Vince Young refusing to throw at the combine? (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

Why would Vince Young throw at the combine when he can hold private workouts for the few teams that are looking to draft him?

He has absolutely nothing to gain by throwing at the combine. This is all about people grasping for something to criticize him about.

At his private workout he can also throw to receivers he's used to. Not so at the combine.Significant to any QB, imho.

 

[Spike]

I'm listening to radio "1310 The Ticket" and Norm said that during the QB Challenge this past weekend. The QBs had to throw the ball past the two hashmarks (to see the strength of the QB) and VY's first two throws didn't make it to the hashmarks.

Actually I think the Ticket got the story wrong a tad, but it's still worth telling.The challenge was actually deep ball ACCURACY and the QBs were asked to throw the ball downfield BETWEEN the hash marks. On Young's first two throws he was outside the hash marks...and then embarrasingly his agent was seen on camera joking [or not?]..."aim THIS way, waving to the left." Then VY threw his next pass and it just barely made it inside the hash marks.

One of the Sporting News guys ripped Young's agent for letting him participate in the skills challenge suggesting Young had everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Yeah, not surprising that the Ticket reported inaccurately. They obviously didn't watch it. Another thing they didn't tell you was that the other QBs weren't much more accurate on their throws and that Young's two "scratch" throws went over 70 yards, far outdistancing everyone else.

On the final stage of the competition, where the QBs had to drop back, hit a target in the corner of the end zone about 40 yards away, then run through a series of obstacles, hitting 2 other passing targets along the way, all under the clock, Young was the only QB to hit the long pass and the only one to hit all 3 passes. He also had the quickest time, and it wasn't close.

He won that portion, and was 2nd in the others, giving him the overall win.

If this was the Hardline, D&D, or Bob and Dan maybe but not Norm. Norm seems to like VY and he is as reliable and honest as they come. You would be hard pressed to fine anyone in the DFW area that would disagree.As in my earlier post, Norm was just saying there is no need of VY to be participating in these events.

#1. Norm said VY's stock is high as it's going to get. I believe we all may agree with him on this.

#2. VY has no business playing pick up basketball, I believe we all agree with him on this.

#3. VY's agent or advisor has no experience, the too may not be good. I'd agree also.

If Vince trusts a family friend and wants him to get the 3%, just pay it to him, but hire an agent! (Just not Rosenhaus!)

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Vince in Round 3 of Skills Competition. You be the judge.

Streaming Video of Quarterback Challenge

 

[Ridgelake]

Regarding his agent, I'm pretty certain that he's the same guy that represents Farve and McNair. Maybe he's inexperienced when it comes to draft picks, but he is not with NFL QBs.

 

[BigTex]

Regarding his agent, I'm pretty certain that he's the same guy that represents Farve and McNair. Maybe he's inexperienced when it comes to draft picks, but he is not with NFL QBs.

I believe he is the family's attorney.

 

[helix]

He has absolutely nothing to gain by throwing at the combine.

I don't think I agree with that. If Cutler goes and rips it up he could be the 2nd QB takes. Falling 1 spot could mean huge $. I would point to Ronnie Brown last year dropping a 4.4 and looking great in the individual drills as to why someone should participate at the combine. Who would have thought RBrown would go #2 overall before the combine? I certainly did not hear anybody.

 

[toxicbees]

Young has bust written all over him. I know people are saying he's a winner and he can get the job done regardless. But looking at two past Niner QBs, Ken Dorsey was a winner in college, but he couldn't get the job done in the NFL because his weak arm was exposed. Also look at Alex Smith, the transition from an Meyer Option Spread Shotgun offense to the NFL has been particularly tough for him.

 

[Jason Wood]

Young has bust written all over him. I know people are saying he's a winner and he can get the job done regardless. But looking at two past Niner QBs, Ken Dorsey was a winner in college, but he couldn't get the job done in the NFL because his weak arm was exposed. Also look at Alex Smith, the transition from an Meyer Option Spread Shotgun offense to the NFL has been particularly tough for him.

Let's be fair here, Dorsey was never viewed as an NFL starter, hence his getting drafted so late. And Alex Smith is one year into his career, and played part time for one of the worst teams in the league. Let's not write his obituary yet.Young has a ton of questions, but ANY declaration about whether he'll be great or a bust right now is simply to get yourself heard/read. Take a look at any NFL draft and then realize that NFL GMs, scouts and personnel directors have trouble getting it right, and it's their job. For every "I TOLD YOU Player X was going to suck/thrive", each and every one of us have five guys we pontificated on who went completely the other way.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Young has bust written all over him.  I know people are saying he's a winner and he can get the job done regardless.  But looking at two past Niner QBs, Ken Dorsey was a winner in college, but he couldn't get the job done in the NFL because his weak arm was exposed.  Also look at Alex Smith, the transition from an Meyer Option Spread Shotgun offense to the NFL has been particularly tough for him.

