What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Vinateiri WARMED the ball? (1 Viewer)

Weapon of Mass Instruction

Watch my feet!
No hard facts or confirmation yet, BUT...We just had a blurb story on local TV that said a story is developing that Vinateiri (with help, evidently, from sideline workers) actually warmed the k-ball with a heater -- and several Patriots surrounding him -- before the 46 yarder that made it by 2 feet.I do not know if there is ANY truth to this, but they said they had video or pictures.I'll pass on anything else I hear.I'm not saying it happened, I'm saying I saw a report that said this.

 
2, 3 maybe 4 years ago the nfl decided to have it where kickers/punters, everyone alike could not do anything w/ a football before a kick. they couldn't massage the ball, warm it, wet it, squeeze it, squeeze it, and all the weird things that kickers would do to the ball so basically you kick w/ a new ball each time believe it or not.some say the theory behind this was so kickoffs wouldn't be so long, thus there would be more kickoffs and punts returned for long yards. has it worked? i have no stats to say rather it have or not as kickers are still making 50+ field goals.

 
Like bringing out the snowplow, right? Pats fans know what I'm talking baout.The quesion is this - the KBall is special, right, supposed to be with all the other balls, but special - why isn't it "guarded" by an impartial sideline crew?I suppose if the ball is laid out, and then a TO is called ti "ice" the kicker, he might get a shot at "de-icing" the ball.

 
This may bring on the advent of the steel cage in the NFL. I can see it now: The head coach throws a tie-dyed flag onto the field, signifying to the officiating crew a request for a field goal ball. The referree then enters a steel cage that houses 12 numbered footballs and a keno machine. The machine spits out a number between 1 and 12 and that ball is brought directly onto the playing field and placed in play by the official, only after he has locked the cage up again to prevent illegal football massage. Just imagine the excitement and pagentry . . .

 
Vinateri suspended, but in addition, the Patriots are forced to use Richard Seymour for all kicking duties.
NE is forced to use Darrell Stingley on punt returns. Sorry, I shouldn't have said that. :thumbdown: :bag:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
But which was worse, heating the ball or clearing a spot for a field goal with a snowplow? I think we should have a debate between Dolphins fans and Titans fans.

 
The quesion is this - the KBall is special, right, supposed to be with all the other balls, but special - why isn't it "guarded" by an impartial sideline crew?
it is "guarded" there is a ball boy on the side-line with a big "K" on his orange vest. he's the only one allowed to hold the K ball. the official gets the ball directly from this guy (or girl)
 
The quesion is this - the KBall is special, right, supposed to be with all the other balls, but special - why isn't it "guarded" by an impartial sideline crew?
The K balls are segregated from the other balls during a game. There is a guy on the sideline with a big orange K on his shirt. He's responsible for the K balls. Whenever there is going to be a kick, they go to him to get the ball.
 
Yeah, the local NBC affiliate (WSMV Channel 4) is claiming they have obtained a home video showing AV and other Pats players involved with warming the ball that was used to kick the 46 yd FG.They broke this story on last nights sport segment of the 6pm newscast. I did not see it and there is nothing on their website yet. I'll keep in tune today to see if this goes anywhere.In any event, if this indeed proves to be true, the best I can hope for (as a Titan fan) would be for the NFL to disqualify the Pats and make last minute schedule changes to have the Titans suit up and go play Indy in the RCA Dome. Uhhh....I don't think that's gonna happen.Realistically, AV could see a fine and/or suspension or the Pats could see a fine issued to the organization as a whole.More to come....if there is more.

 
How did he get his hands on the ball?How can we be sure it's the same ball and not a practice ball.You guys are starting to sound like disgruntalled Raiders fans from 2 years ago. :thumbdown: Game is over, no going back.

 
How did he get his hands on the ball?How can we be sure it's the same ball and not a practice ball.You guys are starting to sound like disgruntalled Raiders fans from 2 years ago. :thumbdown: Game is over, no going back.
No sour grapes here.Just forwarding what has apparently been reported. Have not seen or heard anything else on this yet and have not seen this so-called "video".Not expecting anything more than maybe a fine or two "IF" this proves to be true. (Emphasis on "IF")As of right now, the Pats won fair & square in my opinion.
 
