*** Vince Young Thread *** (1 Viewer)

[SammyJankis]

Young seems like a good fit for the Cards, but I think it's unlikely. Vince Young's chances to being around at #10 are somewhere between slim and none. The Cards rarely trade up in the first round, in fact they usually trade down. I am hard pressed to think of one time they moved up in the first.That being said, they've got a brand new stadium next year and have to fill it up. The Cards have been loathe to trade up, because they're notiously cheap and don't want to pay signing bonuses. However, a desire to put butts in seats might force them to play things differently and go after Young.As a Cards fan, I'd love to see it, but think its unlikely.

 

[Trap Play]

If he comes out, Vince Young to the Titans for McNair to tutor, bank on it.

 

[dgreen]

I'm not trying to argue Vick>Young, but I just want to point out that comparing Vick's and Young's stats from their final college seasons isn't a fair comparison. Vick's final season was only his second year playing. And, I seem to remember he played hurt in some games. Young is in his third year of action. If Vick stayed one more year, I wonder what his numbers would have been?

 

[superbeck1]

If he comes out, Vince Young to the Titans for McNair to tutor, bank on it.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Young reminds me of McNabb, not Vick...

Culpepper - not Vick.

Donovan McNabb – 6'2"/240 lbsDaunte Culpepper – 6'4"/260 lbs

Mike Vick – 6'0"/215 lbs

Vince Young - 6'5"/233 lbs

All three. Size of Culpepper. Athleticism of Vick. Poise of McNabb (pocket presence anyway). And better decision making than all three.

Although, he was competing against college competition last night.

I think "college competition" is being kind to the USC defense.

That's true too. I don't usually watch O-line play, but last night, it was obvious why they're talking about Jon Scott being a 1st rounder. The rest played well too.The USC defense was bad last night, but I wonder what defense possibly could have defended against what Young brought to the game.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm not trying to argue Vick>Young, but I just want to point out that comparing Vick's and Young's stats from their final college seasons isn't a fair comparison. Vick's final season was only his second year playing. And, I seem to remember he played hurt in some games. Young is in his third year of action. If Vick stayed one more year, I wonder what his numbers would have been?

Didn't lots of people say, when he entered the draft, that he should have stayed in school at least one more year? I think he'd be a much better pro if he had.

 

[derek19]

Actually it leaves the Saints at #2 deciding between Young and Lienary. I hope they choose Young.

Jaws on Espn the other day stated his "sources" are tellin him that the saints do not plan on drafting Liney because they feel he will pull an Eli. So if vince comes out, i could see him going to the saints also. "bank on it"

 

[Wu-banger]

Young reminds me of McNabb, not Vick...

Culpepper - not Vick.

Donovan McNabb – 6'2"/240 lbsDaunte Culpepper – 6'4"/260 lbs

Mike Vick – 6'0"/215 lbs

Vince Young - 6'5"/233 lbs

All three. Size of Culpepper. Athleticism of Vick. Poise of McNabb (pocket presence anyway). And better decision making than all three.

Although, he was competing against college competition last night.

so it is safe to say a bigger version of Steve Young ??

 

[mozzy84]

Young reminds me of McNabb, not Vick...

Culpepper - not Vick.

Donovan McNabb – 6'2"/240 lbsDaunte Culpepper – 6'4"/260 lbs

Mike Vick – 6'0"/215 lbs

Vince Young - 6'5"/233 lbs

All three. Size of Culpepper. Athleticism of Vick. Poise of McNabb (pocket presence anyway). And better decision making than all three.

Although, he was competing against college competition last night.

I think "college competition" is being kind to the USC defense.

Thats what I keep thinking.

 

[Trap Play]

I like Jaws, but he cracks me up some times. Using that logic, what makes his 'sources' think Vince Young won't pull an Eli on the Saints too? Honestly, would anyone in their right mind want to play for the 'aints?I so hope Leinart goes to the Saints. He was too good to go to my 9ers, so welcome to a worse franchise with 10 million dollars less than you could have had last year, fella.

 

[Bloom]

The Texans could take Vince too, its not out of the question. No way Vince gets past the Titans.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

If he comes out, Vince Young to the Titans for McNair to tutor, bank on it.

I agree, unless the Saints prefer him to Leinart. I don't see Young going lower than #3 - the upside potential is just too high.

 

[AB in DC]

Lots of teams above Arizona who could use an upgrade at QB:2. New Orleans3. Tennessee4. NY Jets (Penning is damaged goods)6/7. Oakland9. DetroitMaybe even Houston or Buffalo considering how poorly their incumbents have played.

