What I think I learnt - Steelers/Titans (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Fusion]

The Steelers are going to have a very tough time running the ball against anyone. Big Ben and his receivers look to smash their ADP.

 

[Sheriff66]

Anymore thoughts on Mendenhall, folks?How would you rank against this year's rookie RB crop?

I'm not sure where I would rank him against this year's rookies, but he looked HORRIBLE. Granted, the Titans are not an easy matchup even without Haynesworth, but he didn't look great in the preseason, or last year.IIRC, his first handoff last night he ran straight into Ben. It looked like somebody was playing Madden with the kid - and not in a good way. He took the ball, did a spin (whether it appeared necessary or not), then proceeded to run smack into whoever or whatever was in front of him. I don't know if he magically expected the hole to just open up in front of him or he thought he could run through both his offensive line and the Titans' defensive line, but he missed a couple small holes.Mendenhall -

That play could've been Ben's fault as well. But the line play was horrible and he finishes his runs to get whatever yardage he can. He gained yards after contact....showing good power. No he didn't break anything....but neither did any other steelers RB.

Ben looked at Mendenhall on the play and tapped his own chest as if to say it was his fault, not RM.

 

[jwb]

Very nice list. Agree on all points except Lendale White. I was not impressed with his 'leaner frame'.

I was disappointed in his production, having started him as a RB3, but I could not help but think he looked (and ran) like a solid NFL RB. I think he has a good year.Agree with the OP on Mendy... bleh.

 

[Copeman]

I've learned that one thing will always be the same regarding FF. And that is the fact that every year there will be boneheads that will cut/vilify some good offensive players from their roster based on the very first game of the season. A game in which 2 of the best defenses in the entire league played eachother.

Buncha idiots.....

 

[Godsbrother]

Steelers

1) Willie Parker looks slow.

2) He'll start because Mendenhall looks like he doesn't belong in the NFL

3) Moore could be the Steeler's best back

If you are basing this on last night's performance you are jumping the gun.First off, Parker hasn't played except for a few carries in the first preseason game and was also coming off an injury. He was bound to be a little rusty in this first game. Secondly the Titans have a very good defense. Other than Baltimore and perhaps San Diego they have what appears to be a pretty nice schedule. I would wait before I stuck a fork in Parker or Mendenhall.

Thirdly Mewelde Moore's YPC average last night was only 0.1 yards better than Parker and Mendenhall. His role on the Steelers is different and it will remain that way unless an injury occurs.

Finally it appears the Steelers offensive philosophy has changed quite a bit. The role of the FB has diminished quite a bit and OC Bruce Arians prefers to have Ben air the ball out vs the ground game. They will not abandon the run but this is a vastly different offense compared to what the Steelers were running 2 years ago.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Anymore thoughts on Mendenhall, folks?How would you rank against this year's rookie RB crop?

I'm not sure where I would rank him against this year's rookies, but he looked HORRIBLE. Granted, the Titans are not an easy matchup even without Haynesworth, but he didn't look great in the preseason, or last year.IIRC, his first handoff last night he ran straight into Ben. It looked like somebody was playing Madden with the kid - and not in a good way. He took the ball, did a spin (whether it appeared necessary or not), then proceeded to run smack into whoever or whatever was in front of him. I don't know if he magically expected the hole to just open up in front of him or he thought he could run through both his offensive line and the Titans' defensive line, but he missed a couple small holes.Mendenhall -

That play could've been Ben's fault as well. But the line play was horrible and he finishes his runs to get whatever yardage he can. He gained yards after contact....showing good power. No he didn't break anything....but neither did any other steelers RB.

Ben looked at Mendenhall on the play and tapped his own chest as if to say it was his fault, not RM.

All I can say for M'hall is that despite having NO blocking or lanes and being hit in the backfield, he pushed forward very well.

 

[Sheriff66]

Anymore thoughts on Mendenhall, folks?

How would you rank against this year's rookie RB crop?

I'm not sure where I would rank him against this year's rookies, but he looked HORRIBLE. Granted, the Titans are not an easy matchup even without Haynesworth, but he didn't look great in the preseason, or last year.

IIRC, his first handoff last night he ran straight into Ben. It looked like somebody was playing Madden with the kid - and not in a good way. He took the ball, did a spin (whether it appeared necessary or not), then proceeded to run smack into whoever or whatever was in front of him. I don't know if he magically expected the hole to just open up in front of him or he thought he could run through both his offensive line and the Titans' defensive line, but he missed a couple small holes.

Mendenhall -

That play could've been Ben's fault as well. But the line play was horrible and he finishes his runs to get whatever yardage he can. He gained yards after contact....showing good power. No he didn't break anything....but neither did any other steelers RB.

Ben looked at Mendenhall on the play and tapped his own chest as if to say it was his fault, not RM.

All I can say for M'hall is that despite having NO blocking or lanes and being hit in the backfield, he pushed forward very well.

I agree, at least he got a few yards after some contact.

 

[Godsbrother]

I agree, at least he got a few yards after some contact.

Unfortunately with this o-line he may need to get used to being hit in the backfield.

 

[Moniker]

Anymore thoughts on Mendenhall, folks?How would you rank against this year's rookie RB crop?

