What does the confederate flag mean to you? (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

 

[TheIronSheik]

One of my favorite thing about these types of arguments is how people forget certain facts. The South was bad because they wanted slavery. Forget that slavery was cool for everyone not much before that. Forget that the north actually liked the South having slavery because it helped their bottom line in textiles.

It's so easy to think the South were these terrible human beings who did such horrible things.

By modern standards, pretty much everybody was terrible back then. It wouldn't surprise me if, 150 years from now, folks looked back on us similarly.

I'm not arguing for judging everyone by today's climate. Thomas Jefferson, for example, deserves to be celebrated despite the fact that he owned slaves. And even despite the fact that YF23 hates him with the heat of a thousand suns. No issues there. But let's not celebrate the leaders who fought against this nation and who planted their flag on the side of human bondage when push came to shove. That's not really asking too much or setting an unreasonably high bar.

I agree. I'm not defending the flag fliers at all. My issue is when people look at it as a good vs. evil fight. Or in a way where they use today's standards as the measuring stick, like how everyone hates Christopher Columbus now because of who he was then. My point to what I wrote was simply that I find it funny that people love to say that the South was evil because they were slave owners. To me, that's just funny to hear.

 

[TobiasFunke]

One of my favorite thing about these types of arguments is how people forget certain facts. The South was bad because they wanted slavery. Forget that slavery was cool for everyone not much before that. Forget that the north actually liked the South having slavery because it helped their bottom line in textiles.

It's so easy to think the South were these terrible human beings who did such horrible things.

By modern standards, pretty much everybody was terrible back then. It wouldn't surprise me if, 150 years from now, folks looked back on us similarly.

I'm not arguing for judging everyone by today's climate. Thomas Jefferson, for example, deserves to be celebrated despite the fact that he owned slaves. And even despite the fact that YF23 hates him with the heat of a thousand suns. No issues there. But let's not celebrate the leaders who fought against this nation and who planted their flag on the side of human bondage when push came to shove. That's not really asking too much or setting an unreasonably high bar.

I agree. I'm not defending the flag fliers at all. My issue is when people look at it as a good vs. evil fight. Or in a way where they use today's standards as the measuring stick, like how everyone hates Christopher Columbus now because of who he was then. My point to what I wrote was simply that I find it funny that people love to say that the South was evil because they were slave owners. To me, that's just funny to hear.

I think people are saying the south was evil because they fought for slavery well after the point that many other people had figured out it was really, really bad. It's the resistance to an obvious change for the better that puts people in the wrong. It's the reason many people condemn someone who beats on their kid now while we give our parents' generation a pass for doing the same thing. Or how someone who opposes gay marriage five years from now will be condemned much more strongly than someone who opposed it a decade ago. Or how we're much more troubled by a messy, unkempt bush now then men were in the 70s.

 

[TheIronSheik]

One of my favorite thing about these types of arguments is how people forget certain facts. The South was bad because they wanted slavery. Forget that slavery was cool for everyone not much before that. Forget that the north actually liked the South having slavery because it helped their bottom line in textiles.

It's so easy to think the South were these terrible human beings who did such horrible things.

By modern standards, pretty much everybody was terrible back then. It wouldn't surprise me if, 150 years from now, folks looked back on us similarly.

I'm not arguing for judging everyone by today's climate. Thomas Jefferson, for example, deserves to be celebrated despite the fact that he owned slaves. And even despite the fact that YF23 hates him with the heat of a thousand suns. No issues there. But let's not celebrate the leaders who fought against this nation and who planted their flag on the side of human bondage when push came to shove. That's not really asking too much or setting an unreasonably high bar.

I agree. I'm not defending the flag fliers at all. My issue is when people look at it as a good vs. evil fight. Or in a way where they use today's standards as the measuring stick, like how everyone hates Christopher Columbus now because of who he was then. My point to what I wrote was simply that I find it funny that people love to say that the South was evil because they were slave owners. To me, that's just funny to hear.

I think people are saying the south was evil because they fought for slavery well after the point that many other people had figured out it was really, really bad. It's the resistance to an obvious change for the better that puts people in the wrong. It's the reason many people condemn someone who beats on their kid now while we give our parents' generation a pass for doing the same thing. Or how someone who opposes gay marriage five years from now will be condemned much more strongly than someone who opposed it a decade ago. Or how we're much more troubled by a messy, unkempt bush now then men were in the 70s.

Again, I didn't say the South wasn't bad for fighting for slaves. I'm not sure who would ever say something like that, really. What I'm saying is that it's like two people smoking crack, then one person quits and turns to the other person and tells them they need to get off the pipe because drugs are bad for them. People keep making the North out to be this noble place that it really wasn't. It's great that we all eventually came around to abolishing slavery, but the fact remains that we all were guilty of it at some point.

 

[matttyl]

A well written article about the topic of this thread, with a bit of a history lesson along with it. It's a good, short read.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The piece about Tillman should highlight that 1890-1899 period, that's when Jim Crow really started to take hold. The confederate flag went up over the SC capitol dome in 1961, obviously during the segregation crisis. Before that other commemorations had occurred during much of the Jim Crow era but then again during the civil rights era. Mississippi added in its flag emblem into its flag in 1894. Alabama's flag was adopted 1895. Florida added its red cross in 1900. Tennessee adopted its flag with confederate stylings in 1905. Georgia was 1956. Arkansas added its fourth star in its flag in 1923, but it was reaffirmed in 1987. SC moved the flag from the dome but put it in from of the capitol in 2000.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/21/how-the-confederacy-lives-on-in-the-flags-of-seven-southern-states/

These are the years of the flag changes from what I can tell.

You might as well add my avatar."The flag that flies over the state of South Carolina today is of the same design that flew over the independent South Carolina during the Civil War."

What's funny about this is that if SC wanted to commemorate their history in the CW they could have just flown their state flag, which they do everywhere, instead of the battle flag. In 2000 so many SC Democrats, and Democrats nationally supported moving the flag to the front of the capitol... because it was coming off the dome. They could have switched flags at the same time.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

A well written article about the topic of this thread, with a bit of a history lesson along with it. It's a good, short read.

