Vincent Jackson - Great Chargers WR, or the Greatest? (1 Viewer)

[kevthegrad]

So Vincent Jackson has taken over as the #1 WR in San Diego according to news reports over the last few days.

I hoped this would happen and took a flyer picking him up in my dynasty league, so I'm thrilled. But what do you think this really means? Given Marty-ball and all that stuff, what kind of production can we expect out of Jackson with a full year as #1? He's 6'6 and looks like a beast...and developed a good rapport with Rivers when both were 2nd stringers. What do we think the future for him looks like as the #1 WR in San Diego?

 

[kevthegrad]

...I think with the obvious 60 catches (at least) that Tomlinson gets, and Antonio Gates....that I'd be happy with 65, 1000, 7 TD's The yardage might be off there. Maybe closer to 850.

 

[Banger]

He definitely got better as the year went on and was a decent deep threat but is still raw. The spiked fumble/forward pass, not getting his 2nd foot in in the NE game as well as some dropped passes show that he has room for improvement. He's a good deep ball threat and end zone target but I would also expect SD to either add another wr in the offseason for a #1/#2 role or try to address it early in the draft.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

...I think with the obvious 60 catches (at least) that Tomlinson gets, and Antonio Gates....that I'd be happy with 65, 1000, 7 TD's The yardage might be off there. Maybe closer to 850.

VJax has caught more than 3 balls per gameonly once in his career. I think he will be a solid WR in this league, but I will be surprised if he displaysthe consistancy to reach elite stud status.

 

[Gr00vus]

He definitely got better as the year went on and was a decent deep threat but is still raw. The spiked fumble/forward pass, not getting his 2nd foot in in the NE game as well as some dropped passes show that he has room for improvement. He's a good deep ball threat and end zone target but I would also expect SD to either add another wr in the offseason for a #1/#2 role or try to address it early in the draft.

I agree he has room for improvement, but I think he's on track to be the #1 receiver next year. Parker will still be there and Malcom Floyd who showed flashes in 2006 before getting injured. I'd be surprised if the Chargers attempt anything like a high profile WR acquisition either FA or draft. Their offense spreads the ball around quite a bit in the passing game which reduces the effect of any given WR and I think they're somewhat satisfied with what they have on the roster - maybe they add a stable vet to the mix if McCardell is done (I think he is), or they add a later round rookie if they see talent, but I think the money is going to go to other spots on the team that are more crucial.I like Jackson very much going into 2007, he just needs to up his mental game, everything else is there for him.

 

[zamboni]

I liken his situation to that in KC. Run-oriented offenses with a dominating RB and TE that are options 1 and 2 in the offense. That probably doesn't leave a ton left for the #1 WR.

Given that, I'd view his upside similar to that of Eddie Kennison, but VJ still has a lot to go just to reach Eddie's production.

 

[Gr00vus]

I liken his situation to that in KC. Run-oriented offenses with a dominating RB and TE that are options 1 and 2 in the offense. That probably doesn't leave a ton left for the #1 WR.Given that, I'd view his upside similar to that of Eddie Kennison, but VJ still has a lot to go just to reach Eddie's production.

Somewhat agree, but I think VJ has better wheels than Eddie ever did (I know Eddie was supposed to be a flyer coming out of college, but I never saw it in the pros). VJ habitually gets open behind everybody at least once a game, sometimes more. If he and Rivers convert those opportunities a bit more often (I expect them to beginning next season) I think he'll put up bigger numbers than Eddie due to the big plays. Also, unlike Eddie, VJ stays in in the redzone and is part of the goalline package, being a primary option on fade/jump ball routes in those situations, which will result in more TDs than Eddie.

 

[jonessed]

He definitely got better as the year went on and was a decent deep threat but is still raw. The spiked fumble/forward pass, not getting his 2nd foot in in the NE game as well as some dropped passes show that he has room for improvement. He's a good deep ball threat and end zone target but I would also expect SD to either add another wr in the offseason for a #1/#2 role or try to address it early in the draft.