There is a difference.Smith is a system QB, but still may be good in the NFL given time to adjust. I believe rookie qbs should never start. They do so way to often these days, much to their detriment. Sitting a year or two would be the best thing for all of them.

Dorsey was the guy who you put in the game and said "just don't make any mistakes, take what's there, and we'll win, because we have those guys beat everywhere else". He did that well, but he didn't make a habit of putting his team on his back in crunch time and pulling out a win through talent, desire, and just sheer force of will. I don't know that he ever did that.

Vince Young did it over and over...and over. Not that Texas was lacking of talent in the rest of the offense. They were, and are, loaded. But when it came down to the nut-cuttin', Vince Young was gonna beat you, himself, every time.

What I think is being overlooked in all the Vince Young talk/analysis/bashing/hype/etc is this:

You can break down his arm and measure him all you want, but the team that drafts VY is getting the rare combo of physically gifted athlete and amazing leader who had his college teammates, fans, and even his coaches ready to run through brick walls at the drop of a hat. He can not only ratchet up his game when needed, seemingly infinitely, he elevates everyone around him.

Leadership, both on and off the field, is a rare and priceless commodity, but someone will recognize it in Vince Young.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Regarding his agent, I'm pretty certain that he's the same guy that represents Farve and McNair. Maybe he's inexperienced when it comes to draft picks, but he is not with NFL QBs.

I believe you are talking about Cutlers agent, although I am not 100% sure.As for Vince not throwing at the combine, I would have been surprised if he did. When he throws at his proday, it will be under conditions more favorable to him, such as WR he is used to, facilities he is comfortable with, and if he performs badly, heck chalk it up to filed conditions or weather, it's not like there will be 10 other QBs there to compare himself with.

 

[Jason Wood]

Regarding his agent, I'm pretty certain that he's the same guy that represents Farve and McNair.  Maybe he's inexperienced when it comes to draft picks, but he is not with NFL QBs.

I believe you are talking about Cutlers agent, although I am not 100% sure.As for Vince not throwing at the combine, I would have been surprised if he did. When he throws at his proday, it will be under conditions more favorable to him, such as WR he is used to, facilities he is comfortable with, and if he performs badly, heck chalk it up to filed conditions or weather, it's not like there will be 10 other QBs there to compare himself with.

Cutler's agent is Bus Cook, who also represents Favre and McNair.Young chose Major Adams as his agent. Adams only has one other NFL client, the Eagles safety Micheal Lewis. Adams was the Young family's attorney for some time.

 

[Peep It Yo!]

I'd have been surprised if Young did decide to throw at the combine.  What did he have to gain?

Confidence that he can throw in the NFL?

Throwing at the combine doesn't prove this at all. It means he can throw far. Wow. Big deal. I bet money Andre Ware and David Klingler could out throw any QB in the NFL. Didn't help them much though.

Throwing far is not that big of a deal, but hitting your receivers is. The story out of the competition is that 4 out of 5 of VY's passes did not connect with his receivers. What can that be blamed on?

 

[Capella]

at comparing Ken Dorsey to Vince Young.

sheeeesh

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'd have been surprised if Young did decide to throw at the combine.  What did he have to gain?

Confidence that he can throw in the NFL?

Throwing at the combine doesn't prove this at all. It means he can throw far. Wow. Big deal. I bet money Andre Ware and David Klingler could out throw any QB in the NFL. Didn't help them much though.

Throwing far is not that big of a deal, but hitting your receivers is. The story out of the competition is that 4 out of 5 of VY's passes did not connect with his receivers. What can that be blamed on?

I dunno.Did you know he was the only one who was throwing to a RB rather than a WR? DeAngelo Williams flat out dropped at least 2 perfect balls that hit him right in the hands. But hey, he's a RB.

Bottom line: Did you see him having a hard time hitting people deep in games this season? If so, when?

 

[Peep It Yo!]

I'd have been surprised if Young did decide to throw at the combine.  What did he have to gain?

Confidence that he can throw in the NFL?

Throwing at the combine doesn't prove this at all. It means he can throw far. Wow. Big deal. I bet money Andre Ware and David Klingler could out throw any QB in the NFL. Didn't help them much though.

Throwing far is not that big of a deal, but hitting your receivers is. The story out of the competition is that 4 out of 5 of VY's passes did not connect with his receivers. What can that be blamed on?

I dunno.Did you know he was the only one who was throwing to a RB rather than a WR?

Bottom line: Did you see him having a hard time hitting people deep in games this season? If so, when?

