bueno
In a class by himself
The decision as to whether a state was free or slave was up to the state - not the federal government.
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What does the confederate flag mean to you? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter oddball
- Start date
Mike Anderson
Footballguy
I agree in the sense that Lee was a good man, no big deal being his decendant.However, if my Name were Hitler, and it was Uncle Adolf in the family tree, I doubt I would saddle my kids with that name.Rhino said:
Running with scissors
Stark Raving Sane
Don't care at all...
Canada
Canada
Orange Crush
Footballguy
So the belief that the U.S. Constitution ensured certain rights like, I dunno, life and liberty, to all citizens wasn't valid? Oh, right. Slaves weren't citizens. They were property.
Mike Anderson
Footballguy
A few years back I ran a 175 year old Private club in Indianapolis. One of the Larger Banquet rooms had 100+ year old tile work with the Swastika all through the pattern. When it was put in, it was honestly an Irish (This was a Strong Irish Democrat Organization at it's conception) symbol for Good Harvest or something like that. The Swastikas caused problems with an number of Groups seeking Banquet facilities over the three years I was there. Luckily we had lots of Banquet space, but we did have to juggle rooms from time to time.
jonessed
Footballguy
He just said it was up to the state at the time. Which is a fact. Don't get your panties in a wad.Southern pride/rebellious natureIt obviously has racist overtones, but that's not the first thing that comes to mind when I see it. I don't have much connection with the South though.CA
perry147
Footballguy
Go back and read where his post was first posted (In response to my post). The federal government wanted to outlaw slavery was a principle reason for the civil war.
toshiba
Footballguy
Actually it became about that, it was not originally about that. It was an issue of the time, but Lincoln would have rather kept Slavery legal then to fight the Civil War. It was only after he needed a cause and momentum did the focus change. The South succeeded from the Union because of economic reasons beyond slavery, terrifs had a big deal to do with it.As a New Yorker with very high military ancestory in the Union Army, I have pride in my family, so I can understand those who feel shame for theirs.
jonessed
Footballguy
I know, but at the time it was up to the state. He can come in and clarify I suppose.Go back and read where his post was first posted (In response to my post). The federal government wanted to outlaw slavery was a principle reason for the civil war.
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The Royal Jack
Footballguy
Christian FlagAll the Baptist churches I've ever been to have these flags in the sanctuary next to the American flag. I guess other churches might use it as well.
People were not exactly happy to have the guy flying this prominently in his front yard due to concerns over property values. I guess really a big flag pole in your front yard is not a good location for any flag.
saintfool
Dead sexy
Slightly misleading, I think. The Missouri Compromise in 1820 made it a federal decision and outlawed slavery in the new territories. The Kansas-Nebraska Act, later, directly contradicted this by allowing "popular sovereignty" along the territories the decision. That decision was not "do you want slaves and slavery allowed?" but rather "do you want to decide what you do with your personal property?". couching this argument terms of personal property instead of pro- or anti-slavery is pretty slick.southern states were fighting to allow the expansion of slavery into these new territories. i think not so much as true believers in the institution of slavery but rather as it would allow them to exapnd their infuence in the gov't. as it stood, they were in great danger of being marginalized politically. 1820 was the first step in that direction. 1850's compromise had to have been scary. the Kansas-Nebraska act was clearly a victory for the southern states and only brought the tension between the southern bloc and the rest of the country to a head.
Apes with Guns
Footballguy
To me, the confederate flag means either a good price on some sort of animal carcass, or a place to buy both bullets and alcohol.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
That certainly was the opinion of some back then, true.As for the confederate flag, it's part of our history and I don't see the big deal. To me, it's a more important symbol of our history then, say, the Kwanza flag that is flown above the American flag at my old college (or at least it was when the former president was there - don't know if the new one allows it).
Apes with Guns
Footballguy
My word association with the confederate flag is almost always "FREEBIRD!!" Not sure why...
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Not quite.
rolyaTy
You're Heinous
I've lived in the south, texas and louisiana, my whole life and have known quite a few people who flew the confederate flag.
