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What If The Commish Accidentally Breaks The Rules? (1 Viewer)

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the lone star

Footballguy
In one league, the Commish would set the clock for our draft and/or the length of the free agency period. There are express rules that govern how long each person has to pick, and how long the free agency period is. However, the Commish wasn't really aware of these rules and thought that he could just change them whenever he wanted and for the convenience of the league. There are also rules in place that govern how rules should be changed, and this procedure wasn't followed.

Now, nobody actually challenged these new rules, but in the event that they were challenged, then what do you think should have been done? Should it have reverted back to how it is in writing, or should the Commish's wishes have won out? Should the procedure for changing the rules have been strictly followed, or would it just be OK to hold an impromptu vote and see how many people are in favor for the new rules?

 
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dkp993

Footballguy
Always tough. The competitiveness of the league matters.  If it’s just a friendly have fun league being a stickler probably isn’t in order, if it’s a highly competitive league that a whole different thing.  For example, I’ve been running my main league since ‘99.  Last year in the championship game I made a small lineup mistake, this mistake actually worked against me and was not an advantage. I’m fairly certain had I taken it to the league a vote would’ve gone my way but I didn’t. Rules and integrity matter. I forfeited the championship game (I won with either lineup) and the $2k in the pot split difference.  

As the commissioner you’ve got to hold yourself to the highest standards and be consistent in the enforcement of the rules as they are written.  

 

Arodin

Footballguy
Lone Star must be the unluckiest fantasy football player in history.

I’ve played in dozens of leagues over several decades and commished many as well, and I can count on one hand the number of serious commissioner ethics issues I’ve encountered.  Seems like he can’t find a league where the commish isn’t up to something shady enough to warrant a message board analysis.

Poor guy.

 
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daveR

Footballguy
Anytime there is a rule that mandates anything, there must be a penalty attached.  In this case, the commish should be required to know & follow all the rules.  If he circumvents a rules, even unintentionally, he needs to be penalized.  There should never be a league in existence where the commish doesn't know the rules thoroughly.  That's his job!

 

wakelawyer

Footballguy
So in your latest made-up hypothetical the commish made a change for the convenience of the league as a whole and you're upset?  And nobody complained?  The answer is clear -- he should boot you from the league.  

I've been running leagues for about 35 years now and the one thing that I've learned is that you're in trouble if you keep yourself bound by the express terms of the rules rather than evolve in the best interests of the league.  One league has been around since 1991 and the rules provided that the USA Today was the official source of stats.  I modified that without a vote and we're still going strong despite my potential breach of the rules.  I think that the initial rules also provided that I was to leave a copy of the weekly updates (which was printed on a dot-matrix printer at the time) under the dorm room door of each owner.  That changed without a vote.  The same holds true for drafting dates/time limits.  Dates get moved if people aren't around and time limits get changed as people's lives and technology evolve and now that I have owners in other countries.  But we still get through it.  

 

elshagon

Footballguy
Why not tell us what the commish did instead of beating around the bush.  You state the commish changed the rules without naming any rules that we're changed.

 

Jello_Biafra

Footballguy
In one league, the Commish would set the clock for our draft and/or the length of the free agency period. There are express rules that govern how long each person has to pick, and how long the free agency period is. However, the Commish wasn't really aware of these rules and thought that he could just change them whenever he wanted and for the convenience of the league. There are also rules in place that govern how rules should be changed, and this procedure wasn't followed.

Now, nobody actually challenged these new rules, but in the event that they were challenged, then what do you think should have been done? Should it have reverted back to how it is in writing, or should the Commish's wishes have won out? Should the procedure for changing the rules have been strictly followed, or would it just be OK to hold an impromptu vote and see how many people are in favor for the new rules?
I have an opening in a devy league. I'm giving a $50 discount. Would you like to join and not deal with incompetent commishes? I think you'd be a memorable addition.

 

voiceofunreason

Footballguy
Lone Star must be the unluckiest fantasy football player in history.

I’ve played in dozens of leagues over several decades and commished many as well, and I can count on one hand the number of serious commissioner ethics issues I’ve encountered.  Seems like he can’t find a league where the commish isn’t up to something shady enough to warrant a message board analysis.

Poor guy.
And there's always a couple guys at the start giving thought out responses like it's his first post. That's my favorite part of the morning.

 

jmo87usc

Footballguy
Lonestar is the philosopher of fantasy football.  I think these are all his famous quotes.

"I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think." 

"I know that I am intelligent, because I know that I know nothing."

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."

"Can the commissioner be commissioned?" 

 

elshagon

Footballguy
How come my recipe was deleted? 

That was the most useful thing in this thread.
Reading a Lone Star thread is a recipe for disaster.  We all know he plays in a one team league so all his complaints about rules and commissioners are actually him complaining about himself.