Yes, I did know that he was the only one throwing to a RB. Although unfortunate for Vince, he will have to throw to RBs in the NFL. That being said, I am just reporting what I have read from people at the competition. I did not follow VY this past year and did not see any of his games. I saw many highlights and he wins ball games...plain and simple. The only game that I saw in its entirety was the 2006 Rose Bowl (which I attended ) and his passes looked okay. I would have liked to see SC put more effort into stopping VY from running so he would HAVE to pass. I don't think UT could have won depending on VY to throw more often. Regardless, he carried the team on his back and has the intangibles of a winner. I just don't see him having the mechanics to excel at the next level.Put him under center and make him throw and I think he is going to have many "issues".

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'd have been surprised if Young did decide to throw at the combine.  What did he have to gain?

Confidence that he can throw in the NFL?

Throwing at the combine doesn't prove this at all. It means he can throw far. Wow. Big deal. I bet money Andre Ware and David Klingler could out throw any QB in the NFL. Didn't help them much though.

Throwing far is not that big of a deal, but hitting your receivers is. The story out of the competition is that 4 out of 5 of VY's passes did not connect with his receivers. What can that be blamed on?

I dunno.Did you know he was the only one who was throwing to a RB rather than a WR?

Bottom line: Did you see him having a hard time hitting people deep in games this season? If so, when?

Yes, I did know that he was the only one throwing to a RB. Although unfortunate for Vince, he will have to throw to RBs in the NFL. That being said, I am just reporting what I have read from people at the competition. I did not follow VY this past year and did not see any of his games. I saw many highlights and he wins ball games...plain and simple. The only game that I saw in its entirety was the 2006 Rose Bowl (which I attended ) and his passes looked okay. I would have liked to see SC put more effort into stopping VY from running so he would HAVE to pass. I don't think UT could have won depending on VY to throw more often. Regardless, he carried the team on his back and has the intangibles of a winner. I just don't see him having the mechanics to excel at the next level.Put him under center and make him throw and I think he is going to have many "issues".

That's what Ohio State tried, and they had a helluva lot better D than SC (not tryin' to smack it up, it's just tOSU's D was...outstanding). VY beat 'em with some great passes to the RB Charles, then the death blow to Sweed in the corner of the end zone.

The Rose Bowl was the same old story, as I tried to discuss with some of the boys on here (Bagger was one, I can't remember who else right now) in the days leading up to the game. They wouldn't even entertain the notion of Texas giving SC a decent game.

I said it would be a good game no matter who won, and that if SC dropped Bing into coverage, Young would have a free-for-all, hitting TE David Thomas all night and running the ball at will. If they brought Bing up to slow Thomas and help in run support, they'd be stuck in cover-3 and mostly man, and unable to disguise their coverages, with which they live and die, and VY would burn them all night with the pass. I said nobody had ever slowed Vince in the run game w/o bringing up a safety, and it was really more of a "pick your poison" type of scenario.

I just based this on what I had seen from both teams all season long.

They said I was crazy, although they never said why. We know now how that worked out.

The poison Pete picked was to leave Bing deep most of the time and hope to get a pass rush on him and get him to throw into his tricky coverages. It didn't work. VY always took the open underneath and IM stuff, except for the one truly bad throw he made all night, back to the right side after rolling left, which was almost picked.

This game was no exception. Young was able to read coverages and exploit them all year .

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

SC needed to tackle Young plain and simple. Will Young be able to run over and around NFL linebackers like that, I guess we will see soon enough.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

SC needed to tackle Young plain and simple. Will Young be able to run over and around NFL linebackers like that, I guess we will see soon enough.

That's what they said after the '05 Rose Bowl, too. Carr railed on his LBs' tackling. After viewing film, he recanted and said something to the effect of 'That was the best performance I've ever seen by a college quarterback.'(pp)When was the last time you saw Young tackled in the open field? You can't tackle what you can't catch, and they couldn't catch him. He's faster than he looks. He has that long stride. He looks like he's just jogging...then you realize he's pulling away from DBs.

Again the only teams that have been able to slow him running were very good D's who committed extra run support.

That being said, I don't think his game in the pros will be to run it even 10 times a game. What will make him devastating is the thought in the back of every defensive player and coach's mind that he could pull it down and run it at any time. He has to be accounted for on every play. It's like playing with an extra offensive player, and if he goes, he's not being brought down on any shoestring or arm tackles.

 

[Thorpe]

How many college QBs that played in system where they were in the shotgun a mojority of the time have had success in the pros. I think Rothelsberger is one. Are there any others? Any notable busts?

Also, Texas's team was stacked last year, even if they never got credit for it by ESPN. Both lines were incredible, as well as the secondary, running backs, and at least one WR.

It doesn't matter a lot how well he can run in the pros, If he can't read defenses, spot the open man, and get him the ball quickly, then he will be a bust, as can be said about any QB coming out of college.

