ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/1529174417087004677
Fun launching point for a discussion. Go!
Fun launching point for a discussion. Go!
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
What is something about the NFL most people believe to be true that you don’t think is true? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ignatiusjreilly
- Start date
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
That it's the no fun league. I laugh at them on a constant basis.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
"The combine is mostly about medical evaluations. Really, almost all our grades are based on what we see on the tape. The height that a prospect jumps in his underpants might be a tie breaker if two prospects are completely tied in all other ways but we don't put nearly the emphasis on combine scores as we do how they play football." ~ Or some version of this.
It just seems like BS to me. If picks were based "mostly" on what was on the tape then David Bell(WR) goes WAY earlier in a draft where all WR's are going early. And Isaiah Likely(TE) gets drafted earlier. And Isaiah Spiller(RB) goes earlier. And it goes on, and on, and on, just like every year. You can say, "Well once they put the pads on they have every chance to win a spot on the roster and earn playing time" but is every guy drafted at the bottom of day 3 of the draft given the same time to "earn playing time" as the bust taken at the bottom of the first round? We all know the answer to that.
If a lineman completely mis-represents his size(especially if he dominated a very small conference) then OK, I get why he drops. But a lot of these prospects weren't successful at the college level because they ran past everybody. There have been possession receivers as long as there has been an NFL. It just kind of makes you wonder if Steve Largeant would even be given a chance as an undrafted player or not. He was 5'10"/187lb and ran a 4.7 coming out of college. What about Todd Christensen? Arian Foster?
Some guys can just play football when the ball is snapped. I'd love it if the rosters were just a little bigger so we could see those guys make it on the field more. In fact, I'd rather see a slow guy make an athletic catch or out muscle a DB for the football in the end-zone more than watching John Ross run around the field REALLY REALLY fast but not really play much football. And I know this means a lot to folks in the Shark Pool, so YES I do know he played a little bit of CB when he was 19yo. That really proved to be clutch in the career of John Ross.
It just seems like BS to me. If picks were based "mostly" on what was on the tape then David Bell(WR) goes WAY earlier in a draft where all WR's are going early. And Isaiah Likely(TE) gets drafted earlier. And Isaiah Spiller(RB) goes earlier. And it goes on, and on, and on, just like every year. You can say, "Well once they put the pads on they have every chance to win a spot on the roster and earn playing time" but is every guy drafted at the bottom of day 3 of the draft given the same time to "earn playing time" as the bust taken at the bottom of the first round? We all know the answer to that.
If a lineman completely mis-represents his size(especially if he dominated a very small conference) then OK, I get why he drops. But a lot of these prospects weren't successful at the college level because they ran past everybody. There have been possession receivers as long as there has been an NFL. It just kind of makes you wonder if Steve Largeant would even be given a chance as an undrafted player or not. He was 5'10"/187lb and ran a 4.7 coming out of college. What about Todd Christensen? Arian Foster?
Some guys can just play football when the ball is snapped. I'd love it if the rosters were just a little bigger so we could see those guys make it on the field more. In fact, I'd rather see a slow guy make an athletic catch or out muscle a DB for the football in the end-zone more than watching John Ross run around the field REALLY REALLY fast but not really play much football. And I know this means a lot to folks in the Shark Pool, so YES I do know he played a little bit of CB when he was 19yo. That really proved to be clutch in the career of John Ross.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Me and most of the people in my league don't believe that the Chargers actually moved to LA. We refer to them as San Diego.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Wake me when Franco Harris enters the chat.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That NFL stands for “Not For Long”. It actually stands for “National Football League”.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Most fans seem to believe they have a better knowledge and understanding than the professional coaching staff has as to which plays should be called, which players should be in the game, which formations should be used, when timeouts should be taken and the like. I blame Madden for this.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
That the games are all fixed, when in reality only about half of them are.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Not that Ive seen, but it logically doesnt make sense to me. They arent taking grueling bus rides across the country. A cursory look tells me the Rams traveled the 4th most miles last year. All 4 NFC North teams will almost always be in the 20s simply because of the location of conference teams. They arent exactly piling up titles.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
That's funny, I was going to post the exact opposite. I think owners are all hypercompetitive, and go to sleep each night picturing themselves hoisting the Lombardi Trophy. The reason they don't is because of a lack of competence (and the fact that only one can win every year), not because they don't want to.
I think a lot of them care more about revenue.
The thought popped in my head when I made it into Jerry Jones suite a little before the end of a game in 2009. That was the first year opening their new stadium and the Chargers ended up beating them in a close game. I was actually a bit tense thinking Jerry was about to get irate but nothing of the sort. Pleasant as could be and at one point while I was sitting at his bar ordering a drink I saw him in a corner happily smashing a hot dog and though to myself when I get home and check scores I bet I'm going to be more sore over some fantasy losses today then he is over losing this game. I mentioned this to a friend I was with and he just said something to extent of Jerry just had a highly productive day financially in his beautiful new stadium, nothing but all good on his end.
