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What's the deal with Moreno? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter All_Day28
- Start date
The deal with Moreno is he's a rookie who missed almost all of preseason and training camps and who had a grand total of 3 carries against NFL-caliber players in a simulated game setting coming into week 1. He's also coming off of an injury and shaking off the rust. I imagine it'll take him a couple of weeks to get up to speed and into game shape, but I'd be fine playing him as a flex this week against Cleveland since he'll almost certainly be getting double-digit touches.
Understand that last year and for several years, Denver has not run the ball well and didn't address this problem in the DRAFT and didn't land a TOP linemen either. Denver has one of the smallest offensive lines in the NFL, and they won't run well this season. With their horrible defense and special teams and did someone say Orton on offense, they will be lucky to win four games..and Denver won't be running the ball much in the second half, when they are behind two or three touchdowns..and how does this reflect on Moreno's fantasy numbers? Yea it's gona be..ugly..I never draft a rookie running back..unless I'm in a dynasty keeper league..Game one was against an inept Bengals team that Denver was a lucky to beat. denver won on a lucky tip drill pass deflection to Stokley the Denver receiver with seconds to go. Denver was never in the game, and the Ben-gals didn't look good either, the Denver Post newspaper talked on Monday how GREAT Denvers defense was..what a joke..I would think that the bengals offense..was..BAD..more than Denvers defense was good..BOTH teams suck..is the answer..and neither played anyone..Go check out Denver's schedule after week three...it's a schedule from HELL...and Moreno will be the least of their problems, I would blow Moreno out of your'e line up and trade him while he's still tradable and make him ..dissapear off my team faster'n a brownie... at a Jenny Craig convention...
nxmehta
Footballguy
I was under the impression that Denver had one of the best O-lines in the NFL. Also, here's where they've ranked in rushing yards the "last several years":2004 - 4th
2005 - 2nd
2006 - 8th
2007 - 9th
2008 - 12th
So I have no idea what you're talking about?
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
Denver has ALWAYS run the ball well. The problem is that one runner could seldom be counted on to be THE GUY. Denver OLs have been very good for years, allowing pretty much anyone back there to succeed on a per-game basis.
EBF
Footballguy
It's a combination of:
1. He's probably not quite as good as hyped.
2. His team sucks.
3. He's inexperienced.
4. He might not have been 100%.
This wasn't his week. He got a handful of touches before taking a wicked shot from Roy Williams, after which he staggered along the sideline like a punch-drunk boxer.
He might not be great this season, but he's the best back on this team and he should be given plenty of opportunities to excel. 1000+ rushing yards is not out of the question if he can stay healthy.
1. He's probably not quite as good as hyped.
2. His team sucks.
3. He's inexperienced.
4. He might not have been 100%.
This wasn't his week. He got a handful of touches before taking a wicked shot from Roy Williams, after which he staggered along the sideline like a punch-drunk boxer.
He might not be great this season, but he's the best back on this team and he should be given plenty of opportunities to excel. 1000+ rushing yards is not out of the question if he can stay healthy.
Understand that this post contains very little fact-like substance.Denver has run the ball extremely well for a while. For instance, last year, they were third in the league in yards per carry. Third. They put SEVEN RBs on IR. They were down to their 8th string RB and they still ranked THIRD in the league in yards per carry. DVOA ranked them as the #1 rushing offense in the entire NFL on a per-carry basis (again, despite literally being down to their 8th string RB).
Denver didn't land a top OLineman in the NFL draft because Denver has a dominating OLine with no holes. Denver has bookends at the tackle position in Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris, both of whom are 26 or younger. Ben Hamilton and Chris Kuper are both very good guards, and Kuper is also very young (Hamilton is 31, iirc- still well within his prime). The only aging starter on the line is Casey Weigmann, who was a pro bowler last year. Last year, in addition to ranking 3rd in the league in yards per carry, Denver had the best sack rate in the league (sacks divided by number of pass attempts), meaning they were every bit as exceptional in pass protection. Also, the line isn't "undersized" anymore- Kuper, Clady, and Harris are all legit 300+ pounders.
I also wonder how Denver was "never in a game" which they were either leading or tied for 59 minutes and 30 seconds of.
Denver's got arguably the best offensive line in the league, and eventually Moreno will be getting the strong majority of the carries behind it. Orton is the QB, but he's best known for his incredible willingness to check down that resulted in Matt Forte getting 60+ receptions last season (and McDaniels specifically said that Moreno's receiving ability was a very strong reason why they drafted him). Orton/Marshall/Royal might be bad, but it's not as bad as Orton/Hester/Rashied Davis, and that trio didn't stop Forte from putting up a top 5 fantasy finish last year. Obviously Moreno is not Forte, but it's far too early to close the book, here.
Kovax
Footballguy
Seriously? That is too bad because finding the right rookie running back (and I think it to be one of the more predictable rookie positions) can be a huge boost to your fantasy team.That said, I am hoping that Moreno sees the type of check down's that Forte saw last year. If he doesn't, I think his value suffers incredibly.
