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Vishante Shincoe to play for Shockey (1 Viewer)

Thumper

Footballguy
What do you think of Shincoe this week vs Oakland? Bad weather is expected which will help the running game and the short passing game. I think Shincoe is a solid play this week.Any thoughts?

 
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Islander

Footballguy
I don't think replacing a good TE by a backup TE has the same result as when a great RB behind a great O-Line is replaced by a backup RB. Many times the RB will do well and that's mostly due to the O-Line. For TEs it's not the same at all. Even if it rains, I would not start Shiancoe ahead of TEs like Cooley, H Miller, McMichael, Wiggins, J Stevens, LJ Smith, etc.

 
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Thumper

Footballguy
I don't think replacing a good TE by a backup TE has the same result as when a great RB behind a great O-Line is replaced by a backup RB. Many times the RB will do well and that's mostly due to the O-Line. For TEs it's not the same at all.

Even if it rains, I would not start Shincoe ahead of TEs like Cooley, H Miller, McMichael, Wiggins, J Stevens, LJ Smith, etc.
I can start him or Ben Watson. I fear that Watson might not play much at all.
 

Bri

Footballguy
I'm excited to see him. When he was drafted, he was all the talk in NY and how the Giants got the steal of the draft. Well that was about it for him, ya never really hear about him. Real curious, something to watch in week 17.BTW I think there's an A in his name Shiancoe

 
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gbill2004

Footballguy
I don't think replacing a good TE by a backup TE has the same result as when a great RB behind a great O-Line is replaced by a backup RB. Many times the RB will do well and that's mostly due to the O-Line. For TEs it's not the same at all.

Even if it rains, I would not start Shincoe ahead of TEs like Cooley, H Miller, McMichael, Wiggins, J Stevens, LJ Smith, etc.
How about over Fletcher?
 

Thumper

Footballguy
I don't think replacing a good TE by a backup TE has the same result as when a great RB behind a great O-Line is replaced by a backup RB. Many times the RB will do well and that's mostly due to the O-Line. For TEs it's not the same at all.

Even if it rains, I would not start Shincoe ahead of TEs like Cooley, H Miller, McMichael, Wiggins, J Stevens, LJ Smith, etc.
How about over Fletcher?
OOP's I still think he is a very good play this weekend. Does anyone agree?
 

Holy Schneikes

Footballguy
He's a flyer for sure, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him put up some numbers this week.Shiancoe has ridiculous measurables, and he hasn't looked bad at all when he's been in there.

 

gbill2004

Footballguy
He's a flyer for sure, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him put up some numbers this week.

Shiancoe has ridiculous measurables, and he hasn't looked bad at all when he's been in there.
Can he catch though, or is he more of a blocking TE? I need to decide between Fletcher (Ind) or Shiancoe (NYG).
 

Thumper

Footballguy
He's a flyer for sure, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him put up some numbers this week.

Shiancoe has ridiculous measurables, and he hasn't looked bad at all when he's been in there.
Can he catch though, or is he more of a blocking TE? I need to decide between Fletcher (Ind) or Shiancoe (NYG).
I'm not a big fan of Fletcher.
 

Holy Schneikes

Footballguy
He's a flyer for sure, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him put up some numbers this week.

Shiancoe has ridiculous measurables, and he hasn't looked bad at all when he's been in there.
Can he catch though, or is he more of a blocking TE? I need to decide between Fletcher (Ind) or Shiancoe (NYG).
I don't think he was drafted to block exclusively - he was definitely touted as a potential receiving threat. As to whether he has done anything with that potential, it's hard to say when he plays behind Shockey.
 

Yenrub

Footballguy
He's a flyer for sure, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him put up some numbers this week.

Shiancoe has ridiculous measurables, and he hasn't looked bad at all when he's been in there.
Can he catch though, or is he more of a blocking TE? I need to decide between Fletcher (Ind) or Shiancoe (NYG).
More of a receiever. He did pretty good last week after Shockey got hurt. 4 catches
 

pghrob

Hail to the Chief
He's a flyer for sure, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him put up some numbers this week.

