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What Is a 'Livable Wage'? A Poll. (2 Viewers)

Should the Living Wage definition, in your opinion, include saving for college?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 22.4%

  • No

    Votes: 128 77.6%
  • Total voters
    165
mr roboto

mr roboto

Footballguy
The teacher thread got me thinking - do teachers make a livable wage? Then I got to thinking, what is a livable wage? Is it for just the wage earner? Is it for a family of four, 2 cars, a mortgage, vacations and college savings?

DEFINITION of LIVABLE WAGE (Investopedia)

A theoretical wage level that allows the earner to afford adequate shelter, food and the other necessities of life. The living wage should be substantial enough to ensure that no more than 30% of it needs to be spent on housing. The goal of the living wage is to allow employees to earn enough income for a satisfactory standard of living.
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The first 2 questions (Livable Wage for single person and family of 4 in your area) should include rent/mortgage, gas, food, utilities, car maintanence and repair (if your area would require a car to get to and from work) but NO retirement savings or college funding. It SHOULD include health care.

The last 2 questions ask if, in your opinion, a livable wage definition should include retirement (whether single or family) or college savings (if kids in the home).

 
I'm think a liveable wage would be closer to 30K than 20K. But I managed on 27K about 5 years ago and was able to save a bit (not much). That was with high student loan payments screwing my numbers up but no health insurance.

It was very much a tightrope, but probaly 30% of my take home went to student loans. So I'd imagine without those it would have been pretty easy even with insurance.

 
mr roboto said:
The teacher thread got me thinking - do teachers make a livable wage? Then I got to thinking, what is a livable wage? Is it for just the wage earner? Is it for a family of four, 2 cars, a mortgage, vacations and college savings?

DEFINITION of LIVABLE WAGE (Investopedia)

A theoretical wage level that allows the earner to afford adequate shelter, food and the other necessities of life. The living wage should be substantial enough to ensure that no more than 30% of it needs to be spent on housing. The goal of the living wage is to allow employees to earn enough income for a satisfactory standard of living.
Click to expand...
The first 2 questions (Livable Wage for single person and family of 4 in your area) should include rent/mortgage, gas, food, utilities, car maintanence and repair (if your area would require a car to get to and from work) but NO retirement savings or college funding. It SHOULD include health care.

The last 2 questions ask if, in your opinion, a livable wage definition should include retirement (whether single or family) or college savings (if kids in the home).
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Is it gross or net wages, with regard to taxes? And, are we allowed to take into account student loan repayments? A livable wage is going to fluctuate based on each person's circumstances.

 
I'm not sure at what level a 'livable wage' should be set, but I don't think it should include any type of savings. This isn't a 'livable now and for the future wage'. It's what you need right now to live, tomorrow be damned.

 
Student loans - do not include.

Govt assistance - only factor in incentives available for tax breaks - no SNAP, welfare etc

Net take home wages, after withholding, do not factor refund

 
Black Box said:
I'm not sure at what level a 'livable wage' should be set, but I don't think it should include any type of savings. This isn't a 'livable now and for the future wage'. It's what you need right now to live, tomorrow be damned.
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Only savings that should be factored in our savings necessary for maintenance of vehicles home etc. Basically any amount of money you would have to spend in one chunk in order to continue to get to work or live at your home
 
Health care is really the only think pushing this over 10K for me. 10 to 19 is my answer.

I cannot fathom anyone thinking yes should be the answer to question 4.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
you should at least have a question asking what area of the country people live in. these results will be worthless.
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Was about to post this. Cost of living differs vastly. In CA you have to make a decent amount just to get by, and not have to have roommates or live with your parents. Crazy.

 
mr roboto said:
GDogg said:
Rove! said:
single guy could live on about 1/4 the salary of a married guy....
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Agreed.
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no, not really. There are efficiencies in living as a family such as reduced marginal cost of heating cooling electricity transportation etc.
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There are larger costs in living as a family, such as child care (either in care paid for or a reduction in salary for a parent staying at home), food, rent and larger house for heating, cooling, electricity, etc. My utilities more than tripled when we got a larger house and two kids that eventually came along with it.