I'm not sure where I would rank him against this year's rookies, but he looked HORRIBLE. Granted, the Titans are not an easy matchup even without Haynesworth, but he didn't look great in the preseason, or last year.IIRC, his first handoff last night he ran straight into Ben. It looked like somebody was playing Madden with the kid - and not in a good way. He took the ball, did a spin (whether it appeared necessary or not), then proceeded to run smack into whoever or whatever was in front of him. I don't know if he magically expected the hole to just open up in front of him or he thought he could run through both his offensive line and the Titans' defensive line, but he missed a couple small holes.Mendenhall -

Looked to me like Ben went the wrong way.

Same here. Ben was trying to hand the ball off right where the guard pulled from.EDIT to add - Mendenhall looked absolutely terrible, though.

 

[thekidd2009]

I wouldn't right off Willie just yet...it wasn't his fault there was absolutely no where to run. That offensive line looked absolutely terrible, but they were going up against a very stout defense. I think alot of backs get a ton of praise but if the oline doesn't open up holes, your pretty much dead to rights IMO.

 

[Coboney]

Steelers

1) Willie Parker looks slow.

2) He'll start because Mendenhall looks like he doesn't belong in the NFL

3) Moore could be the Steeler's best back

If you are basing this on last night's performance you are jumping the gun.First off, Parker hasn't played except for a few carries in the first preseason game and was also coming off an injury. He was bound to be a little rusty in this first game. Secondly the Titans have a very good defense. Other than Baltimore and perhaps San Diego they have what appears to be a pretty nice schedule. I would wait before I stuck a fork in Parker or Mendenhall.

Thirdly Mewelde Moore's YPC average last night was only 0.1 yards better than Parker and Mendenhall. His role on the Steelers is different and it will remain that way unless an injury occurs.

Finally it appears the Steelers offensive philosophy has changed quite a bit. The role of the FB has diminished quite a bit and OC Bruce Arians prefers to have Ben air the ball out vs the ground game. They will not abandon the run but this is a vastly different offense compared to what the Steelers were running 2 years ago.

I was giving my thoughts - I'm not going to act on them but thats what I saw in the game. Parker wasn't getting anywhere even on the few runs he had space, Mendenhall couldn't FIND that space and Moore at least moved around some when in space with the ball. I'm including receptions here.

Call it an eyeball opinion on that front.

Also yes - the Steelers are more of a passing team now. Arians was the WR coach and this was speculated when he was promoted and has come to fruition... partially because of the line and the backs.

 

[thekidd2009]

Ben is the king of the comeback, 18 4th quarter comebacks since 2004, most in the league.

Ben is a very good QB but this stat is somewhat misleading to a certain extent. There are plenty of what if's in a game and I don't usually like playing that game but I think playing with an extremly good defense helps out this comeback kid. For example Ben's 4th quarter come back in last nights game was one that was only a 3 point deficit. And not only was it only 3 points the score was only 10-7. Also, his special teams did block a field goal as well to add to the heroics of Ben being called Mr. comeback. I do have to admit though that there are limited QB's in the league that you would want leading your team in late game situations than Ben, but lets not give him all the love for these comebacks.

I agree with you 100% here. If the steelers didn't have such a great D, there is no way he has close to that many comebacks. He turned the ball over 2x that game and imo the titans were simply outplaying the steelers all game long. The only reason he had a chance for a comeback was bc of that defense/special teams.

 

[HellToupee]

1- I'm not bailing on FWP but can't say I feel the same going into the game about him. I knew running would be tough but not this bad

2- RM was a disaster last night. Spinning into the hole instead of hitting it hard reminds me of Maroney.

3- Don't care what the stats said MM ran the hardest. And MM getting that late 4th Q 3&1 carry might be telling .

 

[Godsbrother]

Ben is the king of the comeback, 18 4th quarter comebacks since 2004, most in the league.

Ben is a very good QB but this stat is somewhat misleading to a certain extent. There are plenty of what if's in a game and I don't usually like playing that game but I think playing with an extremly good defense helps out this comeback kid.

For example Ben's 4th quarter come back in last nights game was one that was only a 3 point deficit. And not only was it only 3 points the score was only 10-7. Also, his special teams did block a field goal as well to add to the heroics of Ben being called Mr. comeback.

I do have to admit though that there are limited QB's in the league that you would want leading your team in late game situations than Ben, but lets not give him all the love for these comebacks.

I agree with you 100% here. If the steelers didn't have such a great D, there is no way he has close to that many comebacks. He turned the ball over 2x that game and imo the titans were simply outplaying the steelers all game long . The only reason he had a chance for a comeback was bc of that defense/special teams.

The second pick was hail mary at the end of the half -- it certainly wasn't a factor in the game. For most of the game that I watched I didn't see either team outplaying the other. The only offensive stat in the Titans favor last night was rushing yards and I hardly consider 86 yards on 25 a dominating performance. Roethlisberger threw for 363 yards and engineered four drives over 90 yards despite having no running game against one of the best defenses in the NFL.

 

[thekidd2009]

Ben is the king of the comeback, 18 4th quarter comebacks since 2004, most in the league.

Ben is a very good QB but this stat is somewhat misleading to a certain extent. There are plenty of what if's in a game and I don't usually like playing that game but I think playing with an extremly good defense helps out this comeback kid.

For example Ben's 4th quarter come back in last nights game was one that was only a 3 point deficit. And not only was it only 3 points the score was only 10-7. Also, his special teams did block a field goal as well to add to the heroics of Ben being called Mr. comeback.

