What are the purpose of rankings? (1 Viewer)

[Winston Wolfe]

Every year when the rankings come out the same question is asked and confusion is abound.

"What is the basis for these rankings? The order you would draft them in, where you think their stats will rank at the end of the season, or based on a plethora of information, here is how I value the players?"

IMO, rankings that are done under any other criteria than perceived value are USELESS. I might be in the minority, but I WANT to know where the staff values a certain player.

If I want to know when to draft a player, I will study the most recent ADP. While year end statistics are nice, who has more value on draft day: Player A who scores 100 pts in 16 games, or the Player B who is a backup who might score 90 pts in 6 games because someone gets hurt?

Variance from ADP can be a good thing if you have solid reasoning, while being a slave to ADP creates a hive mentality, which can sometimes be a bad thing if you follow it, but can be used to your benefit if you go against it.

Where does everyone stand on this?

 

[BroadwayG]

They are a nice guide in case I have any lingering questions in my own mind.

 

[Musesboy]

I use the rankings to see where others think the value is. When combined with mock drafts and ADP it helps me highlight the players I need to move early on, and those I can afford to wait to pick.

It's interesting to see where others rank players but I take the view that I will win or lose based on my own thoughts. It's not that much fun plugging in the rankings of others to try and win my league.

 

[bagger.]

Every year when the rankings come out the same question is asked and confusion is abound.

"What is the basis for these rankings? The order you would draft them in, where you think their stats will rank at the end of the season, or based on a plethora of information, here is how I value the players?"

IMO, rankings that are done under any other criteria than perceived value are USELESS.   I might be in the minority, but I WANT to know where the staff values a certain player. 

If I want to know when to draft a player, I will study the most recent ADP.  While year end statistics are nice, who has more value on draft day:  Player A who scores 100 pts in 16 games, or the Player B who is a backup who might score 90 pts in 6 games because someone gets hurt?

Variance from ADP can be a good thing if you have solid reasoning, while being a slave to ADP creates a hive mentality, which can sometimes be a bad thing if you follow it, but can be used to your benefit if you go against it.

Where does everyone stand on this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rankings should not tell you when to draft a player but let you know how many fantasy points to expect from them over the course of the season. Like you say there are many instances where players' PPG is more important than total points and by the time your draft comes around there should be no further quantitative calculations but rather all qualitative judgements, one of those being when to target players versus their ADP.Knowing when to wait on positions and when to strike is imperative in a draft, but more importantly knowing when runs occur and how many of each position will drop off from pick to pick. Once you know your draft position you should be able to form a loose collection of players that will make up your team before the first person has even gone on the clock.

Exploiting the inefficiencies of the draft where someone you rank high has a low ADP and knowing how long you can (or cannot) afford to wait on certain positions is the easiest way to crush your draft. It has nothing to do with baselines.

I should add that rankings by themselves are worthless if you do not have the underlying projected fantasy points behind them as often the difference between the #8 RB - #12 RB can be less than 2 PPG.

 

[Winston Wolfe]

...the difference between the #8 RB - #12 RB can be less than 2 PPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And we know that 1 PPG can be the difference between $0 and $5,000

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Rankings should not tell you when to draft a player but let you know how many fantasy points to expect from them over the course of the season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is what the FBG rankings reflect. Knowing when to draft a player depends on too many factors that cannot be encapsulated in ranking form. What other players at the same position will be available next round, what's my current depth at this position, how many roster spots will I allocate to this position, is the last guy I took at this position pretty dependable or is he a high-risk high-reward type? And so on . . .

 

[bagger.]

Rankings should not tell you when to draft a player but let you know how many fantasy points to expect from them over the course of the season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is what the FBG rankings reflect. Knowing when to draft a player depends on too many factors that cannot be encapsulated in ranking form. What other players at the same position will be available next round, what's my current depth at this position, how many roster spots will I allocate to this position, is the last guy I took at this position pretty dependable or is he a high-risk high-reward type? And so on . . .
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[Joe T]

Every year when the rankings come out the same question is asked and confusion is abound.