 

[dgreen]

I'm not trying to argue Vick>Young, but I just want to point out that comparing Vick's and Young's stats from their final college seasons isn't a fair comparison. Vick's final season was only his second year playing. And, I seem to remember he played hurt in some games. Young is in his third year of action. If Vick stayed one more year, I wonder what his numbers would have been?

Didn't lots of people say, when he entered the draft, that he should have stayed in school at least one more year? I think he'd be a much better pro if he had.

I'm sure plenty of people said that. But, he was a lock for the top pick and couldn't pass that up.And, I'm not one to say that staying another year in college will help anyone's game. The only way it would is if your NFL team refuses to teach you or if you are a marginal player that has to fight hard to make an NFL roster. If he's going to be good, he'll be good whether he learns another year in college or not.

Plus, I really don't think VT is the place to hone your QB skills. They don't run a very complicated passing game. They don't use too many formations, from what I've seen, and generally rely on their superior talent to beat opponents. If he was going back to a program with a more NFL-style passing attack, he might have benefited some.

But, like I said, how's he going to learn more about being an NFL QB in college than in the NFL? I think his coaches are failing him more than anything. Atlanta needs an innovative offensive mind to figure out how to use Vick.

 

[Trap Play]

No way Vince gets past the Titans.

I whole-heartedly agree.

 

[Righetti]

If he comes out, Vince Young to the Titans for McNair to tutor, bank on it.

didn't think of this

although if he falls to #4, I think the Jets would be silly to not look at him

 

[Bloom]

If he comes out, Vince Young to the Titans for McNair to tutor, bank on it.

just wanted to point out that mcnair is already vince's father figure and mentor as a football player, so this just makes too much sense.

 

[joffer]

Even with that compact throwing motion, he was throwing darts.

I don't watch a lot of college ball, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like Young has an almost side arm throwing style. If so, does anyone see that as being a major problem at the pro level? Will he be able to get the ball over the D-Line consistenty? Or will NFL coaches try and change his mechanics?

I believe they will and should try. His throwing mechanics aren't very good.I believe Young will end up being better than Vick, but as another post pointed out, Young is more experienced at this point in his career than Vick was at the same point. Vick still has potential to improve.

 

[Jason Wood]

Absolutely agree. Young learned this year to trust the pocket...while his legs are [obviously] a major weapon, he shows poise in the pocket and understands when passing is the better alternative. Vick never learned that lesson, and for whatever reason, maybe because he had success running for daylight early in his NFL career, I believe he's now to set in his ways to re-teach himself to trust his arm BEFORE his legs.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

But, like I said, how's he going to learn more about being an NFL QB in college than in the NFL? I think his coaches are failing him more than anything. Atlanta needs an innovative offensive mind to figure out how to use Vick.

Sounds like they may try as the Falcons are not renewing the contract of their QB coach.

 

[WhoDat]

Young is from Texas. More specifically, Young is from Houston. McNair and Co. are going to have one hell of a time deciding between Young and Bush, assuming each comes out. Bush floated a comment at media day this week that he is not necessarily excited about the prospect of playing in Houston for the Texans, while Young currently owns the state. #10 has a get out of jail free card good for, oh, the rest of his life within the boundaries of the Lone Star State. Yes, the Texans have stated they intend to keep Carr. Yes, the Texans need much more than a single player. However, the economic impact that Vick had on the Falcons franchise has to be something McNair will consider. Vick's presence helped turn that team into a nice business investment for A. Blank and, subsequently, a winner. Young will have an astronomical butts to seats ratio for the Texans, as compared to Bush, and he could have a similiar financial impact on the Texans organization. If you missed it, Reliant was damn near empty towards the end of the year. If Young declares, the #1 pick is going to be extremely interesting this year. As far as the Saints go, I do not see Bush, Leinhart or Young making it easy for that team to sign them.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think Young, not Vick, may be the guy who truly "revolutionizes" the QB position.His size and ability to take a hit will allow Tennessee (assumption) to actually design 8-10 runs per game for him without holding their collective breath on every play that he won't get up from the tackle. Add to that his superior accuracy will make him more dangerous in the pocket than Vick is, and I believe Young may do what many people thought Vick would do, change the way QB play is evaluated.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I think Young, not Vick, may be the guy who truly "revolutionizes" the QB position.

His size and ability to take a hit will allow Tennessee (assumption) to actually design 8-10 runs per game for him without holding their collective breath on every play that he won't get up from the tackle. Add to that his superior accuracy will make him more dangerous in the pocket than Vick is, and I believe Young may do what many people thought Vick would do, change the way QB play is evaluated.

