Visanthe Shiancoe...Going up or Down? (1 Viewer)

[lowman2]

Shiancoe is being drafted around TE 13 before today, whats your opinion on him moving up or down since Farve loves the TE?

 

[CentralPA]

I say he's defintely bumped up higher than 13th now. They are still a run oriented team but you can't ignore that Farve checks down to the TE plenty.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

I think Bubba Franks and Dustin Keller would say up.

 

[24seven]

up :(

 

[Tanner9919]

at TE #!3, he's probably the most underrated TE in the NFL

his stock goes up drastically with the arrival of Favre..

 

[ScottyFargo]

at TE #!3, he's probably the most underrated TE in the NFL his stock goes up drastically with the arrival of Favre..

 

[Black]

I like him because he adds another guy in the mid-tiers...maybe Tier 2?

Shiancoe, Visanthe MIN TE....?

1

Witten, Jason DAL TE

Gates, Antonio SDC TE

Gonzalez, Tony ATL TE

Clark, Dallas IND TE

2

Olsen, Greg CHI TE

Winslow, Kellen TBB TE

Cooley, Chris WAS TE

Daniels, Owen HOU TE

3

Carlson, John SEA TE

Keller, Dustin NYJ TE

Miller, Zach OAK TE

 

[lowman2]

I like him because he adds another guy in the mid-tiers...maybe Tier 2?

Shiancoe, Visanthe MIN TE....?

1

Witten, Jason DAL TE

Gates, Antonio SDC TE

Gonzalez, Tony ATL TE

Clark, Dallas IND TE

2

Olsen, Greg CHI TE

Winslow, Kellen TBB TE

Cooley, Chris WAS TE

Daniels, Owen HOU TE

3

Carlson, John SEA TE

Keller, Dustin NYJ TE

Miller, Zach OAK TE

I think you slide him between Owen Daniels and Chris Cooley. These next two preseason games are going to be very interesting..

 

[travdogg]

I like him because he adds another guy in the mid-tiers...maybe Tier 2?

Shiancoe, Visanthe MIN TE....?

1

Witten, Jason DAL TE

Gates, Antonio SDC TE

Gonzalez, Tony ATL TE

Clark, Dallas IND TE

2

Olsen, Greg CHI TE

Winslow, Kellen TBB TE

Cooley, Chris WAS TE

Daniels, Owen HOU TE

3

Carlson, John SEA TE

Keller, Dustin NYJ TE

Miller, Zach OAK TE

I don't care who Shiancoe has throwing to him, I'm not taking him with the likes of Cooley and Daniels or even Miller.Favre doesn't lock on to the TE near as much as what's being suggested. I thought TE13 was too high before, and really, it still is. If you want a TE based on who his QB is in that 10-15 range, then take Jeremy Shockey.

 

[Art_VanDalay]

Trav Dog I think you are missing the boat on this one... Shiancoe finished #5 in 2008 with 95 pts (6 TDs/1 - 10 yds) and that was with Frerotten and Train Rex at QB. The guy has worked hard at improving his game the last couple of years and this offseason and is really ready to emerge. Couple that with Favre at QB and I just don't see how he can't do the same or better than his #5 finish last year. As far as Favre looking for the TE, I can't accept that argument, even recently. When you look at his entire career, he has made stars out of guys with less talent than Shiancoe. Every team Favre has ever played on, the TE has produced - (See Chmura, K. Jackson, Franks, Lee, Keller (#14 in 2008 as a Rookie)). In my mind, we as FF players need to spend less time on focusing on the previous year's performance and speculate a little more on what may happen this year, somewhat independent of last year's results. With that in mind, here is my Top #10 for 2009 at the TE position:

Tier 1:

1 Gates

2 Witten

Tier 2:

3 Shiancoe

4 Olsen

5 Daniels

6 Gonzalez

Tier 3:

7 Winslow

8 Cooley

9 Clark

10 Carlson

Thoughts?