"What is the basis for these rankings? The order you would draft them in, where you think their stats will rank at the end of the season, or based on a plethora of information, here is how I value the players?"

IMO, rankings that are done under any other criteria than perceived value are USELESS.   I might be in the minority, but I WANT to know where the staff values a certain player. 

If I want to know when to draft a player, I will study the most recent ADP.  While year end statistics are nice, who has more value on draft day:  Player A who scores 100 pts in 16 games, or the Player B who is a backup who might score 90 pts in 6 games because someone gets hurt?

Variance from ADP can be a good thing if you have solid reasoning, while being a slave to ADP creates a hive mentality, which can sometimes be a bad thing if you follow it, but can be used to your benefit if you go against it.

Where does everyone stand on this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rankings should not tell you when to draft a player but let you know how many fantasy points to expect from them over the course of the season. Like you say there are many instances where players' PPG is more important than total points and by the time your draft comes around there should be no further quantitative calculations but rather all qualitative judgements, one of those being when to target players versus their ADP.Knowing when to wait on positions and when to strike is imperative in a draft, but more importantly knowing when runs occur and how many of each position will drop off from pick to pick. Once you know your draft position you should be able to form a loose collection of players that will make up your team before the first person has even gone on the clock.

Exploiting the inefficiencies of the draft where someone you rank high has a low ADP and knowing how long you can (or cannot) afford to wait on certain positions is the easiest way to crush your draft. It has nothing to do with baselines.

I should add that rankings by themselves are worthless if you do not have the underlying projected fantasy points behind them as often the difference between the #8 RB - #12 RB can be less than 2 PPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more.It never tells you when to draft a player... it guides you on inefficiencies and formulating your overall plan.

 

[brettdj]

I take many sites rankings as a starting guideline for my own rankings.

My own rankings reflect where I will draft a player in comparison to the others of the same position.

I usually set my top 20 overall, just before the draft. 9 times out of 10 in a 10-12 team draft, I will get 3 of my top 20.

Using this method has landed a top prize for 3 straight years and probably top 3 in the last 10 years.

 

[Musesboy]

After a few years of gaining experience, I don't see the need to personally rank any players.

During a draft we automatically look at value, determine remaining depth at positions, and mentally rank the players.

So the main reason is to help predict what other owners might do.

 

[bagger.]

I take many sites rankings as a starting guideline for my own rankings.

My own rankings reflect where I will draft a player in comparison to the others of the same position.

I usually set my top 20 overall, just before the draft.  9 times out of 10 in a 10-12 team draft, I will get 3 of my top 20.

how does that tell how one position will perform compared to another? how does this incorporate rules changes?

getting 3 of your top 20 may not be that great of an accomplishment if you could have grabbed them later.

Using this method has landed a top prize for 3 straight years and probably top 3 in the last 10 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

irrelevant.

 

[bagger.]

After a few years of gaining experience, I don't see the need to personally rank any players.

During a draft we automatically look at value, determine remaining depth at positions, and mentally rank the players.

So the main reason is to help predict what other owners might do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how does creating your rankings project what other players will do?ADP does this for you.

and the main reason is not to predict other owners.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

rankings are considered year-end projections, but also must take into account a range of possible outcomes and injury risk for a player.

in general, they should reflect the value you place on a player and thus can be useful as a type of cheatsheet, provided that ADP info is take into account. obviously, if you think someone will finish as a top-5 QB but his ADP suggests that you can get him as QB15, then you should not draft him as the 5th QB off the board. Thus, these aren't "cheatsheets" per se.

 

[Musesboy]

After a few years of gaining experience, I don't see the need to personally rank any players.

During a draft we automatically look at value, determine remaining depth at positions, and mentally rank the players.

So the main reason is to help predict what other owners might do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how does creating your rankings project what other players will do?ADP does this for you.

and the main reason is not to predict other owners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ADP is useful. Rankings from the top sites are useful. I find that the vast majority of owners will follow the expert rankings or agree with most of them. I want to see where I differ from the pack and calculate where my target players may fall. Mock drafts help me decide what players are likely to fall where, and what strategy will suit me best for that year.I still don't see the point in ranking them when logic and knowledge of the players will dictate who I will take when it's my turn to pick.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I use rankings to determine how well I expect a player to perform. Then I compare it to ADP to see where I can get steals.