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MCguidance
Footballguy
This post is a prime example why the Shark Pool is both dangerous and unbelievably helpful. You have some guys that make claims unsubstantiated by facts, and others with information coming out of their ears backed by stats. You need to read threads for a while before you make moves, judgments, etc. If you fail to do so, it's at your own peril.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Be patient. Moreno is going to be a dynamic FF RB. He's a multi-talented player running behind a very good OL.
He was nowhere near 100% last week. It was apparent on his first carry (if you're familiar with him). He's also had very little practice, which is a bigger detriment than you might think.
Moreno will get better & better. It may take awhile, but he will start producing nice numbers sometime this season. I'm sure of it.
He was nowhere near 100% last week. It was apparent on his first carry (if you're familiar with him). He's also had very little practice, which is a bigger detriment than you might think.
Moreno will get better & better. It may take awhile, but he will start producing nice numbers sometime this season. I'm sure of it.
UTLonghorn31
Footballguy
Those giving up on Moreno now will be sorry.... if you were wanting him for early in the season, you drafted him for the wrong reason... he has stud potential... last year my rookie stud RB to wait on was Slaton.... it was worth the wait... Moreno is that guy this year... he needs a month
Don't say Beanie is that guy.... Beanie can't pick up blitz packages so it will hurt him from getting on the field
I know James Davis can pick up blitz packages... but his wait is longer and his talent is less than Moreno
Don't say Beanie is that guy.... Beanie can't pick up blitz packages so it will hurt him from getting on the field
I know James Davis can pick up blitz packages... but his wait is longer and his talent is less than Moreno
War Eagle
Footballguy
I was under the impression that Denver had one of the best O-lines in the NFL. Also, here's where they've ranked in rushing yards the "last several years":
2004 - 4th
2005 - 2nd
2006 - 8th
2007 - 9th
2008 - 12th
So I have no idea what you're talking about?
LMAO! It's amazing how the facts can pull someones head right out of their @55!
War Eagle
Footballguy
Couldn't agree more. Moreno is a strong instinctive runner with all the god given tools. He is having his pre-season right now. He'll show some flashes much sooner, but I have tabbed the NE game as Moreno's first big NFL game.
Yea, yea, I know, NE has a solid DEF. They are bend not break. See exhibit A Fred Jackson.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
I was under the impression that Denver had one of the best O-lines in the NFL. Also, here's where they've ranked in rushing yards the "last several years":
2004 - 4th
2005 - 2nd
2006 - 8th
2007 - 9th
2008 - 12th
So I have no idea what you're talking about?
Denver offensive line rankings from.. 2004 4th...2005 2ed..2006 8th..2007 9th..2008 12th..pretty much spells out the direction of the ..FALLING OFF of numbers and my point..doesn't it? You have answered your own question
According to your'e stats, Denvers offensive line is ..regressing, going backwards..and the yards are not getting better they are getting worse. A "bunch of yards" by an offensive line from a team that used NINE running backs last year {RBBC}, doesn't mean much...and a team that doesn't play defense and has horrible special teams..and the quarterback[ Cutler] has to throw for 4,500 yards...because they are always behind isn't a good team to draft running backs from..a team like Denver that doesn't run the ball into the end zone very often, hurts running backs stats,.and hasn't done so since Terrell Davis.
If the running back can't punch the ball into the end zone..and the line is too small..like Denver's is, and has been for several years, as the NFL is going back to LARGE offensive lineman..and "cut blocking' like Denver used to do is now ILLEGAL..so Denvers smaller guys on the line is a thing of the past..they are trying to correct the problem..through free agency and next years draft..
Denver is a perfect example..of an offense that is behind the curve in the draft..and drafting a rookie running back on a bad team, with a new coach. and a new quarter back...is more bust than boom..no I wouldn't expect much from Moreno..this year..
moleculo
Footballguy
Denver offensive line rankings from.. 2004 4th...2005 2ed..2006 8th..2007 9th..2008 12th..pretty much spells out the direction of the ..FALLING OFF of numbers and my point..doesn't it? You have answered your own questionAccording to your'e stats, Denvers offensive line is ..regressing, going backwards..and the yards are not getting better they are getting worse. A "bunch of yards" by an offensive line from a team that used NINE running backs last year {RBBC}, doesn't mean much...and a team that doesn't play defense and has horrible special teams..and the quarterback[ Cutler] has to throw for 4,500 yards...because they are always behind isn't a good team to draft running backs from..a team like Denver that doesn't run the ball into the end zone very often, hurts running backs stats,.and hasn't done so since Terrell Davis.
2004 - 4th
2005 - 2nd
2006 - 8th
2007 - 9th
2008 - 12th
So I have no idea what you're talking about?
If the running back can't punch the ball into the end zone..and the line is too small..like Denver's is, and has been for several years, as the NFL is going back to LARGE offensive lineman..and "cut blocking' like Denver used to do is now ILLEGAL..so Denvers smaller guys on the line is a thing of the past..they are trying to correct the problem..through free agency and next years draft..