I think this is the first time I've read this:

In 1861, a Walterboro, S.C. native and ardent secessionist named William Porcher Miles designed a flag which he hoped would be adopted by the Confederacy. It wasn’t. It did, however, become a Confederate battle flag. This banner – often mistakenly referred to as the “Stars and Bars” – is officially referred to as the “Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia,” and it is the flag at the heart of the 2015 controversy.

I suppose that's one reason it happened in 1961 specifically (aside from the civil rights issues of the time), it was the 100th anniversary of the flag being created and of the war itself.

I see at least 5-6 variations they had to choose from. One thing that occurs to me though is that the actual confederate national flag would not have been appropriate or was not considered such in 1961 because that would have been actual defiance of the US government, the battle flag was likely seen as a way to express resistance without actually rising to the level of treason. It's otherwise hard to understand why the battle flag has been so popular over the (real) Stars & Bars over time.

 

[JZilla]

A well written article about the topic of this thread, with a bit of a history lesson along with it. It's a good, short read.

I think this is the first time I've read this:

In 1861, a Walterboro, S.C. native and ardent secessionist named William Porcher Miles designed a flag which he hoped would be adopted by the Confederacy. It wasn’t. It did, however, become a Confederate battle flag. This banner – often mistakenly referred to as the “Stars and Bars” – is officially referred to as the “Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia,” and it is the flag at the heart of the 2015 controversy.

I suppose that's one reason it happened in 1961 specifically (aside from the civil rights issues of the time), it was the 100th anniversary of the flag being created and of the war itself.

I see at least 5-6 variations they had to choose from. One thing that occurs to me though is that the actual confederate national flag would not have been appropriate or was not considered such in 1961 because that would have been actual defiance of the US government, the battle flag was likely seen as a way to express resistance without actually rising to the level of treason. It's otherwise hard to understand why the battle flag has been so popular over the (real) Stars & Bars over time.

Looks better on a belt buckle, or a Dodge Charger

 

[TPW]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

What I love about this is how last week Apple's thoughts and marketing were likely, "historical depiction, relive history", and this week it's "Not us!"

I guess Battle Cry is still available, no flag of evil on its cover, I guess that's the difference.

 

[TPW]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

What I love about this is how last week Apple's thoughts and marketing were likely, "historical depiction, relive history", and this week it's "Not us!"

I guess Battle Cry is still available, no flag of evil on its cover, I guess that's the difference.

I guess I just will never understand. I have no love for the Confederate battle flag just like I have no love for the Blood Banner of the Third Reich or the Hammer and Sickle of the Soviet Union. But they existed. Completely wiping their images from the public sphere doesn't change that fact and the argument can be made that it actually makes us more susceptible to future tyranny. Those who can't, or won't, learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Why the Deliberate Focus on the Confederate Flag is Derailing the Real Conversation About Race in AmericaDo not adjust your screen. That is not the Confederate flag. In 1976, Black attorney Ted Landsmark was speared with the other red, white and blue flag in Boston. Racist rage over school desegregation and busing impaled Landsmark. These white Bostonians harbored anxieties similar to those attributed to suspected South Carolina killer Dylann Storm Roof. Both parties loathed the prospect of Black children being educated alongside whites and rejected nonviolence.

But no one blamed the Boston assault on Old Glory. The Confederate flag has been less fortunate.

After failures to indict the white killers of Eric Garner, Michael Brown Jr., John Crawford III and untold Black victims, the secessionist battle flag is a convicted racist. For the first time in history, a flagpole is under the bus.

Mitt Romney, South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, South Carolina State Rep. Doug Brannon and a host of “well-meaning” whites have made the Confederate flag an accomplice in the Mother Emanuel AME massacre. This insulting façade obscures the pathology of white culture, which guarantees the production of Dylan Storm Roofs and complementary white power paraphernalia.

To remove the Confederate flag from the South Carolina state house would require walking past the monument to former governor, United States senator, co-founder of Clemson University and “anti-Black terrorist” Benjamin “Pitchfork” Tillman. Cynthia R. Greenlee describes Tillman as one of Roof’s “spiritual ancestors,” who was equally unhinged about the prospect of “Black men and white women in ‘sexual congress.’” In a 1909 speech, Tillman makes his views crystal clear, pledging support for “terrorizing the Negroes at the first opportunity by letting them provoke trouble and then having the whites demonstrate their superiority by killing as many of them as was justifiable.”

Tillman’s white supremacist vision is cherished and protected throughout the Palmetto State. Campaigns to remove his statue and rename buildings brandishing his name on the campuses of Winthrop University and Clemson were categorically defeated earlier this year. The shrines and legacy of “Pitchfork” Ben remain secure and above culpability for the Emanuel 9 slaughter.

Tillman’s political ancestors, Gov. Haley and State Sen. Paul Thurmond, charge that for some, the Confederate battle flag represents a “symbol of war, hate and divisiveness.” But the senator’s surname, the South Carolina landscape and world history leech any possible sincerity from these charges. The senator’s father, Strom Thurmond, is a kindred spirit of the South Carolina gunman; Strom Thurmond devoted nearly a half-century to the U.S. Senate in service of white power. The elder Thurmond also earned a monument at the State Capitol, which has escaped condemnation and calls to be scrapped.

The white hue and cry targeting the flag has also omitted The Citadel. Emanuel AME pastor and State Sen. the Rev. Clementa Pinckney discussed the history and formation of the South Carolina military academy: “The [Citadel] guns were pointed in the direction of where the members of Mother Emanuel lived. Just in case there was another [black] insurrection, the state was ready.” The research of historian and author David Robertson substantiates Pinckney. Robertson documents that The Citadel was purposely constructed as an institutional force to “protect the white citizens against” Black liberation.

Evidence that the academy has sustained allegiance to its anti-Black foundation points to the rejection of Black cadets until 1966. A bestselling book and major motion picture, The Lords of Discipline, are allegedly based on the horrors of a Black cadet who “was tortured by a white-supremacist group.”

