Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
WCOFF: FINANCIAL ISSUES AND CONCERNS (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Maroney=Speed
- Start date
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I disagree. After looking into the business model a few years back, I came to the conclusion that running a fantasy contest was far from a cash cow and that the margins would be razor thin for the first couple of years. I think there is very little money to be made in running a contest like this unless you go super big and get economies of scale. But you have to spend a fair amount on marketing and overhead to get there. Most players viewed WCOFF as the premier contest but how much money did they have to shell out to build the brand and get to that point? My guess is probably hundreds of thousands. Factoring in startup and overhead costs, I suspect that many of these contests have been operating at a loss since Day 1 and never reach profitability which is why they eventually go bust. I'm not sure if WCOFF falls into that category but it would not surprise me.
yellowdog
Footballguy
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
now I'm no grammar nazi, but c'mon...
I just assumed he is from a different country. Every time i read something he writes the voice in my head uses an unidentified accent.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Any updates?
Cassius
Footballguy
Yeah. We're all waiting for you to post proof of your donation.
joefootball
Footballguy
I think Full Tilt Poker was a major sponsor and they are in some big trouble with the law so maybe the none payments to some are related.
DesmondBishop
Footballguy
I actually LOL when I read this, I thought I was the only one that did that.You have to register on WCOFF's message boards to view the pertinent posts. Once you do it's pretty incredible what their own players are saying. WCOFF still owes serious cash to people: like big money, six figures kind of cash. Seems like a lot of people agree that WCOFF is using its baseball entries to pay its football winners but then they're still coming up short. This looks really bad.
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Yes. You have 1 less friend and in the near future, one less board to visit.'Maroney=Speed said:
Kind of fitting that like most deadbeat commissioners and gaming sites, you've gone silent when it comes time to pay up.
I agree with your sentiment (and the few above), but also want to throw out there that there may be a niche market based on "honesty" in light of what has happened with these high stakes leagues in the past couple of years. if you think about how they attract, it is a very simple concept; they say "X amount of prize money" will be given to the winner and how much will be given overall. They come to this conclusion based on estimates of how many players they can attract and how much money that will generate. Up to this point, it was flat-out necessary in order to compete from a business standpoint. But without any kind of backing (i.e. the FBG contest), it really is a shot in the dark. I believe if someone created a contest and was extremely up front about what the minimums would be in prize money (based uppon participation) and then not only mentioned, but advertised to the contestants how many people signed up (and the price per head) and what the prizes would be when they "lock it down", not only would they have a sound business model (they can estimate at that point what they need to make a sound profit for their efforts), they also would buy some goodwill.I am a headhunter and have one particular client who is a consulting firm. they have a somewhat unique business model in that they have an "open book" with their consultants about how much they pay their consultants and what they bill them out at. My candidates love this...they are smart enough to understand the company has to pay operating costs and make a sound profit...what is ironic is that they tend to have a higher margin than their competition, but since they lay it all out for their employees, they have secured goodwill among their consultants, whereas other firms (who make less off their people) are still not trusted since they do not share this information. Just spitballing here, but I think someone could start a smaller contest, based on financial clarity, and have a nice little business going forward.
Zegras11
Footballguy
It's against the UIGEA to have contest prizes based solely on participation.
yellowdog
Footballguy
Ban him!'Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub said:Yes. You have 1 less friend and in the near future, one less board to visit.'Maroney=Speed said:Kind of fitting that like most deadbeat commissioners and gaming sites, you've gone silent when it comes time to pay up.
Yellow Line is Unoffcial
Footballguy
Back to the topic, I just posted this on another board.
Dustin hasn't posted on the WCOFF boards in three weeks. He hasn't even signed in since 4/14.
There is no more baseball money coming in. Nobody who is owed money has been paid in the last couple of weeks. Two more of Dustin's self imposed deadlines have been missed (4/1 and the 10 to 14 days he told Fester)
All can can do is laugh when I read posts from people who have talked to, that still believe "its not a money issue" C'mon when money came in for baseball money went out to football winners. Now that nothing's comming in nothing's going out.
I believe everyone will be paid. I beleive its not a money issue. I believe thats a big announcement is coming that will restore everyones faith. I believe Jesse is still part of the WCOFF, and in keeping with the season I believe in the Easter Bunny.