 

[travdogg]

Trav Dog I think you are missing the boat on this one... Shiancoe finished #5 in 2008 with 95 pts (6 TDs/1 - 10 yds) and that was with Frerotten and Train Rex at QB. The guy has worked hard at improving his game the last couple of years and this offseason and is really ready to emerge. Couple that with Favre at QB and I just don't see how he can't do the same or better than his #5 finish last year. As far as Favre looking for the TE, I can't accept that argument, even recently. When you look at his entire career, he has made stars out of guys with less talent than Shiancoe. Every team Favre has ever played on, the TE has produced - (See Chmura, K. Jackson, Franks, Lee, Keller (#14 in 2008 as a Rookie)). In my mind, we as FF players need to spend less time on focusing on the previous year's performance and speculate a little more on what may happen this year, somewhat independent of last year's results. With that in mind, here is my Top #10 for 2009 at the TE position: Tier 1:1 Gates2 WittenTier 2:3 Shiancoe4 Olsen5 Daniels6 GonzalezTier 3:7 Winslow8 Cooley9 Clark10 CarlsonThoughts?

WOW! I imagine you'll have Shiancoe on any team you draft.I think the situation is different in Minnesota than last year, and frankly I don't think Sciancoe is all that talented.His year last year was really overvalued based on his monster game against Atlanta. This year Berrian could see more catches(maybe?) Rice certainly will see more work(at least twice what he got last year) and Harvin will be extremely busy. I actually think Harvin is going to lead the team in catches.I just don't find 500-7 to have been all that great. Yes it finished 5th, but I think that is Shiancoe's ceiling. I could easily see him finishing with fewer than 7 scores. I really see him as a somewhat above average TE2.Also, those TE's you listed, really only Chmura was ever a top TE. Nobody in last year was thrilled about starting Keller and nobody was thrilled to be starting Lee in 07'. I just don't see why Favre will make an elite TE out of a non-elite talent.I'd rank the TE's:Tier 11.Clark(if healthy)2.WittenTier 23.Gates4.Gonzalez5.Z.Miller(I'm probably leading that bandwagon)6.Olsen7.Keller8.DanielsTier 39.Winslow10.Shockey11.Cooley12.CelekTier 413.Carlson14.Shiancoe15.Davis

 

[Art_VanDalay]

Hmm... looks like you have feelings about Zack Miller similar to what I see for Shiancoe. I hear your mention of the wideouts but you I would make two points. First, you have to factor in Favre's shoulder and age. If you have seen him the past two years, he doesn't throw the out like he used to and most of his interceptions happen outside the hashes. This is another reason why the easier throw for him will be to thread the needle between the hash to Shiancoe and on crossing routes to a guy like Rice or Harvin. Berrian is in trouble with the deep go routes because I don't think Favre will be reaching him as the season goes on. My second disagreeement with you is that you essentially are not giving Shiancoe any lift at all for working with Favre. I just can't see that, based on your argument, Favre would bring down his numbers when he did it last year with below average QBs. I agree he isn't the most talented but he has enough talent, speed and hands to have a very good season. I realize my list is outside the box of the common rankings and magazines but that is how I roll since I have yet to look at any rankings, magazine, etc., that ever gets it all right so clearly we are all surprised by the year end results every year and this year will be no different. Lastly, as for "none of his other TE's really putting up big numbers," sign me up for Keith Jackson in 1996:

1996 Green Bay Packers 505 12.6 10

 

[Yellow Line is Unoffcial]

Kieth Jackson

Mark Chimura

Bubba Franks

Dustin Keller

Favre is the best thing that could happen to Shiancoe. Favre loves TEs in the redzone.

 

[meatwad1]

The real issue is not how far Shiancoe goes up, he will be top ten no problem, but how far Adrian (Rock Hands) Peterson goes down.

With Favre, bump up

Shiancoe

C.Taylor

Berrian

Rice

Longwell

Bump down

Peterson

PH

Rosnefels/TJ

 

[Crippler]

The real issue is not how far Shiancoe goes up, he will be top ten no problem, but how far Adrian (Rock Hands) Peterson goes down.With Favre, bump up Shiancoe C.Taylor Berrian Rice LongwellBump down Peterson PH Rosnefels/TJ

I disagree this this. I think Peterson could have chance at 20 plus TD's and his other stats might increase also with better YPC. Maybe slightly less touches but I eee him as easy #1 and I dont own him in any league unfortunately. I think Longwell goes down with xpoints over FG's

 

[Yellow Line is Unoffcial]

The real issue is not how far Shiancoe goes up, he will be top ten no problem, but how far Adrian (Rock Hands) Peterson goes down.With Favre, bump up Shiancoe C.Taylor Berrian Rice LongwellBump down Peterson PH Rosnefels/TJ

Peterson down????Dorsey LevinsRyan GrantThomas JonesFavre makes ADP the clear cut #1

 

[lyon812]

I'm puzzled by the mention of Franks.