In 1992, Rick Reilly penned a comprehensive, contested report on the academy. His essay suggests The Citadel would be a comfortable, familiar environment for Dylann Storm Roof. Reilly writes:

“In 1986 five white cadets went into the bunk room of black freshman Kevin Nesmith, the brother of the only black member of the board of visitors. Wearing sheets – and pillowcases over their heads – and holding a burning paper cross, they mumbled Nesmith’s name and uttered racial obscenities. Today all five of his assailants wear the Citadel ring.”

Reilly cites a 1988 planning report, which “found that 56% of black cadets… said they were discriminated against ‘because of their race.’” During the early ’90s, The Citadel convened a study of “race relations” on campus. They “recommended that the playing of Dixie and the waving of Confederate flags at football games be discouraged.” Not prohibited. To demonstrate the union between The Citadel, the Confederate flag and white pride, Reilly offered this anecdote:

“At a Friday lunch last year a senior announced the Senior of the Week award. It went to the cadet who had climbed 700 feet up the Channel 2 tower in Charleston to hang the Confederate flag. Cheers rocked the mess hall…”

It’s effortless to envision Roof in the raucous crowd.

Incidentally, it’s widely acknowledged that the military college of Francis Underwood, Kevin Spacey’s character on the Netflix smash, House of Cards, is the television version of The Citadel.

Will Mitt Romney, Sen. Brannon and the white folks who’ve denounced the racist symbolism of the Confederate flag provide an equal rebuke of The Citadel?

Or South Carolina’s J. Marion Sims?

Former president of the American Medical Association and “father of modern gynecology,” Sims and Roof are simpatico in their appraisal of Black life. Harriet A. Washington’s seminal publication, Medical Apartheid, records how his “vigorous defense of the slavery system had been liberally seasoned with ‘n-gger.’” Washington reveals Sims’ “penchant for taking shoemakers’ tools to Black infants’ skulls.” Roof’s forefather “bought Black women slaves and addicted them to morphine in order to perform dozens of exquisitely painful, distressingly intimate ######l surgeries.”

The S.C. State Capitol deemed Sims worthy of a memorial.

But white supremacy is not singularly Roof or South Carolina. Sims has monuments in Alabama and Central Park in New York because white domination and contempt for Black life are dominant global concepts. France Winddance Twine submits that we are inundated with sanctified markers of racial terror and white power. Many of these symbols are unabashedly adored because of their connection to anti-Blackness and white rule.

Earlier this year, President Barack Obama, global dignitaries and a hoard of good white folks celebrated the 50-year anniversary of the sadistic beating of Black demonstrators in Alabama. Many are aware that “Bloody Sunday” occurred on Selma’s Edmund Pettus Bridge. Apparently, a significant number of Selma natives are unaware that this “hallowed” structure is named after “the head of the most notorious white terrorist group in Alabama probably up until the civil rights movement.” University of Alabama historian John Giggie confirms that this bridge – constructed in 1940 – is one of countless edifices, flags and icons unabashedly dedicated to white power. Whites in Selma calculated to broadcast a naked, flagrant signal: “They wanted to stamp that [bridge] with this vision of the South as very much as… a world dedicated to white supremacy.”

Jack Townes is a Selma native, 21, and Black. After discovering the namesake of the bridge, Townes and a group of activists labored to rename the structure.

Pardon the redundancy.

They failed. Edmund Pettus Bridge remains because the manifesto attributed to Roof states correctly that, “Blacks are subconsciously viewed by white people [as] lower beings.” Which necessitates a world dedicated to white supremacy. It’s insulting to reduce a concept that has ruled and contaminated this planet for centuries to a 21-year-old white boy and a glorified stitch of cloth.

North Carolina NAACP President the Rev. Dr. William Barber denounced the Confederate flag as vulgar, but added that, “To suggest… taking a symbol down is sufficient to honor nine deaths… is to diminish those lives.” The Rev. Barber recognizes 2015 anti-Black policies and practices that are far more hazardous than Civil War memorabilia. Discarding the Confederate flag leaves contemporary mechanisms of racism intact.

Flags don’t produce racism. White thoughts, speech and actions nourish and maintain white power. The removal of apartheid statues and “whites only” signs demonstrates that white people can efficiently preserve the systemic exploitation of Black people without blatant markers. It’s unlikely a South Carolina void of Confederate flags would have preserved and valued the lives of shooting victim Walter Scott or the Emanuel 9.

Dylann Roof is not a Confederate killer. He and Chris Kyle are American snipers, the most recent generation of white killers. At minimum, this tragedy should permanently clarify our grasp of white pathology and heighten our suspicion of all white folks. Even, those like Kyle, who insist that, “Americans [respect] houses of worship as sacred and therefore [are] reluctant to attack there.”

Gus T. Renegade is the host of The C.O.W.S. Talk Radio – a platform designed to dissect and counter racism. He has interviewed and researched authors, filmmakers and scholars from around the globe.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/06/24/deliberate-focus-confederate-flags-derailing-real-conversation-white-supremacy/

- Et tu, Bostion and New York, et tu, wherefor your TPS reports?

Does everyone think this goes too far? Anyone not?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Louis Farrakhan: 'We need to put the American flag down'Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan wants more than just the Confederate flag pulled down; he wants the American flag pulled down, too.

Farrakhan made the comments Wednesday at the Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, D.C.

“We need to put the American flag down because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag," he said.

“White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city; they don’t give a damn about them nine.” (WMAL)

He added that when the police took suspected shooter Dylann Roof to Burger King, they were saying, “You did a good job. Kill all them [expletive].”

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/louis-farrakhan-we-need-put-american-flag-down/nmknZ/

How do we feel about our Great Leap Forward today, pretty good?

 

[matttyl]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

How is this any different from a game I used to love, Company of Heroes (WW2 game) showing German/Nazi symbols?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

How is this any different from a game I used to love, Company of Heroes (WW2 game) showing German/Nazi symbols?

Because Twitter.

 

[urbanhack]

Louis Farrakhan: 'We need to put the American flag down'Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan wants more than just the Confederate flag pulled down; he wants the American flag pulled down, too.

Farrakhan made the comments Wednesday at the Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, D.C.