 
GDogg said:
mr roboto said:
GDogg said:
Rove! said:
single guy could live on about 1/4 the salary of a married guy....
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Click to expand...
no, not really. There are efficiencies in living as a family such as reduced marginal cost of heating cooling electricity transportation etc.
Click to expand...
There are larger costs in living as a family, such as child care (either in care paid for or a reduction in salary for a parent staying at home), food, rent and larger house for heating, cooling, electricity, etc. My utilities more than tripled when we got a larger house and two kids that eventually came along with it.
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You can have a family of 4 in a 1,000 sq ft ranch home. I doubt that's 3-4x what a 600 sq ft appt costs to heat and cool.
 
mr roboto said:
GDogg said:
mr roboto said:
GDogg said:
Rove! said:
single guy could live on about 1/4 the salary of a married guy....
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Click to expand...
no, not really. There are efficiencies in living as a family such as reduced marginal cost of heating cooling electricity transportation etc.
Click to expand...
There are larger costs in living as a family, such as child care (either in care paid for or a reduction in salary for a parent staying at home), food, rent and larger house for heating, cooling, electricity, etc. My utilities more than tripled when we got a larger house and two kids that eventually came along with it.
Click to expand...
You can have a family of 4 in a 1,000 sq ft ranch home. I doubt that's 3-4x what a 600 sq ft appt costs to heat and cool.
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Maybe, but what are we talking about in terms of "area" we live in. The neighborhood of the city? The city, itself? 100 mile radius of the city?

 
Here in Charlotte the living wage for a single person is 9.00 an hour allegedly. Not sure how that can be right when the average rental is 850.00 a month though.

 
When I say your area, I don't mean your subdivision or your specific neighborhood within the city. What I mean is your close geographic vicinity. Therefore, the question isn't what does it take to live in your specific subdivision or neighborhood, but rather if somebody wanted to participate in society in your immediate geographic area what would the minimum amount of money they need be in order to participate in your area.

 
For example: I live in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago. It's a middle to upper middle-class area within the metro. Within 5 miles of my home, their houses that are $5 million, $500,000, $200,000, and apartments that Rent for one thousand dollars a month.

A single person could share a two bedroom, $1000 apartment with a roommate. A family of four could rent $1500 per month single-family home. Both of these options would place these people within the same general market area, as those that are living in homes that are over $500,000.

 
Black Box said:
I'm not sure at what level a 'livable wage' should be set, but I don't think it should include any type of savings. This isn't a 'livable now and for the future wage'. It's what you need right now to live, tomorrow be damned.
Click to expand...
loooppjmmrfdzsxc...Lknbfdxkkk vggggb uiiii

 
NCCommish said:
Here in Charlotte the living wage for a single person is 9.00 an hour allegedly. Not sure how that can be right when the average rental is 850.00 a month though.
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Wouldn't the average rental include larger (more expensive) rentals that a single person wouldn't need?

Also, I would think that livable or adequate could be below average.

 
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Bucky86 said:
Los Angeles and 30k wouldn't be enough. Gas would be enough to eat any money left over.
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Meh. When I was just starting out here in LA, I was making CA minimum wage (50hrs/week, though, came out to like $425/wk), for 9 months a year and pulling near the low end of unemployment on the other 3. Had a 1 bedroom apt. with no roommates and managed to scrape by. Didn't have a car loan or student loan debt, though, and had a mileage allowance from the job; but I think 30k is still probably plenty livable for a single dude if he used it right.

 
Sarnoff said:
Bucky86 said:
Los Angeles and 30k wouldn't be enough. Gas would be enough to eat any money left over.
Click to expand...
Meh. When I was just starting out here in LA, I was making CA minimum wage (50hrs/week, though, came out to like $425/wk), for 9 months a year and pulling near the low end of unemployment on the other 3. Had a 1 bedroom apt. with no roommates and managed to scrape by. Didn't have a car loan or student loan debt, though, and had a mileage allowance from the job; but I think 30k is still probably plenty livable for a single dude if he used it right.
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And a single accident from living in the streets.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Sarnoff said:
Bucky86 said:
Los Angeles and 30k wouldn't be enough. Gas would be enough to eat any money left over.
Click to expand...
Meh. When I was just starting out here in LA, I was making CA minimum wage (50hrs/week, though, came out to like $425/wk), for 9 months a year and pulling near the low end of unemployment on the other 3. Had a 1 bedroom apt. with no roommates and managed to scrape by. Didn't have a car loan or student loan debt, though, and had a mileage allowance from the job; but I think 30k is still probably plenty livable for a single dude if he used it right.
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And a single accident from living in the streets.
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So what? Everyone who's ever driven through Beverly Hills risks hitting some trust-fund baby and being on the hook for a billion-dollar lawsuit. We're all one accident away from living on the streets.