I do have to admit though that there are limited QB's in the league that you would want leading your team in late game situations than Ben, but lets not give him all the love for these comebacks.

I agree with you 100% here. If the steelers didn't have such a great D, there is no way he has close to that many comebacks. He turned the ball over 2x that game and imo the titans were simply outplaying the steelers all game long . The only reason he had a chance for a comeback was bc of that defense/special teams.

The second pick was hail mary at the end of the half -- it certainly wasn't a factor in the game. For most of the game that I watched I didn't see either team outplaying the other. The only offensive stat in the Titans favor last night was rushing yards and I hardly consider 86 yards on 25 a dominating performance. Roethlisberger threw for 363 yards and engineered four drives over 90 yards despite having no running game against one of the best defenses in the NFL.

I'll give you that the hailmary shouldn't count against him. I'm a dolphins fan and have no bias when watching this game, and to me, the titans were outplaying the steelers. Bironas missed fg and the steelers blocking a fg (both short fg's at that) were what determined the game. Granted, i'm not taking anything away from the steelers or Ben, but i'm just saying the ball always seems to bounce in favor of the steelers.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Titans

3) Lendale White ran well. He ran hard and picked up good yardage based on the defense.

[Agree. I think he has 10+ TDs again this year.]

4) Kenny Brit needs to learn to finish plays.

[He will. He is 20 and 2nd youngest player in NFL. Dang good for game 1.]

8) Craig Stevens needs to be back on the bench.

[He will be. Cook will be there even when Bo is back. Not sure what the attraction is with Cook.]

9) The Titans need to be more creative with Chris Johnson.

[Can't believe they haven't been. He needs to be on the corner...a lot. I have no idea why they don't throw to him more.]

10) The Special teams are going to be horrid.

[Let's separate them. Kicking/punting/KR I think they'll be fine. PR -- yes, this is a problem. I do think they'll address this asap. Frankly, Mouton is set to be the punt returner and is to be back for next game. I think they bring in someone that is a WR and PR/KR or a CB and PR/KR, as well.]

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Hines Ward is a great possession WR. Nobody runs against either of these teams all yearMy boy Britt gonna be a stud...

the numbers look good, but most of his yards came on one catch where the DB didnt cover him. It wasnt a great move he made to gain separation or anything like that. The Steelers corner just messed up. He did get some good yards after the catch, and looked like he had some potential on other plays. I think realistically he wont be a stud until next year.

Let's talk about another play, Troy's INT. Go back and watch it. Britt had completely BURNED Troy bigtime and KFC just didn't get the ball there. If he does...TD Titans.

 

[The Jerk]

Ben is the king of the comeback, 18 4th quarter comebacks since 2004, most in the league.

Ben is a very good QB but this stat is somewhat misleading to a certain extent. There are plenty of what if's in a game and I don't usually like playing that game but I think playing with an extremly good defense helps out this comeback kid. For example Ben's 4th quarter come back in last nights game was one that was only a 3 point deficit. And not only was it only 3 points the score was only 10-7. Also, his special teams did block a field goal as well to add to the heroics of Ben being called Mr. comeback. I do have to admit though that there are limited QB's in the league that you would want leading your team in late game situations than Ben, but lets not give him all the love for these comebacks.

I agree with you 100% here. If the steelers didn't have such a great D, there is no way he has close to that many comebacks. He turned the ball over 2x that game and imo the titans were simply outplaying the steelers all game long. The only reason he had a chance for a comeback was bc of that defense/special teams.

Some of his comebacks can be attributable to the D. Of course, that might be said for a number of the greatest comeback QBs such as Marino and Elway. However, if last year is an indicator, it's a little bit of everything. In the two regular season comebacks against Baltimore, a defensive score helped get the Steelers back to within one score in the first game and the second game was a lot like last night's Steelers-Titans game down to within one point of the identical score. I think it's fair to include Dallas in that category, although there the drive only tied the game before an INT return TD won it. Still, the comeback in Jacksonville and in the Super Bowl can hardly be credited to defensive dominance. And what about San Diego with an 11-10 final but where Ben was 31-41-308 with no interceptions. It's not like he stunk it up all game long until the end.The bottom line to me is that while these discussions are fun, they're fairly meaningless in terms of comparisons. Some QBs might not have as many comeback chances due to being on weaker teams or whose teams tend to just keep scoring. They may or may not be "better" or "worse" than Ben. What I can say is that for the Steelers as their team is constructed with the strong defense and mediocre offensive line, Ben may be the perfect combination. How many other QBs can extend plays and avoid the rush and take the punishment and still pull out these victories? There may be some, but it's impossible to prove either way. Each situation is unique.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

If Finnegan turns the Hail Mary INT to the middle as he crossed midfield it would have gone for a TD. Sideline was too crowded.

 

[The Jerk]

Granted, i'm not taking anything away from the steelers or Ben, but i'm just saying the ball always seems to bounce in favor of the steelers.

Love this combination. Just like when someone says, "I don't mean to be critical, but..." or "Sorry if this comes out rude, but..."Have the Steelers earned ANY wins in the past six seasons?I suppose it's time for them to swap logos with Indianapolis.

 

[The Ref]

i was at the game and i haven't seen many replays so your perspective might be better than mine, but it looked to me that the issue with the steelers running game wasn't the backs but the line. i would hesitate to stick a fork in FWP or to dismiss Mendenhall based on last night's game. looked to me that there was absolutely no room to run.