And fwiw I think Jerry does care about winning but I just think a lot of owners are more passionate about their bottom line then trying to hoist the Lombardi. I mean they all want to win, I just think it's not the primary focus for a lot of them.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
My buddy has season tickets to the Dolphins. Every year I get to pick one game and go with him. I find it an enjoyable experience, but definitely not something I would want to do 8-9 times a year
The overall experience can be enjoyable if it's a good game and the crowd is fired up......but the actual experience of watching the game is still terrible. So many TV stoppages and really very little actual play time compared to the overall time of being there. It becomes really blah at times.
The actual viewing of the game is much better at home.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I think most fans think that the "best" team always wins, and we can therefore settle the issue of who the "best" team is by looking at post hoc on-the-field results.
Also, most fans think that particular draft picks are either right or wrong, and that teams that make good picks are wise and intelligent while teams that make bad picks are stupid and incompetent.
Really, pretty much everything about the NFL involves a boatload of incomplete/imperfect information and outright randomness. I'm thrilled that the Bills have Josh Allen at QB, but they could have ended up with Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield just as easily. Their current success has as much to do with weird decision-making by the Giants and Broncos as it does their own scouting department and FO. And games are won and lost by more-or-less random chance all the time. The Bills snapped their playoff drought in 2017 because one dude in the Ravens secondary happened to be about 1/4" too short to tip that pass to Tyler Boyd -- if that guy had eaten more vegetables as kid, the drought would have lived to the ripe old age of 19. I could go on and on about how the ebbs and flows of luck have affected my own team, and I'm sure everybody here can fill in a bunch of examples involving theirs.
Also, most fans think that particular draft picks are either right or wrong, and that teams that make good picks are wise and intelligent while teams that make bad picks are stupid and incompetent.
Really, pretty much everything about the NFL involves a boatload of incomplete/imperfect information and outright randomness. I'm thrilled that the Bills have Josh Allen at QB, but they could have ended up with Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield just as easily. Their current success has as much to do with weird decision-making by the Giants and Broncos as it does their own scouting department and FO. And games are won and lost by more-or-less random chance all the time. The Bills snapped their playoff drought in 2017 because one dude in the Ravens secondary happened to be about 1/4" too short to tip that pass to Tyler Boyd -- if that guy had eaten more vegetables as kid, the drought would have lived to the ripe old age of 19. I could go on and on about how the ebbs and flows of luck have affected my own team, and I'm sure everybody here can fill in a bunch of examples involving theirs.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yes, and in the sport that has the fewest games.
People don't fully appreciate the (lack of) significance of small sample sizes
Moonlight
Footballguy
True. Also, when the talking heads come into management they do not seem to do very well. I'm thinking of guys like Mayock, Millen, Jerry Coleman in baseball.
But there also times when fans particularly fantasy football players have better insights about player efficiency and use. Perhaps a little less now with more teams using analytics.
Regardless though there are/have been some really questionable coaches and GMs.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
That the majority of players in the league are clean and not regularly taking notable amounts of PED's.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
John Lynch has been pretty good. I feel like there was another one, but can't think of him right now
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
This, and I include college football as well as games are way too long.
I live between Ann Arbor and Detroit 20 minutes to Ann Arbor, about 30 to Detroit.
We have a bunch of friends that tailgate for both. We drive and tailgate with them for Lion and Michigan games and enjoy all the hoopla. Then when they go in to the games we leave and go home and watch it on TV or to a local pub by our home.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
This is getting close to the, "But they have so much to LOSE, why would they risk taking a PED?!".
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think the new version of this is watching an NFL game "LIVE" is the only way to watch.
Living overseas for several years you become accustomed to most of the best prime-time games start in the very early hours of the morning (~3am). Sucks, right? Actually not at all. As long as you can stay away from your phone you never get spoiled and people overseas in general don't care at all about the NFL so you generally never get spoiled walking around in everyday life. So when you do sit down and watch a game you actually watch the game instead of the same pizza hub commercial for the 50th time during a broadcast.
Whenever I hear people suggest they are burning out on NFL football I always suggest they simply try watching the sport on delay. Or really anything having to do with the NFL if I'm being honest. That last draft might be the last one I EVER watch live. The first round used to at least be watchable but the league is trying to kill that experience as well..... IF you are trying to watch it live.
Another great thing about watching games on delay is you save so much time that you really can watch all 16 games every week.
I do this for hockey. It's great to fast forward thru the intermissions and commercials (even though there aren't many of them compared to football). But it's easy to avoid seeing the hockey outcome so the game isn't ruined. For NFL I will record the Vikings game if I am unavailable to watch it live but I have given up trying to avoid finding out what happens throughout the day. It's basically impossible if you play FF because you will find out once you check how your FF team is doing.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Understandable.