 

[trader jake]

seriously

 

[bagger.]

After a few years of gaining experience, I don't see the need to personally rank any players.

During a draft we automatically look at value, determine remaining depth at positions, and mentally rank the players.

So the main reason is to help predict what other owners might do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how does creating your rankings project what other players will do?ADP does this for you.

and the main reason is not to predict other owners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ADP is useful. Rankings from the top sites are useful. I find that the vast majority of owners will follow the expert rankings or agree with most of them. I want to see where I differ from the pack and calculate where my target players may fall. Mock drafts help me decide what players are likely to fall where, and what strategy will suit me best for that year.I still don't see the point in ranking them when logic and knowledge of the players will dictate who I will take when it's my turn to pick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but how can you know the player's value if you do not do your own projections?

 

[Couch Potato]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"I'm Winston Wolfe. I solve problems.""Pretty please, with sugar on top... Clean the ####### car."

Love ya Winston.

 

[Musesboy]

After a few years of gaining experience, I don't see the need to personally rank any players.

During a draft we automatically look at value, determine remaining depth at positions, and mentally rank the players.

So the main reason is to help predict what other owners might do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how does creating your rankings project what other players will do?ADP does this for you.

and the main reason is not to predict other owners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ADP is useful. Rankings from the top sites are useful. I find that the vast majority of owners will follow the expert rankings or agree with most of them. I want to see where I differ from the pack and calculate where my target players may fall. Mock drafts help me decide what players are likely to fall where, and what strategy will suit me best for that year.I still don't see the point in ranking them when logic and knowledge of the players will dictate who I will take when it's my turn to pick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but how can you know the player's value if you do not do your own projections?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Instinct, feel, previous knowledge, my personal perception.Projections are just our guesses that are written down based on what we instinctively think.

 

[bagger.]

After a few years of gaining experience, I don't see the need to personally rank any players.

During a draft we automatically look at value, determine remaining depth at positions, and mentally rank the players.

So the main reason is to help predict what other owners might do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how does creating your rankings project what other players will do?ADP does this for you.

and the main reason is not to predict other owners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ADP is useful. Rankings from the top sites are useful. I find that the vast majority of owners will follow the expert rankings or agree with most of them. I want to see where I differ from the pack and calculate where my target players may fall. Mock drafts help me decide what players are likely to fall where, and what strategy will suit me best for that year.I still don't see the point in ranking them when logic and knowledge of the players will dictate who I will take when it's my turn to pick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but how can you know the player's value if you do not do your own projections?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Instinct, feel, previous knowledge, my personal perception.Projections are just our guesses that are written down based on what we instinctively think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

don't you find it difficult to remember what you think about 400+ players?don't you think looking at #s may give you results you would not expect with your perception but rather more clearly define what is reality?

my projections are much more than guesses written down.

 

[Musesboy]

After a few years of gaining experience, I don't see the need to personally rank any players.

During a draft we automatically look at value, determine remaining depth at positions, and mentally rank the players.

So the main reason is to help predict what other owners might do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how does creating your rankings project what other players will do?ADP does this for you.

and the main reason is not to predict other owners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ADP is useful. Rankings from the top sites are useful. I find that the vast majority of owners will follow the expert rankings or agree with most of them. I want to see where I differ from the pack and calculate where my target players may fall. Mock drafts help me decide what players are likely to fall where, and what strategy will suit me best for that year.I still don't see the point in ranking them when logic and knowledge of the players will dictate who I will take when it's my turn to pick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but how can you know the player's value if you do not do your own projections?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Instinct, feel, previous knowledge, my personal perception.Projections are just our guesses that are written down based on what we instinctively think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

don't you find it difficult to remember what you think about 400+ players?don't you think looking at #s may give you results you would not expect with your perception but rather more clearly define what is reality?

my projections are much more than guesses written down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I take your point and I used to make detailed projections. But after a while I realized that I always seemed to know what to do at each pick in my drafts without resorting to all that detailed information. I had my most successful season by far last year simply by relying on my knowledge and instincts (guesses). It works for me but I accept that it is fun to come up with definite values by doing projections.