“We need to put the American flag down because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag," he said.

“White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city; they don’t give a damn about them nine.” (WMAL)

He added that when the police took suspected shooter Dylann Roof to Burger King, they were saying, “You did a good job. Kill all them [expletive].”

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/louis-farrakhan-we-need-put-american-flag-down/nmknZ/

How do we feel about our Great Leap Forward today, pretty good?

well that's pretty ####### stupid. Just like Ann Coulter, nobody should give this clown the time of day or any media attention.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Louis Farrakhan: 'We need to put the American flag down'Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan wants more than just the Confederate flag pulled down; he wants the American flag pulled down, too.

Farrakhan made the comments Wednesday at the Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, D.C.

“We need to put the American flag down because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag," he said.

“White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city; they don’t give a damn about them nine.” (WMAL)

He added that when the police took suspected shooter Dylann Roof to Burger King, they were saying, “You did a good job. Kill all them [expletive].”

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/louis-farrakhan-we-need-put-american-flag-down/nmknZ/

How do we feel about our Great Leap Forward today, pretty good?

well that's pretty ####### stupid. Just like Ann Coulter, nobody should give this clown the time of day or any media attention.

Well his call to action was published in the Atlanta Journal Constitution and WMAL is in DC.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Louis Farrakhan: 'We need to put the American flag down'Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan wants more than just the Confederate flag pulled down; he wants the American flag pulled down, too.

Farrakhan made the comments Wednesday at the Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, D.C.

“We need to put the American flag down because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag," he said.

“White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city; they don’t give a damn about them nine.” (WMAL)

He added that when the police took suspected shooter Dylann Roof to Burger King, they were saying, “You did a good job. Kill all them [expletive].”

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/louis-farrakhan-we-need-put-american-flag-down/nmknZ/

How do we feel about our Great Leap Forward today, pretty good?

Yes, because Farrakhan's opinion carries so much weight.

 

[Henry Ford]

California already has a problem with students having anything involving the American Flag. School districts have actually banned it and it's been upheld.

University of Irvine student council attempted to ban it from the campus.

It's only a matter of time, really.

OH BULL ####.

If you're talking about the 2010 Live Oak deal it was one incident at one school and it was about t-shirts (and I disagree with the 9th's decision) and the entire thing was a fuster cluck. Not to mention that there were some very specific circumstances in this case.

And the Irvine thing is a joke too. One small group of jagoff college kids (who will be embarrassed by this for the rest of their lives) do not represent California at all.

I apologize if I've caught you after a long day of discussing this topic and therefore am catching you in mid-froth...but I'm not really sure what set you off to start cussing at me. Can you tell me what was so inaccurate about my post?

A public school district in California banned students from wearing the American Flag. Context: On a single day during a single school-sponsored event at the school intended to celebrate a specific heritage, when there was reasonable belief that there would be a disruption of school activities on that day and there was an actual disruption of activities and safety over the matter the day that the school stopped them from wearing the Flag.

The Ninth District upheld the decision. On the basis that the school has not only the right, but the responsibility to avoid such disruptions

The Supreme Court recently denied hearing the argument...so...it's further upheld the decision. That's not what that really means

And UCI was not just some jagoff kids...it was the school's legislative council. And the executive council immediately vetoed that stupidity

So...you've got kids learning from K-12 that the flag is offensive and then college as well. Only really stupid kids. And really, the stuff they "learn" is almost random at this point

If you need further examples of what is and is not representative of California...two different schools that my own kids have gone and currently go to have also banned the American Flag as apparel especially during May because it's said to upset the hispanic students during Cinco de Mayo. Could you explain what this means? It's "banned" - "especially during May"? So you can't wear it at all, but then during the month of May you REALLY can't wear it?

 

[jonessed]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

That's absurd.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Louis Farrakhan: 'We need to put the American flag down'Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan wants more than just the Confederate flag pulled down; he wants the American flag pulled down, too.

Farrakhan made the comments Wednesday at the Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, D.C.

“We need to put the American flag down because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag," he said.

“White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city; they don’t give a damn about them nine.” (WMAL)

He added that when the police took suspected shooter Dylann Roof to Burger King, they were saying, “You did a good job. Kill all them [expletive].”

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/louis-farrakhan-we-need-put-american-flag-down/nmknZ/

How do we feel about our Great Leap Forward today, pretty good?

Yes, because Farrakhan's opinion carries so much weight.

Great, he is an extremist, definitely agree on that.

 

[Henry Ford]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

Wait, if this means getting rid of Texas completely, I'm in.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

On the other hand, I'm sure we can all agree that this is stupid overreach. Most likely Apple will do an about-face in a couple of days.

 

[Henry Ford]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

On the other hand, I'm sure we can all agree that this is stupid overreach. Most likely Apple will do an about-face in a couple of days.

Someone should ask Taylor Swift to get this fixed.

 

[joffer]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

On the other hand, I'm sure we can all agree that this is stupid overreach. Most likely Apple will do an about-face in a couple of days.

stupid is an understatement.

 

[matttyl]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

Well, my state flag (Virginia) shows both nudity and death. No one seems upset by either.

 

[Fennis]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

Well, my state flag (Virginia) shows both nudity and death. No one seems upset by either.

 

[matttyl]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

On the other hand, I'm sure we can all agree that this is stupid overreach. Most likely Apple will do an about-face in a couple of days.

I can, I'm not sure all here will. They would like all instances of the Confederacy removed.

 

[matttyl]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

Well, my state flag (Virginia) shows both nudity and death. No one seems upset by either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_and_seal_of_Virginia#/media/File:Flag_of_Virginia.svg

Yes, that is a female figure. It's Virginia's "Virtus". This flag was also made in 1861, at the start of the war, and was raised by at least a few Confederates during the war. While not created using any "Confederate symbols", it was a flag of a Confederate state created during their time of succession from the Union.

 

[Fennis]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

Well, my state flag (Virginia) shows both nudity and death. No one seems upset by either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_and_seal_of_Virginia#/media/File:Flag_of_Virginia.svg

Yes, that is a female figure. It's Virginia's "Virtus".

well that was a disappointment.