If you are in multiple roto-scoring type leagues it's much easier to avoid getting spoiled than in traditional leagues.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
You know, like the MFL10 and similar type draft-and-go formats.
During the NFL season I enjoy watching the games and rooting for my players. For me the "grinding the waiver wire" type leagues are harder at this stage in my life. But to each their own.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I think it would be an interesting (if incredibly nerdy) exercise to look at each team’s Pythagorean win expectation and think about how different their narrative would be if that were their actually record. Imagine an 8-9 team that might have made the playoffs at 10-7 (or vice versa)
wgoldsph
Footballguy
I think the average fan imagines a player uses steroids in the same way as the huge guy at the gym - TO ACHIEVE MAXIMUM BULKAGE. Yes steroids are used to increase recovery time in both cases but for players that simply means getting out of bed in the morning and onto the playing field.
titusbramble
Footballguy
I think there's a majority in the US that think those of us in the UK:
a) want a franchise here
b) would switch to being a fan of the London Jaguars if that was to happen
When neither could be further from the truth
a) want a franchise here
b) would switch to being a fan of the London Jaguars if that was to happen
When neither could be further from the truth
Last edited by a moderator:
About the only time I watch a game live is when multiple games are on at once, so the Sunday early and late afternoon games and even then sometimes I'll record all of those and stagger them out. TNF, SNF, MNF, those games are all recorded and watched later. I do this for every single sport and can't think of doing it another way. Really I do this for all TV, I don't see a reason to sit through commercials or instant replay challenges.BoltBacker said:
Saying that are we now going to be stuck watching the TNF game live since it's streaming?
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I actually disagree with this. I think Coaches and GMs think we, the lay public, do not understand these things, and the casual fan likely doesn't, but the Madden Fan or the FF fan may actually have more information (and be more in tune to Analytics) than coaches/gms.
If Madden taught us anything it is going for it on 4th downs is much more lucrative than coaches think. That is slowly creeping into the coaching ranks bc Madden players don't have to worry about being fired and the analytics of that decision has born fruit.
FF taught us that draft picks are important, but not as important as having a stud veteran player that changes the way a defense has to guard you. Dynasty trades and big leagues where you draft guys in college approach the same (or even better) logic than what a GM does in running their teams.
If I suddenly got an NFL team handed to me, there are a lot of FF guys I'd likely hire to staff the front office, and a lot of madden players I'd hire to do game theory. Sure, you still need position coaches to teach technique, but the "high level decision making" can be done by many of us. (I run 5 front offices in fantasy football. Many play in upwards of 10+ leagues. we have the chops)
renesauz
IBL Representative
If this were true, we'd see more big upsets then we currently do. The better team on paper DOES usually win. yes...there's enough randomness on individual plays that a game or 2 goes the wrong way for most teams, and occasionally a team under/over performs on the year.....but the best teams still almost always find themselves in the playoffs, and bad ones....don't.IvanKaramazov said:
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm not sure how many people think of it as "evil" but I do think the league is more than willing to turn a blind eye or have less than a balance of justice if the league thinks they can make more money.
I still feel bad for those folks in STL that bought into the real estate ponzi scheme that are modern football stadiums and they still don't have a team. There are instances where fans don't want to "help" a BILLIONAIRE owner have a place to pay his millionaire employees so he takes his ball elsewhere..... and while I don't like it I'm fine with it. But when a community steps up and helps pay for the stadium and they are still left empty handed that seems manipulative and underhanded even if it isn't "evil". I suppose when you consider the programs that the community could have used to enhance the lives of people that live there 365 days a year instead of sports fans 8 days out of the year all so a BILLIONAIRE can squeeze out a little more the argument could be made that's treading dangerously close to "evil".
The head trauma situation also makes the league look a lot like the tobacco industry pretending that they had no idea cigarettes had a negative health effect. Almost every "solution" the league comes up with doesn't really cost the league much actual money. That's why I'm always for solutions that also make the league more money because those are the only realistic solutions that will be implemented. For instance they should have kept a 16 game season PER PLAYER even if the TEAM plays 20+ games. Make it so a player can only play 3 games in a month then he has to take a 13 day non-contact window for recovery. Not just a single bye week of the season where they could still have padded practice. "But, but then I'd have to see a backup QB play once a month!?" rings pretty hollow when you have players committing suicide due to head trauma at the end of their career. The league talks a good game about player safety but when something obvious would due a lot more than a touchback but might cost the league a penny the league seems to care a lot less. That may not be "evil" but it's in the neighborhood.
At the end of the day we as fans enable and support this behavior. We are probably more responsible than we care to admit.
BoltNlava
Footballguy
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
I think most fans who really follow football diligently...say like the subscribers here....are aware that the NFL is an oligopoly run by rich white guys with questionable scruples.
We look for the owners to control player morality and the players union to protect player health and safety but all two often both entities are chasing that dolla.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm not part of the Seau family. So it's easier for me to say "no" than it is for them.
FairWarning
Footballguy
