Ward's stiff arm to the face (1 Viewer)

[GregR_2]

While watching tonight's playoff game, it was hard not notice that stiff arm to the face by Ward that looked more like an attempt to clock another guy in the head than it did a football move to gain yardage.

For anyone who has enjoyed arguing in the past how Ward is completely undeserving of the votes he continually gets from other NFL players as to being one of the dirtiest players in the NFL, that's exactly the kind of thing that gets someone that kind of reputation.

I would love to have the competition committee take a look at plays like that and start to question why it is good for the game to not allow defensive players to get their hands in someone else's face when trying to beat a block from a lineman, but it's ok for a runner to be able to clock someone in the head.

 

[bryhamm]

How is a stiff arm a dirty play?

 

[gump]

How is a stiff arm a dirty play?

I agree with Greg...it was much more like a punch to the head than a stiff arm. Should be a penalty.

 

[mad sweeney]

While watching tonight's playoff game, it was hard not notice that stiff arm to the face by Ward that looked more like an attempt to clock another guy in the head than it did a football move to gain yardage.For anyone who has enjoyed arguing in the past how Ward is completely undeserving of the votes he continually gets from other NFL players as to being one of the dirtiest players in the NFL, that's exactly the kind of thing that gets someone that kind of reputation.I would love to have the competition committee take a look at plays like that and start to question why it is good for the game to not allow defensive players to get their hands in someone else's face when trying to beat a block from a lineman, but it's ok for a runner to be able to clock someone in the head.

Some do it a little more aggressively than others. But it's hard to differentiate, most of the time, between a stiffarm and a strike. I agree that looked more like a blow than a stiffarm and that Ward can take it to people more violently than others. Like when he "blocked" Ed Reed (?) with the top of his helmet to Reed's chin when Reed wasn't looking. The solution is to knock him flat when you get the chance.

 

[mad sweeney]

How is a stiff arm a dirty play?

A stiff arm isn't, but that was more like a punch to the face than a stiff arm. I don't expect you to see the difference btw, your homer glasses are Coke bottle thick.

 

[Biabreakable]

There is a rule against head slapping. That should apply here and any case that it happens. You shouldn't be exempt from the rule just because your carrying the ball.

They should also call facemask penalty on offensive players who stiff arm the defender in the facemask. Sometimes they grab the facemask to try to prevent the defender from making the tackle, other times they just stiff arm (not grab the mask) but they touch the mask while doing so. I think both actions should be facemask penalties.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

What about offensive linemen using head slaps? I think they're quite alright.

 

[GregR_2]

There is a rule against head slapping. That should apply here and any case that it happens. You shouldn't be exempt from the rule just because your carrying the ball.They should also call facemask penalty on offensive players who stiff arm the defender in the facemask. Sometimes they grab the facemask to try to prevent the defender from making the tackle, other times they just stiff arm (not grab the mask) but they touch the mask while doing so. I think both actions should be facemask penalties.

I agree on both counts. Though I haven't looked up the wording of the head slap rule, may check it later on, and see if anything about it rules out it being called against a ball carrier.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Facemasks, head slaps, pass interference... WRs get away with murder. They don't call the rules the same way for both sides of the ball.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Ward and his ####-eating grin. Not a big fan.

 

[Jiggyonthehut]

There is a rule against head slapping. That should apply here and any case that it happens. You shouldn't be exempt from the rule just because your carrying the ball.They should also call facemask penalty on offensive players who stiff arm the defender in the facemask. Sometimes they grab the facemask to try to prevent the defender from making the tackle, other times they just stiff arm (not grab the mask) but they touch the mask while doing so. I think both actions should be facemask penalties.

I agree on both counts. Though I haven't looked up the wording of the head slap rule, may check it later on, and see if anything about it rules out it being called against a ball carrier.

I never knew this. Please share this info once you find it. TIA

 

[jonessed]

Facemasks, head slaps, pass interference... WRs get away with murder. They don't call the rules the same way for both sides of the ball.

The separation push-off seems to be a mainstay of a few receivers and it never gets called. I think it hurts the game, but apparently the NFL wants high scoring.

 

[jonessed]

Go ahead TD and Ward gets a PI call when he has a handfull of the defenders facemask

 

[MaddHatter]

Hey Hines Ward...