Shiancoe has ridiculous measurables, and he hasn't looked bad at all when he's been in there.
Can he catch though, or is he more of a blocking TE? I need to decide between Fletcher (Ind) or Shiancoe (NYG).
More of a receiever. He did pretty good last week after Shockey got hurt. 4 catches
Ditto that, he looked good last week in relief of Shockey.
 

Islander

Footballguy
I don't think replacing a good TE by a backup TE has the same result as when a great RB behind a great O-Line is replaced by a backup RB.  Many times the RB will do well and that's mostly due to the O-Line.  For TEs it's not the same at all. 

Even if it rains, I would not start Shincoe ahead of TEs like Cooley, H Miller, McMichael, Wiggins, J Stevens, LJ Smith, etc.
How about over Fletcher?
Fletcher is no more a regular starter than Shiancoe, so in that case, I would go with Shiancoe. I was initially comparing Shiancoe to established TEs.
 

Tick

Footballguy
Shiancoe has produced every time he's been given a chance. I'd start him over non-top-12 TEs.

 

Islander

Footballguy
Shiancoe has produced every time he's been given a chance.  I'd start him over non-top-12 TEs.
Would you consider Ben Watson a top 12 TE?
Watson is a starter, but splits time with Graham. I would prefer Shiancoe who will share as much as Watson.Watson ranks 15th TE on a PPG basis.

 

Thumper

Footballguy
Shiancoe has produced every time he's been given a chance. I'd start him over non-top-12 TEs.
Would you consider Ben Watson a top 12 TE?
Watson is a starter, but splits time with Graham. I would prefer Shiancoe who will share as much as Watson.Watson ranks 15th TE on a PPG basis.
After looking st some stats I feel Shiancoe is a very solid play. Maybe a top 5 te this week.
 

Islander

Footballguy
Shiancoe has produced every time he's been given a chance.  I'd start him over non-top-12 TEs.
Would you consider Ben Watson a top 12 TE?
Watson is a starter, but splits time with Graham. I would prefer Shiancoe who will share as much as Watson.Watson ranks 15th TE on a PPG basis.
After looking st some stats I feel Shiancoe is a very solid play. Maybe a top 5 te this week.
Top 5 is waaaaay too optimistic. There is no chance in hell I would put him ahead of established guys like Gates, Tony G, Heap, Crumpler, Witten, Cooley, McMichael this week. I would say 8th TE at best.
 

Bri

Footballguy
Shiancoe has produced every time he's been given a chance.  I'd start him over non-top-12 TEs.
Would you consider Ben Watson a top 12 TE?
Watson is a starter, but splits time with Graham. I would prefer Shiancoe who will share as much as Watson.Watson ranks 15th TE on a PPG basis.
After looking st some stats I feel Shiancoe is a very solid play. Maybe a top 5 te this week.
Top 5 is waaaaay too optimistic. There is no chance in hell I would put him ahead of established guys like Gates, Tony G, Heap, Crumpler, Witten, Cooley, McMichael this week. I would say 8th TE at best.
it could happen. Giants offense goes thru the TE this year. IE Shockey is passing option #1. Opportunity wise it's a strong play IMO. I wouldn't bother comparing careers or talent but....
 

Islander

Footballguy
Shiancoe has produced every time he's been given a chance.  I'd start him over non-top-12 TEs.
Would you consider Ben Watson a top 12 TE?
Watson is a starter, but splits time with Graham. I would prefer Shiancoe who will share as much as Watson.Watson ranks 15th TE on a PPG basis.
After looking st some stats I feel Shiancoe is a very solid play. Maybe a top 5 te this week.
Top 5 is waaaaay too optimistic. There is no chance in hell I would put him ahead of established guys like Gates, Tony G, Heap, Crumpler, Witten, Cooley, McMichael this week. I would say 8th TE at best.
it could happen. Giants offense goes thru the TE this year. IE Shockey is passing option #1. Opportunity wise it's a strong play IMO. I wouldn't bother comparing careers or talent but....
Of course it could happen. Any player has a chance to beat any other player on any particular week. That does not mean their expected score is higher though.Boller can beat P Manning 1-2 times during the season. But every week, P Manning's expected score is higher.