Didn't Culpepper already "revolutionize" the position in this way? I remember them saying the same thing about him early in his career. Then the injuries came.

 

[valhallan]

As far as the Saints go, I do not see Bush, Leinhart or Young making it easy for that team to sign them.

You know, I'm in inclined to agree with you. But then again, didn't Leinart pass up millions to go back to school and party? If he doesn't care about money and likes to party, perhaps New Orleans is just the place for him!Well, one can hope

 

[P Boy]

Didn't Culpepper already "revolutionize" the position in this way? I remember them saying the same thing about him early in his career. Then the injuries came.

Culpepper's decision making has never been any kind of a strength for him - and it really showed when he didn't have someone as talented as Moss to go get jumpballs for him. He also seems to be somewhat lacking in leadership ability - and although that IMO isn't critical for a QB, there was never really someone in MIN to fill that spot, & Tice obviously allowed the team to ebb & flow at its own doing, which also seemed to hurt Culpepper a bit.

 

[mbuehner]

I think you guys are mixing a lot of koolaid based on a guys collegic career. We'll see how often Young runs those one step QB draws with NFL defensive tackles and ends bearing down on him, and we'll see if his accuracy is good enough to beat NFL dbs in tight spaces (his biggest question mark i think). He's a good prospect, but revolutionizing the position? Not so fast.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think Young, not Vick, may be the guy who truly "revolutionizes" the QB position.

His size and ability to take a hit will allow Tennessee (assumption) to actually design 8-10 runs per game for him without holding their collective breath on every play that he won't get up from the tackle.  Add to that his superior accuracy will make him more dangerous in the pocket than Vick is, and I believe Young may do what many people thought Vick would do, change the way QB play is evaluated.

Didn't Culpepper already "revolutionize" the position in this way? I remember them saying the same thing about him early in his career. Then the injuries came.

Yes and no. First off, they only ran him 5-6 times a game, and a lot of those were short yardage/goal line carries. I'm thinking Young can run 8-10 times a game on designed bootlegs, QB draws, even option plays. Young is a VASTLY superior rusher to Culpepper.Second, Culpepper had only missed 7 games in 5 seasons as a starter (played the full 16 games 3 times and 14 games another) prior to this year. This year he was only averaging 3 rushes per game when he went down, so his most significant injury came in the season in which the Vikes were actually running him the least.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think you guys are mixing a lot of koolaid based on a guys collegic career. We'll see how often Young runs those one step QB draws with NFL defensive tackles and ends bearing down on him, and we'll see if his accuracy is good enough to beat NFL dbs in tight spaces (his biggest question mark i think). He's a good prospect, but revolutionizing the position? Not so fast.

Revolutionizing a position doesn't necessarily mean you'll be the best at that position, just that your play changes the way people view a player at your spot. Young has the speed, and more importantly, the SIZE to be a legitimate dual threat the likes of which Vick has not been able to fully realize due to his inability to run 10 times a game and stay healthy. That's all I'm saying.

 

[mbuehner]

Yes and no. First off, they only ran him 5-6 times a game, and a lot of those were short yardage/goal line carries. I'm thinking Young can run 8-10 times a game on designed bootlegs, QB draws, even option plays.

Last time i heard this kind of talk was re: Kordell Stewart.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Yes and no. First off, they only ran him 5-6 times a game, and a lot of those were short yardage/goal line carries. I'm thinking Young can run 8-10 times a game on designed bootlegs, QB draws, even option plays. Young is a VASTLY superior rusher to Culpepper.

Second, Culpepper had only missed 7 games in 5 seasons as a starter (played the full 16 games 3 times and 14 games another) prior to this year. This year he was only averaging 3 rushes per game when he went down, so his most significant injury came in the season in which the Vikes were actually running him the least.

While he hasn't MISSED many games, his game has changed dramatically in the last two seasons. Three years ago, he played the entire year with (I forget exactly what) something like a strained ligaments in his knee, an injury suffered the year before. This caused him to radically alter his game from monster running QB.Rather than argue semantics, lets just say that Young will complete the revolution started by Culpepper. How about that?

 

[Joe Bryant]

He'll definitely come out now and he'll be a top ten pick. Is he worth it? I don't know.

He put on a heck of a show tonight, but we all knew he was a good runner. Whether or not he can stand in the pocket and go through progressions remains to be seen. He looked poised under pressure and he was pretty accurate, but Texas was doing a lot of gimmicky stuff that won't work on the NFL level.

