laws regulating dogfighting [VCA 3.1-796.124] and gambling under the Virginia law [VCA 18.2-326, 18.2-328]. By pleading out to this, Vick is pulling in those laws, and the 5 year max.So, while none of the new information is confirmed from the "anonymous" ESPN report, the implication is that Mike Vick is pleading to counts 2-3, which carry only the 1 year max that was in effect when his case arose, and he would not plead guilty to indictment #1, which pulls in the 5 year max [if in fact he's not pleading to the use of interstate commerce for the commission of any law, including gambling or animal cruelty.

 

[mad sweeney]

Killing dogs and gambling on dogs have never been a part of the charge. He's pleading to the only thing he's so far been charged with, the same as the others, which carries up to 5 years.

I'm heavily reliant on the reports I'm reading, but again I dont think you are getting the point I'm making. As I understand from reading the indictment, Mike Vick has been indicted on conspiring to violate the following U.S. Codes: (1) Using interstate commerce to further the commission of any unlawful act Title 18, §1952; the specific "violation of law" is the violation of Virginia's law prohibiting dog fighting. [violations to "distribute the proceeds of any such activity carry a 5 year max sentence](2) Knowingly sponsoring and exhibiting an animal in an animal fighting venture, if any animal in the venture was moved in interstate or foreign commerce. [7 U.S.C. 2156(a)(1), which carries a maximum of 1 year](3) Knowingly selling, buying, transporting, delivering, or receiving for purposes of transportation, in interstate or foreign commerce, any dog or other animal for purposes of having the dog or other animal participate in an animal fighting venture. [7 U.S.C. 2156(b), which carries a maximum of 1 year]That said, I think you are off saying generally that 'gambling and killing dogs are not part of the charge.' Under the first indictment, "using commerce" to further the commission of *any unlawful activity* pulls that and really anything else in by implication. "Any law" would encompass any state laws, and the indictment clearly specifies and cites Virginia's animal cruelty laws regulating dogfighting [VCA 3.1-796.124] and gambling under the Virginia law [VCA 18.2-326, 18.2-328]. By pleading out to this, Vick is pulling in those laws, and the 5 year max.So, while none of the new information is confirmed from the "anonymous" ESPN report, the implication is that Mike Vick is pleading to counts 2-3, which carry only the 1 year max that was in effect when his case arose, and he would not plead guilty to indictment #1, which pulls in the 5 year max [if in fact he's not pleading to the use of interstate commerce for the commission of any law, including gambling or animal cruelty.

Please read the above article. It was one count that he was charged with, the killings and gambling were details not charges, and that one count he was charged with and plead guilty to carries up to a 5 year sentence. Had they filed gambling charges they would've been under the RICO laws and he would've faced up to 20 years.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

So tired of this, but here's a link to breaking news on NFL.com:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

Vick files plea in federal court, admits dogfighting

Associated Press

RICHMOND, Va. -- Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court. He signed the plea agreement Thursday.

"Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said.

The statement said when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds and were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants -- Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick."

According to court documents, Vick was aware that his co-defendants killed a number of dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions.

Last April, Vick and two co-defendants tested the fighting skills of dogs and the three agreed to kill six to eight dogs that did not perform well. All were killed by various methods that included hanging and drowning.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

 

[letter_j]

Roger Cosack was just on ESPN Radio...he's saying that, as part of the plea agreement, Vick has agreed to aid the U.S. government in their investigation against other illegal dogfighting rings and will testify in the event that other charges are laid.

He's also said that the government is recommending 12 to 18 months. However, with Vick showing "good faith" by cooperating with government officials, Cosack says that the proverbial door could open for the Judge to sentence Vick to less than 12 months and when you get less than 12 months, you can do your time via "house arrest".

Not saying that all of what Cosack is spewing is gospel, just saying

 

[BigJim®]

Please read the above article. It was one count that he was charged with, the killings and gambling were details not charges, and that one count he was charged with and plead guilty to carries up to a 5 year sentence.