 

[Henry Ford]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

Well, my state flag (Virginia) shows both nudity and death. No one seems upset by either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_and_seal_of_Virginia#/media/File:Flag_of_Virginia.svg

Yes, that is a female figure. It's Virginia's "Virtus".

No, that's definitely the Swedish Chef.

 

[Jayrok]

That's quite an erection she's sporting there.

 

[matttyl]

That's quite an erection she's sporting there.

She identifies as a man?

It's actually a parazonium.

 

[Fennis]

"Sic semper tyrannis" actually means "Get your foot off my neck

LOL - I love state flag humor

 

[IC FBGCav]

http://www.bomanijones.com/lines/

From 2011, point 5 is spot on.

 

[timschochet]

Dumb move by Apple.

 

[moleculo]

Why the Deliberate Focus on the Confederate Flag is Derailing the Real Conversation About Race in AmericaDo not adjust your screen. That is not the Confederate flag. In 1976, Black attorney Ted Landsmark was speared with the other red, white and blue flag in Boston. Racist rage over school desegregation and busing impaled Landsmark. These white Bostonians harbored anxieties similar to those attributed to suspected South Carolina killer Dylann Storm Roof. Both parties loathed the prospect of Black children being educated alongside whites and rejected nonviolence.

But no one blamed the Boston assault on Old Glory. The Confederate flag has been less fortunate.

After failures to indict the white killers of Eric Garner, Michael Brown Jr., John Crawford III and untold Black victims, the secessionist battle flag is a convicted racist. For the first time in history, a flagpole is under the bus.

Mitt Romney, South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, South Carolina State Rep. Doug Brannon and a host of “well-meaning” whites have made the Confederate flag an accomplice in the Mother Emanuel AME massacre. This insulting façade obscures the pathology of white culture, which guarantees the production of Dylan Storm Roofs and complementary white power paraphernalia.

To remove the Confederate flag from the South Carolina state house would require walking past the monument to former governor, United States senator, co-founder of Clemson University and “anti-Black terrorist” Benjamin “Pitchfork” Tillman. Cynthia R. Greenlee describes Tillman as one of Roof’s “spiritual ancestors,” who was equally unhinged about the prospect of “Black men and white women in ‘sexual congress.’” In a 1909 speech, Tillman makes his views crystal clear, pledging support for “terrorizing the Negroes at the first opportunity by letting them provoke trouble and then having the whites demonstrate their superiority by killing as many of them as was justifiable.”

Tillman’s white supremacist vision is cherished and protected throughout the Palmetto State. Campaigns to remove his statue and rename buildings brandishing his name on the campuses of Winthrop University and Clemson were categorically defeated earlier this year. The shrines and legacy of “Pitchfork” Ben remain secure and above culpability for the Emanuel 9 slaughter.

Tillman’s political ancestors, Gov. Haley and State Sen. Paul Thurmond, charge that for some, the Confederate battle flag represents a “symbol of war, hate and divisiveness.” But the senator’s surname, the South Carolina landscape and world history leech any possible sincerity from these charges. The senator’s father, Strom Thurmond, is a kindred spirit of the South Carolina gunman; Strom Thurmond devoted nearly a half-century to the U.S. Senate in service of white power. The elder Thurmond also earned a monument at the State Capitol, which has escaped condemnation and calls to be scrapped.

The white hue and cry targeting the flag has also omitted The Citadel. Emanuel AME pastor and State Sen. the Rev. Clementa Pinckney discussed the history and formation of the South Carolina military academy: “The [Citadel] guns were pointed in the direction of where the members of Mother Emanuel lived. Just in case there was another [black] insurrection, the state was ready.” The research of historian and author David Robertson substantiates Pinckney. Robertson documents that The Citadel was purposely constructed as an institutional force to “protect the white citizens against” Black liberation.

Evidence that the academy has sustained allegiance to its anti-Black foundation points to the rejection of Black cadets until 1966. A bestselling book and major motion picture, The Lords of Discipline, are allegedly based on the horrors of a Black cadet who “was tortured by a white-supremacist group.”

In 1992, Rick Reilly penned a comprehensive, contested report on the academy. His essay suggests The Citadel would be a comfortable, familiar environment for Dylann Storm Roof. Reilly writes:

“In 1986 five white cadets went into the bunk room of black freshman Kevin Nesmith, the brother of the only black member of the board of visitors. Wearing sheets – and pillowcases over their heads – and holding a burning paper cross, they mumbled Nesmith’s name and uttered racial obscenities. Today all five of his assailants wear the Citadel ring.”

Reilly cites a 1988 planning report, which “found that 56% of black cadets… said they were discriminated against ‘because of their race.’” During the early ’90s, The Citadel convened a study of “race relations” on campus. They “recommended that the playing of Dixie and the waving of Confederate flags at football games be discouraged.” Not prohibited. To demonstrate the union between The Citadel, the Confederate flag and white pride, Reilly offered this anecdote:

“At a Friday lunch last year a senior announced the Senior of the Week award. It went to the cadet who had climbed 700 feet up the Channel 2 tower in Charleston to hang the Confederate flag. Cheers rocked the mess hall…”

It’s effortless to envision Roof in the raucous crowd.

Incidentally, it’s widely acknowledged that the military college of Francis Underwood, Kevin Spacey’s character on the Netflix smash, House of Cards, is the television version of The Citadel.

Will Mitt Romney, Sen. Brannon and the white folks who’ve denounced the racist symbolism of the Confederate flag provide an equal rebuke of The Citadel?

Or South Carolina’s J. Marion Sims?

Former president of the American Medical Association and “father of modern gynecology,” Sims and Roof are simpatico in their appraisal of Black life. Harriet A. Washington’s seminal publication, Medical Apartheid, records how his “vigorous defense of the slavery system had been liberally seasoned with ‘n-gger.’” Washington reveals Sims’ “penchant for taking shoemakers’ tools to Black infants’ skulls.” Roof’s forefather “bought Black women slaves and addicted them to morphine in order to perform dozens of exquisitely painful, distressingly intimate ######l surgeries.”