This.You can't make any educated decisions based on last nights game. AD wouldn't have produced 50 yards rushing the way the run blocking looked.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The Titans looked defeated at the end of that game. Home field advantage is real. If they had gotten the ball in OT first it wouldn't have mattered.

I thought Britt looked pretty good for his first NFL game. He's going to be a playmaker and could change that offense.

 

[thekidd2009]

Ben is the king of the comeback, 18 4th quarter comebacks since 2004, most in the league.

Ben is a very good QB but this stat is somewhat misleading to a certain extent. There are plenty of what if's in a game and I don't usually like playing that game but I think playing with an extremly good defense helps out this comeback kid. For example Ben's 4th quarter come back in last nights game was one that was only a 3 point deficit. And not only was it only 3 points the score was only 10-7. Also, his special teams did block a field goal as well to add to the heroics of Ben being called Mr. comeback. I do have to admit though that there are limited QB's in the league that you would want leading your team in late game situations than Ben, but lets not give him all the love for these comebacks.

I agree with you 100% here. If the steelers didn't have such a great D, there is no way he has close to that many comebacks. He turned the ball over 2x that game and imo the titans were simply outplaying the steelers all game long. The only reason he had a chance for a comeback was bc of that defense/special teams.

Some of his comebacks can be attributable to the D. Of course, that might be said for a number of the greatest comeback QBs such as Marino and Elway. However, if last year is an indicator, it's a little bit of everything. In the two regular season comebacks against Baltimore, a defensive score helped get the Steelers back to within one score in the first game and the second game was a lot like last night's Steelers-Titans game down to within one point of the identical score. I think it's fair to include Dallas in that category, although there the drive only tied the game before an INT return TD won it. Still, the comeback in Jacksonville and in the Super Bowl can hardly be credited to defensive dominance. And what about San Diego with an 11-10 final but where Ben was 31-41-308 with no interceptions. It's not like he stunk it up all game long until the end.The bottom line to me is that while these discussions are fun, they're fairly meaningless in terms of comparisons. Some QBs might not have as many comeback chances due to being on weaker teams or whose teams tend to just keep scoring. They may or may not be "better" or "worse" than Ben. What I can say is that for the Steelers as their team is constructed with the strong defense and mediocre offensive line, Ben may be the perfect combination. How many other QBs can extend plays and avoid the rush and take the punishment and still pull out these victories? There may be some, but it's impossible to prove either way. Each situation is unique.

I agree that "comebacks" are very subjective and it's hard to determine much by debating it. I also agree that Ben is the best fit for the steelers because that o line is terrible. But at the same time, I saw a couple of times where Ben had men open in the flats and wouldn't throw the ball bc he wanted to get the ball down field. I personally like that and am in favor for qb's going down the field with the ball rather than checking down.About the superbowl last year...i don't think there is any qb that could've or would've made that throw to holmes in triple coverage. That was an incredible play by both Ben and Holmes.

 

[The Ref]

1- I'm not bailing on FWP but can't say I feel the same going into the game about him. I knew running would be tough but not this bad

2- RM was a disaster last night. Spinning into the hole instead of hitting it hard reminds me of Maroney.

3- Don't care what the stats said MM ran the hardest. And MM getting that late 4th Q 3&1 carry might be telling .

They were going with a spread O for the last 7:30 of the game (and they should have), and the 3&1 play was run on the quick to catch the D by suprise. Moore was good as a third down back last night, but he couldn't run the ball inbetween the tackles either (see the results of said 3&1).

 

[Godsbrother]

Ben is the king of the comeback, 18 4th quarter comebacks since 2004, most in the league.

Ben is a very good QB but this stat is somewhat misleading to a certain extent. There are plenty of what if's in a game and I don't usually like playing that game but I think playing with an extremly good defense helps out this comeback kid.

For example Ben's 4th quarter come back in last nights game was one that was only a 3 point deficit. And not only was it only 3 points the score was only 10-7. Also, his special teams did block a field goal as well to add to the heroics of Ben being called Mr. comeback.

I do have to admit though that there are limited QB's in the league that you would want leading your team in late game situations than Ben, but lets not give him all the love for these comebacks.

I agree with you 100% here. If the steelers didn't have such a great D, there is no way he has close to that many comebacks. He turned the ball over 2x that game and imo the titans were simply outplaying the steelers all game long . The only reason he had a chance for a comeback was bc of that defense/special teams.

The second pick was hail mary at the end of the half -- it certainly wasn't a factor in the game. For most of the game that I watched I didn't see either team outplaying the other. The only offensive stat in the Titans favor last night was rushing yards and I hardly consider 86 yards on 25 a dominating performance. Roethlisberger threw for 363 yards and engineered four drives over 90 yards despite having no running game against one of the best defenses in the NFL.

I'll give you that the hailmary shouldn't count against him. I'm a dolphins fan and have no bias when watching this game, and to me, the titans were outplaying the steelers. Bironas missed fg and the steelers blocking a fg (both short fg's at that) were what determined the game. Granted, i'm not taking anything away from the steelers or Ben, but i'm just saying the ball always seems to bounce in favor of the steelers.

The missed FG and blocked FG were poor execution by the Titans not lucky bounces of the ball. Hines Ward fumbling the ball at the 5 yard line is as much or more of an oddity.