Boy are you stubborn. I don;t need to read an article to understand an indictment. We're on the same side here guy, but this is straight from the indictment:THE GRAND JURY CHARGES THAT:

1. Beginning in or about early-2001 and continuing through on or about April 25,

2007, in the Eastern District of Virginia and elsewhere, defendants, PURNELL A. PEACE. also

known as "P-hunk" and "Funk," QUANIS L . PHILLIPS, also known as `Q ."TONY TAYLOR .

also known as "T," and MICHAEL VICK, also known as "Ookie, did knowingly and willingly

combine, conspire, confederate and agree with each other, and with persons known and unknown

to the Grand Jury to commit the following offenses against the United States, to wit:

a. traveling in interstate commerce and using the mail or any facility in

interstate commerce with intent to commit any crime of violence to further any unlawful activity

and to promote, manage, establish, carry on, and facilitate the promotion, management,

establishment, and carrying on of an unlawful activity, to wit : a business enterprise involving

gambling in violation of Virginia Code Annotated Sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2) . 18.2-326, and

18.2-328. and thereafter performing and attempting to perform acts to commit any crime of

violence to further any unlawful activity and to promote, manage, establish, and carry on, and to

facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of the unlawful activity, in

violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1952 ;

How are these specifics within the indicted charge "details" and not "charges"? They are specifically tied to the federal charge because, to be enforceable, the federal charge requires some violation of law. These Virginia violations are it. You can't say he'd be pleading to the first indictment without dovetailing it to a specific "unlawful activity." I mean, it appears as if all of this is a moot point if he's now acknowledged the dogfighting [i.e. the violation of Virgina law needed to support the first indictment] but the fact remains that had his plea not including acknowledging violation of state laws [gambling or dogfighting] there would be no substance for enforcing the 5 year sentence associated with the 1st indictment. He'd be acknowledging use of interstate commerce for what "unlawful cactivity"? Just unspoken "unlawful activity" generally you think would support that indicted charge? No. The court would be left with the other 2 indictments, which carry a 1 year max.

 

[2stix]

POSTED 1:48 p.m. EDT, August 24, 2007 from pft

VICK ADMITS EVERYTHING

We've reviewed in detail the plea agreement signed by Michael Vick on Thursday, along with the statement of facts.

Notwithstanding the anonymous source who told the anonymous reporter at ESPN that Vick would not admit to killing dogs or to gambling, Vick admits to everything.

In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.

In paragraph 2, Vick admits that the Surry County property to which he initially said he never goes was the main staging area for housing and training pit bulls for fighting.

In paragraph 3, Vick admits to being involved in dog fights at the Surry County property, and to participating in dog fights in other states.

In paragraph 4, Vick admits that the enterprise involved gambling activities in violation of Virginia law. Vick denies that he placed side bets on any fights, or that he received process from the purses. (However, he admits that he was the primary source of funds for the operation. If the winnings went only to his co-defendants, then that's less money Vick had to give them to get them to continue to tend to the operation while he was "at work" for the Atlanta Falcons.)

In paragraph 9, Vick admits that he began acquiring dogs for the operation in "2001-2002," and that the "Bad Newz Kennels" were established in 2002.

In paragraph 12, Vick admits that he knew the other defendants "killed a number of dogs" that did not perform well in testing sessions in 2002. Vick denies killing any dogs at that time.

In paragraph 32, Vick admits that in April 2007 -- the same month in which he say face-to-face with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and denied that dog fighting was occurring on his land -- he agreed with Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips to kill six-to-eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions. Here's the key passage:

"[A]ll of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. VICK agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK."

Case closed. He admits to gambling, and he admits to killing dogs.

Someone at ESPN has some serious explaining to do.

 

[mad sweeney]

Please read the above article. It was one count that he was charged with, the killings and gambling were details not charges, and that one count he was charged with and plead guilty to carries up to a 5 year sentence.

Boy are you stubborn [and wrong]. We're on the same side here guy, but this is straight from the indictment:THE GRAND JURY CHARGES THAT:

1. Beginning in or about early-2001 and continuing through on or about April 25,

2007, in the Eastern District of Virginia and elsewhere, defendants, PURNELL A. PEACE. also

known as "P-hunk" and "Funk," QUANIS L . PHILLIPS, also known as `Q ."TONY TAYLOR .

also known as "T," and MICHAEL VICK, also known as "Ookie, did knowingly and willingly

combine, conspire, confederate and agree with each other, and with persons known and unknown

to the Grand Jury to commit the following offenses against the United States, to wit:

a. traveling in interstate commerce and using the mail or any facility in

interstate commerce with intent to commit any crime of violence to further any unlawful activity

and to promote, manage, establish, carry on, and facilitate the promotion, management,

establishment, and carrying on of an unlawful activity, to wit : a business enterprise involving

gambling in violation of Virginia Code Annotated Sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2) . 18.2-326, and

18.2-328. and thereafter performing and attempting to perform acts to commit any crime of

violence to further any unlawful activity and to promote, manage, establish, and carry on, and to

facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of the unlawful activity, in

violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1952 ;

How are these specifics within the indicted charge "details" and not "charges"? They are specifically tied to the federal charge because the federal charge requires a violation of law, and these are it.