I still think the best comparison for Young is Mike Vick. Vick had a similar ability to carry a team in college, but his shortcomings in the passing game have made him a frustrating pro QB. I suspect we might see the same thing with Young, although a lot of that will depend on supporting cast/coaching staff.

Mike Vick just wishes he was Vince Young. Young's passes were very accurate tonight, something Vick isn't.

Vick also led the nation in passing efficiency as a freshman, that doesn't mean Young will pass accurately in the NFL.

Danny Wuerffel was pretty good in college too.

With that said, you can't deny what Young has done. He's a fantastic talent.

J

 

[Joe Bryant]

Young is going to revolutionize the QB position in the NFL like no other QB before him.

Hi CE,In what way?

J

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Yes and no. First off, they only ran him 5-6 times a game, and a lot of those were short yardage/goal line carries. I'm thinking Young can run 8-10 times a game on designed bootlegs, QB draws, even option plays.

Last time i heard this kind of talk was re: Kordell Stewart.

Kordell has the speed and the moves, but he couldn't take a pounding like Vince Young can. He's built like a tree.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Yes and no.  First off, they only ran him 5-6 times a game, and a lot of those were short yardage/goal line carries.  I'm thinking Young can run 8-10 times a game on designed bootlegs, QB draws, even option plays.  Young is a VASTLY superior rusher to Culpepper.

Second, Culpepper had only missed 7 games in 5 seasons as a starter (played the full 16 games 3 times and 14 games another) prior to this year.  This year he was only averaging 3 rushes per game when he went down, so his most significant injury came in the season in which the Vikes were actually running him the least.

While he hasn't MISSED many games, his game has changed dramatically in the last two seasons. Three years ago, he played the entire year with (I forget exactly what) something like a strained ligaments in his knee, an injury suffered the year before. This caused him to radically alter his game from monster running QB.Rather than argue semantics, lets just say that Young will complete the revolution started by Culpepper. How about that?

Agreed. Although I suppose you could go back to Cunningham before Culpepper too.

 

[valhallan]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL? Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL? Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

 

[valhallan]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL? Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

Okie dokie, thanks NFL insider.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL? Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

Hi val,I don't guess anything is ever a certainty, but I'd be shocked to see him as anything other than an NFL QB. This isn't anything like a Matt Jones situation I don't believe.

J

 

[dgreen]

But, like I said, how's he going to learn more about being an NFL QB in college than in the NFL? I think his coaches are failing him more than anything. Atlanta needs an innovative offensive mind to figure out how to use Vick.

Sounds like they may try as the Falcons are not renewing the contract of their QB coach.

Maybe that will help. They just need somebody to create something completely new.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL?  Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

Okie dokie, thanks NFL insider.

I don't think you need to be an insider to say that moving Young to WR is an absurd proposition.

 

[stevec]

I thought Cunningham was the guy who did this revolutionary thing...Vick YpC: 7.05Cunningham YpC: 6.35Stewart YpC: 5.15Stewart's not close to the other 2, and has the worst TD-INT, and is pedestrian as a passer.When Vick slows down, his numbers will likely look a lot like Cunningham's rushing-wise. He's in a much better offensive system to flourish, although I guess one could call Buddy Ryan's offense the antithesis of a system - "Randall, make something happen."

 

[valhallan]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL? Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

Okie dokie, thanks NFL insider.

I don't think you need to be an insider to say that moving Young to WR is an absurd proposition.

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect. It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.Of course with this board being notorious for player stroking, I probably brought this up in the wrong place.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect. It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.

Of course with this board being notorious for player stroking, I probably brought this up in the wrong place.

Forget it.

 

[Shlon]

It's time someone said it. Vince Young is going to be the player in the NFL that all the Vick proponents & national media want Vick to be.

Here are each guy's last year in college regular season numbers:

Vick

Passing

87/161

1234 yds

8 TDs

6 INTs

54.0% comp

1.33 TD/INT

7.66 ypa

Rushing

104 rushes

617 yds

5.93 ypc

8 TDs

Young

Passing

182/285

2769 yds

26 TDs

10 INTs

63.9 % comp

2.6 TD/INT

9.72 ypa

Rushing

136 rushes

850 yds

6.25 ypc

9 TDs

Now we all know that college numbers don't directly translate into pro success. Vick is a mediocre NFL QB. While he is a threat with his legs, his arm doesn't scare anyone (except those who he may hit in the back of the helmet with his passes).

Young on the other hand has superior accuracy, makes better decisions, and arguably is a better runner than Vick. While Vick may have some shifty moves & imagination, Young shows patience & eats up ground at an incredible rate.