:X He will be good in this offense if he can eliminate the mistakes (mostly dropped balls). I was pleasantly surprised at his route running. For a guy his size he has decent moves and can make space. SD will definitely be bringing someone else in to compete though. AJ likes to do things through the draft so I would expect it to come through there. Either way, it's really up to Jackson. The opportunity is there for him.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Vjax.

Will be over valued come draft time. Cause everyone will be thinking like the OP. Solid dynasty player, as his 08 season will be much better than his 07.

What Vinny really needs to do is stop jumping on passes he doesn't need to jump for, always seems to be in the air on the catch.

 

[Dope]

Just last week I traded VJ away for Hines Ward. Classic potential vs production.

I don't know what that says about either's value, but I think I did well there.

I love the upside of VJ. But it seems like there aren't enough balls to go around over in SD.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Just last week I traded VJ away for Hines Ward. Classic potential vs production.

No, that trade is more like highway robbery!!! You found a sucker would be the better way to put it.Vjax is nothing more than potential at this point. He has yet to even show that he can be a #2 NFL WR, let alone a #1. Everyone can be enamoured with his potential, but he has yet to do anything. He's got to be consistant and not just show flashes too...

 

[Dope]

Just last week I traded VJ away for Hines Ward. Classic potential vs production.

No, that trade is more like highway robbery!!! You found a sucker would be the better way to put it.Vjax is nothing more than potential at this point. He has yet to even show that he can be a #2 NFL WR, let alone a #1. Everyone can be enamoured with his potential, but he has yet to do anything. He's got to be consistant and not just show flashes too...

I wouldn't say Highway robbery. There are some signs that you could look at:Hines is getting older and Santonio Holmes could become the #1 (ala the Mark Clayton/Derrick Mason scenario)VJ has enormous upside....with defenses focusing on Antonio and LT, he may see a lot of single coverage. He's a beast. The upside being a top 12 WR is definitely possible.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

It's a rip deal.

Nothing from VJax has shown me

that he can be a top 12 WR..... nothing.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Just last week I traded VJ away for Hines Ward. Classic potential vs production.

No, that trade is more like highway robbery!!! You found a sucker would be the better way to put it.Vjax is nothing more than potential at this point. He has yet to even show that he can be a #2 NFL WR, let alone a #1. Everyone can be enamoured with his potential, but he has yet to do anything. He's got to be consistant and not just show flashes too...

I wouldn't say Highway robbery. There are some signs that you could look at:Hines is getting older and Santonio Holmes could become the #1 (ala the Mark Clayton/Derrick Mason scenario)VJ has enormous upside....with defenses focusing on Antonio and LT, he may see a lot of single coverage. He's a beast. The upside being a top 12 WR is definitely possible.

With all due respect, V. Jackson performed for what....less than a handful for games. Matter of fact, he never even went over 100 yards in any game, so saying he can be top 12 is more than outlandish IMO. They could easily draft a top prospect or sign a FA too. Before he's appointed stud status (top 12) he has to show that he can do it and do it on a consistant basis. Trading him, who is a prime suspect for the pure exmaple of "potential," for a WR who has performed at near top for the past 5yrs is highway robbery. No, you didn't trade away Lee Evans, it was Vincent Jackson. Hey, I don't blame you...I'd make that trade 1,00 times ove rif I were in your shoes. To talk about what someone might be...is just that...talk. Pure speculation on system and opportunity and it can all change in a flash because he's no locked in for anything. Rashaun Woods looked to be a in the same spot in SF, but what is he doing now?Pure and simple, Ward has done and talk that Holmes whould take over at the #1 spot is a Holmes owner talking. Ward is the real deal and thus...it's lopsided of a deal. Potential does not equal actual production, just ask the guy who wins each respective league.

 

[On The Rocks]

i think when we get to this time next year there will be more than a handful of people kicking themselves because they wanted him, but waited one round too long to take him.