 

[Hugonel]

He absolutely mugged the DB in the endzone to get the holding call. The DB was justifiably outraged as Ward grabbed the guy's face mask and just held him close and got the defensive interference call. No blaming the ref, but that's cheating in my book.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

There's a reason NFL players vote Hines Ward one of the dirtiest players in the NFL every time they vote.

 

[jonessed]

He absolutely mugged the DB in the endzone to get the holding call. The DB was justifiably outraged as Ward grabbed the guy's face mask and just held him close and got the defensive interference call. No blaming the ref, but that's cheating in my book.

The problem goes a lot deeper than one play. It seems to me that the NFL has decided that offensive pass interference is ok as long as it's not egregious. The WRs have enough advantage without giving them free reign to put their hands all over the DBs.

 

[Dought Man]

Hines Ward gets a lot out of his ability/body... but he is hard to root for with that constant fake grin on his face (whether they are up 20, or down 20)...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.

Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.

FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

 

[Bill Lust]

He absolutely mugged the DB in the endzone to get the holding call. The DB was justifiably outraged as Ward grabbed the guy's face mask and just held him close and got the defensive interference call. No blaming the ref, but that's cheating in my book.

The problem goes a lot deeper than one play. It seems to me that the NFL has decided that offensive pass interference is ok as long as it's not egregious. The WRs have enough advantage without giving them free reign to put their hands all over the DBs.

It's no surprise that the passing TD record has fallen twice in three years. It's time for a pendulum swing back in the direction of favoring DB's.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

is there a link that shows results of the players voting for who among them is dirtiest? i dont doubt for a second that Hines is on there.. just sounds like an interesting thing and would love to see the rest of the list

 

[Bill Lust]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

Piitsburgh Steelers... a team that cheats, and still cannot win.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

Piitsburgh Steelers... a team that cheats, and still cannot win.

You have no retort on the subject matter. And NOONE has won more then the Steelers since the inception of the Super Bowl. Noone.

 

[bryhamm]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

Piitsburgh Steelers... a team that cheats, and still cannot win.

Sucks being a fan of a team that has not won 5 SBs, doesn't it?

 

[Bill Lust]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

Piitsburgh Steelers... a team that cheats, and still cannot win.

Sucks being a fan of a team that has not won 5 SBs, doesn't it?

Yeah... and one since the disco era. Nice work.EDIT: Look at his signature. Come on. Do you think I was going to let that meatball slide over the plate?

 

[bryhamm]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

Piitsburgh Steelers... a team that cheats, and still cannot win.

Sucks being a fan of a team that has not won 5 SBs, doesn't it?

Yeah... and one since the disco era. Nice work.

wtf does that have to do with anything?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.

Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.

FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

Piitsburgh Steelers... a team that cheats, and still cannot win.

Sucks being a fan of a team that has not won 5 SBs, doesn't it?

Yeah... and one since the disco era. Nice work.

wtf does that have to do with anything?

Patriot fans still have Steeler envy despite the tremendous recent achievements by the Patriots themselves.Thus the idiocy he replied to my statement about the subject matter. He had no retort. The general football acumen of Patriot fans (apologies to those who are not the johnny come latelys, this doesnt apply to you) is horrendous, and their interactions in football circles is even worse. The worst of the worst.

 

[bryhamm]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.

Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.

FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

Piitsburgh Steelers... a team that cheats, and still cannot win.

Sucks being a fan of a team that has not won 5 SBs, doesn't it?

Yeah... and one since the disco era. Nice work.

wtf does that have to do with anything?

Patriot fans still have Steeler envy despite the tremendous recent achievements by the Patriots themselves.Thus the idiocy he replied to my statement about the subject matter. He had no retort. The general football acumen of Patriot fans (apologies to those who are not the johnny come latelys, this doesnt apply to you) is horrendous, and their interactions in football circles is even worse. The worst of the worst.

PIT, SF, DAL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else

but, NE is closing quick ... as much as I hate to say it.

 

[Bill Lust]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.

Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.

FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

Piitsburgh Steelers... a team that cheats, and still cannot win.

Sucks being a fan of a team that has not won 5 SBs, doesn't it?

Yeah... and one since the disco era. Nice work.

wtf does that have to do with anything?

Patriot fans still have Steeler envy despite the tremendous recent achievements by the Patriots themselves.Thus the idiocy he replied to my statement about the subject matter. He had no retort. The general football acumen of Patriot fans (apologies to those who are not the johnny come latelys) is horrendous, and their interactions in football circles is even worse. The worst of the worst.