Vick said he would plead guilty to one count of "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture."

The charge is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

That's all he has ever been charged with. And that's what he plead guilty to. Nowhere were there separate offenses with only 1 year sentences. The gambling and dog killings were the "Unlawful Activities", but they had yet to file separate interstate gambling charges (RICO). So we're basically both right, I was talking about separate and more severe interstate gambling charges. But the above was the original indictment and only charge to be levied against him. It's semantic saying the gambling and dog killings were details. There was never any lesser charges to plea down to that would be only 1 year offenses.

 

[B-Deep]

POSTED 1:48 p.m. EDT, August 24, 2007 from pftVICK ADMITS EVERYTHINGWe've reviewed in detail the plea agreement signed by Michael Vick on Thursday, along with the statement of facts.Notwithstanding the anonymous source who told the anonymous reporter at ESPN that Vick would not admit to killing dogs or to gambling, Vick admits to everything.In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting. In paragraph 2, Vick admits that the Surry County property to which he initially said he never goes was the main staging area for housing and training pit bulls for fighting. In paragraph 3, Vick admits to being involved in dog fights at the Surry County property, and to participating in dog fights in other states.In paragraph 4, Vick admits that the enterprise involved gambling activities in violation of Virginia law. Vick denies that he placed side bets on any fights, or that he received process from the purses. (However, he admits that he was the primary source of funds for the operation. If the winnings went only to his co-defendants, then that's less money Vick had to give them to get them to continue to tend to the operation while he was "at work" for the Atlanta Falcons.)In paragraph 9, Vick admits that he began acquiring dogs for the operation in "2001-2002," and that the "Bad Newz Kennels" were established in 2002.In paragraph 12, Vick admits that he knew the other defendants "killed a number of dogs" that did not perform well in testing sessions in 2002. Vick denies killing any dogs at that time.In paragraph 32, Vick admits that in April 2007 -- the same month in which he say face-to-face with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and denied that dog fighting was occurring on his land -- he agreed with Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips to kill six-to-eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions. Here's the key passage:"[A]ll of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. VICK agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK."Case closed. He admits to gambling, and he admits to killing dogs. Someone at ESPN has some serious explaining to do.

now to be fair, ESPN had several people on saying the report was hard to believeand vick does explicitly say he never got any profits from gambling and made no side betsso it sounds like their source was just trying to sell them some spin, but they had their legal experts on to challenge it

 

[j3r3m3y]

Please read the above article. It was one count that he was charged with, the killings and gambling were details not charges, and that one count he was charged with and plead guilty to carries up to a 5 year sentence.

Boy are you stubborn [and wrong]. We're on the same side here guy, but this is straight from the indictment:THE GRAND JURY CHARGES THAT:

1. Beginning in or about early-2001 and continuing through on or about April 25,

2007, in the Eastern District of Virginia and elsewhere, defendants, PURNELL A. PEACE. also

known as "P-hunk" and "Funk," QUANIS L . PHILLIPS, also known as `Q ."TONY TAYLOR .

also known as "T," and MICHAEL VICK, also known as "Ookie, did knowingly and willingly

combine, conspire, confederate and agree with each other, and with persons known and unknown

to the Grand Jury to commit the following offenses against the United States, to wit:

a. traveling in interstate commerce and using the mail or any facility in

interstate commerce with intent to commit any crime of violence to further any unlawful activity

and to promote, manage, establish, carry on, and facilitate the promotion, management,

establishment, and carrying on of an unlawful activity, to wit : a business enterprise involving

gambling in violation of Virginia Code Annotated Sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2) . 18.2-326, and

18.2-328. and thereafter performing and attempting to perform acts to commit any crime of

violence to further any unlawful activity and to promote, manage, establish, and carry on, and to

facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of the unlawful activity, in

violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1952 ;

How are these specifics within the indicted charge "details" and not "charges"? They are specifically tied to the federal charge because the federal charge requires a violation of law, and these are it.

Vick said he would plead guilty to one count of "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture."

The charge is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

That's all he has ever been charged with. And that's what he plead guilty to. Nowhere were there separate offenses with only 1 year sentences. The gambling and dog killings were the "Unlawful Activities", but they had yet to file separate interstate gambling charges (RICO). So we're basically both right, I was talking about separate and more severe interstate gambling charges. But the above was the original indictment and only charge to be levied against him. It's semantic saying the gambling and dog killings were details. There was never any lesser charges to plea down to that would be only 1 year offenses.