 

[Dope]

I guess I was trying to be nice in case the other guy reads this (yay for me)

When talking about a guy like Vincent Jackson (or Santonio or Brandon Marshall or 100 other guys) there are always going to be a lot of "if's", "maybe's" and "i think's" peppered throughout the discussion.

I do agree that comparing Hines to VJ right now is pretty crazy. 2 years from now, it may (see there it is again) different...but who really knows. GB Hines.

 

[Bizkiteer]

i think when we get to this time next year there will be more than a handful of people kicking themselves because they wanted him, but waited one round too long to take him.

...and those who jumped on him way to early and expect better numbers due to his draft position.

 

[Bizkiteer]

I guess I was trying to be nice in case the other guy reads this (yay for me)When talking about a guy like Vincent Jackson (or Santonio or Brandon Marshall or 100 other guys) there are always going to be a lot of "if's", "maybe's" and "i think's" peppered throughout the discussion.I do agree that comparing Hines to VJ right now is pretty crazy. 2 years from now, it may (see there it is again) different...but who really knows. GB Hines.

Very well said...

 

[Sabertooth]

Too bad they don't play for 7 months. This might mean something otherwise

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I think VJ has better wheels than Eddie [Kennison] ever did . . .

Not a chance. Kennison won the NFL's fastest man competition. VJ has above average speed for a WR -- which is saying a heck of a lot given his size -- but he's nowhere near as fast as Kennison was.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Jackson is #1 right now by default. McCardell is done, and Parker is not a #1 WR.

Jackson did show good ability this season over the last five or six games. I do think he can handle the #1 job.

But the WR1 for the Chargers will not produce as well as the WR1 for most other teams. Gates and Tomlinson will probably be the leading receivers again next year. And Rivers spreads the ball around to the fifth and sixth targets pretty well.

I think Jackson will be a better NFL WR than a fantasy WR. Partially because of the offense he's in, and partially because they don't give fantasy points for blocking. With all due respect to Hines Ward, Jackson may be the best blocking WR in the league.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Jackson is #1 right now by default. McCardell is done, and Parker is not a #1 WR.Jackson did show good ability this season over the last five or six games. I do think he can handle the #1 job.But the WR1 for the Chargers will not produce as well as the WR1 for most other teams. Gates and Tomlinson will probably be the leading receivers again next year. And Rivers spreads the ball around to the fifth and sixth targets pretty well.I think Jackson will be a better NFL WR than a fantasy WR. Partially because of the offense he's in, and partially because they don't give fantasy points for blocking. With all due respect to Hines Ward, Jackson may be the best blocking WR in the league.

... a voice of reason. As I stated before, his body of work hasnot led me to believe he will be a FF stud.He has caught 3 balls tops per game,on one occasion he caught 5.This is during 2 seasons in the NFL.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think VJ has better wheels than Eddie [Kennison] ever did . . .

Not a chance. Kennison won the NFL's fastest man competition. VJ has above average speed for a WR -- which is saying a heck of a lot given his size -- but he's nowhere near as fast as Kennison was.

Like I said, I read all those reports but in game I never saw it - I guess his combine/straight line speed didn't translate to actual NFL game speed, wouldn't be the first time. I remember when he started out with the Rams, great pub but didn't show anything much on the field at game time. In game Jackson gets open deep in a way Kennison never really did, that's what I'm saying.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I think VJ has better wheels than Eddie [Kennison] ever did . . .

Not a chance. Kennison won the NFL's fastest man competition. VJ has above average speed for a WR -- which is saying a heck of a lot given his size -- but he's nowhere near as fast as Kennison was.

Like I said, I read all those reports but in game I never saw it - I guess his combine/straight line speed didn't translate to actual NFL game speed, wouldn't be the first time. I remember when he started out with the Rams, great pub but didn't show anything much on the field at game time. In game Jackson gets open deep in a way Kennison never really did, that's what I'm saying.

I think he was Offensive Rookie of the Year. He definitely had great speed. Nobody ever questioned that. He just couldn't run good patterns or catch the ball (after his rookie year).

