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Spike

Footballguy
Here's a question that I hope is different than all the other "Reggie Bush to the Texans or do they trade down" sort of threads.

The assumption (yes, it's far from a given) is that the Texans trade down to the Jets pick. What the Texans get is irrelevant, but let's assume it's 1.01 for Abraham, the 1.04 and someother stuff.

If we figure the Jets pick a QB (Leinart, Young or Cutler), where does Reggie Bush go?

I would think whomever the Jets didn't take would go 2nd to the Saints. Would Tennessee go with D'Brick?

Where WOULD Reggie go???

 

Sopranos

Footballguy
One of the 3 QB's will be there at 4 anyway. If they trade to #1 they would pick Bush. They need him more than the Texans :popcorn:

 

Kleck.

Footballguy
If the Jets traded up to 1.01 and take a QB, I think you would see a mad dash of teams offering New Orleans deals to trade up for the #2 and grab Bush. If New Orleans takes a QB, I believe the Bush fall ends at #3 and Norm along with all of Tenn's war room crap their pants from being so excited.

 

Texasmouth

Footballguy
No way Bush isn't the #1 overall pick. Even if the Texans plan to do nothing but trade him, he will be the #1 pick. He is too valuable to other teams for him not to be.

 

Kleck.

Footballguy
One of the 3 QB's will be there at 4 anyway. If they trade to #1 they would pick Bush. They need him more than the Texans :popcorn:
At 1.01 they take Bush, not a QB.
No way Bush isn't the #1 overall pick. Even if the Texans plan to do nothing but trade him, he will be the #1 pick. He is too valuable to other teams for him not to be.
And you guys are probably right, but this is a hypothetical situation that involves NYJ taking a QB. Please keep the focus on that.
 
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Texasmouth

Footballguy
Sorry, if the Jets trade up, they are taking Bush. There is no reason to trade up to grab a QB unless they are just enamored with Lienart or Young.

 

Kleck.

Footballguy
Sorry, if the Jets trade up, they are taking Bush. There is no reason to trade up to grab a QB unless they are just enamored with Lienart or Young.
And I would not disagree with you.Just to add something to this hypothetical situation, there was once a time when many scouts felt Leinart was a sure shot #1 overall. And I do believe his workouts and draft grade reports could be one of the best we have seen in years. This is definitely not a year to be sad in having the #2 overall pick.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
If the Jets traded up to 1.01 and take a QB, I think you would see a mad dash of teams offering New Orleans deals to trade up for the #2 and grab Bush. If New Orleans takes a QB, I believe the Bush fall ends at #3 and Norm along with all of Tenn's war room crap their pants from being so excited.
Things can always change between now and the draft. If Bush measures light or doesn't run well, things could be different. But assuming he does all that's expected of him, Kleck is spot on...if the 1st pick wasn't Bush, any number of teams would be lining up to make sure he was the 2nd or 3rd pick at worst.
 

Sinrman

Footballguy
I think the top 3 picks are pretty much set. It's a matter of WHO is there to pick them. Bush #1, Leinart #2 (though I still have a feeling it might be Young), and Young #3. If the Jets are targeting a QB, they will try and trade either with NO or TEN, not HOU. It would save them a bit in trade to do so. If they want Bush, however, then yes, they'll have to go with HOU.

 

-OZ-

Footballguy
The assumption (yes, it's far from a given) is that the Texans trade down to the Jets pick. What the Texans get is irrelevant, but let's assume it's 1.01 for Abraham, the 1.04 and someother stuff.

If we figure the Jets pick a QB (Leinart, Young or Cutler), where does Reggie Bush go?
I actually asked this in a different thread, and was basically told it couldn't happen. I actually like the deal, but doubt it happens. The fallout would be interesting if Bush wasn't taken #1.But, even if the Jets do move up, I think they take Bush. If they don't, New Orleans should be shopping the #2. They could move down a few picks, but again, they need a QB more than a RB. Hypothetically, if the Jets traded up, snagged Leinart, and the Saints took Young, Tennessee would have to take Bush.

