What if Brees stayed in San Diego? (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

He's having a terrific year maybe/likely one for the record books. LT is having a super year too.

Do you think the Chargers would have been comparable to the Super Bowl Rams teams with Faulk and Warner both doing extremely well and up for MVP or do you think there "wouldn't be enough footballs to go around"?

 

[Crimson Hawk]

I don't know but a Saints/Chargers Superbowl would be pretty cool.

 

[Banger]

I don't think the Chargers would be doing any better (or worse) than they are now. I think Brees stepped into the perfect situation and he's taking full advantage of it.

 

[Ozymandias]

I don't think the Chargers would be doing any better (or worse) than they are now. I think Brees stepped into the perfect situation and he's taking full advantage of it.

 

[omally]

Two totally different coaching styles. The Saints throw the ball more than the Chargers. I think Brees would be having the usual year he's had in the past, if he had stayed with San Diego.

 

[DanFouts]

Brees playing well, but they are throwing a lot. Rivers playing just as well in the SD system that keys on LT...

 

[salmonstud]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

 

[gman8343]

to me the more interesting question is what would have happened if Brees had gone to Miami instead of Culp.

 

[Sweeper]

to me the more interesting question is what would have happened if Brees had gone to Miami instead of Culp.

There you go. As a Pats homer, a Miami team with a good QB would really scare me. The Pats have a hard enough time against the Phins, never mind if they actually had a GOOD QB.

 

[FinHead]

I don't know but a Saints/Chargers Superbowl would be pretty cool.

to me the more interesting question is what would have happened if Brees had gone to Miami instead of Culp.

What might have been

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

The Saints would be much worse.

 

[saintsfan]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

 

[Foosball God]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

It's not quite as lopsided as it looks since SD didn't get anything for Brees.

 

[UCLAGIE]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

It's not quite as lopsided as it looks since SD didn't get anything for Brees.

Brees was selected by the Chargers with their own 2nd round pick that year. He wasnt a part of the LT for Vick trade and the Chargers will get a third round pick for Brees leaving

 

[zamboni]

Taking a different angle, as great as he is, I don't think LT would be putting up quite the numbers he has. Still great numbers, but I think the offense would be more balanced and less overly reliant on LT.

 

[cstu]

The Chargers would probably be doing about the same, but I'm amazed at Brees' arm strength this year. He's making throws now that he never made in SD. I'm one of the people that wanted the Chargers to let him go in favor of Rivers, but I'm really happy for the guy and would love a SD/NO Super Bowl.

 

[Foosball God]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

It's not quite as lopsided as it looks since SD didn't get anything for Brees.

Brees was selected by the Chargers with their own 2nd round pick that year. He wasnt a part of the LT for Vick trade and the Chargers will get a third round pick for Brees leaving

You're right. I forgot about the compensation picks.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Taking a different angle, as great as he is, I don't think LT would be putting up quite the numbers he has. Still great numbers, but I think the offense would be more balanced and less overly reliant on LT.

Tomlinson is averaging 26 touches a game this year, exactly in line with his career average.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

He's having a terrific year maybe/likely one for the record books. LT is having a super year too.Do you think the Chargers would have been comparable to the Super Bowl Rams teams with Faulk and Warner both doing extremely well and up for MVP or do you think there "wouldn't be enough footballs to go around"?

Don't look now, but the Chargers are on pace to score about as many points as the 1999 Rams scored. The Rams scored 526 points in 1999. The Chargers have scored 425 points in 13 games this year, which extrapolates out to 523 points for the season.

 

[BGP]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

It's not quite as lopsided as it looks since SD didn't get anything for Brees.

That not right. The Chargers DID get something for Brees. They got 4 years of service time as a starting QB from 2002 thru 2005. The last two years of that he did very well. He helped lead them to a 12-4 record in 2004 and the playoffs.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

It's not quite as lopsided as it looks since SD didn't get anything for Brees.

That not right. The Chargers DID get something for Brees. They got 4 years of service time as a starting QB from 2002 thru 2005. The last two years of that he did very well. He helped lead them to a 12-4 record in 2004 and the playoffs.