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

Winston Wolfe,

Humble Low and Ignorant Insane me came into Fantasy Football the same year that Ricky Williams and Edgerrin James entered the NFL, and the *DARK ONE* who had tricked me into joining a FF League back then still smiles at my addiction to this day...so to speak whilst ing.

The *DARK ONE* has been playing Fantasy Football since the late 1800’s, and even once used a form of the infamous “Pony Express” (the real Pony Express had closed down just before American Football started) to receive football news and rankings. News and rankings remained slow for the next one-hundred-years or so, and then computers and the Internet and email suddenly showed up. Imagine playing Fantasy Football with tools like a form of the infamous “Pony Express”, or waiting for a train to bring news and rankings, or waiting for a telegraph message to deliver news and rankings, or maybe a phone call, or a newspaper to arrive, or for “Snail-Mail” to arrive, etcetera...so to speak of what the *SPEED* of the Internet brought and brings to Fantasy Football.

OK...OK...OK, my point i shall now get to. It was not easy for the *DARK ONE* to play Fantasy Soccer, or Fantasy Rugby, or even the fledgling Fantasy Football back between 1860 and 1876, and it wasn’t much easier when the price for a computer started dropping in 1992 (if some 3-4 thousand Gringo Dollars computer was actually a drop). Yes, info is important...news is important...experience helps a lot, both yours and that of others...and, that brings us to advice, counsel, and etcetera. However, a FF Team Owner/GM/Coach must stand on his or hers *OWN* at some point, if winning Championships counts at all, and thus *LUCK*...and, especially *GUT* now enters into ‘Da Answer that i now ‘Paint’...so to speak of the *DARK ONE* providing the importance of the *LUCK* part.

The *DARK ONE* may smile at my rather obvious addiction, and i Thank Him for the wise and experienced advice about *LUCK* being involved; however, to the best of my humble knowledge, the *DARK ONE* has never won a FF Championship, and disappeared (until last year) after he watched me win 3 in my first two years (in leagues with him). i think that i taught him about *GUT*...so to speak of the two of us now being even.

Gut is about picking Stephen Davis, Warner, Denver’s Gary and Anderson and Portis even after most had missed Davis, Steve Smith, and etcetera. Heck, there was barely any news on RB’s Willie Parker and Samkon Gado last year, and they both certainly went unranked by most all. Sure...humble me uses news, ranking services, advice, experience, Luck (BTW, there is also “Bad” Luck for those who depend upon such), and any advantage that my *GUT* can gather (even message boards and such)...so to speak of 'Thangs not readily available back in the late 1800's.

BTW...Great Thread, Winston Wolfe!!! Thanks,

Yoda

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

Every year when the rankings come out the same question is asked and confusion is abound.

"What is the basis for these rankings? The order you would draft them in, where you think their stats will rank at the end of the season, or based on a plethora of information, here is how I value the players?"

IMO, rankings that are done under any other criteria than perceived value are USELESS.  I might be in the minority, but I WANT to know where the staff values a certain player. 

If I want to know when to draft a player, I will study the most recent ADP.  While year end statistics are nice, who has more value on draft day:  Player A who scores 100 pts in 16 games, or the Player B who is a backup who might score 90 pts in 6 games because someone gets hurt?

Variance from ADP can be a good thing if you have solid reasoning, while being a slave to ADP creates a hive mentality, which can sometimes be a bad thing if you follow it, but can be used to your benefit if you go against it.

Where does everyone stand on this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rankings should not tell you when to draft a player but let you know how many fantasy points to expect from them over the course of the season. Like you say there are many instances where players' PPG is more important than total points and by the time your draft comes around there should be no further quantitative calculations but rather all qualitative judgements, one of those being when to target players versus their ADP.Knowing when to wait on positions and when to strike is imperative in a draft, but more importantly knowing when runs occur and how many of each position will drop off from pick to pick. Once you know your draft position you should be able to form a loose collection of players that will make up your team before the first person has even gone on the clock.