 

cstu

Footballguy
So are is the order Bush, Leinart, Young, and D'Brick set in stone? That seems to be the consensus.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
So are is the order Bush, Leinart, Young, and D'Brick set in stone? That seems to be the consensus.
:no: NOTHING is set in stone until the Combine and Pro Days. ESPECIALLY Vince Young. Young has a lot of questions to answer and plenty of teams won't likely view him as a can't miss franchise QB. The other three are all, at least at this juncture, expected to carry franchise grades on most boards, making it all the more likely they'll be drafted at the top by either the teams currently slotted there or by another team willing to move up.

Vince Young, among those four you mentioned, is BY FAR the most likely to fall out of that top quartet.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
It would take a tremendously disappointing Pro Day for Leinart to fall. His body or work, mechanics and level of competition make him one of the safest "franchise QB" bets in a long, long time.
 

Texasmouth

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
I dont see the reasoning behind this. There have been just as many RB that looked like studs and flopped....Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, etc as QB. There is no such thing as a lock. Lienart and Young will both be successful. If they are drafted where they are projected, it is into a perfect situation for them both. If the Jets draft a QB, they will have to compete with Pennington.

I think the Jets would be smart to trade up and draft Bush. I also think Pennington will recover and be back to form, maybe even as early as this season. Drafting a top tier LT is smart but they could grab one in free agency. Bush would be a need. Unlike Houston, the Jets only have 102 year old Curtis Martin (RB age is like dog years). Drafting Bush would be smart and not to mention it would be the most popular pick the Jets have ever made in their history and could bring a little excitement to take away from the smell of the Jersey air. :loco:

 
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Bri

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
It would take a tremendously disappointing Pro Day for Leinart to fall. His body or work, mechanics and level of competition make him one of the safest "franchise QB" bets in a long, long time.
so was Couch(da dum dum)
 

slimflop

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
I dont see the reasoning behind this. There have been just as many RB that looked like studs and flopped....Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, etc as QB. There is no such thing as a lock. Lienart and Young will both be successful. If they are drafted where they are projected, it is into a perfect situation for them both. Whoever the Jets draft, they will have to compete with Pennington.

I think the Jets would be smart to trade up and draft Bush. I also think Pennington will recover and be back to form, maybe even as early as this season. Drafting a top tier LT is smart but they could grab one in free agency. Bush would be a need. Unlike Houston, the Jets only have 102 year old Curtis Martin (RB age is like dog years). Drafting Bush would be smart and not to mention it would be the most popular pick the Jets have ever made in their history and could bring a little excitement to take away from the smell of the Jersey air. :loco:
They are locks to be drafted in the top 4
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
It would take a tremendously disappointing Pro Day for Leinart to fall. His body or work, mechanics and level of competition make him one of the safest "franchise QB" bets in a long, long time.
so was Couch(da dum dum)
:no: Couch didn't play in an NFL style offense, and had to learn 3-, 5- and 7-step drop mechanics coming out of college. He was tremendously prolific but was given "credit' for not having an elite supporting cast. Couch is far more comparable to guys like Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller and Jay Cutler in terms of comparables [i.e., guys who didn't have "supporting casts" and/or pro-style systems] than Leinart.

 

Bri

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
I dont see the reasoning behind this. There have been just as many RB that looked like studs and flopped....Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, etc as QB. There is no such thing as a lock. Lienart and Young will both be successful. If they are drafted where they are projected, it is into a perfect situation for them both. If the Jets draft a QB, they will have to compete with Pennington.

I think the Jets would be smart to trade up and draft Bush. I also think Pennington will recover and be back to form, maybe even as early as this season. Drafting a top tier LT is smart but they could grab one in free agency. Bush would be a need. Unlike Houston, the Jets only have 102 year old Curtis Martin (RB age is like dog years). Drafting Bush would be smart and not to mention it would be the most popular pick the Jets have ever made in their history and could bring a little excitement to take away from the smell of the Jersey air. :loco:
Is Pennington considerred a bust if he doesn't return?
 

Texasmouth

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
I dont see the reasoning behind this. There have been just as many RB that looked like studs and flopped....Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, etc as QB. There is no such thing as a lock. Lienart and Young will both be successful. If they are drafted where they are projected, it is into a perfect situation for them both. Whoever the Jets draft, they will have to compete with Pennington.