Generally, they were rednecks who really didn't like black people. That's primarily the type of people I think of when I see someone displaying the confederate flag proudly and ostentatiously.
Others might just like it as a throwback to a time where states had more power than the federal government, and not meaning anything specific about slavery or minorities in general.
Generally, they were rednecks who really didn't like black people. That's primarily the type of people I think of when I see someone displaying the confederate flag proudly and ostentatiously.
Others might just like it as a throwback to a time where states had more power than the federal government, and not meaning anything specific about slavery or minorities in general.
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Seriously? Where is this and how was it received?
dawgtrails
Footballguy
When I see someone flying a flag, and flag, one word comes to mind.
Tool.
Tool.
saintfool
Dead sexy
Grambling? Moorehouse? NC A & T? TSU?
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
South Jersey. The former president of my undergrad college was a cousin of Martin Luther King. And yes, when it was Kwanza time, the Kwanza flag flew in the middle pole above the American flag and the state flag.I complained, and I'm pretty sure a few groups complained, but it didn't go anywhere. Like I said, not sure if they do it anymore.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I'm from Florida. The confederate flag usually means that you are now at least 20 miles from the beaches. Not every racist I know likes the confederate flag. And I'm sure not all people who like the flag are racists. But it's far to big an intersection too dismiss.
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opticution
Footballguy
The swastika was hijacked by Nazis. How do you feel about showing that puppy off?
Delusions Of Adequacy
Footballguy
To me it's symbolic of a time and place so racist [confederate states, mid 19th century] that seccession and war were not considered unreasonable in order to keep black people as property.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
What a lame fake story.[/Loan Sharks]
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Why would I lie?[/Yankee23fan]
shamrock84
Footballguy
I know I'm jumping into the game a bit late here but what the hell.
To me the confederate flag = racism and ignorant rednecks.
PS - I don't like anybody who has one.
To me the confederate flag = racism and ignorant rednecks.
PS - I don't like anybody who has one.
RoarinSonoran
Footballguy
Would you do this because you don't like the flag, or honestly because you feel it's an illegal flag pole? In other words, would you give a rat's butt if he had an American flag flying instead?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Good point.
njxbean
Footballguy
ditto. i dont like them one bit. but i live and grew up in jersey, dont see them much up here.
The white guilt is strong in this one.
That's just plain wrong.Go back and read where his post was first posted (In response to my post). The federal government wanted to outlaw slavery was a principle reason for the civil war.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Conferderate flag flying means one of two things to me: someone showing extreme pride in states rights or racism.
Unfortunately, it's been my experience that 90% of the folks flying the flag have never read the Constitution and have little actual knowledge of the power struggle between federal and state gov'ts.
From rural, southwestern Virginia.
Unfortunately, it's been my experience that 90% of the folks flying the flag have never read the Constitution and have little actual knowledge of the power struggle between federal and state gov'ts.
From rural, southwestern Virginia.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Touche'
oddball
Smart
I wouldn't mind if they were flying an American flag at all. I also wouldn't mind if they were flying a Canadian flag, Brazilian flag, or a Turkish flag(as long as an American flag was flying above them). Should I go to the house and introduce myself to the owner of the house? Get to know the owner of the house a little? Understand his ideaology, his philosophy of life, his inner workings? Make a judgement on the man, not the symbol he chooses to flaunt?Maybe I should
the property so everyone can see what I'm talking about...Louisiana.
To me, the flag itself means history. Those that understand the history behind the flag understand that the Civil War was about alot more then slavery. I am proud to be from the South, but it has little if anything to do with the Civil War.
Today, the public displaying of the flag in my experience demonstrats alot more negative opinions then it does pride. In my experience those publically displaying the flag today feel that the Civil War was about slavery and thats what the flag represents to them. Many displaying the flag will say its about Southern Pride, but in my experience when you get to the core of what they are calling Southern Pride is White Southern Pride and excludes all other.
To me, the flag itself means history. Those that understand the history behind the flag understand that the Civil War was about alot more then slavery. I am proud to be from the South, but it has little if anything to do with the Civil War.