 

dkp993

Footballguy
voiceofunreason said:
And there's always a couple guys at the start giving thought out responses like it's his first post. That's my favorite part of the morning.
Yeah apparently I was not in on the "Lone Star History" bit.  Glad I could add to your morning....

 
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the lone star

Footballguy
So in your latest made-up hypothetical the commish made a change for the convenience of the league as a whole and you're upset?  And nobody complained?  The answer is clear -- he should boot you from the league.  

I've been running leagues for about 35 years now and the one thing that I've learned is that you're in trouble if you keep yourself bound by the express terms of the rules rather than evolve in the best interests of the league.  One league has been around since 1991 and the rules provided that the USA Today was the official source of stats.  I modified that without a vote and we're still going strong despite my potential breach of the rules.  I think that the initial rules also provided that I was to leave a copy of the weekly updates (which was printed on a dot-matrix printer at the time) under the dorm room door of each owner.  That changed without a vote.  The same holds true for drafting dates/time limits.  Dates get moved if people aren't around and time limits get changed as people's lives and technology evolve and now that I have owners in other countries.  But we still get through it.  
Might want to re-read what I wrote then if you think that.

But thanks for your answer. Good to know that you've gone through similar situations as I have. 

Was just curious, that's all.

 

the lone star

Footballguy
Mr. Irrelevant said:
:lmao:

I mean, I actually enjoy debates about hypothetical situations. Hypotheticals are good! They make you defend your positions on things.

But passing a bunch of hypothetical situations off as real-life chapter and verse like you're that girl answering Ben Stein's roll call in Ferris Bueller seems ... a little odd.
Well, I feel like a lot of this stuff happens in other leagues, just doesn't get thought about too often. That's why I like questioning it. Tries to make you think about potential pitfalls and issues that you may have never foreseen.

 

the lone star

Footballguy
Why not tell us what the commish did instead of beating around the bush.  You state the commish changed the rules without naming any rules that we're changed.
"There are express rules that govern how long each person has to pick, and how long the free agency period is."

So the rules basically just say Free agency starts on the Xth week after the draft, and last for Y amount of weeks. The league's rookie draft will then be held on week Z, and last for AA weeks, with BB minutes/hours per pick.

 

the lone star

Footballguy
Always tough. The competitiveness of the league matters.  If it’s just a friendly have fun league being a stickler probably isn’t in order, if it’s a highly competitive league that a whole different thing.  For example, I’ve been running my main league since ‘99.  Last year in the championship game I made a small lineup mistake, this mistake actually worked against me and was not an advantage. I’m fairly certain had I taken it to the league a vote would’ve gone my way but I didn’t. Rules and integrity matter. I forfeited the championship game (I won with either lineup) and the $2k in the pot split difference.  

As the commissioner you’ve got to hold yourself to the highest standards and be consistent in the enforcement of the rules as they are written.  
I agree, and thank you for your response. I agree, since these rules were kinda small and were out of convenience, I figured it best to not be a stickler. But I do subscribe to the "Slippery Slope" theory, but probably not worth it to mention it to him. At least not in writing. Maybe in person after some beers, food, and laughs.

 

the lone star

Footballguy
Anytime there is a rule that mandates anything, there must be a penalty attached.  In this case, the commish should be required to know & follow all the rules.  If he circumvents a rules, even unintentionally, he needs to be penalized.  There should never be a league in existence where the commish doesn't know the rules thoroughly.  That's his job!
It's hard to always create a penalty though. Like here, ionno if a penalty is the right course of action. If it was more severe, then I might be down with that, but I think the more appropriate course of action to take is to create a new position and put that person in charge of off-season duties. Heck, maybe even make it a 2-3 person committee. 

 

wakelawyer

Footballguy
Might want to re-read what I wrote then if you think that.

But thanks for your answer. Good to know that you've gone through similar situations as I have. 

Was just curious, that's all.
My reading skills are still intact.  But you've wasted enough of my time with this diversion.  Best of luck.  But I'll wait for the:

"I joined a league and two years later I read the rules and saw that the commish had put in a rule that he could sleep with my girlfriend.  I'm not sure if that rule was always there but I think that he added it without a vote.  So, should I let him sleep with my girlfriend?"

 

32 Counter Pass

Footballguy
Anytime there is a rule that mandates anything, there must be a penalty attached.  In this case, the commish should be required to know & follow all the rules.  If he circumvents a rules, even unintentionally, he needs to be penalized.  There should never be a league in existence where the commish doesn't know the rules thoroughly.  That's his job!
This is a little harsh for this "job." How much compensation does being a commissioner pay? Keep things in context. If this is a friends/family league and an honest mistake was made it should be resolved without imposing penalties. Same with leagues in which people are not compensated for the job of commissioner.  