I did have Steeler envy once. I forgot to use a condom. It happens.I just think it's funny that someone who thinks that "noone" is one word somehow integrated "acumen" into a post. Wow.

 

[GregR_2]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

If Andre Johnson did that I'd be right here saying the same thing as I have when Ward did it, that the way he did it had nothing to do with trying to gain yards. It was so clearcut this isn't even something that we're going to agree to disagree on. The defender went and had words with Ward at the end of the play. It was a cheap shot that was done because he knew he could get away with it because the rules on stiff arms are lax. Please don't try to claim it had anything to do with what his job as a football player is.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

PIT, SF, DAL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone elsebut, NE is closing quick ... as much as I hate to say it.

But its not even the subject matter. Its when they have nothing else to go on because their knowledge and understanding is completely limited - they come back with pure crap. They wrecked the KFFL boards and were the reason 2 others have since been shutdown.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

If Andre Johnson did that I'd be right here saying the same thing as I have when Ward did it, that the way he did it had nothing to do with trying to gain yards. It was so clearcut this isn't even something that we're going to agree to disagree on. The defender went and had words with Ward at the end of the play. It was a cheap shot that was done because he knew he could get away with it because the rules on stiff arms are lax. Please don't try to claim it had anything to do with what his job as a football player is.

Its not cheap. Its hard nosed and totally legal. Now had he tried to poke his eye out or gone for a karate chop to the neck, that would be cheap. He hit the guy flat on the front of his helmet in a totally legal play. Do you think the safety who slams into Ward is thinking about "using too much force"? Were they out of bounds? Was the play over?

 

[Sheriff66]

Does anyone here know the rule ????

You can stiff arm in the face mask as long as you do not grab it...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I did have Steeler envy once. I forgot to use a condom. It happens.I just think it's funny that someone who thinks that "noone" is one word somehow integrated "acumen" into a post. Wow.

Its called typin'. Not english. Does everything need to be explained to you? FTR: Im no typist. HTH.

 

[gump]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

If Andre Johnson did that I'd be right here saying the same thing as I have when Ward did it, that the way he did it had nothing to do with trying to gain yards. It was so clearcut this isn't even something that we're going to agree to disagree on. The defender went and had words with Ward at the end of the play. It was a cheap shot that was done because he knew he could get away with it because the rules on stiff arms are lax. Please don't try to claim it had anything to do with what his job as a football player is.

Its not cheap. Its hard nosed and totally legal. Now had he tried to poke his eye out or gone for a karate chop to the neck, that would be cheap. He hit the guy flat on the front of his helmet in a totally legal play. Do you think the safety who slams into Ward is thinking about "using too much force"? Were they out of bounds? Was the play over?

Doesn't make sense. If it is "hard nosed and totally legal", a defensive player should be able to do it.They can't.

 

[GregR_2]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

If Andre Johnson did that I'd be right here saying the same thing as I have when Ward did it, that the way he did it had nothing to do with trying to gain yards. It was so clearcut this isn't even something that we're going to agree to disagree on. The defender went and had words with Ward at the end of the play. It was a cheap shot that was done because he knew he could get away with it because the rules on stiff arms are lax. Please don't try to claim it had anything to do with what his job as a football player is.

Its not cheap. Its hard nosed and totally legal. Now had he tried to poke his eye out or gone for a karate chop to the neck, that would be cheap. He hit the guy flat on the front of his helmet in a totally legal play. Do you think the safety who slams into Ward is thinking about "using too much force"? Were they out of bounds? Was the play over?

Yes, it was such a clean play that the DB he did it to went and got in his face after the play to tell him what a fine, upstanding play it was. What is it about sports, politics, and religion that make some people lose all sense of objectivity whenever it is their group involved?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Yes, it was such a clean play that the DB he did it to went and got in his face after the play to tell him what a fine, upstanding play it was. What is it about sports, politics, and religion that make some people lose all sense of objectivity whenever it is their group involved?

Because the DB doesnt like being hit. Nothing new.Q: Is he supposed to play with self imposed rules? A: No.

 

[cacksman]

Ward and his ####-eating grin. Not a big fan.

Glad to know I wont be seeing him anymore this season.

 

[Sheriff66]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

If Andre Johnson did that I'd be right here saying the same thing as I have when Ward did it, that the way he did it had nothing to do with trying to gain yards. It was so clearcut this isn't even something that we're going to agree to disagree on. The defender went and had words with Ward at the end of the play. It was a cheap shot that was done because he knew he could get away with it because the rules on stiff arms are lax. Please don't try to claim it had anything to do with what his job as a football player is.