Denver is a perfect example..of an offense that is behind the curve in the draft..and drafting a rookie running back on a bad team, with a new coach. and a new quarter back...is more bust than boom..no I wouldn't expect much from Moreno..this year..
bostonfred
Footballguy
Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable discussing the Broncos. The Patriots were 8th in points allowed last year at 309, and 10th in yards allowed. They were 11th in passing yards allowed but only 15th in rush yards allowed. All of those are above average - not "really bad" - and not "especially against the pass". You may be thinking of the fact that they were considered a great fantasy play for quarterbacks and receivers, though - while they were 4th in rush TDs allowed, they were 31st in the league in pass TDs allowed. So as the 8th best team in points allowed, the ratio of passing TDs to rushing TDs was high, just like the Colts (7th best scoring D, 11th in yards allowed, fewest passing TDs allowed, 24th in rush TDs allowed) was skewed in the opposite direction. That didn't make either a "really bad" defense last year.
UPDATE: Wdenesday September 16th "Denver coaching staff reports that the team will use..SEVERAL different running backs starting in game two" [see: Buckhalter & Hillis]Denver offensive line rankings from.. 2004 4th...2005 2ed..2006 8th..2007 9th..2008 12th..pretty much spells out the direction of the ..FALLING OFF of numbers and my point..doesn't it? You have answered your own questionAccording to your'e stats, Denvers offensive line is ..regressing, going backwards..and the yards are not getting better they are getting worse. A "bunch of yards" by an offensive line from a team that used NINE running backs last year {RBBC}, doesn't mean much...and a team that doesn't play defense and has horrible special teams..and the quarterback[ Cutler] has to throw for 4,500 yards...because they are always behind isn't a good team to draft running backs from..a team like Denver that doesn't run the ball into the end zone very often, hurts running backs stats,.and hasn't done so since Terrell Davis.
2004 - 4th
2005 - 2nd
2006 - 8th
2007 - 9th
2008 - 12th
So I have no idea what you're talking about?
If the running back can't punch the ball into the end zone..and the line is too small..like Denver's is, and has been for several years, as the NFL is going back to LARGE offensive lineman..and "cut blocking' like Denver used to do is now ILLEGAL..so Denvers smaller guys on the line is a thing of the past..they are trying to correct the problem..through free agency and next years draft..
Denver is a perfect example..of an offense that is behind the curve in the draft..and drafting a rookie running back on a bad team, with a new coach. and a new quarter back...is more bust than boom..no I wouldn't expect much from Moreno..this year..
Look, I really don't mean to pile on, and I'm not trying to be a jerk or to make you look bad. I just really wouldn't want someone unfamiliar with the situation to read your post and assume that just because you said everything so authoritatively that it was the slightest bit rooted in reality. Because that post is not the slightest bit rooted in reality.Let's start at the beginning. First off, Denver's rushing numbers aren't "falling off" like you claim. Yes, Denver ranked 9th in 2007 and 12th in 2008, and one could say that that's a sign of their running game regressing. Of course, one could also claim that that's a sign that Denver put seven RBs on IR and was rolling with their 8th string RB. I would think that going from your 1st string RB in 2007 to your 8th string RB in 2008 might cost a team three slots in total rushing yards, regardless of what happened on the offensive line.In reality, though, Denver was *BETTER* running the ball in 2008 than they were in 2007. In 2007 they averaged 4.6 yards per carry (which was good enough for 5th in the league). In 2008, despite putting 7 RBs on IR, they averaged 4.8 yards per carry, good for 3rd in the league. 86% of Denver's rushes went for positive yardage, good for 3rd in the league. 70% of their runs on 3rd-and-2 or less wound up converting for a new set of downs, good for 10th in the league. Every Denver RB with more than 50 attempts wound up ranking in the top 10 in the entire NFL in success rate (which measures who well an RB moves the chains). And I need to say it again, because this absolutely positively CANNOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH: Denver was using their 8th string RB. They put seven RBs on IR. In August, Tatum Bell got cut from the Detroit Lions and stole Rudy Johnson's luggage. In September and October, he was selling cell phones at the local mall. In November, he was signed by the Broncos. In December, he was their #1 tailback. We're talking about a guy who is not an NFL-caliber RB: he couldn't even latch on with the 0-16 Detroit Lions. And yet he was the Broncos primary ballcarrier, and he averaged 5.7 yards per carry. Seriously, reread this paragraph again. Read it again. Wrap your head around it. Denver took a cell phone salesman from the mall, made him their 8th string RB, and then had him run for 5.7 yards per carry. And you somehow think this shows that their running game is regressing? Huh?Second, you say that Denver doesn't run the ball into the end zone very often, and hasn't since Terrell Davis. I must have missed when the team signed Terrell Davis in 2005, en route to ranking 3rd in the NFL in rushing TDs. I was of the opinion that Davis left after the 2002 season, but he most not have, since Denver was 3rd in rushing TDs in 2003, too. I guess Davis was responsible for that 5th place rushing TD ranking in 2002 and that 3rd place rushing TD ranking in 2000, too. I mean, sure, he only had 2 combined rushing TDs during those seasons, but I bet he willed Mike Anderson and Clinton Portis into the end zone all those times.Third, you claim that Denver's o-line is too small. Like I said, Denver's line starts THREE legit 300+ pounders... and the two that aren't 300 pounds are both wily veterans who have never been held back