 

[Gr00vus]

More to my point, in about half as many receptions (27 to 53), VJ had about half as many yards (453 to 860) and more touchdowns (6 to 5) than Kennison - this year. I'd expect VJ's receptions to go up this year likely breaking 50, with a subsequent increase in his numbers. He should put up stats like Reggie Brown did this year, making him a FF #2 WR.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Jackson is #1 right now by default. McCardell is done, and Parker is not a #1 WR.Jackson did show good ability this season over the last five or six games. I do think he can handle the #1 job.But the WR1 for the Chargers will not produce as well as the WR1 for most other teams. Gates and Tomlinson will probably be the leading receivers again next year. And Rivers spreads the ball around to the fifth and sixth targets pretty well.I think Jackson will be a better NFL WR than a fantasy WR. Partially because of the offense he's in, and partially because they don't give fantasy points for blocking. With all due respect to Hines Ward, Jackson may be the best blocking WR in the league.

... a voice of reason. As I stated before, his body of work hasnot led me to believe he will be a FF stud.He has caught 3 balls tops per game,on one occasion he caught 5.This is during 2 seasons in the NFL.

Joe Horn only had 18 receptions his first 3 seasons, and only 35 in his 4th.Mccardell put up 70-917-9 in 2005 with Brees at qb.He does have upside potential, but it's hard to know how high. I think he could be wr 3 material next season. Tomlinson won't be around forever, and until he is gone or is just average, no San Diego wr will be top 12. -I drafted him 430th overall in an IDP dynasty league in 2006, but he may never see my starting lineup because I am loaded at wr. He might be trade bait soon.

 

[Rick Blaine]

I don't think any of us are saying he's an instant fantasy stud. But I think the finer point here is that he will be finally entering the now infamous third year for wide receivers, and he'll probably be doing it as a starter. Everything he's done up to this point has been inside the two-year umbrella when few WR's make a name for themselves.

When we all talk about the convergence of talent + opportunity for dynasty purposes, that is the epitome of "opportunity". What he does with it in 2007 remains to be seen.

 

[On The Rocks]

i think when we get to this time next year there will be more than a handful of people kicking themselves because they wanted him, but waited one round too long to take him.

...and those who jumped on him way to early and expect better numbers due to his draft position.

and those that take him right where he should be taken.....(wherever that should happen to be)...will be bragging like like the braggarts they are right here in this thread.

 

[Gr00vus]

If you added up VJ and Keenan's stats this year (which is essentially how it played out re: the Chargers' #1 receiver) you get:

63/890/6

Which would lie somewhere in the 20's in this year's WR rankings.

#20 was Galloway with 54/939/6

#29 was Berrian with 50/758/6

For fun, Hines Ward (mentioned above) ended up at 23 with 69/924/6.

It may seem overly simplistic to just add up the two players' stats, but I think it's actually informative here as VJ took over the #1 role from Keenan in the last third of the season and came in in place of Keenan in many situations in the earlier part of the season. Also consider that even though it seems like a while ago in 2005 Keenan put up 70/917/9 as the Chargers' #1 WR. There's room for VJ to get opportunities and numbers in this offense.

I actually believe VJ will do a bit better than their combined numbers from this year (2006) next season when he has the role full time - but I'm bullish on him.

 

[SproutDaddy]

Jackson is #1 right now by default. McCardell is done, and Parker is not a #1 WR.Jackson did show good ability this season over the last five or six games. I do think he can handle the #1 job.But the WR1 for the Chargers will not produce as well as the WR1 for most other teams. Gates and Tomlinson will probably be the leading receivers again next year. And Rivers spreads the ball around to the fifth and sixth targets pretty well.I think Jackson will be a better NFL WR than a fantasy WR. Partially because of the offense he's in, and partially because they don't give fantasy points for blocking. With all due respect to Hines Ward, Jackson may be the best blocking WR in the league.

... a voice of reason. As I stated before, his body of work hasnot led me to believe he will be a FF stud.He has caught 3 balls tops per game,on one occasion he caught 5.This is during 2 seasons in the NFL.