 
Bucky86 said:
Sarnoff said:
Bucky86 said:
Los Angeles and 30k wouldn't be enough. Gas would be enough to eat any money left over.
Click to expand...
Meh. When I was just starting out here in LA, I was making CA minimum wage (50hrs/week, though, came out to like $425/wk), for 9 months a year and pulling near the low end of unemployment on the other 3. Had a 1 bedroom apt. with no roommates and managed to scrape by. Didn't have a car loan or student loan debt, though, and had a mileage allowance from the job; but I think 30k is still probably plenty livable for a single dude if he used it right.
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When was this? What part of LA did you live in? What did the mileage allowance get you?
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A bit over a decade ago. Lived in Sherman Oaks, worked in Studio City, and got 42.5 cents per mile from my employer for my driving around town (I was an office PA).

If someone's willing to live cheap and doesn't have debt, a livable wage for a single person living alone doesn't have to be that high.

 
Does liveable wage reflect on owning/renting a home? I could live much cheaper renting than owning my own place.

 
I am a homeowner who lives alone in an expensive area of East Coast. I honestly think I could survive on $45,000 a year but I think $60,000 is more reasonable. Granted, I could have roommates/rent and live farther from work where it costs less to live. I also know I could live for a lot less if I were to be in the Midwest.

 
Bucky86 said:
Los Angeles and 30k wouldn't be enough. Gas would be enough to eat any money left over.
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Yea but different people have different standards for living. I couldn't do it for 30K, maybe not even in 60K in LA. But there are others who are willing to live in a 5 person apartment or a parents basement and not own a car.

 
I got by on a little over 25k for a couple years in my mid 20s with a newborn. We lived in Michigan where the cost of living wasn't expensive at all. Mortgage was roughly $625 a month for a decent little place. I don't feel like I struggled to make a living during that timeframe. Sure there were a lot of things we just didn't do. We hardly ever ate out, took vacations, went to movies/shows. I still had money to buy a big screen TV, some video games and have a gym membership.

My family and I have grown since then and I don't think there is any way I could survive on 25K a year. I realize I was lucky during those years and had no major medical bills or unexpected expenses. I wasn't putting anything away for savings either.

My opinion is that 25K is enough for a livable wage in a low income area pending any significant financial issues. My problem is that I don't think the average American is very good at budgeting and/or understanding needs vs wants. Nothing bothers me more than standing behind someone in line at the supermarket who is wearing fancy clothes, with their nails and hair done, talking on the latest smart phone but paying with food stamps.

 
Sarnoff said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Sarnoff said:
Bucky86 said:
Los Angeles and 30k wouldn't be enough. Gas would be enough to eat any money left over.
Click to expand...
Meh. When I was just starting out here in LA, I was making CA minimum wage (50hrs/week, though, came out to like $425/wk), for 9 months a year and pulling near the low end of unemployment on the other 3. Had a 1 bedroom apt. with no roommates and managed to scrape by. Didn't have a car loan or student loan debt, though, and had a mileage allowance from the job; but I think 30k is still probably plenty livable for a single dude if he used it right.
Click to expand...
And a single accident from living in the streets.
Click to expand...
So what? Everyone who's ever driven through Beverly Hills risks hitting some trust-fund baby and being on the hook for a billion-dollar lawsuit. We're all one accident away from living on the streets.
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not true. im simply talking about your own bills and basic sickness or injury. not a ####### lawsuit.

 
17seconds said:
A very average 2BR apartment is $1,600/mo here, so if that is 30% of your gross you need to make $65K
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Better than the up north in the bay area. A studio in a not the ####tiest area and definitely not the best area is $1200/mo. Crazy.

 
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