Yes. The Packers won't "get anything for" Brett Favre, but that doesn't mean their trade with Atlanta wasn't lopsided. (As UCLAGIE points out, however, Brees wasn't really part of the trade.)

 

[krash]

I wonder what Eli Manning thinks about this?

 

[Riffraff]

Chargers 425 points thus far, #1 in the NFL.

Saints are #2, about 75 points behind.

Both teams are doing well with their QBs.

 

[Sweeper]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

It's not quite as lopsided as it looks since SD didn't get anything for Brees.

That not right. The Chargers DID get something for Brees. They got 4 years of service time as a starting QB from 2002 thru 2005. The last two years of that he did very well. He helped lead them to a 12-4 record in 2004 and the playoffs.

Not to mention he took their young QB under his wing and groomed him to be the QB he is today. If you ask me it is no coincidence that both QB's are doing so well.

 

[Banger]

I actually think Rivers is the perfect QB for the Chargers. I've watched the team through all the Brees years and this year with Rivers and although the line is better this year I think the Chargers are definitely better off long term with Rivers at the helm. He's just a better QB IMO. This isn't a slight to Brees because he's a good QB but I believe Rivers has the potential to be a very good QB (he's pretty good already).

 

[CrossEyed]

Taking a different angle, as great as he is, I don't think LT would be putting up quite the numbers he has. Still great numbers, but I think the offense would be more balanced and less overly reliant on LT.

Rivers has attempted 383 passes. LT has run the ball 285 times. How have they overly relied on LT?

 

[johnnyfb]

I don't know but a Saints/Chargers Superbowl would be pretty cool.

to me the more interesting question is what would have happened if Brees had gone to Miami instead of Culp.

What might have been

Or better yet... what if Chicago had snagged him when they had the chance? 16-0 Bears team?

 

[redman]

Chargers 425 points thus far, #1 in the NFL.Saints are #2, about 75 points behind.Both teams are doing well with their QBs.

Brees' departure for New Orleans was good for the NFL. It revitalized one team (the Saints) and it didn't hurt the Chargers given Rivers' skill and the dominance of LT and that defense. I'm happy it happened as a NFL fan.

 

[acme]

I actually think Rivers is the perfect QB for the Chargers. I've watched the team through all the Brees years and this year with Rivers and although the line is better this year I think the Chargers are definitely better off long term with Rivers at the helm. He's just a better QB IMO. This isn't a slight to Brees because he's a good QB but I believe Rivers has the potential to be a very good QB (he's pretty good already).

I could be WAY off base here but i seem to remember some kind of outright SILLY Superbowl bonus incentive in Rivers' contract that was to be paid if he were to win the SB in his first 4 seasons... anyone else rember this? OR am i just a nut?

 

[Daywalker]

If I was San Diego and facing Chicago or Baltimore I'd much rather have Brees at the helm.

 

[Bri]

He's having a terrific year maybe/likely one for the record books. LT is having a super year too.Do you think the Chargers would have been comparable to the Super Bowl Rams teams with Faulk and Warner both doing extremely well and up for MVP or do you think there "wouldn't be enough footballs to go around"?

Don't look now, but the Chargers are on pace to score about as many points as the 1999 Rams scored. The Rams scored 526 points in 1999. The Chargers have scored 425 points in 13 games this year, which extrapolates out to 523 points for the season.

LT2 is amazing

 

[Tau837]

I actually think Rivers is the perfect QB for the Chargers. I've watched the team through all the Brees years and this year with Rivers and although the line is better this year I think the Chargers are definitely better off long term with Rivers at the helm. He's just a better QB IMO. This isn't a slight to Brees because he's a good QB but I believe Rivers has the potential to be a very good QB (he's pretty good already).

Agreed. I think if Brees had stayed, Rivers would have beaten him out for the starting job. Many people didn't know it until they saw him this year, but he *is* better than Brees, and San Diego would have had the luxury of being more cautious with his return from injury, giving Rivers the inside track.

 

[T Love]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

It's not quite as lopsided as it looks since SD didn't get anything for Brees.

That not right. The Chargers DID get something for Brees. They got 4 years of service time as a starting QB from 2002 thru 2005. The last two years of that he did very well. He helped lead them to a 12-4 record in 2004 and the playoffs.