Its not cheap. Its hard nosed and totally legal. Now had he tried to poke his eye out or gone for a karate chop to the neck, that would be cheap. He hit the guy flat on the front of his helmet in a totally legal play. Do you think the safety who slams into Ward is thinking about "using too much force"? Were they out of bounds? Was the play over?

Yes, it was such a clean play that the DB he did it to went and got in his face after the play to tell him what a fine, upstanding play it was. What is it about sports, politics, and religion that make some people lose all sense of objectivity whenever it is their group involved?

Like it or not, it was a totally legal play...

 

[BigSteelThrill]

A ball carrier trying to advance the ball can strike a defender. It can even be his job and obligation.Because some use more or less force doesnt change it from being a smart and legal play.FTR: 11 people have the right to maul and strike the ball carrier.

If Andre Johnson did that I'd be right here saying the same thing as I have when Ward did it, that the way he did it had nothing to do with trying to gain yards. It was so clearcut this isn't even something that we're going to agree to disagree on. The defender went and had words with Ward at the end of the play. It was a cheap shot that was done because he knew he could get away with it because the rules on stiff arms are lax. Please don't try to claim it had anything to do with what his job as a football player is.

Its not cheap. Its hard nosed and totally legal. Now had he tried to poke his eye out or gone for a karate chop to the neck, that would be cheap. He hit the guy flat on the front of his helmet in a totally legal play. Do you think the safety who slams into Ward is thinking about "using too much force"? Were they out of bounds? Was the play over?

Doesn't make sense. If it is "hard nosed and totally legal", a defensive player should be able to do it.They can't.

THEY CAN.There are lots of rules that only apply to certain players/positions on the field.One of them is that the BALLCARRIER can strike a defensive player using the straight arm.Meanwhile the defenders can maul and strike the defenders with the ball. >>>> The defender could have straight armed Hines (possibly in the head). But it would be STUPID. Because he should be trying to tackle and not break away. Whereas Hines is trying to keep defenders off of him not tackle. Thus the referees may consider it an attempt to injure (uneccesary roughness) instead of trying to play football. Which could have happend to Hines as well... except he had the ball and was gaining yardage in bounds. Do we need a football101 section here?

 

[gump]

THEY CAN.There are LOTS of rules that only apply to certain players/positions on the field.One of them is that the BALLCARRIER can strike a defeive player using the straight arm.Meanwhile the defenders can maul and strike the defenders with the ball. >>>> The defender could have straight armed Hines in the head. But it would be STUPID. Because he should be trying to tackle and not break away. Whereas Hines is trying to keep defenders off of him not tackle.Do we need a football101 section here?

A punch to the head is not a straight-arm.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

THEY CAN.There are LOTS of rules that only apply to certain players/positions on the field.One of them is that the BALLCARRIER can strike a defeive player using the straight arm.Meanwhile the defenders can maul and strike the defenders with the ball. >>>> The defender could have straight armed Hines in the head. But it would be STUPID. Because he should be trying to tackle and not break away. Whereas Hines is trying to keep defenders off of him not tackle.Do we need a football101 section here?

A punch to the head is not a straight-arm.

Yes it is. Its an attmept by the ballcarrier to get the defender away from him. Is it unecessary rouhgness? Not if it has the ability to advance the ball just a tad bit further.

 

[gump]

THEY CAN.There are LOTS of rules that only apply to certain players/positions on the field.One of them is that the BALLCARRIER can strike a defeive player using the straight arm.Meanwhile the defenders can maul and strike the defenders with the ball. >>>> The defender could have straight armed Hines in the head. But it would be STUPID. Because he should be trying to tackle and not break away. Whereas Hines is trying to keep defenders off of him not tackle.Do we need a football101 section here?

A punch to the head is not a straight-arm.

Yes it is. Its an attmept by the ballcarrier to get the defender away from him. Is it unecessary rouhgness? Not if it has the ability to advance the ball just a tad bit further.

There has to be a definition of "stiff arm" in the NFL rule book...I'm guessing it doesn't fit what Ward did.If it does...it should be changed.

 

[ceisenhower66]

Another thread that was a complete waste of my time.