34-363-1

36-322-9

54-442-7

30-241-4

34-361-7

25-207-1

25-232-0

18-132-3

Aside from three years of solid TD production, his yardage and receptions have been paltry. Just because Favre likes the TE in the red zone doesn't mean that Shiancoe's going to improve upon 42-596-7.

 

[Yellow Line is Unoffcial]

I'm puzzled by the mention of Franks. 34-363-136-322-954-442-730-241-434-361-725-207-125-232-018-132-3Aside from three years of solid TD production, his yardage and receptions have been paltry. Just because Favre likes the TE in the red zone doesn't mean that Shiancoe's going to improve upon 42-596-7.

I'm puzzled by the statement other the three years of solid TD production.....Other that DWills two 4 TD games he was fairly average last year

 

[lyon812]

I'm puzzled by the mention of Franks. 34-363-136-322-954-442-730-241-434-361-725-207-125-232-018-132-3Aside from three years of solid TD production, his yardage and receptions have been paltry. Just because Favre likes the TE in the red zone doesn't mean that Shiancoe's going to improve upon 42-596-7.

I'm puzzled by the statement other the three years of solid TD production.....Other that DWills two 4 TD games he was fairly average last year

I'll clarify:Years with a significant amount of receptions: 1/8Years with 500+ yards receiving: 0/8Years with solid TD production: 3/8How does any of that suggest that over the last decade of his career, Favre has been a heavy utilizer of his TE? Likewise, how does it suggest that Shiancoe's numbers will improve?

 

[stuckinthemuck]

Peterson down????Dorsey LevinsRyan GrantThomas JonesFavre makes ADP the clear cut #1

Exactly...if a bit off topic from the original post...Favre's greatest impact will be on the running game. I'd take this one step further to put Chester Taylor into the "better than your average handcuff" category too. 24 total TD's between the two of them is not out of the question anymore, maybe 18 for AP and 6 for Chester.

 

[Billy1x]

Shiancoe is being drafted around TE 13 before today, whats your opinion on him moving up or down since Farve loves the TE?

I hear this all the time. QBs do not love or hate TEs. It has more to do with the play calling and the coaches game plan. IMO-He should do better with more accurate and timely passing (and 2 or 3 more TDs)

 

[ScottyFargo]

vshiancoeThe TE is one of his favorite targets.. Time for me to put in even more work in the film room, ball drills and weight room

http://twitter.com/vshiancoe

 

[Sabertooth]

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I think you can bump him up slightly, but I also think some people are going a little overboard. If you had him at No. 13 yesterday, Farve isn't going to make him a top 5 TE now.

I have Shiancoe in the 8 to 10 range.

 

[menobrown]

I have ranked about right were he is because I don't see a size able jump in targets when the team added Harvin and has a healthy Sidney Rice. I see him as the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game on a run oriented team.

 

[IHEARTFF]

I think you can bump him up slightly, but I also think some people are going a little overboard. If you had him at No. 13 yesterday, Farve isn't going to make him a top 5 TE now.I have Shiancoe in the 8 to 10 range.

I have ranked about right were he is because I don't see a size able jump in targets when the team added Harvin and has a healthy Sidney Rice. I see him as the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game on a run oriented team.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Will the Vikings be passing more with Favre than Rosenfels/Jackson? I think to the tune of an addition 20-40 yards per game, at minimum. I am not at all concerned about the # of targets competing, the TE will get his dump offs and check downs, and Shiancoe will get plenty of RZ targets as well.