The S.C. State Capitol deemed Sims worthy of a memorial.

But white supremacy is not singularly Roof or South Carolina. Sims has monuments in Alabama and Central Park in New York because white domination and contempt for Black life are dominant global concepts. France Winddance Twine submits that we are inundated with sanctified markers of racial terror and white power. Many of these symbols are unabashedly adored because of their connection to anti-Blackness and white rule.

Earlier this year, President Barack Obama, global dignitaries and a hoard of good white folks celebrated the 50-year anniversary of the sadistic beating of Black demonstrators in Alabama. Many are aware that “Bloody Sunday” occurred on Selma’s Edmund Pettus Bridge. Apparently, a significant number of Selma natives are unaware that this “hallowed” structure is named after “the head of the most notorious white terrorist group in Alabama probably up until the civil rights movement.” University of Alabama historian John Giggie confirms that this bridge – constructed in 1940 – is one of countless edifices, flags and icons unabashedly dedicated to white power. Whites in Selma calculated to broadcast a naked, flagrant signal: “They wanted to stamp that [bridge] with this vision of the South as very much as… a world dedicated to white supremacy.”

Jack Townes is a Selma native, 21, and Black. After discovering the namesake of the bridge, Townes and a group of activists labored to rename the structure.

Pardon the redundancy.

They failed. Edmund Pettus Bridge remains because the manifesto attributed to Roof states correctly that, “Blacks are subconsciously viewed by white people [as] lower beings.” Which necessitates a world dedicated to white supremacy. It’s insulting to reduce a concept that has ruled and contaminated this planet for centuries to a 21-year-old white boy and a glorified stitch of cloth.

North Carolina NAACP President the Rev. Dr. William Barber denounced the Confederate flag as vulgar, but added that, “To suggest… taking a symbol down is sufficient to honor nine deaths… is to diminish those lives.” The Rev. Barber recognizes 2015 anti-Black policies and practices that are far more hazardous than Civil War memorabilia. Discarding the Confederate flag leaves contemporary mechanisms of racism intact.

Flags don’t produce racism. White thoughts, speech and actions nourish and maintain white power. The removal of apartheid statues and “whites only” signs demonstrates that white people can efficiently preserve the systemic exploitation of Black people without blatant markers. It’s unlikely a South Carolina void of Confederate flags would have preserved and valued the lives of shooting victim Walter Scott or the Emanuel 9.

Dylann Roof is not a Confederate killer. He and Chris Kyle are American snipers, the most recent generation of white killers. At minimum, this tragedy should permanently clarify our grasp of white pathology and heighten our suspicion of all white folks. Even, those like Kyle, who insist that, “Americans [respect] houses of worship as sacred and therefore [are] reluctant to attack there.”

Gus T. Renegade is the host of The C.O.W.S. Talk Radio – a platform designed to dissect and counter racism. He has interviewed and researched authors, filmmakers and scholars from around the globe.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/06/24/deliberate-focus-confederate-flags-derailing-real-conversation-white-supremacy/

- Et tu, Bostion and New York, et tu, wherefor your TPS reports?

Does everyone think this goes too far? Anyone not?

nope. If I had my way, Strom Thrumond would not be memorialized at all in my state. He is an embarrassment. Prior to recent events (i.e. this thread), I was not aware of Tillman. I'd like to see any memorial to him removed from the State house. The flag is an obvious first start - it took 40 years to get it off of the top of the State House, it took another 15 years for momentum to get it off of the grounds. In time, these less obvious memorials to white-supremicists will follow suit.

I am 100% comfortable with changing places named after people, removing statues and memorials, and all of that. As time passes, our understandings of history change as well. Re-writing history? Maybe, but it's really more like re-writing our understanding of history. Society is dynamic, our morality is dynamic...why shouldn't our understanding of who/what should be revered be dynamic as well?

 

[roadkill1292]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

Wait, if this means getting rid of Texas completely, I'm in.

Well, they can't have bigbottom but maybe we could make him an ambassador or something so he could still live there if he wants.

 

[Jayrod]

I feel like a lot of the disconnect on this issue is coming from exactly what is being remembered/honored/celebrated. You hear that as the explanation for why the South continues to display the flag, but what is the reason?

Is it the soldiers who fought for the Confederacy? Because they were at best misguided defenders of slavery and at worst treasonous criminals. Neither case or anything in between is worthy of honor or favorable remembrance. They should be remembered with shame, not pride.

Is it the culture? If so, what culture does the flag represent, but slave owner culture? White people, separate from black people, living in luxury and comfort on the backs of slave labor. Again, this is a reason for shame and not pride.

I don't get what possible thing the rebel flag represents that is a positive thing worth celebrating. Southerns may not see these things this way, but the truth hurts sometimes and the truth is that the rebel flag represents a violent rebellion against our country brought on by white people who wanted to maintain the right to treat black people like livestock instead of human beings.

 

[bigbottom]

Apple removes All Civil War Games From App Store Because of the Confederate Flag

So now we can't engage in historical battle simulations because of a flag? The left's memory hole becomes ever deeper and deeper.

What I love about this is how last week Apple's thoughts and marketing were likely, "historical depiction, relive history", and this week it's "Not us!"

I guess Battle Cry is still available, no flag of evil on its cover, I guess that's the difference.

I guess I just will never understand. I have no love for the Confederate battle flag just like I have no love for the Blood Banner of the Third Reich or the Hammer and Sickle of the Soviet Union. But they existed. Completely wiping their images from the public sphere doesn't change that fact and the argument can be made that it actually makes us more susceptible to future tyranny. Those who can't, or won't, learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Yeah, I don't get the Apple decision.

 

[Slapdash]

A well written article about the topic of this thread, with a bit of a history lesson along with it. It's a good, short read.

I think this is the first time I've read this:

In 1861, a Walterboro, S.C. native and ardent secessionist named William Porcher Miles designed a flag which he hoped would be adopted by the Confederacy. It wasn’t. It did, however, become a Confederate battle flag. This banner – often mistakenly referred to as the “Stars and Bars” – is officially referred to as the “Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia,” and it is the flag at the heart of the 2015 controversy.