The one year offenses, according to speculation, were to be added to an amended indictment based on the testimony of the boyz who rolled on Vick. Vick took this deal because they were going to add new charges.

 

[dickey moe]

So tired of this, but here's a link to breaking news on NFL.com:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

Vick files plea in federal court, admits dogfighting

Associated Press

RICHMOND, Va. -- Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court. He signed the plea agreement Thursday.

"Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said.

The statement said when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds and were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants -- Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick."

According to court documents, Vick was aware that his co-defendants killed a number of dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions.

Last April, Vick and two co-defendants tested the fighting skills of dogs and the three agreed to kill six to eight dogs that did not perform well. All were killed by various methods that included hanging and drowning.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

Even nfl.com can't get it right.Right now on their homepage:

"did not admit to killing dogs"

 

[mad sweeney]

Please read the above article. It was one count that he was charged with, the killings and gambling were details not charges, and that one count he was charged with and plead guilty to carries up to a 5 year sentence.

Boy are you stubborn [and wrong]. We're on the same side here guy, but this is straight from the indictment:THE GRAND JURY CHARGES THAT:

1. Beginning in or about early-2001 and continuing through on or about April 25,

2007, in the Eastern District of Virginia and elsewhere, defendants, PURNELL A. PEACE. also

known as "P-hunk" and "Funk," QUANIS L . PHILLIPS, also known as `Q ."TONY TAYLOR .

also known as "T," and MICHAEL VICK, also known as "Ookie, did knowingly and willingly

combine, conspire, confederate and agree with each other, and with persons known and unknown

to the Grand Jury to commit the following offenses against the United States, to wit:

a. traveling in interstate commerce and using the mail or any facility in

interstate commerce with intent to commit any crime of violence to further any unlawful activity

and to promote, manage, establish, carry on, and facilitate the promotion, management,

establishment, and carrying on of an unlawful activity, to wit : a business enterprise involving

gambling in violation of Virginia Code Annotated Sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2) . 18.2-326, and

18.2-328. and thereafter performing and attempting to perform acts to commit any crime of

violence to further any unlawful activity and to promote, manage, establish, and carry on, and to

facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of the unlawful activity, in

violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1952 ;

How are these specifics within the indicted charge "details" and not "charges"? They are specifically tied to the federal charge because the federal charge requires a violation of law, and these are it.

Vick said he would plead guilty to one count of "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture."

The charge is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

That's all he has ever been charged with. And that's what he plead guilty to. Nowhere were there separate offenses with only 1 year sentences. The gambling and dog killings were the "Unlawful Activities", but they had yet to file separate interstate gambling charges (RICO). So we're basically both right, I was talking about separate and more severe interstate gambling charges. But the above was the original indictment and only charge to be levied against him. It's semantic saying the gambling and dog killings were details. There was never any lesser charges to plea down to that would be only 1 year offenses.

The one year offenses, according to speculation, were to be added to an amended indictment based on the testimony of the boyz who rolled on Vick. Vick took this deal because they were going to add new charges.

We're sort of talking about a different point. Any 1 year crimes that were to be added pale in comparasin to the RICO charges they were prepared to add in the superseding indictment. 20 years is what he was avoiding with this deal.

 

[Christo]

Why would the feds accept such a plea?

Maybe because he was never charged with killing dogs just running a dog fighting enterprise?

 

[B-Deep]

So tired of this, but here's a link to breaking news on NFL.com:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true

Vick files plea in federal court, admits dogfighting

Associated Press

RICHMOND, Va. -- Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court. He signed the plea agreement Thursday.

"Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said.

The statement said when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds and were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants -- Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick."

According to court documents, Vick was aware that his co-defendants killed a number of dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions.

Last April, Vick and two co-defendants tested the fighting skills of dogs and the three agreed to kill six to eight dogs that did not perform well. All were killed by various methods that included hanging and drowning.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

Even nfl.com can't get it right.Right now on their homepage:

"did not admit to killing dogs"

i did not read the other "statement of facts"but it never says he personally killed dogs, it says the dogs were killed by the combined efforts of him and 2 others

to me that reads "he killed or helped kill some of those dogs" but it does not state exactly that, so i think people (like NFL.com) are misinterpreting that paragraph.

or maybe it was written like that to try and let him wiggle out later...

clearly i think this says he killed dogs, but it is kind of in legal mumbo jumbo

if he laters says "they asked for some rope and i gave it to them, but i killed nothing" does that gel with the statement of facts? Probably

 

[B-Deep]

Why would the feds accept such a plea?