 

[Godsbrother]

1- I'm not bailing on FWP but can't say I feel the same going into the game about him. I knew running would be tough but not this bad

2- RM was a disaster last night. Spinning into the hole instead of hitting it hard reminds me of Maroney.

3- Don't care what the stats said MM ran the hardest. And MM getting that late 4th Q 3&1 carry might be telling .

They were going with a spread O for the last 7:30 of the game (and they should have), and the 3&1 play was run on the quick to catch the D by suprise. Moore was good as a third down back last night, but he couldn't run the ball inbetween the tackles either (see the results of said 3&1).

There was very little to be gained on the ground against the Titans last night no matter who the RB was. They just completely shut it down.

 

[JawboneHill]

1) Kerry Collins looked really good.

No, I disagree. Britt could have had a "big" breakout game, had Collins not underthrown him twice, once on the INT and the other on the big gain when the CB disappeared. Both times he had to stop to try to catch the ball. Maybe it's chemistry, but give the kid a lead.

 

[thekidd2009]

For example Ben's 4th quarter come back in last nights game was one that was only a 3 point deficit. And not only was it only 3 points the score was only 10-7. Also, his special teams did block a field goal as well to add to the heroics of Ben being called Mr. comeback.

I do have to admit though that there are limited QB's in the league that you would want leading your team in late game situations than Ben, but lets not give him all the love for these comebacks.

I agree with you 100% here. If the steelers didn't have such a great D, there is no way he has close to that many comebacks. He turned the ball over 2x that game and imo the titans were simply outplaying the steelers all game long . The only reason he had a chance for a comeback was bc of that defense/special teams.

The second pick was hail mary at the end of the half -- it certainly wasn't a factor in the game. For most of the game that I watched I didn't see either team outplaying the other. The only offensive stat in the Titans favor last night was rushing yards and I hardly consider 86 yards on 25 a dominating performance.

Roethlisberger threw for 363 yards and engineered four drives over 90 yards despite having no running game against one of the best defenses in the NFL.

I'll give you that the hailmary shouldn't count against him. I'm a dolphins fan and have no bias when watching this game, and to me, the titans were outplaying the steelers. Bironas missed fg and the steelers blocking a fg (both short fg's at that) were what determined the game. Granted, i'm not taking anything away from the steelers or Ben, but i'm just saying the ball always seems to bounce in favor of the steelers.

The missed FG and blocked FG were poor execution by the Titans not lucky bounces of the ball. Hines Ward fumbling the ball at the 5 yard line is as much or more of an oddity.

Being that you are a steelers fan, of course you would feel that way. Missing a 27 yard fg and having a 31 yard fg blocked is a pretty odd thing as well. If the field goals were longer, i would agree with you on the hines ward fumble, but Bironas should have made both. I didn't re-watch the game or anything but there is no excuse for a 31yd fg to be blocked.

 

[pghrob]

Not giving Big Ben the credit he deserves for being a great come from behind quarterback with game winning drives seems inappropriate.

The stat of "come from behind wins" is objective. Normally, the team is losing, it is late in the game, and the quarterback, as leader of the offense, engineers the drive for the go ahead score. How can that be attributable to anybody other than the quarterback?

How can the situation for Roethlisberger's 4th quarter come from behind wins (based on his game winning drives) be any different (less praise worthy) as compared to any other quarterback of a team that has trailed late in the game, who was not able to have done what was necessary to get his offense in a position to score the go ahead points to win the game?

Edited here to add that it is pointless to debate how a team was trailing late in the game when the winning quarterback engineered the come from behind winning drive. Either you are losing late you or not. How you got there has no merit in determining whether or not the come from behind, go ahead drive occurred or not.

Give Roethlisberger credit where credit is due.

 

[Judge Smails]

This I know - the Steelers will miss Gary Russell more than they ever imagined. Looks like every 3rd and a yard and a half will be from the shotgun. FWP has shown that he can't get even a yard without a hole - can't drive a pile. Not what you want in a short yardage back.

 

[Copeman]

This I know - the Steelers will miss Gary Russell more than they ever imagined. Looks like every 3rd and a yard and a half will be from the shotgun. FWP has shown that he can't get even a yard without a hole - can't drive a pile. Not what you want in a short yardage back.

You know all this after 1 game against one of the best run defenses in the league? Go you.

 

[Judge Smails]

This I know - the Steelers will miss Gary Russell more than they ever imagined. Looks like every 3rd and a yard and a half will be from the shotgun. FWP has shown that he can't get even a yard without a hole - can't drive a pile. Not what you want in a short yardage back.

You know all this after 1 game against one of the best run defenses in the league? Go you.

What you saw with Willie Parker in short yardage last night is no different than what you saw the last 2 years from him against every team in the league. Or do you think the Steelers try guys like Russell and Davenport in short yardage because they were elite talents and FWP can do the job? The reason FWP was announced as the short yardage back is because a) Russell is gone b) Moore is the 3rd down back and not ideal c) Mendenhall plays like a deer in the headlights. All that being said, Parker is one of the worst short yardage backs in the league. Shotgun on 3rd and 1 all year. Watch.

 

[Peter_Griffin]

I learned that Santonio Holmes will catch anything thrown anywhere near him. I don't think he missed a pass all night and made a few nice grabs with his fingers.