by their low weight before (Wiegmann was a pro bowler last year, and Hamilton should have been a pro bowler several times over if the league wasn't always disrespecting Denver o-linemen in pro bowl voting). And if the line is too small, what's it too small for? A tug-o-war contest? Because it's not too small to play NFL football, as evidenced by last year. We already discussed the rushing numbers, but let's look at the sack numbers, shall we? Denver allowed 12 sacks last year. That was the best figure in the entire NFL, matched only by the Tennessee Titans.... but here's the thing. The Tennessee Titans had 453 pass attempts last year. The Denver Broncos had 620. The Broncos allowed a sack for every 52 pass attempts, while the Titans allowed one for every 38. No team in the league allowed a lower sack percentage than the Broncos. So the linemen were plenty big enough to turn a local cell phone salesman into a stud runner, and they were big enough to allow fewer sacks per attempt than anyone else in the league... so what are they too small for? A pie-eating competition? Wet T-Shirt competition? Because they sure aren't too small to dominate the NFL in football.Fourth, you claim that cut blocking is now illegal. That must come as a surprise to every single team in the league, all of whom cut block in every game. I mean, they all know that CHOP blocking is illegal (and has been for some time), but the Broncos don't run a chop blockin scheme, they run a cut blocking scheme. Was anything else made illegal that the rest of the league doesn't know about? Like handing off, or the forward pass?Fifth, not only are Denver's linemen not a problem, they're also not a thing of the past. Three of Denver's starters are 26 or younger. A fourth is 31. Outside of center Casey Wiegmann, this is a unit that will be together with no changes for at least three more seasons, and the two tackles will be bookends for the better part of the next decade.Like I said, I'm not trying to be a tool here, it's just that you keep stating things that are 100% false as if they're absolute inarguable facts, and I would hate for someone unfamiliar with the situation to come in here and take you at your word.
Chaka
Footballguy
I actually feel plenty comfortable discussing the Patriots, but thanks for your concern.
The Patriots totals look respectable on the surface, sure. Dig a little deeper and you'll see it's a total mirage. First off, they had the benefit of incredibly favorable field position. Their special teams were very good, and their offense ranked 8th in the league in turnovers. Those two factors combined allowed New England's defense the 6th best starting field position of any team in the league (average starting point for opponents' drives: the 28 yard line), which helped keep their points allowed numbers way down. Another factor keeping their points allowed way, way down? They played the biggest joke of a schedule I've seen in years. 6 games against the AFC East and the offensive juggernauts that were the Dolphins (21st in scoring offense), Jets (9th in scoring offense), and Bills (23rd in scoring offense). 4 games against the AFC West and the 2nd, 16th, 26th, and 29th scoring offenses. 4 games against the NFC West (4th, 22nd, 25th, 30th). Even the Colts and Steelers were very un-Colt and un-Steeler like last year (Indy ranked 13th, Pitt ranked 20th). That's 10 out of 16 games against teams ranked 20th or worse in scoring offense, vs. 4 games against teams ranked 12th or better. On top of all of that, New England played at a slower pace than most teams in the league. The defense only faced 167 drives all season long, 6th lowest figure in the league.So... given the great field position, the terrible offenses, and the slow pace, you'll pardon me if I'm not too terribly impressed by New England's rankings in total yardage and total points allowed. A better measure, in my mind, is something like DVOA, which takes into account all of those factors and says that New England's defense ranked 21st in the league last year, and 26th against the pass.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Nice post SSOG. You clearly know more than just the Donkeys. IMO, you should be top of the list for new FFG staffers. Always solid analysis.I actually feel plenty comfortable discussing the Patriots, but thanks for your concern.The Patriots totals look respectable on the surface, sure. Dig a little deeper and you'll see it's a total mirage. First off, they had the benefit of incredibly favorable field position. Their special teams were very good, and their offense ranked 8th in the league in turnovers. Those two factors combined allowed New England's defense the 6th best starting field position of any team in the league (average starting point for opponents' drives: the 28 yard line), which helped keep their points allowed numbers way down. Another factor keeping their points allowed way, way down? They played the biggest joke of a schedule I've seen in years. 6 games against the AFC East and the offensive juggernauts that were the Dolphins (21st in scoring offense), Jets (9th in scoring offense), and Bills (23rd in scoring offense). 4 games against the AFC West and the 2nd, 16th, 26th, and 29th scoring offenses. 4 games against the NFC West (4th, 22nd, 25th, 30th). Even the Colts and Steelers were very un-Colt and un-Steeler like last year (Indy ranked 13th, Pitt ranked 20th). That's 10 out of 16 games against teams ranked 20th or worse in scoring offense, vs. 4 games against teams ranked 12th or better. On top of all of that, New England played at a slower pace than most teams in the league. The defense only faced 167 drives all season long, 6th lowest figure in the league.So... given the great field position, the terrible offenses, and the slow pace, you'll pardon me if I'm not too terribly impressed by New England's rankings in total yardage and total points allowed. A better measure, in my mind, is something like DVOA, which takes into account all of those factors and says that New England's defense ranked 21st in the league last year, and 26th against the pass.