 

[Donnybrook]

NCAA | Young may skip throwing at the NFL Combine [KFFL]

Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:27:19 -0800

Chip Brown, of the Dallas Morning News, reports Texas QB Vince Young may not throw at the NFL Combine, according to agent Major Adams. Adams, who stated last month that Young would throw for teams at the NFL combine beginning next week, now says Young may not throw and instead may only interview with teams. When asked why it might not be a good thing for Young to throw at the combine, Adams replied, "Unfamiliar surroundings, unfamiliar receivers." The NFL combine in Indianapolis begins Feb. 22. Young said during a public appearance on Saturday at The Galleria in Houston that he plans to interview with teams and "probably throw a little bit."

 

[Bri]

can he throw as far as Boller did while on his knees? Can he throw last second bombs like Michael Bishop? Can he run as well as Major Harris? Can he command the offense as well as Tommie Frazier?

 

[EBF]

Dorsey was the guy who you put in the game and said "just don't make any mistakes, take what's there, and we'll win, because we have those guys beat everywhere else". He did that well, but he didn't make a habit of putting his team on his back in crunch time and pulling out a win through talent, desire, and just sheer force of will. I don't know that he ever did that.

He had a pretty nice drive against Florida State.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Dorsey was the guy who you put in the game and said "just don't make any mistakes, take what's there, and we'll win, because we have those guys beat everywhere else". He did that well, but he didn't make a habit of putting his team on his back in crunch time and pulling out a win through talent, desire, and just sheer force of will. I don't know that he ever did that.

He had a pretty nice drive against Florida State.

OK. There's one...and there are probably a couple more...but he didn't make a habit of winning games with his talent, not that there's anything wrong with that. He is what he is.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

Vince could very well be a top 3 or 5 pick right now, so he probably figures that he has no where to go but down by participating in the combine... and dropping out of the top 5 would definately cost him lots of money in the long run.

I do think that it's chicken poop. I say get your butt out there and show what you can (or can't) do, man. You can't hide forever.

USC didn't find Him for 60 mins.,good enough for me.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

The problem is that Young shouldn't have thrown at the Skills Competition (and not that well, really) if he wasn't going to throw at the Combine. Now that he showed some issues at the Skills Competition, everyone wants to see him at the Combine. His agent is a moron for allowing him to go to the Skills Competition.

 

[Warsteinner]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

 

[JaxBill]

Maybe he's doing this on purpose, so the Saints (or even Texans) don't draft him and he falls to the Titans, since he's tight with McNair..

 

[Nihilist Pig]

The problem is the Vince Young went out of his way to say he WOULD throw at the Combine. Most of us wouldn't have expected him to throw there for obvious reasons. But by publicly acknowledging he would throw [but not run], and then reconsidering [if in fact he has], it casts a pall on an area he already has doubters on.

Dude, you obviously are a VY noob.

If there's one thing that cat does not lack, it's confidence.

These are the two things that should be coming together to cause concern, here. VY did tell the media that he was going to throw. And we do know that he's overflowing with confidence, so it follows that he would happily get out there and throw if given the chance, especially after declaring he would.So what happened? Mr. Confidence wouldn't have pulled the plug himself. And people guiding him wouldn't have pulled the plug once he already declared his intentions, if he were going to go lights out. Showing that kind of confidence and backing it up would lock up bigtime money, and the gravy train knows that.

People then have to wonder...was somebody who is prepping VY for his throwing workouts telling him he wasn't ready to make throws yet? These guys all get prepped by experts leading up to workouts. Did VY's guy tell him that he wasn't making NFL throws, and he needed to work on it for as long as possible before he put what he's got on display?

Given the declaration and the confidence, I have to assume the choice to skip throws came from somebody else, with Vince's best interests in mind. If that's the case, what could be the reason?

Not throwing alone shouldn't be cause for concern. Going against character like this, however, makes it appear he's decided to go into hiding.

 

[Hawk]

Vince did fine at the skills competition and was clearly the best overall QB performer there. He also finished it by blowing away the field in the scramble drill. And he threw the longest ball in the distance portion (around 75 yards), but it was out of bounds. Still, he showed good arm strength.

Those who think he hurt himself probably didn't watch and are just reading dopes like Matt Hayes. Of course, Hayes also said before the season that Reggie McNeil of Texas A&M was a better QB than Vince Young and basically that Vince would be playing WR in the NFL. Hayes is a moron, and I think Mack Brown must have stolen his girlfriend. All his articles about Texas are negative except when he really had no choice after the Rose Bowl.

And whoever said Vince has bust written all over him is as clueless as they come. Vince was a legend in high school, he became a college legend at Texas, and he will be a success in the NFL. Players like Vince don't come around very often and they don't flop when they do. Go ahead and doubt him, he'll prove you wrong...again.

 

[pgreenfan]

I'm listening to radio "1310 The Ticket" and Norm said that during the QB Challenge this past weekend. The QBs had to throw the ball past the two hashmarks (to see the strength of the QB) and VY's first two throws didn't make it to the hashmarks.