 

lefteye

Footballguy
Shiancoe has produced every time he's been given a chance. I'd start him over non-top-12 TEs.
Would you consider Ben Watson a top 12 TE?
Watson is a starter, but splits time with Graham. I would prefer Shiancoe who will share as much as Watson.Watson ranks 15th TE on a PPG basis.
After looking st some stats I feel Shiancoe is a very solid play. Maybe a top 5 te this week.
Top 5 is waaaaay too optimistic. There is no chance in hell I would put him ahead of established guys like Gates, Tony G, Heap, Crumpler, Witten, Cooley, McMichael this week. I would say 8th TE at best.
it could happen. Giants offense goes thru the TE this year. IE Shockey is passing option #1. Opportunity wise it's a strong play IMO. I wouldn't bother comparing careers or talent but....
I don't know what Giants offense your watching, the team that I watch week in and week out, their offense goes thru Tiki Barber. Plax is the 2nd option. Shockey is the 3rd option and he's been injured the last 4 weeks. Furthermore, Shiancoe has stone hands. IMHO, this is the worst call ever.

I hope I'm wrong and have to eat my words. Nothing would make me happier than the Gmen lighting up Kerry Collins and the raiders to get a playoff home game.

 

Bri

Footballguy
IMHO, this is the worst call ever.
please reread what I wrote. I didn't emphatically say Visanthe would be great this week or anything. It could happen and spoke about opportunity, that's all. As far as I know, the guy started once and then Rivers took over. He had but one catch IIRC.Opportunity is so key in FF, I believe the original post said something like no wwwwwayyy this will happen or somesuch. I didn't think it was THAT far fetched is all.
 

Bri

Footballguy
I don't know what Giants offense your watching, the team that I watch week in and week out, their offense goes thru Tiki Barber.
Then you don't watch them everyweek because they've said it quite a few times during the games. Do you have the volume off? Do some reading on the web at giants.com or search google. Heck search here, it's been brought up here too
 

gbill2004

Footballguy
Please define exactly what "going through the offense" means, i.e. "the offense goes through {insert player name here}".

 

Thumper

Footballguy
I might as well play him over Dallas clark :boxing: at least he has a chance to play the whole game
I think top 5 is realistic this week. 1/The Giants have thrown quite a bit to the te this year 2/ When Shockey came out of the game in the second half last week he had 40 yds on 4 catches. 3/ The game is going to be played in bad weather conditions which would take away P.Burress and the long game. I look for a ton of passes underneath and Tiki Barber to carry the load.
 

Bri

Footballguy
Please define exactly what "going through the offense" means, i.e. "the offense goes through {insert player name here}".
Passing game first option might be WR 1, next WR 2, next TE, next RB etc. A QB's "checkdowns"G-men have been using Shockey as the first option since sometime in preseason. As I mentioned, they've said it several times during games this year. Basically every team's DB plays off of Plaxico which also gives them an extra step toward stopping the run+makes it harder to block. Hufnagel's O has been called "East coast offense" and yeah that phrase is annoying. Anyhow, he, Gilbride, and Coughlin all believe in the deep game. Hufnagel's O(IIRC) has been honed under Weis and Tom Moore of Indy. I believe years ago when Harrison really didn't have a #2 WR the Colts just sent the TE on quick deep routes. From what I've read, his philosophy is rooted in that style O. Anyhow then it gets complicated and a bit more confusing, or just hard for me to explain;).