When Young comes out - I assume in the 2006 draft - he's going to make a lot of people downgrade Vick to the NFL QB he really is by simple comparison. Young is the complete package that Vick can only hope to be.

You should compare it to Vick's Freshman year (his best year & went to the national championship game) assing:

90/152

1840 yards

12 TD's

5 INT's

59.2% comp

2.4 TD/INT

12.11 ypa

Rushing:

108 rushes

585 yards

5.4 ypa

8 TD's

242.50 total yards per game. Led the Division I-A ranks in passing efficiency (180.37) & set the all-time freshman mark.

 

[stevec]

Regarding Young, we don't know if he can handle being under center. Same was pretty much true about Alex Smith, wasn't it? Playfakes are nice, and can be taught, but don't forget that a QB who can run like that is half of innate play action - since the way play action works is to make the defense respeect the run and respond to it. Great running QB's give you half that right off.Out of curiosity, does anyone think that Penn State's QB could play QB in the NFL?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Uhm, are we even sure he'll be a QB in the NFL?  Who's to say some coach or GM doesn't want to convert him to WR?

He'll be a QB.

Okie dokie, thanks NFL insider.

I don't think you need to be an insider to say that moving Young to WR is an absurd proposition.

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect. It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.Of course with this board being notorious for player stroking, I probably brought this up in the wrong place.

Hi val,I don't really agree with much of that but the one thing I will agree with (but that wasn't mentioned) is this: I do think NFL GMs are putting a lot of emphasis on last night's game for two reasons:

#1. That was the last time the world will see Vince Young throw a pass outside of one very controlled private workout until the draft. That was it.

#2. There is no way in the world to recreate the pressure that was on him and for that game and more importantly, that last drive. NFL GM's saw a player that was loose and calm and seemed entirely eager to hoist his team on his back and carry them to a gigantic win.

This is huge.

I don't think Vince Young will have any problem learning the footwork for dropping back or the moves in playfaking. That's easy. I don't like his throwing motion but I doubt they try to mess with it. What's not easy is the physical ability. What's even less easy than that is the demeanor he showed in carrying that team.

My .02

J

 

[P Boy]

Well let's see, he only takes snaps from the shotgun, his playfakes are atrocious, he can only handle a blitz by running up the middle, and his arm strength appears to be suspect.  It just seems like a lot of people are annointing him the next big thing based off one game against an average USC defense without taking into account how his skills may or may not translate into what NFL coaches want.

Holy crap! Normally I'd let something like this pass, but you do understand that Young has done something at the QB position that no other player in NCAA history has done, don't you? He passed for over 2500 yds while rushing for over 1000 yds in a single season - against some decent competition.He may flop in the pros - enough college studly QBs have, for sure - but geez, looking at your opinion I'd swear that Young is no better than a candidate for 3rd string QB at North Texas.Last time I saw, QBs took snaps from the shotgun in the NFL too. His playfakes were good enough to get almost the entire front 7 of USC leaning 2 steps the wrong way on a few plays - which accounted for some very easy yds running the opposite way after he made his progression of reads while rolling - and he sure didn't seem fazed by pocket pressure at all last night in a huge game. 40 throws & 0 sacks? And while he didn't need to throw the ball 50 yds downfield - he certainly picked apart the D in the short & midrange areas - something that works very well for a few coaches in the NFL these days.I'll be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see him play vs live bullets in the NFL & he proves otherwise.Jaded much? I'm hoping that you have a personal vendetta of some kind here rather than the alternative.

 

[babydemon90]

I think the David Carr era in Houston is over..... Young to Houston would sell out every game. Period. Gotta think that's gonna be a HUGE factor for them....this IS a business.

 

[Texasmouth]

Vince Young= VickLienart= PalmerWho do you choose? I think people are forgetting that Vick threw the ball pretty well in college. Vick has a big arm but his accuracy leaves a lot to be desired and before the switch the the WCO he was making some strides at QB. Vick is a playmaker, Vince Young is a playmaker. I think Young will be better than Vick. I think Lienart can be as good as Palmer or pretty close in the right situation. I guess it is a choice of if you want the traditional drop back passer or the high risk high reward playmaker. I think it would be cool if the Texans traded down to three, took Young and traded Carr. Vick in Houston would bring so much excitement they wouldn't know what to do and he doesn't need the same type line that a drop back passer needs. HOOK EM!

 

[dgreen]

I think the David Carr era in Houston is over..... Young to Houston would sell out every game. Period. Gotta think that's gonna be a HUGE factor for them....this IS a business.

Don't they already sell out every game? Do you think they wouldn't sell out if they drafted Bush?