Bermuda_Chub
Footballguy
Nice job, SSOG. I've been using DVOA for the past few seasons as a FF/betting indicator with excellent success. I consider it one of the two or three most important tools in my FF toolbox, and it's a wonder that more folks haven't caught on to it yet. A couple of other less analytical nuggets that bolster my faith that Moreno will become an every week FF starter by midseason:
1) Knowshon looks the part. I found myself watching a number of Georgia games last year, and Moreno simply jumped out at me as a future NFL star. He reminded me more than a bit of a young Clinton Portis.
2) McDaniels is going to be a very good offensive coach. His team management skills may leave something to be desired, but he will find a way to get the most out of his playmakers. The mind-boggling numbers put up by the '07 Patriots cannot be ignored and, if you watched Monday night's game, you could tell that the offense had lost a good deal of its inventiveness in his absence -- what worked best were plays that McDaniels virtually patented.
An itch in the back of my mind tells me that Moreno is going to do some damage this week, but I'm going to hold off plugging him in until I'm sure that he's fit and the offense begins to groove.
1) Knowshon looks the part. I found myself watching a number of Georgia games last year, and Moreno simply jumped out at me as a future NFL star. He reminded me more than a bit of a young Clinton Portis.
2) McDaniels is going to be a very good offensive coach. His team management skills may leave something to be desired, but he will find a way to get the most out of his playmakers. The mind-boggling numbers put up by the '07 Patriots cannot be ignored and, if you watched Monday night's game, you could tell that the offense had lost a good deal of its inventiveness in his absence -- what worked best were plays that McDaniels virtually patented.
An itch in the back of my mind tells me that Moreno is going to do some damage this week, but I'm going to hold off plugging him in until I'm sure that he's fit and the offense begins to groove.
I live in Golden, Colorado ten minutes from Invesco and I saw ALL..the Broncos games..everyone..of them. The point isn't "stat"s..the point is..AGAIN..the running backs of Denver don't score many touchdowns..as of LATE, and I did say they haven't much since the days of T Davis..and Moreno won't either..this year..or any year, UNTIL all of the other areas of the team are fixed: defense, special teams, quarterback....and the verdict is still out on the thirty two year old coach..The beginning post question from another individual was about MORENO....and how well will he do..and by the way, Denver stated TODAY that they will be going back to a RBBC [buckhalter Hillis} which ANSWERS HIS QUESTION.. Moreno will be getting ONLY a FEW CARRIES..per game [read it and weep he's not a starter..or a RB2 or even a probably a FLEX at this point] and anyone who owns him..wasted a pick...unless they are in a dynasty league. Everyone does have value but first year running backs get too much hype..Moreno's was a prime example..his real value will come in two years..is what you might need to put in stone and believe..as you will see..The point and post is about "Moreno" and no..he didn't play well in his debut..and will be brought along slowly. If Denver's linemen "dominated the NFL" then why didn't the running backs SCORE more touch downs and blow everyone else away last year..IF they were so..."DOMINATE"?? Ummm they didn't..dominate..[regressing yards every year for the past three years..remember?] We didn't see the Running backs SCORING.. on the ground, in THE RED ZONE!! Who cares about yards..numbers..averages..and stats..of a O-line..fantasy is about 100+ yard games..with ONE player ..ONE fantasy back, and not..NINE..backs..but we did see Cutler throwing the ball..in the end zone THROWING TOUCH DOWNS..when they got close..as proof..EVEN.Shanahan knowing HIMSELF..the offensive LINE.. wasn't that good..and was average at best, as HE DIDN'T TRUST THEM.. to do the J-O-B..we are not talking about pass blocking..we are talking about RUN blocking..this isn't just about "moving the chains' and then bogging down..inside the twenty's..as Denver did..this is about..punching the ball into the END ZONE..the only reason they scored as many points as they did was because of Cutlers..ARM.. IF this offense line is so "DOMINATING" in the RUSH..then why did Cutler have to to THROW.. for 4,500 yards?... and why didn't the running backs score 30 rushing touch downs?? Rushing yards between the 20's is worthless..if you can't rush in the red zone..it's all about the RUSHING IN THE RED ZONE...and Denver's line couldn't do the JOB..because they COULDN"T..but alas this past week..luckily..beating a crummy Bengals team with a freeky tipped pass to Stokley, in week one...was a joke...getting the locals excited is a good thing, but you had better enjoy it because it all changes..and SOON.. and then maybe beating Cleveland..this week..another bad team..before the bottom falls out....I wouldn't want someone to take you at your words either, because you don;'t have a clue..I would want them to watch the FILMS..frrom LAST year..proving my point..and then making sure that they are watching the Bronco's THIS YEAR, to prove my point further..and seeing them go 4-12...which is a reality..the bottom line is and the post and question is about Moreno, and..no he won't do much..is the FACT...