 

the lone star

Footballguy
My reading skills are still intact.  But you've wasted enough of my time with this diversion.  Best of luck.  But I'll wait for the:

"I joined a league and two years later I read the rules and saw that the commish had put in a rule that he could sleep with my girlfriend.  I'm not sure if that rule was always there but I think that he added it without a vote.  So, should I let him sleep with my girlfriend?"
Best of luck to you too.

 

FBG Moderator

FBG Moderator
Staff member
How come my recipe was deleted? 

That was the most useful thing in this thread.
Because intentionally trying to ruin a thread posting stuff like that is lame. Don't do it. 

If you see a thread that's over the line, please report it. Thanks.

 
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Jello_Biafra

Footballguy
Because intentionally trying to ruin a thread posting stuff like that is lame. Don't do it. 

If you see a thread that's over the line, please report it. Thanks.
No offense, but you know what is lame? Having lonestar and his aliases start pointless threads. He did the same thing at DLF and he was banned. If you guys aren't going to do something about it, then we should be allowed to post useless garbage in a useless garbage thread.

 

FBG Moderator

FBG Moderator
Staff member
No offense, but you know what is lame? Having lonestar and his aliases start pointless threads. He did the same thing at DLF and he was banned. If you guys aren't going to do something about it, then we should be allowed to post useless garbage in a useless garbage thread.
Please report threads you see that are offensive or over the line. 

Looks like he has 3 threads he's started in the first 3 pages of this forum. If you see something posted that's over the line and we should "do something about it", please report. 

In the meantime, let's please get back to football. Thanks. 

 
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niagararapids

Footballguy
Please report threads you see that are offensive or over the line. 

Looks like he has 3 threads he's started in the first 3 pages of this forum. If you see something posted that's over the line and we should "do something about it", please report. 

In the meantime, let's please get back to football. Thanks. 
Hello Moderator,

I have now reported this thread (especially with the useless bumps that "the lone star" seems to do to get all of his useless threads on the front page).

I also wrote a note to both @Joe Bryant and @David Dodds about this user explaining how these threads that he starts are taking away from real discussion about NFL Draft prospects for Dynasty leagues which is what this community wants with less than 2 weeks until the draft.

I was honest with them and let them know I will be pulling my subscription and getting a bunch of my friends to pull theirs as well if this situation is not taken care of.

Their response was to tell me to report the threads since that is the only way things are handled (even though I thought an e-mail to them would be even better as I was reporting my thoughts directly to the owners of this site...but I am thinking it wasn't valued for some reason).

So here I am reporting this thread and asking you to PLEASE remove this user from the boards!

 

FBG Moderator

FBG Moderator
Staff member
Hello Moderator,

I have now reported this thread (especially with the useless bumps that "the lone star" seems to do to get all of his useless threads on the front page).

I also wrote a note to both @Joe Bryant and @David Dodds about this user explaining how these threads that he starts are taking away from real discussion about NFL Draft prospects for Dynasty leagues which is what this community wants with less than 2 weeks until the draft.

I was honest with them and let them know I will be pulling my subscription and getting a bunch of my friends to pull theirs as well if this situation is not taken care of.

Their response was to tell me to report the threads since that is the only way things are handled (even though I thought an e-mail to them would be even better as I was reporting my thoughts directly to the owners of this site...but I am thinking it wasn't valued for some reason).

So here I am reporting this thread and asking you to PLEASE remove this user from the boards!
Thanks. To be clear, you want this thread removed because you don't like the question he asked? Or do you think it's not a real question? 

@dkp993 and @daveR I thought answered his actual question. 

Or are you saying something different? Thanks. 

 

niagararapids

Footballguy
Thanks. To be clear, you want this thread removed because you don't like the question he asked? Or do you think it's not a real question? 

@dkp993 and @daveR I thought answered his actual question. 

Or are you saying something different? Thanks. 
To be EXTRA CLEAR...

I want "the lone star" banned FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Then all of his ridiculous threads to be removed at this point.

What I am saying is that he is posting hypothetical nonsense and bumping his threads to the top and cluttering the boards and taking away from good meaningful discussion which is what I hope you want this community to be about.

I now sent a follow up e-mail to your owners @Joe Bryant and @David Dodds letting them know my feelings. Why is your company (and you with this follow up question) beating around the bush and not handling an issue that seems to be upsetting a majority of your community.

You are about to lose PAYING MEMBERS over this! Please do something!

 
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Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
To be EXTRA CLEAR...

I want "the lone star" banned FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Then all of his ridiculous threads to be removed at this point.

What I am saying is that he is posting hypothetical nonsense and bumping his threads to the top and cluttering the boards and taking away from good meaningful discussion which is what I hope you want this community to be about.