I think he only played in one game last year due to injury. If you got to see this guy play towards the end of the year you had to see the ever growing potential in him. I don't recall CJ tearing it up his first few years in the league. I wouldn't rank him more than a WR3 going into the season, but I am sure he will outperform that.

 

[tommyGunZ]

VJax won't be among the top 10 in receptions or yards due to the offense he's in and Rivers' preference to hit the open man instead of forcing the ball to a particular guy. But due to his size and the Chargers "Gold Package", he's going to get lots of looks in the end zone. Assuming he progresses and avoids injury, I could see double digit TDs for Jackson in '07.

 

[Bizkiteer]

i think when we get to this time next year there will be more than a handful of people kicking themselves because they wanted him, but waited one round too long to take him.

...and those who jumped on him way to early and expect better numbers due to his draft position.

and those that take him right where he should be taken.....(wherever that should happen to be)...will be bragging like like the braggarts they are right here in this thread.

LOL, true! Remember every draft has to have at least one genius, depending on the number of owners....that number too.

 

[noneother]

i have been sitting on VJ for 2 years.... and do think he will have a chance to perform.. that said.. I also have Chad Johnson, Plaxico Burres, and Boldin .. Just in case.... lets see him do something "great" before we use the word to describe him

 

[CEO of the Barefoots]

I guess I was trying to be nice in case the other guy reads this (yay for me)When talking about a guy like Vincent Jackson (or Santonio or Brandon Marshall or 100 other guys) there are always going to be a lot of "if's", "maybe's" and "i think's" peppered throughout the discussion.I do agree that comparing Hines to VJ right now is pretty crazy. 2 years from now, it may (see there it is again) different...but who really knows. GB Hines.

Thank you for sparing my feelings dope and while I agree that you gained immdeiate value for VJ in the trade. I factored in the fact that VJ does have great potential, is 7 years younger, playing for a great offense (Marty Ball notwithstanding) and that my depth in the last year did not allow me to start Hines Ward once.The size, speed and one on one coverage makes the potential of VJ enticing and hence I gambled on his future. I do not see this as a sure thing but merely a gamble worth taking.

 

[Dope]

I guess I was trying to be nice in case the other guy reads this (yay for me)When talking about a guy like Vincent Jackson (or Santonio or Brandon Marshall or 100 other guys) there are always going to be a lot of "if's", "maybe's" and "i think's" peppered throughout the discussion.I do agree that comparing Hines to VJ right now is pretty crazy. 2 years from now, it may (see there it is again) different...but who really knows. GB Hines.

Thank you for sparing my feelings dope and while I agree that you gained immdeiate value for VJ in the trade. I factored in the fact that VJ does have great potential, is 7 years younger, playing for a great offense (Marty Ball notwithstanding) and that my depth in the last year did not allow me to start Hines Ward once.The size, speed and one on one coverage makes the potential of VJ enticing and hence I gambled on his future. I do not see this as a sure thing but merely a gamble worth taking.

 

[Keg]

i did the following trade Aug 21, 2006(16 team league with 35 man rosters and 12 DTS spots)

I gave up: LJ Smith

I got:

Vincent Jackson(DTS)

Josh Scobee(DTS)

Mathias Kiwanuka(DTS)

2007 3rd rounder

2007 5th rounder

*I also had Winslow and was in the beginning stages of a massive tear down and rebuild

 

[Bull Dozier]

Mccardell put up 70-917-9 in 2005 with Brees at qb.

He does have upside potential, but it's hard to know how high. I think he could be wr 3 material next season. Tomlinson won't be around forever, and until he is gone or is just average, no San Diego wr will be top 12.

-I drafted him 430th overall in an IDP dynasty league in 2006, but he may never see my starting lineup because I am loaded at wr. He might be trade bait soon.