SALEEN,
I think SSOG did a great job bringing statistics into the discussion. If you're going to argue your point, you'd be better served if you also brought statistics, or at least quotes from the coaches.
Of COURSE Moreno is going to split carries. He hasn't had many reps, hasn't had much time to get used to his team, was and is still hurt, yet they used him in their first game? To me, that in no way shape or form shows they're confident in Buckhalter or the other rb's on that team. It'll be rbbc for the next several weeks - but if Moreno does have the talent we're all hoping then he'll slowly steal more and more carries as the season wears on.
Only one team rushed for a better ypc than the Broncos in 2009. The Giants. The Panthers had the same ypc (interestingly enough, the Chiefs were next. ).
The Giants had Brandon Jacobs, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Derrick Ward.
The Panthers had DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart
Those are some good to great running backs.
The Broncos? They used Ryan Torrain. Michael Pittman. Andre Hall. Selvin Young. Peyton Hillis. Tatum Bell.
Jacobs is a great running back. Ward signed a big contract as a FA. Some people have said DeAngelo is the most exciting rb in the game. Stewart is a first round draft pick who has looked good thus far.
Meanwhile, the Broncos were taking guys that weren't even good enough to be a backup on the worst team in the entire NFL, and they were making him look good.
I don't believe Pittman, Hall, Young or Bell are even in the NFL this season. That is beyond amazing - it's quite mind blowing, really, to realize just how good this offensive line is/was.
I think SSOG did a great job bringing statistics into the discussion. If you're going to argue your point, you'd be better served if you also brought statistics, or at least quotes from the coaches.
Of COURSE Moreno is going to split carries. He hasn't had many reps, hasn't had much time to get used to his team, was and is still hurt, yet they used him in their first game? To me, that in no way shape or form shows they're confident in Buckhalter or the other rb's on that team. It'll be rbbc for the next several weeks - but if Moreno does have the talent we're all hoping then he'll slowly steal more and more carries as the season wears on.
Only one team rushed for a better ypc than the Broncos in 2009. The Giants. The Panthers had the same ypc (interestingly enough, the Chiefs were next.
).The Giants had Brandon Jacobs, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Derrick Ward.
The Panthers had DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart
Those are some good to great running backs.
The Broncos? They used Ryan Torrain. Michael Pittman. Andre Hall. Selvin Young. Peyton Hillis. Tatum Bell.
Jacobs is a great running back. Ward signed a big contract as a FA. Some people have said DeAngelo is the most exciting rb in the game. Stewart is a first round draft pick who has looked good thus far.
Meanwhile, the Broncos were taking guys that weren't even good enough to be a backup on the worst team in the entire NFL, and they were making him look good.
I don't believe Pittman, Hall, Young or Bell are even in the NFL this season. That is beyond amazing - it's quite mind blowing, really, to realize just how good this offensive line is/was.
Denver was actually above average in rushing TDs last season (14th) despite ranking 28th in the league in rushing attempts. So if you want to knock Moreno because Denver doesn't score many TDs lately, you'll have to knock 56% of the RBs in the league even MORE, because that's how many teams scored fewer rushing TDs than Denver did last year. Everyone move Adrian Peterson down in your rankings- Minnesota only scored as many rushing TDs last year as Denver did. Knock down Brian Westbrook and LaDainian Tomlinson, too. So long Marion Barber. See ya later, Clinton Portis. Sayonara, Frank Gore. Take care, Steven Jackson. All you guys play in offenses that scored fewer rushing TDs than the Denver Broncos last year... and as SALEEN says, it doesn't matter what you do between the 20s, it only matters if you can punch it in in the RED ZONE.Sarcasm aside, unless you're in a TD-only league, who cares how many rushing TDs Denver scores? In 2004, Droughns finished the season 14th despite only scoring 6 rushing TDs and only logging 10 carries in the first 4 games. There are these little things called "yards", too, and most fantasy leagues will award points for those, as well. Denver's kind of had a penchant for producing those over the years.
Again... 8th string RB. Are you really not comprehending this? Your QB is a high first round draft pick really coming into his own. Your WRs are a pro bowler and a rookie having one of the best rookie seasons in NFL history. Your runningback was a guy so bad he wasn't even one of the 53 best players on the 0-16 Detroit Lions. In this situation, do you think you'd call more passes or rushes?And as for the reason why the running backs didn't score 30 rushing TDs... that's an easy one. You know how often a team scores 30 rushing TDs? It's happened 6 times in the last 30 years.So... let's get this straight. Your main criticism of the Denver running game is that they *ONLY* ranked 14th in rushing TDs last year (despite ranking 28th in attempts), and that they called more plays for their pro bowl QB to pass than they did for their 8th string RB to rush, and that they didn't become the seventh team in the last 30 years to rush for 30+ TDs. Oh, and that somehow the offensive line is undersized and sucks despite Denver ranking 3rd in the league in yards per carry and 1st in the league in sacks per pass attempt. Is that the gist of it?
theglorydays
Footballguy
bonesman
Footballguy
THAT is solid analysis right there. Joe B?... keep an eye on this guy... I smell staffer material.