Hines Ward is a nice guy...I've enjoyed talking to him the few times I've met him. I love the intensity and unique skill set he brings to the game. Most of you haters would love him if he was on your team.

 

[Sheriff66]

THEY CAN.There are LOTS of rules that only apply to certain players/positions on the field.One of them is that the BALLCARRIER can strike a defeive player using the straight arm.Meanwhile the defenders can maul and strike the defenders with the ball. >>>> The defender could have straight armed Hines in the head. But it would be STUPID. Because he should be trying to tackle and not break away. Whereas Hines is trying to keep defenders off of him not tackle.Do we need a football101 section here?

A punch to the head is not a straight-arm.

Yes it is. Its an attmept by the ballcarrier to get the defender away from him. Is it unecessary rouhgness? Not if it has the ability to advance the ball just a tad bit further.

There has to be a definition of "stiff arm" in the NFL rule book...I'm guessing it doesn't fit what Ward did.If it does...it should be changed.

Actually, Ward stiff arm was test book, as long as you do not close your hand on the facemask itis prefectly legal.

 

[gump]

THEY CAN.There are LOTS of rules that only apply to certain players/positions on the field.One of them is that the BALLCARRIER can strike a defeive player using the straight arm.Meanwhile the defenders can maul and strike the defenders with the ball. >>>> The defender could have straight armed Hines in the head. But it would be STUPID. Because he should be trying to tackle and not break away. Whereas Hines is trying to keep defenders off of him not tackle.Do we need a football101 section here?

A punch to the head is not a straight-arm.

Yes it is. Its an attmept by the ballcarrier to get the defender away from him. Is it unecessary rouhgness? Not if it has the ability to advance the ball just a tad bit further.

There has to be a definition of "stiff arm" in the NFL rule book...I'm guessing it doesn't fit what Ward did.If it does...it should be changed.

Actually, Ward stiff arm was test book, as long as you do not close your hand on the facemask itis prefectly legal.

Then the textbook should be changed. He punched him in the head. Who cares if it's open or closed handed?

 

[Sheriff66]

THEY CAN.There are LOTS of rules that only apply to certain players/positions on the field.One of them is that the BALLCARRIER can strike a defeive player using the straight arm.Meanwhile the defenders can maul and strike the defenders with the ball. >>>> The defender could have straight armed Hines in the head. But it would be STUPID. Because he should be trying to tackle and not break away. Whereas Hines is trying to keep defenders off of him not tackle.Do we need a football101 section here?

A punch to the head is not a straight-arm.

Yes it is. Its an attmept by the ballcarrier to get the defender away from him. Is it unecessary rouhgness? Not if it has the ability to advance the ball just a tad bit further.

There has to be a definition of "stiff arm" in the NFL rule book...I'm guessing it doesn't fit what Ward did.If it does...it should be changed.

Actually, Ward stiff arm was test book, as long as you do not close your hand on the facemask itis prefectly legal.

Then the textbook should be changed. He punched him in the head. Who cares if it's open or closed handed?

Change the rule then, but what Ward did was 100% legal

 

[BigSteelThrill]

THEY CAN.There are LOTS of rules that only apply to certain players/positions on the field.One of them is that the BALLCARRIER can strike a defeive player using the straight arm.Meanwhile the defenders can maul and strike the defenders with the ball. >>>> The defender could have straight armed Hines in the head. But it would be STUPID. Because he should be trying to tackle and not break away. Whereas Hines is trying to keep defenders off of him not tackle.Do we need a football101 section here?

A punch to the head is not a straight-arm.

Yes it is. Its an attmept by the ballcarrier to get the defender away from him. Is it unecessary rouhgness? Not if it has the ability to advance the ball just a tad bit further.

There has to be a definition of "stiff arm" in the NFL rule book...I'm guessing it doesn't fit what Ward did.If it does...it should be changed.

Yes, Im guessing that the rule book will state no touching of the head in almost all circumstances. Its the safe approach.Yet how the rules are applied will allow touching of the head in a "straight arm" by the ball carrier or defender (on the ballcarrier) so long as he does not grip the helmet/mask.

 

[Bill Lust]

Does anyone here know the rule ????You can stiff arm in the face mask as long as you do not grab it...

Yeah, and Ward was grabbing it.

 

[ceisenhower66]

You guys are nuts...if it was so blatant, they would have called him for a penalty. It's not like the refs have a hard on for Ward. I'm sure they get annoyed by him like everyone else in the league.