I suppose that's one reason it happened in 1961 specifically (aside from the civil rights issues of the time), it was the 100th anniversary of the flag being created and of the war itself.

I see at least 5-6 variations they had to choose from. One thing that occurs to me though is that the actual confederate national flag would not have been appropriate or was not considered such in 1961 because that would have been actual defiance of the US government, the battle flag was likely seen as a way to express resistance without actually rising to the level of treason. It's otherwise hard to understand why the battle flag has been so popular over the (real) Stars & Bars over time.

Sure, there is an element of defiance. There is also a big element of people that actually want to honor those who fought and died to (in their minds) protect their state. The battle flag is most appropriate for that because it is the banner they generally fought under; whether under the armies of NoVa or Tennessee. The Stars and Bars was too similar to the US flag and the 2nd CSA flag looked like it.

 

[matttyl]

The National Park Service pulls Confederate flag items from gift shops

 

[Slapdash]

One of my favorite thing about these types of arguments is how people forget certain facts. The South was bad because they wanted slavery. Forget that slavery was cool for everyone not much before that. Forget that the north actually liked the South having slavery because it helped their bottom line in textiles.

It's so easy to think the South were these terrible human beings who did such horrible things.

By modern standards, pretty much everybody was terrible back then. It wouldn't surprise me if, 150 years from now, folks looked back on us similarly.

I'm not arguing for judging everyone by today's climate. Thomas Jefferson, for example, deserves to be celebrated despite the fact that he owned slaves. And even despite the fact that YF23 hates him with the heat of a thousand suns. No issues there. But let's not celebrate the leaders who fought against this nation and who planted their flag on the side of human bondage when push came to shove. That's not really asking too much or setting an unreasonably high bar.

I agree. I'm not defending the flag fliers at all. My issue is when people look at it as a good vs. evil fight. Or in a way where they use today's standards as the measuring stick, like how everyone hates Christopher Columbus now because of who he was then. My point to what I wrote was simply that I find it funny that people love to say that the South was evil because they were slave owners. To me, that's just funny to hear.

I think people are saying the south was evil because they fought for slavery well after the point that many other people had figured out it was really, really bad. It's the resistance to an obvious change for the better that puts people in the wrong. It's the reason many people condemn someone who beats on their kid now while we give our parents' generation a pass for doing the same thing. Or how someone who opposes gay marriage five years from now will be condemned much more strongly than someone who opposed it a decade ago. Or how we're much more troubled by a messy, unkempt bush now then men were in the 70s.

Again, I didn't say the South wasn't bad for fighting for slaves. I'm not sure who would ever say something like that, really. What I'm saying is that it's like two people smoking crack, then one person quits and turns to the other person and tells them they need to get off the pipe because drugs are bad for them. People keep making the North out to be this noble place that it really wasn't. It's great that we all eventually came around to abolishing slavery, but the fact remains that we all were guilty of it at some point.

Reminds me of this interesting piece I was reading last night:

The whole narrative of white supremacy was created during the era of slavery. It was a necessary theory to make white Christian people feel comfortable with their ownership of other human beings. And we created a narrative of racial difference in this country to sustain slavery, and even people who didn’t own slaves bought into that narrative, including people in the North. It was New York’s governor — in the 1860s — that was talking about the inferiority of the black person even as he was opposed to slavery. So this narrative of racial difference has done really destructive things in our society. Lots of countries had slaves, but they were mostly societies with slaves. We became something different, we became a slave society. We created a narrative of racial difference to maintain slavery. And our 13th amendment never dealt with that narrative. It didn’t talk about white supremacy. The Emancipation Proclamation doesn’t discuss the ideology of white supremacy or the narrative of racial difference, so I don’t believe slavery ended in 1865, I believe it just evolved. It turned into decades of racial hierarchy that was violently enforced — from the end of reconstruction until WWII — through acts of racial terror. And in the north, that was tolerated.

You don’t have to have owned a slave to be complicit in the institution of slavery, to have benefitted and have cheaper food to buy, cheaper materials, cheaper services, because the providers of the foods and services were using free slave labor. We were all complicit in the institution of slavery, and the same is true in the era of racial terror and lynching. The North and the Congress basically gave up on equality for African Americans, and that set us on a course that we have not yet recovered from. We’ve been really focused on redefining that era — at the beginning of the 20th century and the end of the 19th century — as an era shaped by terrorism1. Lynchings were not acts directed at particular individuals, they were acts directed at the entire African American community. And in that respect it was racial terror. A white person being hanged was not the same as an African American being lynched. The violence against African Americans was a message to the entire black community. I think we’ve got to deal with that a lot more honestly.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/06/24/bryan-stevenson-on-charleston-and-our-real-problem-with-race

 

[bigbottom]

While we are on it. Why not outlaw the Texas flag as well. Wasn't that the symbol of rebellion too? An Texas people just annoy me with the who "I'm from Texas" thing. Like anyone gives a ####. Boston, NYC, and Texas seem to think people give one crap about Boston, NYC, and Texas.

Wait, if this means getting rid of Texas completely, I'm in.

Well, they can't have bigbottom but maybe we could make him an ambassador or something so he could still live there if he wants.

DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY!!!

 

[tdoss]

The UCI thing was pretty short-lived. It was overturned by the student executive committee almost immediately. It didn't represent a majority of students, or even a significant minority. A few bozos in the social ecology department that got on the legislative council. Not the proudest moment for my alma mater, but the conservative press, led by Fox News, went bat#### crazy and really made a mountain out of a molehill.

Sure...I was only citing it as an example for how the American flag is being deemed more and moreso as some antagonistic, offensive banner.

Does it not make you scratch your head even for a moment that public schools have banned it?

I'm just saying it's a very strange, weird time we live in...

Everyone is seemingly offended ALL the time...about everything.

I really think people need to unplug for a few days a week...just to disconnect from all of the outrage and constant disturbing imagery and discussions that make people fly off the hinges over something that otherwise common sense would've reigned supreme over.

It just seems like there's no reasoned discussion about things anymore...just flying off the handle, pissed off...0-100mph hair triggers over everything.