I thought the advent of the "K" ball was because kickers were doctoring the balls, which caused problems if those balls got mixed in with the normal ones used for the game...Originally they wanted a non-doctoring rule, but they comprimised and settled on seperate balls so the kickers could mess theirs up without screwing up a ball that was used for the game. Maybe I'm just imagining that though.I rememver an SI article (i think) that talked about some of the things that kickers did to balls. Apparently a rounder ball will fly further and straighter, so kickers would squash the pointed ends of the balls in to try and make it rounder. Some kickers were so good at it that (the author said) the balls became so misshapen that they were hardly recognizable as a football.

 
How did he get his hands on the ball?How can we be sure it's the same ball and not a practice ball.You guys are starting to sound like disgruntalled Raiders fans from 2 years ago. :thumbdown: Game is over, no going back.
Ok, it is 0 degrees.You are warming up to kick a 46 yard field goal.The field goal is to be kicked with a 0 degree K ball.So...you practice that with a hot, soft football?By the way, the refs had on gloves, so they wouldn't have noticed.I am not saying this actually happened, I'm just saying that -- circumstantially -- it makes you suspicious. The video also shows several Pats hovered around so that it couldn't be seen. Why would you do that with a practice ball?
 
My bet is the players were huddling around a heater to (OH MY GOD!!!!):Keep warm.Maybe they had a football there. Maybe they didn't.Do you honestly think that the Patriots were somehow able to get a hold of a K ball, warm it up, give it back to the K ball holder, make SURE that this same ball was given to the officials for the kick.I HIGHLY doubt it.

 
How did he get his hands on the ball?How can we be sure it's the same ball and not a practice ball.You guys are starting to sound like disgruntalled Raiders fans from 2 years ago. :thumbdown: Game is over, no going back.
Ok, it is 0 degrees.You are warming up to kick a 46 yard field goal.The field goal is to be kicked with a 0 degree K ball.So...you practice that with a hot, soft football?By the way, the refs had on gloves, so they wouldn't have noticed.I am not saying this actually happened, I'm just saying that -- circumstantially -- it makes you suspicious. The video also shows several Pats hovered around so that it couldn't be seen. Why would you do that with a practice ball?
Would he risk hurting his foot by practicing with a cold ball?If it truly was warm, it would surely cool down in seconds(hell my steaktips were steakcicles within minuetsat 5:00) and itwould have been letting off steam untill it did cool down(even those refs would have seen that).Just another conspiracy theory.
 
Be careful Titans fans here. This is dangerously close to whining normally reserved for Pats fans... ;) (and before anyone gets their underwear (more) bunched, I'm not saying any of you Titans guys are whining. Just be careful... ;) )J

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Actually Joe, I'll be called a "whiner" and like it. Like Zack Piller, I think the better team LOST Saturday night and I'm pissed/sick/angry/humorless about it. Actually, I spent so much time going back-and-forth with Pats fans last week that I was basically convinced (as most of them seemed to be) that the weather and Bill Belicheck's schemes and the team's extra week of preperation and good health would steamroll the "overmatched" Titans. To lose on a field goal by a doctored ball that barely made it over the cross-bar, and then to have that loss sealed on the call of a hold on Benji Olsen that doesn't appear to be a hold to anyone with any sense is SICKENING. Best I can tell, the Pats in all their glory should have won by 20 points. Instead, they eeked out another close victory.....but don't be fooled, as any Pats fan will tell you, they'd PREFER that the games be close.HERD

 
I wish that Herd were a member of the Colts.The Pats would have enough bulletin board material to wallpaper the entire locker room. :D

 
Just another example of home field advantage (and why it's associated with 3 points to boot).I think the likely explanation for this is putting a bag of kicking balls directly in front of the space heaters for the Pats, and leaving the kicking balls for the Titans out in the cold. I'm sure that happens on a regular basis. It's like the Red Sox adjusting the height of the infield grass based on the range of their infielders, the Rockies storing baseballs in humidors to limit the carry of a baseball, or the Twins turning on the A/C only when they are at bat to have the ball carry more.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I wish that Herd were a member of the Colts.The Pats would have enough bulletin board material to wallpaper the entire locker room.
I wish I were a member of the Colts too. I could serve two purposes:1. The Guy that won't shut up and keeps talking smack in the papers, much to the dismay of his teammates.2. The guy that comes off the bench like Rudy and gets a sack at the end of the game, much to the delight of fans across the nation!HERD
 