Exploiting the inefficiencies of the draft where someone you rank high has a low ADP and knowing how long you can (or cannot) afford to wait on certain positions is the easiest way to crush your draft. It has nothing to do with baselines.

I should add that rankings by themselves are worthless if you do not have the underlying projected fantasy points behind them as often the difference between the #8 RB - #12 RB can be less than 2 PPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about injuries??? That falls under "Luck"..."Bad".

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

I take many sites rankings as a starting guideline for my own rankings.

My own rankings reflect where I will draft a player in comparison to the others of the same position.

I usually set my top 20 overall, just before the draft.  9 times out of 10 in a 10-12 team draft, I will get 3 of my top 20.

Using this method has landed a top prize for 3 straight years and probably top 3 in the last 10 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Said!!! Then there is Free Agency...so to speak of a "starting guideline".

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

Instinct, feel, previous knowledge, my personal perception.

We're talking *GUT* here. Hit me again, and triple that last dose!!!

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

*SNIP*

my projections are much more than guesses written down.

Yeah, right...

 

[Z-Dog]

After a few years of gaining experience, I don't see the need to personally rank any players.

During a draft we automatically look at value, determine remaining depth at positions, and mentally rank the players.

So the main reason is to help predict what other owners might do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how does creating your rankings project what other players will do?ADP does this for you.

and the main reason is not to predict other owners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ADP is useful. Rankings from the top sites are useful. I find that the vast majority of owners will follow the expert rankings or agree with most of them. I want to see where I differ from the pack and calculate where my target players may fall. Mock drafts help me decide what players are likely to fall where, and what strategy will suit me best for that year.I still don't see the point in ranking them when logic and knowledge of the players will dictate who I will take when it's my turn to pick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but how can you know the player's value if you do not do your own projections?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Instinct, feel, previous knowledge, my personal perception.Projections are just our guesses that are written down based on what we instinctively think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

don't you find it difficult to remember what you think about 400+ players?don't you think looking at #s may give you results you would not expect with your perception but rather more clearly define what is reality?

my projections are much more than guesses written down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whether you write down exact projections or have your rankings fully memorized projections NEVER define reality. They are simply guesses, some more formal than others. I personally used to slavishly do very elaborate rankings, and that worked great. Nowadays, I use a tiering system and don't project FPs at all. Both systems can be effective - what's important is that you do a good job of risk evaluation and management, and that you are more frequently right about player production than other owners. The first skill is the easier one to learn, and by far the more important one.

 

[Riffraff]

They are but diary entries.

Random thoughts written down at a specific moment in time.

Often filled with too much emotion and not enough reality.

But fun to look at after a few years have passed.

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

Enough said, huh.

i shall be here for a few more minutes, so think about Dom (back him up), and pick Denver's Mike Bell for kicks.

180...179...178...177...

Yoda

 

[Yoda of the JediKnights]

Enough said, huh.

i shall be here for a few more minutes, so think about Dom (back him up), and pick Denver's Mike Bell for kicks. 

180...179...178...177...

Yoda

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

10...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2...1...

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

rankings are considered year-end projections, but also must take into account a range of possible outcomes and injury risk for a player.

in general, they should reflect the value you place on a player and thus can be useful as a type of cheatsheet, provided that ADP info is take into account. obviously, if you think someone will finish as a top-5 QB but his ADP suggests that you can get him as QB15, then you should not draft him as the 5th QB off the board. Thus, these aren't "cheatsheets" per se.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with Aaron here.The main utility I find in the rankings is NOT from being aligned with one another, but looking at what players stand out as out of the ordinary from the norm.

Why do I have Zach Hilton so high? Why is Edge so low? Who is Cedric Cobbs?

That's what I really get out of them most of all, especially this time of year. As the season nears, I lean more on mock drafts and ADP and use rankings as a secondary sanity check.