MCguidance
Footballguy
Someone end this blood bath.
Ditka is God
Footballguy
Now THAT'S a
... good thread. Thanks. As someone who saw UGA play a lot last year I think Moreno will be a heckuva NFL back, and sooner rather than later. I think the Portis comparison is a good one. JMO.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Some great discussion in here. I think it comes down to this. If Moreno can show he is more effective that Correll or Hillis, he'll get more opportunities. This is no mean task however. I am an dynasty owner of Moreno and this thread has been a good read.
Thanks Sabertooth that's correct and that was also my same feelings and what I stated in the beginning.
The post question was about Moreno and his value moving forward throughout the season. The Bronco Coaches cleared all of this up yesterday, by assigning a RBBC ..again. Somehow I made the mistake of getting mixed up in a discussion on the past Bronco rushing stats that DON'T matter ..today. The trend over the past several years, shows in the stats..that the rushing numbers of the Broncos rushing attack..have regressed..in the rankings ..was the point. I didn't mean to get several people all upset over the facts...of the NUMBERS showing that they have gone backwards, every year for the past three years to four years, ..and fell to ..12th last year. How can you argue with that fact?
The Super Bowl Bronco teams under Shannahan had an AMAZING offensive line..and they ran the ball down people's throats as that set up the pass, and that's how they won but..the opposite of what they have been doing since.I believe that was OVER ten years ..ago. The origional question being asked by someone seeing Moreno struggle in his first game, and wondering IF they should hang on to him, or dump him..and the question is YES..if they have a stable of starting good running backs, and IF..they can keep him on the bench and wait for weeks...and hope that the Denver line comes together, and he produces and doesn't turn the ball over when given the chance.
I think that might be asking for alot, as most Fantasy owners don't have the time to wait..as some drafted him as a third or fourth running back and will have their starters off on bye weeks..soon and will need a #2RB.. type numbers, as they believed some magazine or Fantasy site that Moreno would be a stud and just take over the job right out of training camp, in his first game..and they drafted him way too early..but the answer is NO.. if they are looking for help NOW..I believe Buckhalter might be the benefactor of most of the carries this week and over the next several weeks as Moreno get's more comfortable and settled.
If you look at their schedule..after Bengals, Browns, Oakland, the Broncos could certainly and might be 3-0 as the Denver fans would be on cloud nine, and then comes the truth ....DALLAS, NEW ENGLAND, SAN DIEGO, BALTIMORE, PITTSBURG, WASHINGTON, SAN DIEGO, NEW YORK GIANTS, [ummm..hows the RUSHING.. game going so far? ]....KANSAS CITY, INDY, OAKLAND, PHILLY...get my point?..I wouldn't want ANY.. of their RBBC running backs.
Game one: Bronco TEAM rush stats
vs. Bengals: 20 rush 75 yds.
Moreno 8/20
..Of course we are expecting them to be better, and they will certainly do better this week against Cleveland as Peterson didn't even break a sweat...
The post question was about Moreno and his value moving forward throughout the season. The Bronco Coaches cleared all of this up yesterday, by assigning a RBBC ..again. Somehow I made the mistake of getting mixed up in a discussion on the past Bronco rushing stats that DON'T matter ..today. The trend over the past several years, shows in the stats..that the rushing numbers of the Broncos rushing attack..have regressed..in the rankings ..was the point. I didn't mean to get several people all upset over the facts...of the NUMBERS showing that they have gone backwards, every year for the past three years to four years, ..and fell to ..12th last year. How can you argue with that fact?
The Super Bowl Bronco teams under Shannahan had an AMAZING offensive line..and they ran the ball down people's throats as that set up the pass, and that's how they won but..the opposite of what they have been doing since.I believe that was OVER ten years ..ago. The origional question being asked by someone seeing Moreno struggle in his first game, and wondering IF they should hang on to him, or dump him..and the question is YES..if they have a stable of starting good running backs, and IF..they can keep him on the bench and wait for weeks...and hope that the Denver line comes together, and he produces and doesn't turn the ball over when given the chance.
I think that might be asking for alot, as most Fantasy owners don't have the time to wait..as some drafted him as a third or fourth running back and will have their starters off on bye weeks..soon and will need a #2RB.. type numbers, as they believed some magazine or Fantasy site that Moreno would be a stud and just take over the job right out of training camp, in his first game..and they drafted him way too early..but the answer is NO.. if they are looking for help NOW..I believe Buckhalter might be the benefactor of most of the carries this week and over the next several weeks as Moreno get's more comfortable and settled.
If you look at their schedule..after Bengals, Browns, Oakland, the Broncos could certainly and might be 3-0 as the Denver fans would be on cloud nine, and then comes the truth ....DALLAS, NEW ENGLAND, SAN DIEGO, BALTIMORE, PITTSBURG, WASHINGTON, SAN DIEGO, NEW YORK GIANTS, [ummm..hows the RUSHING.. game going so far? ]....KANSAS CITY, INDY, OAKLAND, PHILLY...get my point?..I wouldn't want ANY.. of their RBBC running backs.