2. The guy that comes off the bench like Rudy and gets a sack at the end of the game, much to the delight of fans across the nation!
To clinch a 10 point loss.What else would you expect from a fat Hobbit? :P
 
Actually Joe, I'll be called a "whiner" and like it. Like Zack Piller, I think the better team LOST Saturday night and I'm pissed/sick/angry/humorless about it. Actually, I spent so much time going back-and-forth with Pats fans last week that I was basically convinced (as most of them seemed to be) that the weather and Bill Belicheck's schemes and the team's extra week of preperation and good health would steamroll the "overmatched" Titans. To lose on a field goal by a doctored ball that barely made it over the cross-bar, and then to have that loss sealed on the call of a hold on Benji Olsen that doesn't appear to be a hold to anyone with any sense is SICKENING. Best I can tell, the Pats in all their glory should have won by 20 points. Instead, they eeked out another close victory.....but don't be fooled, as any Pats fan will tell you, they'd PREFER that the games be close.HERD
The Pats beat the Titans twice. There is no doubt who the better team is. Thats why the play the games. Cry alll you want Herd but the Pats are better team. The Patriots are better coached and are a more disciplined team than the Titans. Its not the Patriots fault that the titans shoot themselevs in the foot with the game on the line, not once, but twice. Your like Nancy Kerrigan Herd. The better TEAM won twice. So cry all you want and make excuses to make yourself feel better. I know I'll be feeling good watching the best team in the NFL play the Colts this weekend.The Colts are on a roll and it should come right down to the wire this weekend. If the Patriots do lose it won't be because of stupid mistakes with the game on the line. "doctored ball".... :lol:
 
I think there is a legitimate grip here. Viniteri doctoring the ball would be equivalent to a wide receiver putting stick'em on his hands prior to making a hail mary catch for the winning touchdown as time expires.I don't think you could go back in time and reverse any of the outcomes, but I think a playoff suspension would be acceptable.I am not sure the Titans should be screaming foul as much as the Colts, it could have made the difference between playing on the road or at home for a trip to the Superbowl.The BlueOnion

 
As far as I knew all the 'K' balls are kept in a heater until they are called for by the referees. Way back a Jets kicker(Nick Lowery) slapped a ball boy at a NE game because he didn't keep the Jets balls in the heater before the kicks. Unless something has changed they still keep the balls warmed.

 
As far as I knew all the 'K' balls are kept in a heater until they are called for by the referees. Way back a Jets kicker(Nick Lowery) slapped a ball boy at a NE game because he didn't keep the Jets balls in the heater before the kicks. Unless something has changed they still keep the balls warmed.
something has changed. They are no longer allowed to warm the balls or doctor them in any other way.
 
As far as I knew all the 'K' balls are kept in a heater until they are called for by the referees. Way back a Jets kicker(Nick Lowery) slapped a ball boy at a NE game because he didn't keep the Jets balls in the heater before the kicks. Unless something has changed they still keep the balls warmed.
Something has changed since the days of Nick Lowery, namely the K-ball thing.
 
If the Colts make a mild inquisition of the issue, I am sure the league will look into it. If they do, all they need to do is watch the replay (if it exists) in rewind to see where the football came from:From the center pre snap...Ball going up to the ref's hands...And back to see who the ref got the ball from...If it came from a ball boy\girl, continue to rewind to see where the ball boy\girl got the ball...How interesting would the AFC Championship game be if Viniteri was suspended?The BlueOnion

 
How interesting would the AFC Championship game be if Viniteri was suspended?
It would be highly unlikely anyone would ever be suspended for a playoff game. If a suspension were to be handed down, it would be administered at the start of the regular season.Again, they have to prove it, and they have to pin it on Vinateiri. If both those were to happen (which may in itself be unlikely), I do not see a precedent for the NFL to do anything. How many other kickers have ever been suspended on this?If the Pats did something wrong, it needed to be addressed at the time, not after the fact.Bottom line, Titans lost, Pats won, it's over, move on.
 