Why do people always say Brees was part of the trade. SD selected Brees with their own pick. The trade was Tomlinson (2001-1st Round), Tim Dwight, Tay Cody (2001-3rd Round), and Reche Caldwell (2002-2nd Round) for Vick. The other players provide no value to the trade and it is only lopsided because of the way LT was outplayed Vick since joining the nfl.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I think what is shows is Chargers mang. knew what they were doing when the traded the #1 overall pick to the Falcons (Vick) for what turned out to be LT & Brees.

One of the most lopsided trades in recent memory, IMO.

It's not quite as lopsided as it looks since SD didn't get anything for Brees.

That not right. The Chargers DID get something for Brees. They got 4 years of service time as a starting QB from 2002 thru 2005. The last two years of that he did very well. He helped lead them to a 12-4 record in 2004 and the playoffs.

Why do people always say Brees was part of the trade.

Because if the trade hadn't occurred, the Chargers would have taken Vick number one, in which case they would not have taken Brees at the top of round two, but the Falcons very well may have taken Brees there. So although Brees wasn't technically a part of the trade, the trade was the only reason he became a Charger (instead of possibly a Falcon).But you're right to point out that the trade did not directly involve Brees.

 

[Bri]

The trade was Tomlinson (2001-1st Round), Tim Dwight, Tay Cody (2001-3rd Round), and Reche Caldwell (2002-2nd Round) for Vick. The other players provide no value to the trade and it is only lopsided because of the way LT was outplayed Vick since joining the nfl.

I don't know what a coach should do with Vick and his lack of passing. That said, Atlanta's been pretty good too since Vick started. It's a win win trade IMO. Players that actually develop into franchise RBs and QBs are rare in any draft. I'm sure each team is thrilled they landed one. Some people make it like this was LT2 for Couch.

 

[Bri]

I actually think Rivers is the perfect QB for the Chargers. I've watched the team through all the Brees years and this year with Rivers and although the line is better this year I think the Chargers are definitely better off long term with Rivers at the helm. He's just a better QB IMO. This isn't a slight to Brees because he's a good QB but I believe Rivers has the potential to be a very good QB (he's pretty good already).

Agreed. I think if Brees had stayed, Rivers would have beaten him out for the starting job. Many people didn't know it until they saw him this year, but he *is* better than Brees, and San Diego would have had the luxury of being more cautious with his return from injury, giving Rivers the inside track.

I agree Rivers does seem like a great fit. I don't think Rivers is better. That seems like you're ignoring the monster season Brees is having like some SD homer might do. Rivers is relatively inexperienced so he could be but...I know ya got some reasons JWB so..."hit me"

 

[Tau837]

I actually think Rivers is the perfect QB for the Chargers. I've watched the team through all the Brees years and this year with Rivers and although the line is better this year I think the Chargers are definitely better off long term with Rivers at the helm. He's just a better QB IMO. This isn't a slight to Brees because he's a good QB but I believe Rivers has the potential to be a very good QB (he's pretty good already).

Agreed. I think if Brees had stayed, Rivers would have beaten him out for the starting job. Many people didn't know it until they saw him this year, but he *is* better than Brees, and San Diego would have had the luxury of being more cautious with his return from injury, giving Rivers the inside track.

I agree Rivers does seem like a great fit. I don't think Rivers is better. That seems like you're ignoring the monster season Brees is having like some SD homer might do. Rivers is relatively inexperienced so he could be but...I know ya got some reasons JWB so..."hit me"

I'm basing my statement on Rivers vs. Brees on a few things, in no particular order:First, Rivers is performing better than Brees did last year with largely the same cast. That is reasonably close to an apples to apples comparison.Second, while Brees has better numbers this year, he has also attempted almost 100 more passes... so the yardage and TD advantage is partly offset by that... although it is true that Brees has better completion percentage, ypa, and QB rating right now, though mostly by small margins (pretty good margin on ypa). I think Brees is having a better season, but by a smaller margin that most others probably think.Third, I believe Rivers has better talent/skills. Brees has an advantage in the mental part of the game right now simply due to game experience. Also, Brees is in his prime right now and Rivers isn't. Brees is probably at his peak, while Rivers still has plenty of untapped potential. Given the small difference between them now, to me that means Rivers is better.I realize I'm likely in the minority... just like when I was saying Rivers was better than Eli and Roethlisberger leading up to the 2004 draft.