Simply put, most teams don't have the athletes to cover all 4 Giant weapons(Plax, Tiki, Shockey, Amani) the second a team doubles Shockey someone else has a mismatch. So they just send Shockey on a deep(deeper than most teams TEs do) curl and however the D reacts, that tells Eli where to go. Again, simplest explanation

 

Bri

Footballguy
I don't know what Giants offense your watching, the team that I watch week in and week out, their offense goes thru Tiki Barber.
I believe they've tried to wait and give Barber a few seconds more this year because Hufnagel believes he has exceptional separation ability and esp short passes take that away
 

pghrob

Hail to the Chief
Shiancoe has produced every time he's been given a chance.  I'd start him over non-top-12 TEs.
Would you consider Ben Watson a top 12 TE?
Watson is a starter, but splits time with Graham. I would prefer Shiancoe who will share as much as Watson.Watson ranks 15th TE on a PPG basis.
After looking st some stats I feel Shiancoe is a very solid play. Maybe a top 5 te this week.
Top 5 is waaaaay too optimistic. There is no chance in hell I would put him ahead of established guys like Gates, Tony G, Heap, Crumpler, Witten, Cooley, McMichael this week. I would say 8th TE at best.
it could happen. Giants offense goes thru the TE this year. IE Shockey is passing option #1. Opportunity wise it's a strong play IMO. I wouldn't bother comparing careers or talent but....
I don't know what Giants offense your watching, the team that I watch week in and week out, their offense goes thru Tiki Barber. Plax is the 2nd option. Shockey is the 3rd option and he's been injured the last 4 weeks. Furthermore, Shiancoe has stone hands. IMHO, this is the worst call ever.

I hope I'm wrong and have to eat my words. Nothing would make me happier than the Gmen lighting up Kerry Collins and the raiders to get a playoff home game.
How did you come to this conclusion?http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/shiancoe_vishante

"ANALYSIS

Positives: Well-built with long arms and large hands … Uses his leg drive to defeat the jam coming off the line of scrimmage … Has ideal deep acceleration to get into the secondary quickly … Solid at running patterns and very effective on the option pass, showing the burst needed to escape the linebackers after the catch … Sees the ball well, doing a nice job of tracking the ball in over his shoulders … Makes proper adjustments on the ball, displaying above-average leaping ability and body control to compete with the defender for the ball at its high point … Has soft hands, extending properly to pluck and snatch away from the body's frame … Has the hip swerve to elude and the power to break arm tackles.

Negatives: Marginal blocker who seems to hesitate when asked to fire off the line to neutralize the linebackers with a cut block … Can be driven back into the pocket by larger defenders … Does not get his arms up with effective pop and explosion when trying to sustain … More of a short-yardage route-runner, as he needs to refine his cuts and does a poor job using his body to keep the defenders away from the ball (needs to secure it better before heading upfield) … Shows good hand placement, but still lets the defender get into his chest too quickly to redirect him.

CAREER NOTES

Emerging talent who came into his own as a junior after seeing limited action during his first two years with the Bears … Finished his career with 52 receptions for 1,001 yards (19.3 avg.) and 11 touchdowns while appearing in 30 games."

 

Chief

Footballguy
for what its worth... it is only partly cloudy here and the rain and wind is supposed to be laying off for the night.

 

gbill2004

Footballguy
I started Shiancoe in place of Shockey. He has one reception for 16 yards. For those watching the game, is he at least getting some looks? Is he involved in the offense?

 

Islander

Footballguy
I started Shiancoe in place of Shockey. He has one reception for 16 yards. For those watching the game, is he at least getting some looks? Is he involved in the offense?
Was targeted in end zone, pass was a little behind him, he had his hands on the ball but the defended knocked it down. He has not been involved another than his 16-yd reception and the target in the end zone.

 

Bri

Footballguy
gbill it's on WPIX by me in upstate NY. That's one of the more common "local" stations played in other markets like KTLA and WSBK etc.

 
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gbill2004

Footballguy
gbill it's on WPIX by me in upstate NY. That's one of the more common "local" stations played in other markets like KTLA and WSBK etc.
I live in Canada - no stations are carrying the game here...
 

Islander

Footballguy
gbill it's on WPIX by me in upstate NY. That's one of the more common "local" stations played in other markets like KTLA and WSBK etc.
I live in Canada - no stations are carrying the game here...
I am in Ottawa for the holidays and it's on. My hosts have ESPN here.
 

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