Dustin hasn't posted on the WCOFF boards in three weeks. He hasn't even signed in since 4/14.
There is no more baseball money coming in. Nobody who is owed money has been paid in the last couple of weeks. Two more of Dustin's self imposed deadlines have been missed (4/1 and the 10 to 14 days he told Fester)
All can can do is laugh when I read posts from people who have talked to, that still believe "its not a money issue" C'mon when money came in for baseball money went out to football winners. Now that nothing's comming in nothing's going out.
I believe everyone will be paid. I beleive its not a money issue. I believe thats a big announcement is coming that will restore everyones faith. I believe Jesse is still part of the WCOFF, and in keeping with the season I believe in the Easter Bunny.
joefootball
Footballguy
WCOFF is doing well no communication from ownership and payments still owed! They have my trust!
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Unreal.
gianmarco
Footballguy
That you haven't paid your $5 bet and proven it? I know.....
You got paid under the former ownership. They had everything paid in full in rapid fashion. The same can not be said for the current group. 3 years and every year they have not hit their self-imposed deadlines for payment and this year is the worst by far. Many people have yet to be paid. Can I ask if you completed your registration for the upcoming season?'efactor said:
RUSF18
Footballguy
I feel so bad for everyone affected. Sucks to have that helpless feeling where you know you're potentially screwed. A guy waiting on a check for over $100M...imagine telling your wife that you've won that much money and can now afford a down payment on a house, only for it not to show up.
I hope these guys get what they deserve.
I hope these guys get what they deserve.
Last edited by a moderator:
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
If you have something to add, than please do.Thanks'gianmarco said:
gianmarco
Footballguy
Pretty sure I did. You're posting about a company welching on payouts when you've done the same thing on a smaller scale. The owner of this site has called you out on it and yet you continue to return without "paying up". I'd say it's relevant when the topic has been discussed in this thread.Of course, you could just post the receipt and then get it back to the topic at hand.......
joefootball
Footballguy
Can we please stay on topic there are players out there owed alot of money from one of the biggest high stakes fantasy football league. Can you guys PM each other about your bets or whatever it is. Thanks in advanced.Pretty sure I did. You're posting about a company welching on payouts when you've done the same thing on a smaller scale. The owner of this site has called you out on it and yet you continue to return without "paying up". I'd say it's relevant when the topic has been discussed in this thread.Of course, you could just post the receipt and then get it back to the topic at hand.......
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Can we please stay on topic there are players out there owed alot of money from one of the biggest high stakes fantasy football league. Can you guys PM each other about your bets or whatever it is. Thanks in advanced.Pretty sure I did. You're posting about a company welching on payouts when you've done the same thing on a smaller scale. The owner of this site has called you out on it and yet you continue to return without "paying up". I'd say it's relevant when the topic has been discussed in this thread.Of course, you could just post the receipt and then get it back to the topic at hand.......
gianmarco
Footballguy
Take it up with Joe.Can we please stay on topic there are players out there owed alot of money from one of the biggest high stakes fantasy football league. Can you guys PM each other about your bets or whatever it is. Thanks in advanced.Pretty sure I did. You're posting about a company welching on payouts when you've done the same thing on a smaller scale. The owner of this site has called you out on it and yet you continue to return without "paying up". I'd say it's relevant when the topic has been discussed in this thread.Of course, you could just post the receipt and then get it back to the topic at hand.......
Instinctive
Footballguy
Nah, I'm waiting for a receipt pic as well.Perhaps the guy who started the thread about welching on a payment could actually not welch on a payment?Can we please stay on topic there are players out there owed alot of money from one of the biggest high stakes fantasy football league. Can you guys PM each other about your bets or whatever it is. Thanks in advanced.Pretty sure I did. You're posting about a company welching on payouts when you've done the same thing on a smaller scale. The owner of this site has called you out on it and yet you continue to return without "paying up". I'd say it's relevant when the topic has been discussed in this thread.Of course, you could just post the receipt and then get it back to the topic at hand.......
joefootball
Footballguy
For the life of me I dont understand why a $5 bet is more important than a High Stakes Fantasy Football League like WCFF not paying their customers and owe 6 figures to their players. Sure the guy should pay his $5 bet but come one this is a sad day for High Stakes Fantasy Football with this happening to the original contest. Very sad to these players.