This was the 2nd highest WR FF point total in the history of Martyball. The only WR to put up more points for a Shottenheimer coached team was Andre Rison's 1092 yards and 7 TDs for KC in '97. Add into the fact that Gates has put up 3 of the top four overall reciever seasons for Shottenheimer ever, Gates and Shottenheimer are the bigger threats to limit Jackson's ceiling. Shottenheimer will be gone earlier, but having a premier tight end and a stud RB limits what a WR can do fantasy wise.

 

[Bri]

So Vincent Jackson has taken over as the #1 WR in San Diego according to news reports over the last few days.

Keenan is a FA, way to earn it Vincent

 

[Gr00vus]

So Vincent Jackson has taken over as the #1 WR in San Diego according to news reports over the last few days.

Keenan is a FA, way to earn it Vincent

priceless

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

So Vincent Jackson has taken over as the #1 WR in San Diego according to news reports over the last few days.

Keenan is a FA, way to earn it Vincent

Keenan has a year left on his contract. Doesn't matter, though. VJ is better at this point and I'd expect Keenan to be cut since he's no longer starter material and he doesn't play special teams.

 

[Gr00vus]

By the way VJ was ranked:

30 33 2 27

for WR the last 4 games of the year.

 

[Bri]

So Vincent Jackson has taken over as the #1 WR in San Diego according to news reports over the last few days.

Keenan is a FA, way to earn it Vincent

Keenan has a year left on his contract. Doesn't matter, though. VJ is better at this point and I'd expect Keenan to be cut since he's no longer starter material and he doesn't play special teams.

I just saw him on a FA list yesterday

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

So Vincent Jackson has taken over as the #1 WR in San Diego according to news reports over the last few days.

Keenan is a FA, way to earn it Vincent

Keenan has a year left on his contract. Doesn't matter, though. VJ is better at this point and I'd expect Keenan to be cut since he's no longer starter material and he doesn't play special teams.

I just saw him on a FA list yesterday

The list was wrong.

 

[Bri]

So Vincent Jackson has taken over as the #1 WR in San Diego according to news reports over the last few days.

Keenan is a FA, way to earn it Vincent

Keenan has a year left on his contract. Doesn't matter, though. VJ is better at this point and I'd expect Keenan to be cut since he's no longer starter material and he doesn't play special teams.

I just saw him on a FA list yesterday

The list was wrong.

hmmm OKFWIW

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/nfl/freeagentsWR.html

 

[kevthegrad]

Well, with old man McCardell going the way of the Bledsoe today, I thought I'd bring this thread back.

With all the change in San Diego it's tough to project what we'll get out of the team this year other than lots and lots of L.T.

So with all that L.T., what's left for Gates and the apparent new #1 WR, Vincent Jackson?

 

[derek19]

I drafted Vinny Jackson last year in a new dynasty league hoping this would happen. Also last year, before the start of the season i traded Javon Walker for Vinny Jackson and Braylon Edwards. Still waiting to see how it turns out for me since Javon blew it up last year......

Go Niners!

 

[oukurt]

Like many, I stashed him away in every league I could a couple of years ago. If his mental game catches up with his physical potential, it could be a very nice payoff.

I will predict 900 yards and 7 touchdowns.

 

[oukurt]

i did the following trade Aug 21, 2006(16 team league with 35 man rosters and 12 DTS spots)I gave up: LJ SmithI got: Vincent Jackson(DTS)Josh Scobee(DTS)Mathias Kiwanuka(DTS)2007 3rd rounder2007 5th rounder*I also had Winslow and was in the beginning stages of a massive tear down and rebuild

Really? That is so awesome!

 

[citsalp]

I don't think any of us are saying he's an instant fantasy stud. But I think the finer point here is that he will be finally entering the now infamous third year for wide receivers, and he'll probably be doing it as a starter. Everything he's done up to this point has been inside the two-year umbrella when few WR's make a name for themselves.When we all talk about the convergence of talent + opportunity for dynasty purposes, that is the epitome of "opportunity". What he does with it in 2007 remains to be seen.

 

[C Boswell]

yea, I drafted him in 2 leagues when he was a rookie!!! going to pay off this year and definitely the year after.