Actually I think the Ticket got the story wrong a tad, but it's still worth telling.The challenge was actually deep ball ACCURACY and the QBs were asked to throw the ball downfield BETWEEN the hash marks. On Young's first two throws he was outside the hash marks...and then embarrasingly his agent was seen on camera joking [or not?]..."aim THIS way, waving to the left." Then VY threw his next pass and it just barely made it inside the hash marks.

One of the Sporting News guys ripped Young's agent for letting him participate in the skills challenge suggesting Young had everything to lose and nothing to gain.

I read similar comments by a few sportswriters. Young was THE hotest draft pick after the season, but didn't do himself any favors at the compeition. He apparently is represented by an old family friend who does not have a lot of experience as a sports agent.

Oh great. I hadn't heard that. What is the deal with Texas players and their crappy representation? Hire a real friggin agent! Ricky Williams and master P come to mind........ that was a real good deal they worked out.......

I see a lot of reference to the Master P deal but would like someone who knows to answer this, what was the total difference in compensation for Ricky compared to Edgerrin James who went a pick before him?

 

[Hawk]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

Holy cow, this is a ridiculous post. You obviously did not watch Vince Young play this year. Sure, he threw for over 3,000 yards and 26 TD's by throwing nothing but floaters. And I think Leinart is a good prospect, but the Big 12 defenses are better than than Pac 10 defenses. This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've seen in quite some time.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

Wow.

Just...wow.

The Big 12, while not the top defensive conference in the country this year, was far and away better than the Pac-10, and Texas beat far better defenses than did SC. I can't believe we're going down this road again. These were the same vacuous arguments everyone was using when telling me why SC was going to crush Texas like a bug. Funny.

Also, the "floaters" remark shows you've seen little of Young's play this year.

He'll make the throws...funky delivery & all. He won't be the first. You'll see.

But after his first bad NFL throw, I'm sure you'll be one of the first on this board saying "SEEEEE, he can't cut it in the NFL!!!".

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Vince did fine at the skills competition and was clearly the best overall QB performer there.  He also finished it by blowing away the field in the scramble drill.  And he threw the longest ball in the distance portion (around 75 yards), but it was out of bounds.  Still, he showed good arm strength. 

Those who think he hurt himself probably didn't watch and are just reading dopes like Matt Hayes.  Of course, Hayes also said before the season that Reggie McNeil of Texas A&M was a better QB than Vince Young and basically that Vince would be playing WR in the NFL.  Hayes is a moron, and I think Mack Brown must have stolen his girlfriend.  All his articles about Texas are negative except when he really had no choice after the Rose Bowl.

And whoever said Vince has bust written all over him is as clueless as they come.  Vince was a legend in high school, he became a college legend at Texas, and he will be a success in the NFL.  Players like Vince don't come around very often and they don't flop when they do.  Go ahead and doubt him, he'll prove you wrong...again.

Hawk knows.This whole "He showed his passing issues at the skills comp is such a line of crap".

You can mark down everyone who says that as (a) didn't watch it, and/or (b) has an agenda.

Again, see for yourself:

Streaming Video of Quarterback Challenge

 

[Warsteinner]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

Wow.

Just...wow.

The Big 12, while not the top defensive conference in the country this year, was far and away better than the Pac-10, and Texas beat far better defenses than did SC. I can't believe we're going down this road again. These were the same vacuous arguments everyone was using when telling me why SC was going to crush Texas like a bug. Funny.

Also, the "floaters" remark shows you've seen little of Young's play this year.

He'll make the throws...funky delivery & all. He won't be the first. You'll see.

But after his first bad NFL throw, I'm sure you'll be one of the first on this board saying "SEEEEE, he can't cut it in the NFL!!!".

VY played one good defense this year, OSU. What did his stat line look like in that game? He made ONE quaility throw in that entire game. The only difference between this guy and Mike Vick are 30 lbs and a dead arm. Vick can at least air it out.

 

[Warsteinner]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

Holy cow, this is a ridiculous post. You obviously did not watch Vince Young play this year. Sure, he threw for over 3,000 yards and 26 TD's by throwing nothing but floaters. And I think Leinart is a good prospect, but the Big 12 defenses are better than than Pac 10 defenses. This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've seen in quite some time.

You're right VY has all the tools necessary to be successful at the next level. You think he's going to run around in the NFL like he did in college?

Its not going to happen.

You think that side arm crap will work in the NFL? It might, and VY can make the claim he is the black Bernie Kosar.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

Wow.

Just...wow.

The Big 12, while not the top defensive conference in the country this year, was far and away better than the Pac-10, and Texas beat far better defenses than did SC. I can't believe we're going down this road again. These were the same vacuous arguments everyone was using when telling me why SC was going to crush Texas like a bug. Funny.