Maybe because he was never charged with killing dogs just running a dog fighting enterprise?

and he may testify against othersand, he plead guilty. The judge can slam him with whatever sentence the judge wants. clearly this is a win for the feds

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Looks like less than a year.

Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

 

[mad sweeney]

Roger Cosack was just on ESPN Radio...he's saying that, as part of the plea agreement, Vick has agreed to aid the U.S. government in their investigation against other illegal dogfighting rings and will testify in the event that other charges are laid.He's also said that the government is recommending 12 to 18 months. However, with Vick showing "good faith" by cooperating with government officials, Cosack says that the proverbial door could open for the Judge to sentence Vick to less than 12 months and when you get less than 12 months, you can do your time via "house arrest".Not saying that all of what Cosack is spewing is gospel, just saying

There was sucha huge uproar about Paris Hilton getting house arrest for driving with a suspended license and DUI, I can't imagine that John Q Taxpayer will feel their tax dollars have been put to good use by confining Vick to his multi-million dollar mansion for a few months for Federal crimes. Maybe if he'd copped immediately, but how much money has been spent investigating this case from the time Vick plead not guilty to now? Up to now, almost every single report or speculation that's been positive for Vick has proven to not be the case so I sincerely doubt this will be.

 

[BigRed]

And the whole morbid circus continues

I can't believe people haven't asked Owens his thoughts on all this. I bet he's POed about not being in the spotlight

 

[B-Deep]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

he CLEARLY admitted to gamblinghe admits to setting up an illegal gambling business and to covering lossesthat's gambling, you don't have to collect winnings to be gambling

 

[2stix]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

oh jeez your still being vicks jockstrap, goodness sakes.He was the house money you tool, that is part of gambing.

 

[B-Deep]

Roger Cosack was just on ESPN Radio...he's saying that, as part of the plea agreement, Vick has agreed to aid the U.S. government in their investigation against other illegal dogfighting rings and will testify in the event that other charges are laid.He's also said that the government is recommending 12 to 18 months. However, with Vick showing "good faith" by cooperating with government officials, Cosack says that the proverbial door could open for the Judge to sentence Vick to less than 12 months and when you get less than 12 months, you can do your time via "house arrest".Not saying that all of what Cosack is spewing is gospel, just saying

Cossack also was saying that's about the best case scenario, if vick had some huge names that could topple national dog fighting rings, but he has no knowledge of what vick knows or does not knowhe also said the judge could sentance vick to more than what was recommended

 

[mad sweeney]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

1. With your track record, why are you even speculating?2. Aren't you supposed to be taking a year off?

 

[B-Deep]

someone should probably edit the topic of this thread...

 

[dickey moe]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

And you think that's a good thing?

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

he CLEARLY admitted to gamblinghe admits to setting up an illegal gambling business and to covering lossesthat's gambling, you don't have to collect winnings to be gambling

Gambling: To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.He had no chance to gain an advantage or benefit. NOT GAMBLING. Vick is innocent of the main charges that could have got him a decent sized suspension.Welcome back the to NFL Mr. Vick, can't wait too see you back on the field.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

1. With your track record, why are you even speculating?2. Aren't you supposed to be taking a year off?

He hasn't been convicted.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

1. With your track record, why are you even speculating?2. Aren't you supposed to be taking a year off?

He hasn't been convicted.

A guilty plea is a conviction.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

1. With your track record, why are you even speculating?2. Aren't you supposed to be taking a year off?

He hasn't been convicted.

A guilty plea is a conviction.

Show me a link to that please.

 

[2stix]

Looks like less than a year.

Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

1. With your track record, why are you even speculating?2. Aren't you supposed to be taking a year off?

No doubt

 

[mad sweeney]

Looks like less than a year.

Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

he CLEARLY admitted to gamblinghe admits to setting up an illegal gambling business and to covering losses

that's gambling, you don't have to collect winnings to be gambling

Gambling: To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.He had no chance to gain an advantage or benefit. NOT GAMBLING. Vick is innocent of the main charges that could have got him a decent sized suspension.

Welcome back the to NFL Mr. Vick, can't wait too see you back on the field.

In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.

You love Vick so much you don't even believe him when he implicates himself?