 

[AsimoV]

Agreed. I think if Brees had stayed, Rivers would have beaten him out for the starting job. Many people didn't know it until they saw him this year, but he *is* better than Brees, and San Diego would have had the luxury of being more cautious with his return from injury, giving Rivers the inside track.

Well, in essence, Rivers did beat out Brees for the starting job. Brees wanted to stay in SD, they didn't want him, so he packed up and left. That's a completely understandable move... The Chargers did just spend what was for all intents and purposes the 1st pick on Rivers. Saying Rivers is better than Brees, however, is ridiculous. Without him on the Saints, they're under .500. Without Rivers on the Chargers, they're still playoffbound. Saying they'd be doing worse with Brees than Rivers is pure conjecture.

 

[phillzphan]

I'm basing my statement on Rivers vs. Brees on a few things, in no particular order:

First, Rivers is performing better than Brees did last year with largely the same cast. That is reasonably close to an apples to apples comparison.

definitely.

Second, while Brees has better numbers this year, he has also attempted almost 100 more passes... so the yardage and TD advantage is partly offset by that... although it is true that Brees has better completion percentage, ypa, and QB rating right now, though mostly by small margins (pretty good margin on ypa). I think Brees is having a better season, but by a smaller margin that most others probably think.

With no numbers, you hit on a good observation:Name/FP per attempt

1. Michael Vick 0.779

2. Donovan McNabb 0.753

3. Vince Young 0.667

---

4. Carson Palmer 0.621

5. Drew Brees 0.615

6. Peyton Manning 0.613

---

7. Philip Rivers 0.561

8. J.P. Losman 0.528

9. Tom Brady 0.517

10. Ben Roethlisberger 0.501

11.Rex Grossman 0.500

12. Eli Manning 0.499

13. Marc Bulger 0.494

14. Alex Smith 0.487

15. David Carr 0.487

Disregard very mobile QBs because their stats are skewed, and you have #2 Brees and #4 Rivers. It seems though that Rivers is on top of that 2nd tier whereas Brees is smack in the middle of the first tier.

Third, I believe Rivers has better talent/skills. Brees has an advantage in the mental part of the game right now simply due to game experience. Also, Brees is in his prime right now and Rivers isn't. Brees is probably at his peak, while Rivers still has plenty of untapped potential. Given the small difference between them now, to me that means Rivers is better.

I realize I'm likely in the minority... just like when I was saying Rivers was better than Eli and Roethlisberger leading up to the 2004 draft.

It does seem that Rivers is full of potential, but this is by far Brees' biggest season. This is his first year in NO. Why can't he get better too? After what Brees has done this year, I don't think that you can argue that many have a better skillset, including Rivers.I think that both are great, and both could even get better. Both excel where they are, but I think not only does Brees mean more to his team, he is putting up more stats. That is what we care about afterall right?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Agreed. I think if Brees had stayed, Rivers would have beaten him out for the starting job. Many people didn't know it until they saw him this year, but he *is* better than Brees, and San Diego would have had the luxury of being more cautious with his return from injury, giving Rivers the inside track.

Well, in essence, Rivers did beat out Brees for the starting job. Brees wanted to stay in SD, they didn't want him, so he packed up and left. That's a completely understandable move... The Chargers did just spend what was for all intents and purposes the 1st pick on Rivers. Saying Rivers is better than Brees, however, is ridiculous. Without him on the Saints, they're under .500. Without Rivers on the Chargers, they're still playoffbound. Saying they'd be doing worse with Brees than Rivers is pure conjecture.

Aren't the bolded assertions "conjecture" also?

 

[tommyGunZ]

After what Brees has done this year, I don't think that you can argue that many have a better skillset, including Rivers.

As someone who has watched almost every snap that Rivers and Brees have taken as a Charger, I certainly believe that Rivers' skill set is above and beyond Drew Brees'.Brees is having an unbelievable year, but as far as physical tools and accuracy, I'd take Rivers.