I think the Jets would be smart to trade up and draft Bush. I also think Pennington will recover and be back to form, maybe even as early as this season. Drafting a top tier LT is smart but they could grab one in free agency. Bush would be a need. Unlike Houston, the Jets only have 102 year old Curtis Martin (RB age is like dog years). Drafting Bush would be smart and not to mention it would be the most popular pick the Jets have ever made in their history and could bring a little excitement to take away from the smell of the Jersey air. :loco:
They are locks to be drafted in the top 4
Thought you meant they are locks to be good in the NFL.No way Young drops out of the top four. Who would bump him out of the top four? Cutler? Maybe, but I dont see Tenn passing on a Young.

 

slimflop

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
I dont see the reasoning behind this. There have been just as many RB that looked like studs and flopped....Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, etc as QB. There is no such thing as a lock. Lienart and Young will both be successful. If they are drafted where they are projected, it is into a perfect situation for them both. Whoever the Jets draft, they will have to compete with Pennington.

I think the Jets would be smart to trade up and draft Bush. I also think Pennington will recover and be back to form, maybe even as early as this season. Drafting a top tier LT is smart but they could grab one in free agency. Bush would be a need. Unlike Houston, the Jets only have 102 year old Curtis Martin (RB age is like dog years). Drafting Bush would be smart and not to mention it would be the most popular pick the Jets have ever made in their history and could bring a little excitement to take away from the smell of the Jersey air. :loco:
They are locks to be drafted in the top 4
Thought you meant they are locks to be good in the NFL.No way Young drops out of the top four. Who would bump him out of the top four? Cutler? Maybe, but I dont see Tenn passing on a Young.
Mario Williams, AJ Hawk could be anybody
 

cstu

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
It would take a tremendously disappointing Pro Day for Leinart to fall. His body or work, mechanics and level of competition make him one of the safest "franchise QB" bets in a long, long time.
so was Couch(da dum dum)
:no: Couch didn't play in an NFL style offense, and had to learn 3-, 5- and 7-step drop mechanics coming out of college. He was tremendously prolific but was given "credit' for not having an elite supporting cast. Couch is far more comparable to guys like Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller and Jay Cutler in terms of comparables [i.e., guys who didn't have "supporting casts" and/or pro-style systems] than Leinart.
I can't believe I'm going to defend Couch, but he wasn't as bad as people think he was. Expectations were extremely high since he was the #1 overall pick but he also had to start as a rookie on a horrible team. He gets shafted even though he had a lot of arm problems and got beat out by a pretty decent QB in Kelly Holcomb.
 

Texasmouth

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
I dont see the reasoning behind this. There have been just as many RB that looked like studs and flopped....Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, etc as QB. There is no such thing as a lock. Lienart and Young will both be successful. If they are drafted where they are projected, it is into a perfect situation for them both. Whoever the Jets draft, they will have to compete with Pennington.

I think the Jets would be smart to trade up and draft Bush. I also think Pennington will recover and be back to form, maybe even as early as this season. Drafting a top tier LT is smart but they could grab one in free agency. Bush would be a need. Unlike Houston, the Jets only have 102 year old Curtis Martin (RB age is like dog years). Drafting Bush would be smart and not to mention it would be the most popular pick the Jets have ever made in their history and could bring a little excitement to take away from the smell of the Jersey air. :loco:
They are locks to be drafted in the top 4
Thought you meant they are locks to be good in the NFL.No way Young drops out of the top four. Who would bump him out of the top four? Cutler? Maybe, but I dont see Tenn passing on a Young.
Mario Williams, AJ Hawk could be anybody
Only if the Titans or Saints trade down. The Titans and Saints will be taking QB. I would put some serious money on that.
 