RUSF18
Footballguy
At least it's keeping this thread bumped...
gianmarco
Footballguy
No one said the $5 bet was more important. It's simply being discussed in the same thread. As RUSF just pointed out, it's keeping it bumped too so you should be thrilled. Of course it sucks for the people that may potentially lose money as a result of this and it definitely needs exposure. That said, M=S needs to pay on his bet as well especially after starting thread talking about others not paying up when they're supposed to.
efactor
Footballguy
Not after seeing that they seem to be running a Ponzi scheme. I will look at the other high stakes leagues that escrow their money and see which one appeals to me the most. I really enjoyed the first two years of WCOFF. The third year wasn't much fun (team sucked after a hot start and then a ton of injuries which is a big reason why it wasn't much fun) so I stopped playing. Got the bug this year to go for some big money and since my son is 21 now, was going to take him as a co-manager. Couldn't believe the crap that was going on. Didn't know Emil and Lenny had sold out either'fourd said:
joefootball
Footballguy
Wonder if they will make some kind of announcement sometime soon? The silence is crazy over there.
Yellow Line is Unoffcial
Footballguy
Silence no more, this was posted today:
30-45 more days before all of the 2010 winners paid while they promote 2011 events.
From the WCOFF Boards:
Thank you for your patience as I've been unable to post regularly on the boards over the past 7 to 10 days. This morning I was able to send out what I believe is an exciting announcement for the World Championship of Fantasy Sports. All WCOFF players in our database should have received this message via email this morning, but just in case I'll post it here as well.
WCOFS Announcement - April 26, 2011
It's with great excitement that I announce the beginning of a new chapter for the World Championship of Fantasy Sports (WCOFS). Over the next 30 to 45 days, I, along with my partners in GridIron Fantasy Sports LLC, will be working through a transaction to transfer ownership of the WCOFS. During this period of time, day to day activity at the WCOFS will continue, specifically the contest administration of the World Championship of Fantasy Baseball (WCOFB) and preparation for the 10th annual World Championship of Fantasy Football (WCOFF).
Since 2002, the WCOFF has awarded over $14M in cash awards and provided a playing field for fantasy sports players willing to embrace the challenge of competing against the best of the best. It's been our pleasure at GridIron Fantasy Sports LLC to have participated in the growth and evolution of the premier fantasy sports contest in the world since 2007 and look forward to what's next for everyone associated with the WCOFF and WCOFB.
So what does this mean for players who have made a prize claim and are awaiting their award distribution? During this period of finalizing a transition of ownership, we will not be releasing checks. As soon as this process is complete, we will resume the awards distribution process. We will go above and beyond to make it up to those of you who were delayed in receiving your award distribution as a result of this transition.
What does this mean for the 2011 WCOFF? The 2011 and 10th Annual World Championship of Fantasy Football will continue as planned with live drafts in Las Vegas, Chicago, Atlantic City and S. Florida - September 8th - 12th. The MGM Grand will host the Las Vegas festivities and the Sheraton Hotel will again host the live events in Atlantic City. Venues for Chicago and S. Florida are still being finalized.
WCOFF Tentative Schedule of Events
Thursday, September 8th
MGM Grand Viewing Party
(New Orleans vs. Green Bay)
GridIron $10K Draft
Invitational League #1
Friday, September 9th
Draft Masters, $1K Auction, $5K Auction and $5K Draft
Main Event Session I
Saturday, September 10th
Main Event Session II
$350 Championship (WCOFF Online / Live Progressive)
$25K Platinum League
Invitational League #2
MGM Grand / WCOFF Players Party
Sunday, September 11th
MGM Grand Viewing Party
As soon as we have completed this transaction I'll be able to provide a broader explanation as to what brought us to this decision and the events of the past several months. I can tell you, as a shareholder and more importantly the operator of the World Championship of Fantasy Sports, I'm as excited about what this decision means for WCOFF, WCOFB and the fantasy sports industry as I was when we purchased WCOFF back in 2007.
30-45 more days before all of the 2010 winners paid while they promote 2011 events.
From the WCOFF Boards:
Thank you for your patience as I've been unable to post regularly on the boards over the past 7 to 10 days. This morning I was able to send out what I believe is an exciting announcement for the World Championship of Fantasy Sports. All WCOFF players in our database should have received this message via email this morning, but just in case I'll post it here as well.