Also, the "floaters" remark shows you've seen little of Young's play this year.

He'll make the throws...funky delivery & all. He won't be the first. You'll see.

But after his first bad NFL throw, I'm sure you'll be one of the first on this board saying "SEEEEE, he can't cut it in the NFL!!!".

VY played one good defense this year, OSU. What did his stat line look like in that game? He made ONE quaility throw in that entire game. The only difference between this guy and Mike Vick are 30 lbs and a dead arm. Vick can at least air it out.

"One good defense"? "One good throw"?Are you really sure that's the hand you wanna play?

He made "one good throw" en route to a 18-29, 270, 2TD, 76 rushing yard day against a better D (#5 nationally, #1 vs the run) than Leinart played all year, in their yard, at night. Oh, and with the game on the line, he threw a perfect game-winner that only Sweed could catch.

...and are you saying the nationally 13th ranked OU defense, which held mighty Oregon to 14 points isn't any good? I remember Texas and VY rolling up 45 on them.

Kansas was 11th overall, with the 3rd ranked rush defense. Texas put 52 on them...in the 1st half.

Texas Tech had the #15 pass D and the #18 scoring D. Vince accounted for 3 TDs and about 300 yards in 2.5 quarters while Texas put 52 on them.

Now, if you want try and denigrate these teams, remember that they all came in ahead of #34 Arkansas, SC's best defensive opponent (besides Texas at #10). Next was #38 Fresno, also non-conference. SC's best Pac-10 opponents, defensively, were #44 Cal and #46 Oregon. After that, it gets dismal...#s 75, 86, 94, 106, and even worse.

 

[Hawk]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

Holy cow, this is a ridiculous post. You obviously did not watch Vince Young play this year. Sure, he threw for over 3,000 yards and 26 TD's by throwing nothing but floaters. And I think Leinart is a good prospect, but the Big 12 defenses are better than than Pac 10 defenses. This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've seen in quite some time.

You're right VY has all the tools necessary to be successful at the next level. You think he's going to run around in the NFL like he did in college?

Its not going to happen.

You think that side arm crap will work in the NFL? It might, and VY can make the claim he is the black Bernie Kosar.

Vince does have the tools. Dead arm? He just threw it 75 yards in the All star Challenge. Other than a funky delivery, he's got great physical tools. And arm strength is not everything, VY is a lot more accurate than Vick.Will he run around in the NFL? Yes. Not as much as college, but enough to make him dangerous. Again you are proving that you did not watch many of VY's games this year. Aside from USC and OkState, games in which he ran more because he was taking over to get the win, he only had about 600-650 yards rushing on the season (about 50-60 yards per game). He passed a lot more than he ran this year. Assuming his O-coordinator in the NFL is not a moron that tries to make him a total pocket passer, I would expect him to average 40-50 yards rushing per game in the NFL.

Will the side arm crap work in the NFL? Yes, if he can place it accurately, which he has shown he can. And because he's almost 6'6, his lower delivery point is still higher than many NFL QB's.

If you're going to talk about tools, you need to also focus on the tools that can't be coached: leadership and ability to thrive under extreme pressure. Those are the tools that make it very unlikely IMO that he will be a bust in the NFL.

 

[Warsteinner]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

Holy cow, this is a ridiculous post. You obviously did not watch Vince Young play this year. Sure, he threw for over 3,000 yards and 26 TD's by throwing nothing but floaters. And I think Leinart is a good prospect, but the Big 12 defenses are better than than Pac 10 defenses. This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've seen in quite some time.

You're right VY has all the tools necessary to be successful at the next level. You think he's going to run around in the NFL like he did in college?

Its not going to happen.

You think that side arm crap will work in the NFL? It might, and VY can make the claim he is the black Bernie Kosar.

Vince does have the tools. Dead arm? He just threw it 75 yards in the All star Challenge. Other than a funky delivery, he's got great physical tools. And arm strength is not everything, VY is a lot more accurate than Vick.Will he run around in the NFL? Yes. Not as much as college, but enough to make him dangerous. Again you are proving that you did not watch many of VY's games this year. Aside from USC and OkState, games in which he ran more because he was taking over to get the win, he only had about 600-650 yards rushing on the season (about 50-60 yards per game). He passed a lot more than he ran this year. Assuming his O-coordinator in the NFL is not a moron that tries to make him a total pocket passer, I would expect him to average 40-50 yards rushing per game in the NFL.

Will the side arm crap work in the NFL? Yes, if he can place it accurately, which he has shown he can. And because he's almost 6'6, his lower delivery point is still higher than many NFL QB's.

If you're going to talk about tools, you need to also focus on the tools that can't be coached: leadership and ability to thrive under extreme pressure. Those are the tools that make it very unlikely IMO that he will be a bust in the NFL.

Who is the last QB to come out of the Big 12 to be worth a #### in the NFL?