If the Colts make a mild inquisition of the issue, I am sure the league will look into it. If they do, all they need to do is watch the replay (if it exists) in rewind to see where the football came from:From the center pre snap...Ball going up to the ref's hands...And back to see who the ref got the ball from...If it came from a ball boy\girl, continue to rewind to see where the ball boy\girl got the ball...How interesting would the AFC Championship game be if Viniteri was suspended?The BlueOnion
Do the camera guys routinely follow the ball boys/girls around the whole game? :bag:
 
I don't know, so I don't know if the film exists.I would suspect that some front office guy (from the Colts or Titans) would have raised this issue already with the league if the film existed. Even though rumors may exist that it did happen, they would need 'evidence' to justify the league investigating.But usually there are some wide angle views of the field, in which you could see the path of the ball (going backwards) from the center at pre-snap, into the hands of the ref, the ref walking towards the sideline and getting the ball handed to him by somebody.The BlueOnion

 
Forget about tracking the path the ball travels getting onto the field. All I'd be looking for on video is a sideline handoff between the K-ballboy and Vinatieri (or another Pats player).If that ballboy is letting the K-balls get out of his possession then he's totally neglected his duty to prevent the balls from being tampered with.If the Pats are going and getting a K-ball from the ballboy, or returning a K-ball to the ballboy, then it'd be pretty obvious what's going on.If the allegations are proven true:Adam Vinatieri = Sammy Sosa

 
Forget about tracking the path the ball travels getting onto the field. All I'd be looking for on video is a sideline handoff between the K-ballboy and Vinatieri (or another Pats player).If that ballboy is letting the K-balls get out of his possession then he's totally neglected his duty to prevent the balls from being tampered with.If the Pats are going and getting a K-ball from the ballboy, or returning a K-ball to the ballboy, then it'd be pretty obvious what's going on.If the allegations are proven true:Adam Vinatieri = Sammy Sosa
you mean he's going to the Hall of Fame?
 
There are definitely a few things one could look for on film....Any suspicisous interaction involving the K-boy and a Patriot...Backtracking video tape of the ball from snap to the K-boy...The BlueOnion

 
To Herd and Zach Piller.Pats fans don't care who the better team is, cause Oakland was the better team in the Snow game when they choked on 3rd and 4th and 1 in the 4th quarter, and Pittburgh was the better team when their special teams lost them the game, and the Greatest Show on Turf was clearly the better team, and the Titans obviously must be the better cause they lost to the Pats twice. Clearly they're better. In the immortal words of Kordell Stewart "Sometimes the better team doesn't win". Hopefully that'll keep you warm on Sunday watching the game. If the Colts come to Foxboro and beat the Pats, all the respect in the world to them. I hope it doesn't happen but if they do, they were the BETTER team that day and deserve to play for the Bowl.

 
I WAS a Pats ballboy in the early eighties - and we did not keep balls warm specifically for kickers. Maybe this started after my tenure. We would, however, on our own volition send out wet balls on rainy days when the opponents O was on the field and keep the drier ones for the Pats. This was not mandated by anyone, it was just me and my friend's way of helping our team.

 
I WAS a Pats ballboy in the early eighties - and we did not keep balls warm specifically for kickers. Maybe this started after my tenure. We would, however, on our own volition send out wet balls on rainy days when the opponents O was on the field and keep the drier ones for the Pats. This was not mandated by anyone, it was just me and my friend's way of helping our team.
you cheating ******* ;)
 
I WAS a Pats ballboy in the early eighties - and we did not keep balls warm specifically for kickers. Maybe this started after my tenure. We would, however, on our own volition send out wet balls on rainy days when the opponents O was on the field and keep the drier ones for the Pats. This was not mandated by anyone, it was just me and my friend's way of helping our team.
Kind of harmelss since the "wet" ball sits on the ground for 10-15 seconds before the center grabs it, probably sitting in a puddle.Which brings up my earlier point, a warm ball won't stay warm for long in sub zero temperatures.How long before the actual kick is the ball on the field? Probably a good 20 seconds, sitting on the frozen ground.Can we drop this please? :wall:
 
I think we got it all wrong here. What they have on camera is Vinatieri warming HIS balls on the sidelines. It sure was cold that night and quite a few of us in the stands on Saturday were also caught warming our balls. No harm no foul. Now lets play ball!

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top