People can't possibly stay in this constant state of agitation without something breaking.

The end product will be the same as it always is: reason will win out, the lines will be drawn where they should be drawn. The American flag will continue to fly pretty much everywhere.

Except a growing number of public schools in CA, that is...

Knee-jerk reactionism is currently winning out over reason.

 

[BroadwayG]

Did anyone mention blowing up mount rushmore for the slave owners on there?

 

[TobiasFunke]

The UCI thing was pretty short-lived. It was overturned by the student executive committee almost immediately. It didn't represent a majority of students, or even a significant minority. A few bozos in the social ecology department that got on the legislative council. Not the proudest moment for my alma mater, but the conservative press, led by Fox News, went bat#### crazy and really made a mountain out of a molehill.

Sure...I was only citing it as an example for how the American flag is being deemed more and moreso as some antagonistic, offensive banner.

Does it not make you scratch your head even for a moment that public schools have banned it?

I'm just saying it's a very strange, weird time we live in...

Everyone is seemingly offended ALL the time...about everything.

I really think people need to unplug for a few days a week...just to disconnect from all of the outrage and constant disturbing imagery and discussions that make people fly off the hinges over something that otherwise common sense would've reigned supreme over.

It just seems like there's no reasoned discussion about things anymore...just flying off the handle, pissed off...0-100mph hair triggers over everything.

People can't possibly stay in this constant state of agitation without something breaking.

The end product will be the same as it always is: reason will win out, the lines will be drawn where they should be drawn. The American flag will continue to fly pretty much everywhere.

Except a growing number of public schools in CA, that is...

Knee-jerk reactionism is currently winning out over reason.

Well then I guess I must have missed the story. I know about one case, which dealt with American flag t-shirts. What other districts have adopted similar measures? Who has banned flying the flag itself?

 

[tdoss]

The UCI thing was pretty short-lived. It was overturned by the student executive committee almost immediately. It didn't represent a majority of students, or even a significant minority. A few bozos in the social ecology department that got on the legislative council. Not the proudest moment for my alma mater, but the conservative press, led by Fox News, went bat#### crazy and really made a mountain out of a molehill.

Sure...I was only citing it as an example for how the American flag is being deemed more and moreso as some antagonistic, offensive banner.

Does it not make you scratch your head even for a moment that public schools have banned it?

I'm just saying it's a very strange, weird time we live in...

Everyone is seemingly offended ALL the time...about everything.

I really think people need to unplug for a few days a week...just to disconnect from all of the outrage and constant disturbing imagery and discussions that make people fly off the hinges over something that otherwise common sense would've reigned supreme over.

It just seems like there's no reasoned discussion about things anymore...just flying off the handle, pissed off...0-100mph hair triggers over everything.

People can't possibly stay in this constant state of agitation without something breaking.

The end product will be the same as it always is: reason will win out, the lines will be drawn where they should be drawn. The American flag will continue to fly pretty much everywhere.

Except a growing number of public schools in CA, that is...Knee-jerk reactionism is currently winning out over reason.

Well then I guess I must have missed the story. I know about one case, which dealt with American flag t-shirts. What other districts have adopted similar measures? Who has banned flying the flag itself?

So you can somehow brush off an entire district banning it? You know how big these districts are out here? Case in point...there are nearly 500,000 people living in our school district.And I cited two schools my own kids go to as further examples...we're nowhere near that district that made it official.

Hell...Murrieta is the town that stopped the immigration buses in their tracks...but the schools banned the American Flag during month of May.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The UCI thing was pretty short-lived. It was overturned by the student executive committee almost immediately. It didn't represent a majority of students, or even a significant minority. A few bozos in the social ecology department that got on the legislative council. Not the proudest moment for my alma mater, but the conservative press, led by Fox News, went bat#### crazy and really made a mountain out of a molehill.

Sure...I was only citing it as an example for how the American flag is being deemed more and moreso as some antagonistic, offensive banner.

Does it not make you scratch your head even for a moment that public schools have banned it?

I'm just saying it's a very strange, weird time we live in...

Everyone is seemingly offended ALL the time...about everything.

I really think people need to unplug for a few days a week...just to disconnect from all of the outrage and constant disturbing imagery and discussions that make people fly off the hinges over something that otherwise common sense would've reigned supreme over.

It just seems like there's no reasoned discussion about things anymore...just flying off the handle, pissed off...0-100mph hair triggers over everything.

People can't possibly stay in this constant state of agitation without something breaking.

The end product will be the same as it always is: reason will win out, the lines will be drawn where they should be drawn. The American flag will continue to fly pretty much everywhere.

Except a growing number of public schools in CA, that is...Knee-jerk reactionism is currently winning out over reason.

Well then I guess I must have missed the story. I know about one case, which dealt with American flag t-shirts. What other districts have adopted similar measures? Who has banned flying the flag itself?

So you can somehow brush off an entire district banning it? You know how big these districts are out here?And I cited two schools my own kids go to as further examples...we're nowhere near that district that made it official.

Hell...Murrieta is the town that stopped the immigration buses in their tracks...but the schools banned the American Flag during month of May.

I don't brush it off. I'm wondering why you said "growing number" and why you suggested that the American flag cannot "fly" there as I had stated. I absolutely may have missed something, even though I googled it and still didn't find anything close to what you describe.

Generally, however, I've seen enough complaining about isolated instances of PC overreach over the years to not worry about it too much. We've been hearing these melodramatic "this country is going to hell in a handbasket!" overreactions to them for at least 20 years, yet somehow the world keeps on turning. Sure, I suppose I wish every student could wear an American flag t-shirt (I also wish teenagers weren't antagonizing ####bags who wore American flags in an effort to taunt Latinos, but clearly that's a pipe dream). But there are literally thousands of more pressing problems facing our country. Let me know when any U.S. government at any level tells people they can't fly an American flag (or even a Confederate flag) on their property and I'll come running to help with the cause.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I also wish teenagers weren't antagonizing ####bags who wore American flags in an effort to taunt Latinos, but clearly that's a pipe dream.

JTFC!