I have no reason to believe this one will be any different.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Well, just so everyone knows, he isn't the first or last guy to do this. Some guys dont even go to the combine. Almost every big name player skips some aspects of the combine. I don't think Lienart is even going to the combine.

Young is still going to have a private workout and he is still going to have a pro day. He will throw plenty at those.

I do agree that it is a little weak for him not to do this.

Lienart has proved time and time again that he can make big time throws downfield against big time competition. Young has done nothing besides throw floaters and have his WR make plays against terrible Big 12 defenses. Lienart does not need to go to the combine. Young needs to prove doubters wrong, if he can that is.

Holy cow, this is a ridiculous post. You obviously did not watch Vince Young play this year. Sure, he threw for over 3,000 yards and 26 TD's by throwing nothing but floaters. And I think Leinart is a good prospect, but the Big 12 defenses are better than than Pac 10 defenses. This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've seen in quite some time.

You're right VY has all the tools necessary to be successful at the next level. You think he's going to run around in the NFL like he did in college?

Its not going to happen.

You think that side arm crap will work in the NFL? It might, and VY can make the claim he is the black Bernie Kosar.

Vince does have the tools. Dead arm? He just threw it 75 yards in the All star Challenge. Other than a funky delivery, he's got great physical tools. And arm strength is not everything, VY is a lot more accurate than Vick.Will he run around in the NFL? Yes. Not as much as college, but enough to make him dangerous. Again you are proving that you did not watch many of VY's games this year. Aside from USC and OkState, games in which he ran more because he was taking over to get the win, he only had about 600-650 yards rushing on the season (about 50-60 yards per game). He passed a lot more than he ran this year. Assuming his O-coordinator in the NFL is not a moron that tries to make him a total pocket passer, I would expect him to average 40-50 yards rushing per game in the NFL.

Will the side arm crap work in the NFL? Yes, if he can place it accurately, which he has shown he can. And because he's almost 6'6, his lower delivery point is still higher than many NFL QB's.

If you're going to talk about tools, you need to also focus on the tools that can't be coached: leadership and ability to thrive under extreme pressure. Those are the tools that make it very unlikely IMO that he will be a bust in the NFL.

Who is the last QB to come out of the Big 12 to be worth a #### in the NFL?

I have no reason to believe this one will be any different.

Wow.You're just full of....great arguments.

 

[Ridgelake]

Regarding his agent, I'm pretty certain that he's the same guy that represents Farve and McNair.  Maybe he's inexperienced when it comes to draft picks, but he is not with NFL QBs.

I believe you are talking about Cutlers agent, although I am not 100% sure.As for Vince not throwing at the combine, I would have been surprised if he did. When he throws at his proday, it will be under conditions more favorable to him, such as WR he is used to, facilities he is comfortable with, and if he performs badly, heck chalk it up to filed conditions or weather, it's not like there will be 10 other QBs there to compare himself with.

Cutler's agent is Bus Cook, who also represents Favre and McNair.Young chose Major Adams as his agent. Adams only has one other NFL client, the Eagles safety Micheal Lewis. Adams was the Young family's attorney for some time.

Thanks for clearing this up, GPN and Jason.

 

[toxicbees]

Vince did fine at the skills competition and was clearly the best overall QB performer there. He also finished it by blowing away the field in the scramble drill. And he threw the longest ball in the distance portion (around 75 yards), but it was out of bounds. Still, he showed good arm strength.

Those who think he hurt himself probably didn't watch and are just reading dopes like Matt Hayes. Of course, Hayes also said before the season that Reggie McNeil of Texas A&M was a better QB than Vince Young and basically that Vince would be playing WR in the NFL. Hayes is a moron, and I think Mack Brown must have stolen his girlfriend. All his articles about Texas are negative except when he really had no choice after the Rose Bowl.

And whoever said Vince has bust written all over him is as clueless as they come. Vince was a legend in high school, he became a college legend at Texas, and he will be a success in the NFL. Players like Vince don't come around very often and they don't flop when they do. Go ahead and doubt him, he'll prove you wrong...again.

Your homerism is undeniable.

 

[toxicbees]

Will the side arm crap work in the NFL? Yes, if he can place it accurately, which he has shown he can. And because he's almost 6'6, his lower delivery point is still higher than many NFL QB's.

That side arm crap is going to get batted down in the nfl.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Will the side arm crap work in the NFL?  Yes, if he can place it accurately, which he has shown he can.  And because he's almost 6'6, his lower delivery point is still higher than many NFL QB's. 

That side arm crap is going to get batted down in the nfl.

Really?Chris Simms (6'4", 220) has as perfect a throwing motion as there is, yet one of his biggest problems in college was that he got a TON of passes batted down, certainly far more, even by per centage basis than Young (6'5", 240). Young rarely gets a ball batted. It may still be happening some to Simms in the league, but it's certainly nowhere near the problem for him that it was in college. Why is that?