 

[TheFanatic]

Shiancoe finished 5th last year in my non PPR league with nobody at QB. How is it that we are looking at Favre going there as being a downgrade to Shiancoe? I say the guy is top 5 again at TE in non PPR's. No idea where he finished in PPR's.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

I could see Shiancoe making the Pro Bowl next season with Favre at QB. Favre LOVES throwing to his TE - especially in the Red Zone. He made Bubba Franks a player, made Donald Lee relevant for a season and helped Keller have a good rookie year in 2008. Shiancoe could very well be the next TE who's production improves because he has Favre at QB (not to mention the fact the Vikings have little else in their passing game to utilize given their suspect WR corps).

Fantasy rankings for TE with Favre . . .1992 Jackie Harris 51993 Jackie Harris 81994 Ed West 161995 Mark Chmura 21996 Keith Jackson 41997 Mark Chmura 81998 Mark Chmura 8, Tyrone Davis 121999 Tyronne Davis 282000 Bubba Franks 222001 Bubba Franks 62002 Bubba Franks 42003 Bubba Franks 202004 Bubba Franks 102005 Donald Lee 252006 David Martin 342007 Donald Lee 92008 Dustin Keller 14

 

[TheFanatic]

I could see Shiancoe making the Pro Bowl next season with Favre at QB. Favre LOVES throwing to his TE - especially in the Red Zone. He made Bubba Franks a player, made Donald Lee relevant for a season and helped Keller have a good rookie year in 2008. Shiancoe could very well be the next TE who's production improves because he has Favre at QB (not to mention the fact the Vikings have little else in their passing game to utilize given their suspect WR corps).

Fantasy rankings for TE with Favre . . .1992 Jackie Harris 51993 Jackie Harris 81994 Ed West 161995 Mark Chmura 21996 Keith Jackson 41997 Mark Chmura 81998 Mark Chmura 8, Tyrone Davis 121999 Tyronne Davis 282000 Bubba Franks 222001 Bubba Franks 62002 Bubba Franks 42003 Bubba Franks 202004 Bubba Franks 102005 Donald Lee 252006 David Martin 342007 Donald Lee 92008 Dustin Keller 14

So basically when Favre has had a TE with some talent that TE generally finishes in the top 10. When he doesn't have talent, or Favre doesn't know the offense (Keller) they don't finish top 10.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Kind of glib to say that every time he didn't have a top 10 TE it was because the TE "didn't have talent," don't you think?

Favre + Shiancoe is the same as most QB/TE combos - the TE is only a good starter for you if he's scoring touchdowns. If, in your opinion, Favre's arrival means a lot more TE touchdowns for Shiancoe it makes sense to rate him highly. I think there won't be as many passing TDs going around as those seasons when Favre had a fantasy TE ranked higher than 8th, and I definitely see no case for boosting Shiancoe above the TEs I think will get 70+ catches.

 

[Banger]

What I'm hoping is that he moves up the board and lets a better TE drop to me. Even though he finished 5th last year, he was on no ones board there. He was actually ranked around 13-14th despite the top 5 finish last year. This may push him up to the 7-8 spot which means a Cooley, Daniels might be pushed down.

 

[ScottyFargo]

I could see Shiancoe making the Pro Bowl next season with Favre at QB. Favre LOVES throwing to his TE - especially in the Red Zone. He made Bubba Franks a player, made Donald Lee relevant for a season and helped Keller have a good rookie year in 2008. Shiancoe could very well be the next TE who's production improves because he has Favre at QB (not to mention the fact the Vikings have little else in their passing game to utilize given their suspect WR corps).

Fantasy rankings for TE with Favre . . .1992 Jackie Harris 51993 Jackie Harris 81994 Ed West 161995 Mark Chmura 21996 Keith Jackson 41997 Mark Chmura 81998 Mark Chmura 8, Tyrone Davis 121999 Tyronne Davis 282000 Bubba Franks 222001 Bubba Franks 62002 Bubba Franks 42003 Bubba Franks 202004 Bubba Franks 102005 Donald Lee 252006 David Martin 342007 Donald Lee 92008 Dustin Keller 14

So basically when Favre has had a TE with some talent that TE generally finishes in the top 10. When he doesn't have talent, or Favre doesn't know the offense (Keller) they don't finish top 10.

 

[Instinctive]

I agree that Favre making his TEs significantly better is a myth.

And now that Shilens is out.......Zach Miller screams value, especially in PPR