 

[Godsbrother]

Being that you are a steelers fan, of course you would feel that way. Missing a 27 yard fg and having a 31 yard fg blocked is a pretty odd thing as well. If the field goals were longer, i would agree with you on the hines ward fumble, but Bironas should have made both. I didn't re-watch the game or anything but there is no excuse for a 31yd fg to be blocked.

The excuse is the Titans failed to execute just like any number of plays that occurred throughout the game. There was no excuse for Roethlisberger to take a sack that moved them out of FG range when he had ample time to get rid of the ball. There was not excuse for Ward to fumble the ball on the 5 yard line. They screwed up just like Bironas and the Titan's longsnapper. We could go on and on...

 

[The Jerk]

Not giving Big Ben the credit he deserves for being a great come from behind quarterback with game winning drives seems inappropriate.The stat of "come from behind wins" is objective. Normally, the team is losing, it is late in the game, and the quarterback, as leader of the offense, engineers the drive for the go ahead score. How can that be attributable to anybody other than the quarterback?How can the situation for Roethlisberger's 4th quarter come from behind wins (based on his game winning drives) be any different (less praise worthy) as compared to any other quarterback of a team that has trailed late in the game, who was not able to have done what was necessary to get his offense in a position to score the go ahead points to win the game? Edited here to add that it is pointless to debate how a team was trailing late in the game when the winning quarterback engineered the come from behind winning drive. Either you are losing late you or not. How you got there has no merit in determining whether or not the come from behind, go ahead drive occurred or not. Give Roethlisberger credit where credit is due.

I can agree with this, but only on a percentage basis. Even then, I can only agree to a point. An argument can be made that a QB on any good team, but especially on a team with a good defense, has a better chance of being in the game late in the game to even have the chance to come back. If your team is down by 17 points in the 4th quarter, you're not going to bring them back, period. So an argument can be made that Ben gets more opportunities. That's why I'm saying the better statistic might be game-winning drives per opportunity.Still, I think another component of game-winning drives is having talent to throw the ball to and to protect the QB. So that matters, too. In this area, especially where the line is concerned, Ben is not getting as much help as from the defense, whereas other QBs might have a top-flight OL and some have better receivers overall.Back to where we started, in my opinion. It's a meaningful statistic on some level but it reflects as much on the team as it does on the QB and doesn't necessarily mean a given QB is better or worse than another.

 

[Copeman]

This I know - the Steelers will miss Gary Russell more than they ever imagined. Looks like every 3rd and a yard and a half will be from the shotgun. FWP has shown that he can't get even a yard without a hole - can't drive a pile. Not what you want in a short yardage back.

You know all this after 1 game against one of the best run defenses in the league? Go you.

What you saw with Willie Parker in short yardage last night is no different than what you saw the last 2 years from him against every team in the league. Or do you think the Steelers try guys like Russell and Davenport in short yardage because they were elite talents and FWP can do the job? The reason FWP was announced as the short yardage back is because a) Russell is gone b) Moore is the 3rd down back and not ideal c) Mendenhall plays like a deer in the headlights. All that being said, Parker is one of the worst short yardage backs in the league. Shotgun on 3rd and 1 all year. Watch.

Yeah, I wouldn't doubt it. But I don't blame Willie as much as most. I do lay some of the blame on the line as well. Afterall, he was able to do it fine 3-4 years ago when the line was better.

 

[thekidd2009]

Not giving Big Ben the credit he deserves for being a great come from behind quarterback with game winning drives seems inappropriate.The stat of "come from behind wins" is objective. Normally, the team is losing, it is late in the game, and the quarterback, as leader of the offense, engineers the drive for the go ahead score. How can that be attributable to anybody other than the quarterback?How can the situation for Roethlisberger's 4th quarter come from behind wins (based on his game winning drives) be any different (less praise worthy) as compared to any other quarterback of a team that has trailed late in the game, who was not able to have done what was necessary to get his offense in a position to score the go ahead points to win the game? Edited here to add that it is pointless to debate how a team was trailing late in the game when the winning quarterback engineered the come from behind winning drive. Either you are losing late you or not. How you got there has no merit in determining whether or not the come from behind, go ahead drive occurred or not. Give Roethlisberger credit where credit is due.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Ben here i'm just pointing out that it is a subjective stat. When the game is tied, how is that a "comeback." Also, to my knowledge, the teams of the qb that makes the "comeback" keeps these numbers. I've looked into this before and these stats can be misleading...that is not to say that Ben's comebacks are i'm just stating what i know.

 

[Godsbrother]

This I know - the Steelers will miss Gary Russell more than they ever imagined. Looks like every 3rd and a yard and a half will be from the shotgun. FWP has shown that he can't get even a yard without a hole - can't drive a pile. Not what you want in a short yardage back.

You know all this after 1 game against one of the best run defenses in the league? Go you.

What you saw with Willie Parker in short yardage last night is no different than what you saw the last 2 years from him against every team in the league. Or do you think the Steelers try guys like Russell and Davenport in short yardage because they were elite talents and FWP can do the job? The reason FWP was announced as the short yardage back is because a) Russell is gone b) Moore is the 3rd down back and not ideal c) Mendenhall plays like a deer in the headlights. All that being said, Parker is one of the worst short yardage backs in the league. Shotgun on 3rd and 1 all year. Watch.