Texasmouth

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
It would take a tremendously disappointing Pro Day for Leinart to fall. His body or work, mechanics and level of competition make him one of the safest "franchise QB" bets in a long, long time.
so was Couch(da dum dum)
:no: Couch didn't play in an NFL style offense, and had to learn 3-, 5- and 7-step drop mechanics coming out of college. He was tremendously prolific but was given "credit' for not having an elite supporting cast. Couch is far more comparable to guys like Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller and Jay Cutler in terms of comparables [i.e., guys who didn't have "supporting casts" and/or pro-style systems] than Leinart.
I can't believe I'm going to defend Couch, but he wasn't as bad as people think he was. Expectations were extremely high since he was the #1 overall pick but he also had to start as a rookie on a horrible team. He gets shafted even though he had a lot of arm problems and got beat out by a pretty decent QB in Kelly Holcomb.
Dont worry about defendin Couch. I think he will resurface this season. I think his failures weren't just his fault. Butch Davis sucks. Couch never had a decent running game. His receivers were very over rated. His offensive line was one of the worst in the game and the offensive system did not cater to him.
 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
It would take a tremendously disappointing Pro Day for Leinart to fall. His body or work, mechanics and level of competition make him one of the safest "franchise QB" bets in a long, long time.
so was Couch(da dum dum)
:no: Couch didn't play in an NFL style offense, and had to learn 3-, 5- and 7-step drop mechanics coming out of college. He was tremendously prolific but was given "credit' for not having an elite supporting cast. Couch is far more comparable to guys like Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller and Jay Cutler in terms of comparables [i.e., guys who didn't have "supporting casts" and/or pro-style systems] than Leinart.
I can't believe I'm going to defend Couch, but he wasn't as bad as people think he was. Expectations were extremely high since he was the #1 overall pick but he also had to start as a rookie on a horrible team. He gets shafted even though he had a lot of arm problems and got beat out by a pretty decent QB in Kelly Holcomb.
I'm not disparaging Couch as much as you think. But Bri tried to paint Tim Couch as the same kind of prospect coming out of school as Leinart and that simply isn't the case, regardless of how Couch's career turned out. Leinart plays in an NFL ready offense, performed consistently at the highest levels imaginable, did it for multiple seasons, and has flawless pro-style mechanics. Leinart may or may not be an NFL success, but from a risk evaluation standpoint, he's a far different bet than Couch was.
 

cstu

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
I dont see the reasoning behind this. There have been just as many RB that looked like studs and flopped....Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, etc as QB. There is no such thing as a lock. Lienart and Young will both be successful. If they are drafted where they are projected, it is into a perfect situation for them both. Whoever the Jets draft, they will have to compete with Pennington.

I think the Jets would be smart to trade up and draft Bush. I also think Pennington will recover and be back to form, maybe even as early as this season. Drafting a top tier LT is smart but they could grab one in free agency. Bush would be a need. Unlike Houston, the Jets only have 102 year old Curtis Martin (RB age is like dog years). Drafting Bush would be smart and not to mention it would be the most popular pick the Jets have ever made in their history and could bring a little excitement to take away from the smell of the Jersey air. :loco:
They are locks to be drafted in the top 4
Thought you meant they are locks to be good in the NFL.No way Young drops out of the top four. Who would bump him out of the top four? Cutler? Maybe, but I dont see Tenn passing on a Young.
Mario Williams, AJ Hawk could be anybody
Somehow I don't see this unless the one of top 4 teams drop out of the top 4. The Saints and Titans both need QB's and would be killed for passing on a Leinart or Young.
 

Texasmouth

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
It would take a tremendously disappointing Pro Day for Leinart to fall. His body or work, mechanics and level of competition make him one of the safest "franchise QB" bets in a long, long time.
so was Couch(da dum dum)
:no: Couch didn't play in an NFL style offense, and had to learn 3-, 5- and 7-step drop mechanics coming out of college. He was tremendously prolific but was given "credit' for not having an elite supporting cast. Couch is far more comparable to guys like Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller and Jay Cutler in terms of comparables [i.e., guys who didn't have "supporting casts" and/or pro-style systems] than Leinart.
I can't believe I'm going to defend Couch, but he wasn't as bad as people think he was. Expectations were extremely high since he was the #1 overall pick but he also had to start as a rookie on a horrible team. He gets shafted even though he had a lot of arm problems and got beat out by a pretty decent QB in Kelly Holcomb.
I'm not disparaging Couch as much as you think. But Bri tried to paint Tim Couch as the same kind of prospect coming out of school as Leinart and that simply isn't the case, regardless of how Couch's career turned out. Leinart plays in an NFL ready offense, performed consistently at the highest levels imaginable, did it for multiple seasons, and has flawless pro-style mechanics. Leinart may or may not be an NFL success, but from a risk evaluation standpoint, he's a far different bet than Couch was.
I have to disagree with you there. Couch was supposed to be a guaranteed franchise guy. What about Ryan Leaf. Don't even say that you or anyone else "knew" he wasn't going to succeed. I thought he was far better than Manning and so did a lot of scouts. Did you see what a crybaby Lienart was after the Bowl game? Who is to say he won't be trying to fit camera men in the locker room? How do we know how he will deal with playing for the Saints? I don't think he is any better or worse of a prospect that Couch. It is easy to say now after Couch and Leaf have all ready failed.