 

[B-Deep]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

he CLEARLY admitted to gamblinghe admits to setting up an illegal gambling business and to covering lossesthat's gambling, you don't have to collect winnings to be gambling

Gambling: To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.He had no chance to gain an advantage or benefit. NOT GAMBLING. Vick is innocent of the main charges that could have got him a decent sized suspension.Welcome back the to NFL Mr. Vick, can't wait too see you back on the field.

his business, bad newz kennelz, profitedand lets say you are right...extend this outcould brett farve run a huge illegal sports book in his basement, and as long as he gave the winnings to friends and relatives, he would be fine to stay in the NFL?you are clearly disillusionalhe explicitly admits to funding, setting up, and helping to run an illegal gambling venture

 

[B-Deep]

Looks like less than a year.

Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

he CLEARLY admitted to gamblinghe admits to setting up an illegal gambling business and to covering losses

that's gambling, you don't have to collect winnings to be gambling

Gambling: To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.He had no chance to gain an advantage or benefit. NOT GAMBLING. Vick is innocent of the main charges that could have got him a decent sized suspension.

Welcome back the to NFL Mr. Vick, can't wait too see you back on the field.

In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.

clear as dayI am wondering if the whole "i never got any of the winnings" is to somehow cover him from future tax charges. It clearly does not help him in the NFL case

 

[ILUVBEER99]

In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.

Meh, were arguing semantics which never gets anywhere.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

1. With your track record, why are you even speculating?2. Aren't you supposed to be taking a year off?

He hasn't been convicted.

A guilty plea is a conviction.

Show me a link to that please.

Are you really this dumb?

 

[B-Deep]

In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.

Meh, were arguing semantics which never gets anywhere.

dudeIT IS PARAGRAPH 1

that is what he is pleading to, running a gambling enterprise

that's gambling

the NFL can throw the book at him if they so desire

 

[j3r3m3y]

In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.

Meh, were arguing semantics which never gets anywhere.

Yes, you are this dumb.

 

[mad sweeney]

In paragraph 1, Vick pleads guilty to conspiracy to establish, maintain, etc. an interstate gambling enterprise and conspiracy to engage in interstate dog fighting.

Meh, were arguing semantics which never gets anywhere.

Semantics?! You're saying he wasn't involved in gambling?! He says he was. How does being wrong=semantics?

 

[B-Deep]

:ignore ILUVBEER99:

 

[j3r3m3y]

:ignore ILUVBEER99:

 

[B-Deep]

paragraph 32 is the part that i find interesting. It clearly says the dogs were killed by the combined efforts of vick, peace, and phillips. Is it automatic that this means he physically killed any dogs?

As I understand it this statement of facts can be used against him if the state pursues any charges, as it is swron testimony by Vick himself. Is there any way he can wiggle out of state charges after that paragraph?

 

[freshly_shorn]

Vick will not be back in the NFL. Too much baggage. Not even Al Davis will touch him.

 

[freshly_shorn]

paragraph 32 is the part that i find interesting. It clearly says the dogs were killed by the combined efforts of vick, peace, and phillips. Is it automatic that this means he physically killed any dogs? As I understand it this statement of facts can be used against him if the state pursues any charges, as it is swron testimony by Vick himself. Is there any way he can wiggle out of state charges after that paragraph?

Good lawyers can. CNN.com said it is rare for states to follow Federal indictments with their own- but if they think he's getting off too lightly, they may well go after him, and his plea deal can be used as evidence. He'll probably be able to cop a plea with them, too- pad the state coffers a little in a settlement. I doubt they'd want the hassle of trying him.

 

[JP]

Another excellent point raised by PFT is it's very, very curious that ESPN would not attribute this report to any specific espn reporter. And now ESPN has 2 of its own staff legal analysts (Munson and Cossack) calling the report highly suspect? Get your $@%#* act together ESPN. You are blatantly allowing your news station to be used for propoganda, and you are obviously aware of this when you don't put a person's reputation on the line for a news report you break.

Coming up with all of these "scoops" is great for ratings (in the short-term) though, isn't it.... Of course, big tv networks don't really care about ratings all that much though....

 

[JP]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

1. With your track record, why are you even speculating?2. Aren't you supposed to be taking a year off?

He hasn't been convicted.

A guilty plea is a conviction.

Show me a link to that please.

He's fishing. There is no way anybody could be that stupid....

 

[Christo]

Looks like less than a year. Without having to admit to the gambling he'll be back in the NFL by 09' at the latest.

1. With your track record, why are you even speculating?2. Aren't you supposed to be taking a year off?

He hasn't been convicted.

A guilty plea is a conviction.

Show me a link to that please.