I'll tell you why. He reads defenses better and sees passing lanes better now, and that's due to coaching and film work. Vince Young, low release and all, is far better in this regard at the same stage than Simms was.

You think Young can't be coached up? I'd say a kid whom many were saying should be moved to WR one year, then leads the nation in pass-efficiency the next, along the way becoming the first ever 3000/1000 QB is very coachable.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

No offense Scotsman, but it's hard to think I'm getting unbiased opinions on Young when you have him doing the Macarana as your avatar.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

No offense Scotsman, but it's hard to think I'm getting unbiased opinions on Young when you have him doing the Macarana as your avatar.

No offense taken.I'm maybe not necessarily unbiased, but definitely truthful. Refute, objectively and truthfully, one thing I've said on this thread. One thing.

Look what I wrote about Chris Simms.

I'm a fan of his, too. But I'll tell you his weaknesses. Same with any Texas player. I'll be candid about it, but you don't have to believe me. Vince'll show you, just as he turned a lot of Texas scoffers into believers and lifelong fans.

I knew the first time I saw Vince Young on the practice field, when Simms was the starter, that the kid was the best player we had on the roster and that we'd probably someday play for the national championship behind him...and that was just based on his physical gifts, raw and even more unpolished then than now. I had no way to know then what an amazing leader he'd become. He redshirted that year. That team was quite loaded, buit there were ego issues. Vince eventually united the Horns and the rest is history.

 

[Hawk]

No offense Scotsman, but it's hard to think I'm getting unbiased opinions on Young when you have him doing the Macarana as your avatar.

No offense, but it's hard to think I'm getting knowledgable opinions from some of the people on here who obviously haven't watched him play very much. And I have freely admitted to being a Texas homer. I've seen every game VY has played at Texas. I am not unbiased, but the collective body of work VY has put together (especially while going 24-1 over the last two seasons) is pretty incredible. So you will not find a single Texas fan that thinks he won't succeed in the NFL. Really, from a Texas fan standpoint having watched him play the last two years, the notion he could fail in the NFL is downright laughable.

He was a man among boys in college, and its unusual for that not to translate to NFL success unless its due to off-field problems, laziness, inability to deal with pressure, etc. But VY is the opposite of all those things. He has amazing leadership and will to win and he comes through in the clutch, and when you combine that with very impressive physical skills, you have a rare package.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I'm not refuting anything, I just happen to believe that Vince will not make as good an NFL QB, at least without some changes, as you. I think learning the 3, 5 and 7 step drops from center is going to be tougher then you think, that he will have some passes batted down at first until he adjusts and that although he may be bigger and tougher than Mike Vick, he isn't nearly as fast and he won't be able to take those hits in the NFL.

But I certainly could be wrong.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

No offense Scotsman, but it's hard to think I'm getting unbiased opinions on Young when you have him doing the Macarana as your avatar.

No offense, but it's hard to think I'm getting knowledgable opinions from some of the people on here who obviously haven't watched him play very much. And I have freely admitted to being a Texas homer. I've seen every game VY has played at Texas. I am not unbiased, but the collective body of work VY has put together (especially while going 24-1 over the last two seasons) is pretty incredible. So you will not find a single Texas fan that thinks he won't succeed in the NFL. Really, from a Texas fan standpoint having watched him play the last two years, the notion he could fail in the NFL is downright laughable.

He was a man among boys in college, and its unusual for that not to translate to NFL success unless its due to off-field problems, laziness, inability to deal with pressure, etc. But VY is the opposite of all those things. He has amazing leadership and will to win and he comes through in the clutch, and when you combine that with very impressive physical skills, you have a rare package.

None taken.

 

[joffer]

I wouldn't if I were him. Nothing to gain and everything to lose.

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I'm not refuting anything, I just happen to believe that Vince will not make as good an NFL QB, at least without some changes, as you. I think learning the 3, 5 and 7 step drops from center is going to be tougher then you think, that he will have some passes batted down at first until he adjusts and that although he may be bigger and tougher than Mike Vick, he isn't nearly as fast and he won't be able to take those hits in the NFL.

But I certainly could be wrong.

Actually, although I've not gone into it much, I have said in this thread that I think he will need to change his game some. The thing is I don't think he'll have that much of a problem doing that. He's changed his game a lot from the time he got to Texas until now. He'll have to get used to more snaps under center, less running, reading more complex defenses, etc. That's all given. It may take time and work, but nobody works harder.

Nobody with any sanity is coming on here saying Young is going to run in the NFL as much as he did in college. That would be crazy. But to discount his passing ability is a serious error in judgement...one which many have made, with sad endings for them. Combine that with his everpresent ability to take off, and he's a serious headache for D-coordinators.