A couple years ago Parker had 13 rushing TDs. The main problem is a change in philosophy and a crappy o-line.

 

[Godsbrother]

Not giving Big Ben the credit he deserves for being a great come from behind quarterback with game winning drives seems inappropriate.

The stat of "come from behind wins" is objective. Normally, the team is losing, it is late in the game, and the quarterback, as leader of the offense, engineers the drive for the go ahead score. How can that be attributable to anybody other than the quarterback?

How can the situation for Roethlisberger's 4th quarter come from behind wins (based on his game winning drives) be any different (less praise worthy) as compared to any other quarterback of a team that has trailed late in the game, who was not able to have done what was necessary to get his offense in a position to score the go ahead points to win the game?

Edited here to add that it is pointless to debate how a team was trailing late in the game when the winning quarterback engineered the come from behind winning drive. Either you are losing late you or not. How you got there has no merit in determining whether or not the come from behind, go ahead drive occurred or not.

Give Roethlisberger credit where credit is due.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Ben here i'm just pointing out that it is a subjective stat. When the game is tied, how is that a "comeback." Also, to my knowledge, the teams of the qb that makes the "comeback" keeps these numbers. I've looked into this before and these stats can be misleading...that is not to say that Ben's comebacks are i'm just stating what i know.

The term comeback may be a bit of a misnomer. I am pretty sure they say he had so many game winning drives in the 4th quarter and OT verses come-from-behind victories. At least I think that is the way I usually hear it put...

 

[thekidd2009]

Unfortunately, comebacks aren't an official NFL stat, and comeback statistics were compiled by individual teams for inclusion in media guides. That places "comebacks" in the same netherworld that tackle statistics occupied for much of NFL history. In their hurry to promote Elway, the Broncos' media department included every fourth-quarter drive Elway engineered that led to a winning score, even if the Broncos never trailed, even if Elway never threw a pass. In their zeal, they included one "comeback" that actually resulted in a tie.

This makes comebacks a very subjective stat just like tackles, so whoever stated that it was "very objective" is misinformed.

 

[The Jerk]

Unfortunately, comebacks aren't an official NFL stat, and comeback statistics were compiled by individual teams for inclusion in media guides. That places "comebacks" in the same netherworld that tackle statistics occupied for much of NFL history. In their hurry to promote Elway, the Broncos' media department included every fourth-quarter drive Elway engineered that led to a winning score, even if the Broncos never trailed, even if Elway never threw a pass. In their zeal, they included one "comeback" that actually resulted in a tie.

This makes comebacks a very subjective stat just like tackles, so whoever stated that it was "very objective" is misinformed.

This is correct.QBs and 4th quarter comebacks, part 1

QBs and 4th quarter comebacks, part 2

both from pro-football-reference.com

 

[Copeman]

Not giving Big Ben the credit he deserves for being a great come from behind quarterback with game winning drives seems inappropriate.

The stat of "come from behind wins" is objective. Normally, the team is losing, it is late in the game, and the quarterback, as leader of the offense, engineers the drive for the go ahead score. How can that be attributable to anybody other than the quarterback?

How can the situation for Roethlisberger's 4th quarter come from behind wins (based on his game winning drives) be any different (less praise worthy) as compared to any other quarterback of a team that has trailed late in the game, who was not able to have done what was necessary to get his offense in a position to score the go ahead points to win the game?

Edited here to add that it is pointless to debate how a team was trailing late in the game when the winning quarterback engineered the come from behind winning drive. Either you are losing late you or not. How you got there has no merit in determining whether or not the come from behind, go ahead drive occurred or not.

Give Roethlisberger credit where credit is due.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Ben here i'm just pointing out that it is a subjective stat. When the game is tied, how is that a "comeback." Also, to my knowledge, the teams of the qb that makes the "comeback" keeps these numbers. I've looked into this before and these stats can be misleading...that is not to say that Ben's comebacks are i'm just stating what i know.

The term comeback may be a bit of a misnomer. I am pretty sure they say he had so many game winning drives in the 4th quarter and OT verses come-from-behind victories. At least I think that is the way I usually hear it put...

That's how I always hear it put.

 

[Judge Smails]

This I know - the Steelers will miss Gary Russell more than they ever imagined. Looks like every 3rd and a yard and a half will be from the shotgun. FWP has shown that he can't get even a yard without a hole - can't drive a pile. Not what you want in a short yardage back.

You know all this after 1 game against one of the best run defenses in the league? Go you.

What you saw with Willie Parker in short yardage last night is no different than what you saw the last 2 years from him against every team in the league. Or do you think the Steelers try guys like Russell and Davenport in short yardage because they were elite talents and FWP can do the job? The reason FWP was announced as the short yardage back is because a) Russell is gone b) Moore is the 3rd down back and not ideal c) Mendenhall plays like a deer in the headlights. All that being said, Parker is one of the worst short yardage backs in the league. Shotgun on 3rd and 1 all year. Watch.

A couple years ago Parker had 13 rushing TDs. The main problem is a change in philosophy and a crappy o-line.

I don't disagree. And by no means is this all on FWP. But an effective short yardage back can move a pile a yard when there is nothing there. I don't konw the percentages, but Gary Russell seemed almost automatic last year on 3rd and 1. Getting something when there is nothing there is what good short yardage backs do. FWP ain't it.