Today, the public displaying of the flag in my experience demonstrats alot more negative opinions then it does pride. In my experience those publically displaying the flag today feel that the Civil War was about slavery and thats what the flag represents to them. Many displaying the flag will say its about Southern Pride, but in my experience when you get to the core of what they are calling Southern Pride is White Southern Pride and excludes all other.
RoarinSonoran
Footballguy
Ok, you win, I'm a racist. I fly my First National flag and my ignorant black neighbor (a retired teacher no less) couldn't care less. I'd spread some grass killer around her yard to spell out naughty words, but she has desert landscaping (gravel). 
Phew, now that that's out of the way.
The South doesn't own the trademark on racism. Slaves were owned in the North. Northern states enacted laws that basically said "yes, you blacks can live free!!! But not in our state.
:keepout:". West Virginia, illegally carved from Virginia, joined the Union during the War as a slave state. And on and on.
As for the flag, as previously mentioned, Old Glory flew over slavery for a hundred years. All slave ships flew the American flag. In the '20s, the KKK marched with American flags, and still do today. They only co-opted the Rebel Flag in the '60s because it was the 100th Anniversary of the War, and flying them at that time was as popular as flying the Bicentennial flag was in 1976.
It's heritage, not hate. Allow us to remember our ancestors as we wish, without all the politically-correct
.
ETA: and yes, I do understand the symbolism of the Rebel Flag. That's why I fly the First National instead. But that doesn't mean I won't wear my SCV tshirts that have the Rebel Flag.
ETA2: I hail from the former Confederate Territory of Arizona.
My great-grandfather, a Confederate veteran, was from Alabama.
Phew, now that that's out of the way.
The South doesn't own the trademark on racism. Slaves were owned in the North. Northern states enacted laws that basically said "yes, you blacks can live free!!! But not in our state.
:keepout:". West Virginia, illegally carved from Virginia, joined the Union during the War as a slave state. And on and on.As for the flag, as previously mentioned, Old Glory flew over slavery for a hundred years. All slave ships flew the American flag. In the '20s, the KKK marched with American flags, and still do today. They only co-opted the Rebel Flag in the '60s because it was the 100th Anniversary of the War, and flying them at that time was as popular as flying the Bicentennial flag was in 1976.
It's heritage, not hate. Allow us to remember our ancestors as we wish, without all the politically-correct
.ETA: and yes, I do understand the symbolism of the Rebel Flag. That's why I fly the First National instead. But that doesn't mean I won't wear my SCV tshirts that have the Rebel Flag.
ETA2: I hail from the former Confederate Territory of Arizona.
My great-grandfather, a Confederate veteran, was from Alabama.
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Mjolnirs
Footballguy
Actually this isn't a bad idea. You will either find what you expect and be treated rudely by an ignorant person that is flying the flag for what I consider all of the wrong reasons, or you will find someone like myself that will gladly explain their point of view in a civilized manner in hopes of sharing an educational experience.Personally the home made flagpole makes me think you will get the former. I have a 30 foot telescoping flagpole in my yard and I fly a variety of flags. I also have a state issued SCV license plate (go here and search for 'confederate') on my car.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I certainly respect your right to fly the flag of your choice Roarin. Just as I'm sure you respect my right to form an opinion of you based on the flag you choose to fly.It's heritage, not hate. Allow us to remember our ancestors as we wish, without all the politically-correct
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
It's a cool looking flag and it's a shame that:
A) It's been corrputed by modern day hate groups.
AND
B) It's been demonized by modern day PC thugs.
I don't automatically assume that everyone flying the Stars and Bars is a racist.
A) It's been corrputed by modern day hate groups.
AND
B) It's been demonized by modern day PC thugs.
I don't automatically assume that everyone flying the Stars and Bars is a racist.
Schlzm
Footballguy
Fixed.Schlzm
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Neither do I. Kinda strange how often that turns out to be the case though.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
"YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWW!!!!!"
Saints-Man
Footballguy
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