Game one: Bronco TEAM rush stats
vs. Bengals: 20 rush 75 yds.
Moreno 8/20
..Of course we are expecting them to be better, and they will certainly do better this week against Cleveland as Peterson didn't even break a sweat...
abishagenaden
Footballguy
That's because he was too dehydrated to.
Fullback Fro
yesno
No way could you get to Invesco from Golden in 10 minutes, unless it was 3:00am and you had a camero.
I made the mistake of getting into a discussion about the PAST Denver rushing stats, that don't really matter today, that do show the NUMBERS that the rushing yards, have regressed over the past three to four years was the point..and the fact.
The original question was what to do with Moreno the owner that asked the question..seeing him go 8/20 and the Denver running backs as a unit go 20/75 yards against the Bengal's. A Denver offense that was totally out of sync that struggled the whole game with so many new players. But on a good note, after playing the Bengals, then Cleveland and Oakland the Broncos with a little LUCK [stokley where are you?]..could certainly be 3-0 against teams that are not any better than they are , these three other teams that will probably finish with losing records also and stop no one..
This week the RBBC against Cleveland could have some nice stats, and then of course the TRUTH... sets in..
..DALLAS NEW ENGLAND, SAN DIEGO, BALTIMORE, PITTSBURG, WASHINGTON, SAN DIEGO, NEW YORK GIANTS, [so how's the Broncos vaunted "DOMINATING"..2009 Denver rushing ATTACK.. going..anyways???..yea I figured].. KANSAS CITY, INDY, OAKLAND, PHILLY, KANSAS CITY. So who wants..to trade this owner for.. Moreno? case closed...lol. Sorry I offended anyone the facts will come out as the season progresses...
The original question was what to do with Moreno the owner that asked the question..seeing him go 8/20 and the Denver running backs as a unit go 20/75 yards against the Bengal's. A Denver offense that was totally out of sync that struggled the whole game with so many new players. But on a good note, after playing the Bengals, then Cleveland and Oakland the Broncos with a little LUCK [stokley where are you?]..could certainly be 3-0 against teams that are not any better than they are , these three other teams that will probably finish with losing records also and stop no one..
This week the RBBC against Cleveland could have some nice stats, and then of course the TRUTH... sets in..
..DALLAS NEW ENGLAND, SAN DIEGO, BALTIMORE, PITTSBURG, WASHINGTON, SAN DIEGO, NEW YORK GIANTS, [so how's the Broncos vaunted "DOMINATING"..2009 Denver rushing ATTACK.. going..anyways???..yea I figured].. KANSAS CITY, INDY, OAKLAND, PHILLY, KANSAS CITY. So who wants..to trade this owner for.. Moreno? case closed...lol. Sorry I offended anyone the facts will come out as the season progresses...
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Is this a Donny T alias?
Moreno has bee hurt. He's still hurt.
What do you expect? Do you really think they'll give him all the touches? It could be argued a more competent coach would sit him until he's healthy but that's not what is happening here.
He had virtually ZERO time in the preseason. AND he was hurt. Despite this, the coaches thought so little of their other options, they actually played Knowshon. I think even his biggest supporters will admit it's going to be rbbc the next several weeks. I really don't think many people are disputing that.
It's what will happen as he gets more accustomed to things and gets healthier - will it still be rbbc at that time? I really don't think it will be.
It's going to take time for them to get in synch. As bad as Orton is, he's not as bad as he looked last game.
The Broncos kept the SAME OFFENSIVE LINE AS LAST YEAR. They kept the same offensive line coach as last year. You know, last year - when they ranked only behind the Giants in team ypc despite starting players that aren't in the league this year and guys who weren't even good enough to be backups on the worst team in the NFL.
Heck, when you consider their o-line and their qb, one could even argue once Moreno gets up to speed they'll start running the ball a LOT more than they'll pass it. And with Orton having the nickname "Captain Checkdown", it's quite reasonable to think Moreno will get a lot of dump offs as well.
What do you expect? Do you really think they'll give him all the touches? It could be argued a more competent coach would sit him until he's healthy but that's not what is happening here.
He had virtually ZERO time in the preseason. AND he was hurt. Despite this, the coaches thought so little of their other options, they actually played Knowshon. I think even his biggest supporters will admit it's going to be rbbc the next several weeks. I really don't think many people are disputing that.
It's what will happen as he gets more accustomed to things and gets healthier - will it still be rbbc at that time? I really don't think it will be.
It's going to take time for them to get in synch. As bad as Orton is, he's not as bad as he looked last game.
The Broncos kept the SAME OFFENSIVE LINE AS LAST YEAR. They kept the same offensive line coach as last year. You know, last year - when they ranked only behind the Giants in team ypc despite starting players that aren't in the league this year and guys who weren't even good enough to be backups on the worst team in the NFL.
Heck, when you consider their o-line and their qb, one could even argue once Moreno gets up to speed they'll start running the ball a LOT more than they'll pass it. And with Orton having the nickname "Captain Checkdown", it's quite reasonable to think Moreno will get a lot of dump offs as well.