I now sent a follow up e-mail to your owners @Joe Bryant and @David Dodds letting them know my feelings. Why is your company (and you with this follow up question) beating around the bush and not handling an issue that seems to be upsetting a majority of your community.

You are about to lose PAYING MEMBERS over this! Please do something!
I'm sorry, but we don't just ban posters because another poster wants them banned. 

We try really hard to have a good community. One that focuses on Football and one that keeps things cool.

The best way we know how to do that is to have users report posts that are offensive or over the line. 

For a poster to be suspended or banned, they have to post something offensive or over the line.

Now maybe he's just fishing me, but I read this post like @dkp993 and @daveR did (two longtime excellent posters) did as a real question. We're not going to ban a poster for asking a question like that. 

Quickly looking at the forum, it looks like he has started 3 threads since March 31. That's not something we'll ban someone for.

We definitely do not want to have offensive or over the line posts. And we need them called out. And the report button is by far the best the way to do that so we can see them. 

And if something is posted that's offensive or over the line, then we will suspend the poster. 

In the meantime, the Draft is almost here. Lots of Football to talk about. 

Thanks. 

 
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niagararapids

Footballguy
I'm sorry, but we don't just ban posters because another poster wants them banned. 

We try really hard to have a good community. One that focuses on Football and one that keeps things cool.

The best way we know how to do that is to have users report posts that are offensive or over the line. 

For a poster to be suspended or banned, they have to post something offensive or over the line.

Now maybe he's just fishing me, but I read this post like @dkp993 and @daveR did (two longtime excellent posters) did as a real question. We're not going to ban a poster for asking a question like that. 

Quickly looking at the forum, it looks like he has started 3 threads since March 31. That's not something we'll ban someone for.

We definitely do not want to have offensive or over the line posts. And we need them called out. And the report button is by far the best the way to do that so we can see them. 

And if something is posted that's offensive or over the line, then we will suspend the poster. 

In the meantime, the Draft is almost here. Lots of Football to talk about. 

Thanks. 
Thanks for at least coming in here to see what is going on.

Unfortunately I do think this person is fishing you. And here is why I reacted and feel this way...

Because this user went and changed the title of this thread to include "chili tasting" which I now see has been edited back by the FBG Moderator. A serious user would not be doing that when there is so much contention in this thread.

Looking at the comments from @Jello_Biafra and @Dr. Dan and @Arodin and @Dr. Octopus and @need2know and @wakelawyer and @voiceofunreason and @Twenty-Four Eighty-Four and @jmo87usc and @jtd13 and @Mr. Irrelevant and @elshagon it should be pretty clear to you by now that your community (more than just a single poster) knows that this user is a spammer!

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Thanks for at least coming in here to see what is going on.

Unfortunately I do think this person is fishing you. And here is why I reacted and feel this way...

Because this user went and changed the title of this thread to include "chili tasting" which I now see has been edited back by the FBG Moderator. A serious user would not be doing that when there is so much contention in this thread.

Looking at the comments from @Jello_Biafra and @Dr. Dan and @Arodin and @Dr. Octopus and @need2know and @wakelawyer and @voiceofunreason and @Twenty-Four Eighty-Four and @jmo87usc and @jtd13 and @Mr. Irrelevant and @elshagon it should be pretty clear to you by now that your community (more than just a single poster) knows that this user is a spammer!
We'll keep an eye out there. Thanks. 

 

the lone star

Footballguy
Hello Moderator,

I have now reported this thread (especially with the useless bumps that "the lone star" seems to do to get all of his useless threads on the front page).

I also wrote a note to both @Joe Bryant and @David Dodds about this user explaining how these threads that he starts are taking away from real discussion about NFL Draft prospects for Dynasty leagues which is what this community wants with less than 2 weeks until the draft.

I was honest with them and let them know I will be pulling my subscription and getting a bunch of my friends to pull theirs as well if this situation is not taken care of.

Their response was to tell me to report the threads since that is the only way things are handled (even though I thought an e-mail to them would be even better as I was reporting my thoughts directly to the owners of this site...but I am thinking it wasn't valued for some reason).

So here I am reporting this thread and asking you to PLEASE remove this user from the boards!
I am very sorry if I upset you. Just so you know, I am available via PM and can talk about things more directly there if you would like. Personally, that's how I like to go about things like this, but I do understand why you would feel more comfortable reporting to a mod.

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
I am very sorry if I upset you. Just so you know, I am available via PM and can talk about things more directly there if you would like. Personally, that's how I like to go about things like this, but I do understand why you would feel more comfortable reporting to a mod.
Cool. Take it to PM from here if you guys want to keep discussing it. For now, let's keep it to Football. Thanks.

 
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