WCOFS Announcement - April 26, 2011
It's with great excitement that I announce the beginning of a new chapter for the World Championship of Fantasy Sports (WCOFS). Over the next 30 to 45 days, I, along with my partners in GridIron Fantasy Sports LLC, will be working through a transaction to transfer ownership of the WCOFS. During this period of time, day to day activity at the WCOFS will continue, specifically the contest administration of the World Championship of Fantasy Baseball (WCOFB) and preparation for the 10th annual World Championship of Fantasy Football (WCOFF).
Since 2002, the WCOFF has awarded over $14M in cash awards and provided a playing field for fantasy sports players willing to embrace the challenge of competing against the best of the best. It's been our pleasure at GridIron Fantasy Sports LLC to have participated in the growth and evolution of the premier fantasy sports contest in the world since 2007 and look forward to what's next for everyone associated with the WCOFF and WCOFB.
So what does this mean for players who have made a prize claim and are awaiting their award distribution? During this period of finalizing a transition of ownership, we will not be releasing checks. As soon as this process is complete, we will resume the awards distribution process. We will go above and beyond to make it up to those of you who were delayed in receiving your award distribution as a result of this transition.
What does this mean for the 2011 WCOFF? The 2011 and 10th Annual World Championship of Fantasy Football will continue as planned with live drafts in Las Vegas, Chicago, Atlantic City and S. Florida - September 8th - 12th. The MGM Grand will host the Las Vegas festivities and the Sheraton Hotel will again host the live events in Atlantic City. Venues for Chicago and S. Florida are still being finalized.
WCOFF Tentative Schedule of Events
Thursday, September 8th
MGM Grand Viewing Party
(New Orleans vs. Green Bay)
GridIron $10K Draft
Invitational League #1
Friday, September 9th
Draft Masters, $1K Auction, $5K Auction and $5K Draft
Main Event Session I
Saturday, September 10th
Main Event Session II
$350 Championship (WCOFF Online / Live Progressive)
$25K Platinum League
Invitational League #2
MGM Grand / WCOFF Players Party
Sunday, September 11th
MGM Grand Viewing Party
As soon as we have completed this transaction I'll be able to provide a broader explanation as to what brought us to this decision and the events of the past several months. I can tell you, as a shareholder and more importantly the operator of the World Championship of Fantasy Sports, I'm as excited about what this decision means for WCOFF, WCOFB and the fantasy sports industry as I was when we purchased WCOFF back in 2007.
45 more days until winners get paid? Man, that's just unacceptable. You've got fantasy owners that are owed thousands of dollars by this contest and WOCFF releases this BS today?
What if this "transaction" falls through? This smells bad.
I'm sorry for anybody who's owed money.
What if this "transaction" falls through? This smells bad.
I'm sorry for anybody who's owed money.
joefootball
Footballguy
What a train wreck. This is bad news. How will we even know if there are new owners or not?
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Damn, a possible June payout for something that should have been paid out in January. If their drafts arent empty come next September something is wrong.
rustycolts
Footballguy
Don't know if the FBGs players championship is considered high stakes but I enjoyed playing that last year.Does anyone know if that will be held again this year?Seems to me that is the contest to play in if you want a bigger payout.I did not worry one time last season about being paid if I was lucky enough to win.
David Dodds
Administrator
Yes we are definitely back this year. We will be guaranteeing a top prize of $100K out of the gate as well (as long as an NFL season is played).
rustycolts
Footballguy
Great I'm in again this year.Great contest and a lot of fun.I'll be donating my entry fees to the prize pool.
Last edited by a moderator:
Instinctive
Footballguy
I wonder how many days until Maroney pays up too...
Couch Potato
Footballguy
If WCOFF thought they had trouble getting enough money from Peter to pay Paul before, good luck as things go forward. I don't know why anyone knowledgeable about what's transpired would ever trust them with another dime. I sure as hell wouldn't. I never have done WCOFF but considered it last year. Not any more, that's for sure.
has any "transfer to new owners" ever worked well for the consumer in the land of high stakes contests? I am asking since I do not know the answer.
CalBear
Footballguy
Almost certainly not, but it is at least theoretically possible that WCOFF could pull it off. Their brand is a lot stronger than someone like AFFL, whose line was "we have this great software that people will pay us for" (uh, not), so an investor might be interested in swooping in to take over the name and contest.But every day they don't pay, the brand value diminishes.