 

[pghrob]

Not giving Big Ben the credit he deserves for being a great come from behind quarterback with game winning drives seems inappropriate.The stat of "come from behind wins" is objective. Normally, the team is losing, it is late in the game, and the quarterback, as leader of the offense, engineers the drive for the go ahead score. How can that be attributable to anybody other than the quarterback?How can the situation for Roethlisberger's 4th quarter come from behind wins (based on his game winning drives) be any different (less praise worthy) as compared to any other quarterback of a team that has trailed late in the game, who was not able to have done what was necessary to get his offense in a position to score the go ahead points to win the game? Edited here to add that it is pointless to debate how a team was trailing late in the game when the winning quarterback engineered the come from behind winning drive. Either you are losing late you or not. How you got there has no merit in determining whether or not the come from behind, go ahead drive occurred or not. Give Roethlisberger credit where credit is due.

I can agree with this, but only on a percentage basis. Even then, I can only agree to a point. An argument can be made that a QB on any good team, but especially on a team with a good defense, has a better chance of being in the game late in the game to even have the chance to come back. If your team is down by 17 points in the 4th quarter, you're not going to bring them back, period. So an argument can be made that Ben gets more opportunities. That's why I'm saying the better statistic might be game-winning drives per opportunity.Still, I think another component of game-winning drives is having talent to throw the ball to and to protect the QB. So that matters, too. In this area, especially where the line is concerned, Ben is not getting as much help as from the defense, whereas other QBs might have a top-flight OL and some have better receivers overall.Back to where we started, in my opinion. It's a meaningful statistic on some level but it reflects as much on the team as it does on the QB and doesn't necessarily mean a given QB is better or worse than another.

The data should be readily available to set a standard definition for what a come from behind win is.i.e. Trailing by 6 points or less with less than 4 minutes left in the game, and leading your team to the go ahead score.Doing this negates any argument about being on a good team with a good defense having a better chance, doesn't it?Regarding surrounding talent....there is no denying that historically great quarterbacks usually have been surrounded by good talent. I am just trying to point out that a qb led, late in the game, come from behind win should compare favorably with other qb led, late in the game, come from behind wins.

 

[The Jerk]

I'm not trying to take anything away from Ben here i'm just pointing out that it is a subjective stat. When the game is tied, how is that a "comeback." Also, to my knowledge, the teams of the qb that makes the "comeback" keeps these numbers. I've looked into this before and these stats can be misleading...that is not to say that Ben's comebacks are i'm just stating what i know.

The term comeback may be a bit of a misnomer. I am pretty sure they say he had so many game winning drives in the 4th quarter and OT verses come-from-behind victories. At least I think that is the way I usually hear it put...

Regardless of how the statistic is defined and its subjective nature, I think most people would agree that the list of QBs who are preferable to Ben in late game scenarios is very short.Ironically, the best stretch of Ben's career was the 2005 playoff run through the AFC, and in those three games, he registered exactly 0 late game comeback/go-ahead drives.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Isaac Redman, Where Art Thou.

 

[thekidd2009]

I'm not trying to take anything away from Ben here i'm just pointing out that it is a subjective stat. When the game is tied, how is that a "comeback." Also, to my knowledge, the teams of the qb that makes the "comeback" keeps these numbers. I've looked into this before and these stats can be misleading...that is not to say that Ben's comebacks are i'm just stating what i know.

The term comeback may be a bit of a misnomer. I am pretty sure they say he had so many game winning drives in the 4th quarter and OT verses come-from-behind victories. At least I think that is the way I usually hear it put...

Regardless of how the statistic is defined and its subjective nature, I think most people would agree that the list of QBs who are preferable to Ben in late game scenarios is very short.Ironically, the best stretch of Ben's career was the 2005 playoff run through the AFC, and in those three games, he registered exactly 0 late game comeback/go-ahead drives.

Yea i do agree that Ben does have a knack to preform best when the pressure is on and is pretty remarkable at coming through in the clutch.

 

[thekidd2009]

Unfortunately, comebacks aren't an official NFL stat, and comeback statistics were compiled by individual teams for inclusion in media guides. That places "comebacks" in the same netherworld that tackle statistics occupied for much of NFL history. In their hurry to promote Elway, the Broncos' media department included every fourth-quarter drive Elway engineered that led to a winning score, even if the Broncos never trailed, even if Elway never threw a pass. In their zeal, they included one "comeback" that actually resulted in a tie.

This makes comebacks a very subjective stat just like tackles, so whoever stated that it was "very objective" is misinformed.

This is correct.QBs and 4th quarter comebacks, part 1

QBs and 4th quarter comebacks, part 2

both from pro-football-reference.com

Thanks for the links...very informative.

 

[Class Dismissed]

BR is seriously undervalued fantasy QB this year, here threw for 363 yards against a very good defense. He has great weapons and a favorable schedule.

With the lack of ground game from the Steelers, coupled with Bruce Arians penchant to throw the ball, I can see him in the Top 5 this year.

 

[Sheriff66]

Let's talk about another play, Troy's INT. Go back and watch it. Britt had completely BURNED Troy bigtime and KFC just didn't get the ball there. If he does...TD Titans.

How about Ben underthrowing Mike Wallace who had toasted the whole Titans secondary on the first drive, Wallace walks into the end zone untouched if Ben leads him a little bit. Oh, and Britt should have been called for offensive PI on that play as well for pushing Polamalu