 

[Gr00vus]

I think the real questions are:

How bad of a coach was Haslett?

How bad of a QB is Brooks?

Are any of these comparisons really worthwhile since the Saints have like 43 new players on the squad this year and a new coaching staff?

 

[tommyGunZ]

By far the biggest point missed in this thread is that the Chargers were going to have to place the franchise tag on Drew to keep him, and pay him $10M this year. Instead, they used that money to lock up several young players to extensions, w/o missing a beat by allowing Rivers to take over. Plus, they'll get a 3rd rounder in the '07 draft as compensation for losing Brees.

So the choice was:

1) Keep Brees, pay him $10M, Rivers remains the backup;

2) Allow Brees to walk, use the $10M on extensions to lock up key youngsters, let Rivers take over, and pick up a 3rd rounder

I still think choice #2 was the no brainer.

 

[Mudcrab]

After what Brees has done this year, I don't think that you can argue that many have a better skillset, including Rivers.

As someone who has watched almost every snap that Rivers and Brees have taken as a Charger, I certainly believe that Rivers' skill set is above and beyond Drew Brees'.Brees is having an unbelievable year, but as far as physical tools and accuracy, I'd take Rivers.

Perhaps. But Brees has incredible pocket presence and awareness, as well as an uncanny ability to find the open receiver - moreso this year. Evidence of this is the low number of sacks he has taken - attributable to both the great OL performance and his own elusiveness - and the extent he has shared the ball around. Against the Cowboys he completed passes to 10 different receivers.

By far the biggest point missed in this thread is that the Chargers were going to have to place the franchise tag on Drew to keep him, and pay him $10M this year. Instead, they used that money to lock up several young players to extensions, w/o missing a beat by allowing Rivers to take over. Plus, they'll get a 3rd rounder in the '07 draft as compensation for losing Brees.

So the choice was:

1) Keep Brees, pay him $10M, Rivers remains the backup;

2) Allow Brees to walk, use the $10M on extensions to lock up key youngsters, let Rivers take over, and pick up a 3rd rounder

I still think choice #2 was the no brainer.

I agree with you here.

 

[Bri]

I actually think Rivers is the perfect QB for the Chargers. I've watched the team through all the Brees years and this year with Rivers and although the line is better this year I think the Chargers are definitely better off long term with Rivers at the helm. He's just a better QB IMO. This isn't a slight to Brees because he's a good QB but I believe Rivers has the potential to be a very good QB (he's pretty good already).

Agreed. I think if Brees had stayed, Rivers would have beaten him out for the starting job. Many people didn't know it until they saw him this year, but he *is* better than Brees, and San Diego would have had the luxury of being more cautious with his return from injury, giving Rivers the inside track.

I agree Rivers does seem like a great fit. I don't think Rivers is better. That seems like you're ignoring the monster season Brees is having like some SD homer might do. Rivers is relatively inexperienced so he could be but...I know ya got some reasons JWB so..."hit me"

I'm basing my statement on Rivers vs. Brees on a few things, in no particular order:First, Rivers is performing better than Brees did last year with largely the same cast. That is reasonably close to an apples to apples comparison.Second, while Brees has better numbers this year, he has also attempted almost 100 more passes... so the yardage and TD advantage is partly offset by that... although it is true that Brees has better completion percentage, ypa, and QB rating right now, though mostly by small margins (pretty good margin on ypa). I think Brees is having a better season, but by a smaller margin that most others probably think.Third, I believe Rivers has better talent/skills. Brees has an advantage in the mental part of the game right now simply due to game experience. Also, Brees is in his prime right now and Rivers isn't. Brees is probably at his peak, while Rivers still has plenty of untapped potential. Given the small difference between them now, to me that means Rivers is better.I realize I'm likely in the minority... just like when I was saying Rivers was better than Eli and Roethlisberger leading up to the 2004 draft.

Interesting. I don't agree but interesting just the same.For me, Brees has not only shocked me once with how much he improved but he just did it again this year. I mean I'd have never thought he had a chance at 5k yards. I'm confident SD fans likely think Rivers will never have a chance at 5k yards with LT getting the rock so much but ya still gotta appreciate how rare that is.I understand he might be Neil Lomax but just the same I'm impressed.