 

Bri

Footballguy
Bush and D'Brick are locks Leinart or Young could fall.
It would take a tremendously disappointing Pro Day for Leinart to fall. His body or work, mechanics and level of competition make him one of the safest "franchise QB" bets in a long, long time.
so was Couch(da dum dum)
:no: Couch didn't play in an NFL style offense, and had to learn 3-, 5- and 7-step drop mechanics coming out of college. He was tremendously prolific but was given "credit' for not having an elite supporting cast. Couch is far more comparable to guys like Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller and Jay Cutler in terms of comparables [i.e., guys who didn't have "supporting casts" and/or pro-style systems] than Leinart.
I can't believe I'm going to defend Couch, but he wasn't as bad as people think he was. Expectations were extremely high since he was the #1 overall pick but he also had to start as a rookie on a horrible team. He gets shafted even though he had a lot of arm problems and got beat out by a pretty decent QB in Kelly Holcomb.
I'm not disparaging Couch as much as you think. But Bri tried to paint Tim Couch as the same kind of prospect coming out of school as Leinart and that simply isn't the case, regardless of how Couch's career turned out. Leinart plays in an NFL ready offense, performed consistently at the highest levels imaginable, did it for multiple seasons, and has flawless pro-style mechanics. Leinart may or may not be an NFL success, but from a risk evaluation standpoint, he's a far different bet than Couch was.
Considerred the best QB in one of the more QB heavy drafts in the last 10-20 years. 1 (1) CLE Tim Couch Kentucky

2 (2) PHI Donovan McNabb Syracuse

3 (3) CIN Akili Smith Oregon

4 (4) IND Edgerrin James Miami (FL)

5 (5) NOR Ricky Williams Texas

6 (6) STL Torry Holt North Carolina State

7 (7) WAS Champ Bailey Georgia

8 (8) ARI David Boston Ohio State

9 (9) DET Chris Claiborne USC

10 (10) BAL Chris McAlister Arizona

11 (11) MIN Daunte Culpepper Central Florida

NFL Draft: Tim Couch, Quarterback

Kentucky/ 6:4.5-227/ Hyden, Kentucky

Confident leader with excellent size & arm strength...Has the arm power on his deep tosses...Powerful stepping up in the pocket...Drills the short outs & has a quick release to put tremendous zip behind his intermediate throws...Very effective lofting the ball & dropping it over the head of defenders on deep routes...Recently timed at 5.15 in the 40-yard dash...Despite only 24 games as a starter, he shattered the school’s career passing records, completing 795 of 1184 attempts for 8835 yards & 74 touchdowns... His 8160 yards in total offense broke the old Kentucky all-time record of 5456 yards by Bill Ransdell (1983-86).

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/stat/apr99/qb-couch.asp

Plus IIRC his college offense was a version of the run N shoot, a pro offense

 

Bri

Footballguy
forgive me Jason if I jumped on something ya said here. I hate the "can't miss" talk this time of year in regards to rookies. I think their should be a way to evaluate previous misses and determine whom will be misses in present day. There isn't and so it's frustrating

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Bri,

I think we may be debating two different things here. What I'm saying is NOT whether Leinart is any more of a sure thing in the NFL than Young or Couch or whoever. What I AM saying is that based on Leinart's offense, quality of play, longevity of performance and mechanics [not to mention the fact he is following Carson Palmer, an excellent pro QB], his PERCEPTION by the NFL pundits will be that he's as close to can't miss as it gets.

Leinart entered the 2005 college season as the likely 1st overall pick, and he did nothing to lose such a lofty grade. Vince Young put himself on the map for a top pick with a great season and unbelievable bowl game, but there are a lot of ways Vince Young could fall out of top 4 contention when he has to work out and be put through the paces. That's simply not the case for Leinart.

 

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