When does Manning's legacy as a "loser" finally (1 Viewer)

[John Mamula]

Manning is notorious for choking in playoff games and could not win with a very talented team in college with Tennessee...a team Tee freaking Martin took to win a title the very next year. None of the Mannings have the "winner" gene, and the shine has come off Eli already with the main stream media. Peyton however, is some sort of changeling freak who can seemingly morph into a winner and trick the masses when only a small sub sect of us can see him for the charletan he is.

So here we are in the 2007 playoffs with Manning throwing pick after pick after pick only to be bailed out by his defense, a defense he has thrown under the bus in the past. It is only a matter of time until that defense cannot bail Manning out and this week against the Patriots is it.

So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

 

[blenderfrog]

Manning is notorious for choking in playoff games and could not win with a very talented team in college with Tennessee...a team Tee freaking Martin took to win a title the very next year. None of the Mannings have the "winner" gene, and the shine has come off Eli already with the main stream media. Peyton however, is some sort of changeling freak who can seemingly morph into a winner and trick the masses when only a small sub sect of us can see him for the charletan he is.So here we are in the 2007 playoffs with Manning throwing pick after pick after pick only to be bailed out by his defense, a defense he has thrown under the bus in the past. It is only a matter of time until that defense cannot bail Manning out and this week against the Patriots is it.So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

He's got quite a few years left to win a super bowl. Might be worth waiting at least until he's closer to the end of his career to determine what his "legacy" is.

 

[kevthegrad]

"Loser"? That's a bit strong. Maybe another Marino, best player to never win the big one...but nobody who puts up the stats he does can be a 'loser'.

I will say I'm tired of their sick regular season records and then playing like crap in the playoffs.

Something tells me this is the year they get it together.

 

[Capella]

Manning is notorious for choking in playoff games and could not win with a very talented team in college with Tennessee...a team Tee freaking Martin took to win a title the very next year.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

All Mannings are choke artists by nature.

That Being said, i hope the colts win against NE, and I find it highly possible.

The NFC is very weak right now as always.

The Winner of the AFC should win the superbowl, esp. if the Bears somehow beat the Saints.

The Saints are the best chance against the AFC, with their high powered offense, but they are a very

beatable team.

Basically, if Peyton wins 2 more winnable games, he gets a ring. End of discussion, choke theory will not

survive in 2007 quite possibly.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Here we go again.....

 

[tommyGunZ]

Probably the Colts have won 10+ games in 7 of the 9 seasons since he arrived?

 

[John Mamula]

Manning is notorious for choking in playoff games and could not win with a very talented team in college with Tennessee...a team Tee freaking Martin took to win a title the very next year. None of the Mannings have the "winner" gene, and the shine has come off Eli already with the main stream media. Peyton however, is some sort of changeling freak who can seemingly morph into a winner and trick the masses when only a small sub sect of us can see him for the charletan he is.So here we are in the 2007 playoffs with Manning throwing pick after pick after pick only to be bailed out by his defense, a defense he has thrown under the bus in the past. It is only a matter of time until that defense cannot bail Manning out and this week against the Patriots is it.So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

He's got quite a few years left to win a super bowl. Might be worth waiting at least until he's closer to the end of his career to determine what his "legacy" is.

He does, but do the Colts?Teams have a very limited window to win. To think that the Colts have a window that lasts into perpetuity is naive. That window has maybe another year left. Maybe.

 

[John Mamula]

Probably the Colts have won 10+ games in 7 of the 9 seasons since he arrived?

He has been an improvement over Harbaugh and George no doubt.But he has done less with more over the past 4 years than any QB in recent memory.

 

[3C's]

I could have swore that they lost in the playoffs last year when that idiot kicker was wide right.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

I disagree Bagger, I think that unless you live in Detroit or Oakland, your team has a legitimate chance.

The NFL is so fickle with the salary cap, free agency, great rookies, injuries, schedules, weather, hot streaks, cold streaks, good/bad matchups, divisional strength variations, where every year you get a whole new scenario that is very hard to predict. To put a time limit on a team like the Colts that compete year in and year out is stupid. You can't seriously think the Colts will not be competitive in 2 years. If you do then I think you're really out to lunch. Virtually every team has a chance to win the big dance, just look at the Saints and Bears this year. No one could call that before the year I don't care what you say. The NFL is unpredictable, which is what makes it great.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Probably the Colts have won 10+ games in 7 of the 9 seasons since he arrived?

He has been an improvement over Harbaugh and George no doubt.But he has done less with more over the past 4 years than any QB in recent memory.

This is where we'll disagree. I think Harrison, Wayne, and the Edge to an extent are all a product of the Indy system, and of Manning's greatness, not the other way around.There are several rosters in the NFL I'd rather have than Indy's. There is no QB I'd rather have than Manning.

 

[cobalt_27]

Probably the Colts have won 10+ games in 7 of the 9 seasons since he arrived?

He has been an improvement over Harbaugh and George no doubt.But he has done less with more over the past 4 years than any QB in recent memory.

Apparently, hyperbole is a must and football knowledge is optional in this thread. Enjoy the fishing trip.

 

[Dynasty]

He's got quite a few years left to win a super bowl. Might be worth waiting at least until he's closer to the end of his career to determine what his "legacy" is.

Wasn't John Elway considered a "loser" prior to Super Bowl XXXII?

 

[John Mamula]

I could have swore that they lost in the playoffs last year when that idiot kicker was wide right.

i believe bfred's post regarding this game can tell my point of view much better than i ever could.

 

[John Mamula]

He's got quite a few years left to win a super bowl. Might be worth waiting at least until he's closer to the end of his career to determine what his "legacy" is.

Wasn't John Elway considered a "loser" prior to Super Bowl XXXII?

Yes.Please note that my thread topic is a question so your answer may be "never, he will win a couple titles and shut his critics up".Manning does have time still, but he needs to do something about it quick.

 

[GregR_2]

...

So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

Better be careful, you just actually called this week a big game. If Manning wins you won't be able to backtrack and say it wasn't to be able to keep saying he can't win the big one.

 

[diesel7982]

...

So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

Better be careful, you just actually called this week a big game. If Manning wins you won't be able to backtrack and say it wasn't to be able to keep saying he can't win the big one.

Gotta love the Manning haters...by their definition, the only "big games" he plays are the ones he loses.

This past weekend AT #2 SEED Baltimore was not a big game, because he won it.

 

[noneother]

is he the nfl's karl malone, clyde drexler or charles barkley? did marino ever get the "loser" moniker?

 

[cobalt_27]

...

So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

Better be careful, you just actually called this week a big game. If Manning wins you won't be able to backtrack and say it wasn't to be able to keep saying he can't win the big one.

Nah, he's not locked into anything. He'll just say, "he's supposed to win" these games and is, therefore, not a big deal.

 

[lions327]

is he the nfl's karl malone, clyde drexler or charles barkley? did marino ever get the "loser" moniker?

The difference between those players and Manning, just by watching, they didn't seem to have their performance drop off in the playoffs near as much as Mannings has.

 

[JohnnyU]

WOW!! How refreshing to see a thread that hasn't been covered before, good job.

 

[JohnnyU]

Gotta love the Manning haters...by their definition, the only "big games" he plays are the ones he loses.This past weekend AT #2 SEED Baltimore was not a big game, because he won it.

Best post of the day.

 

[massraider]

WOW!! How refreshing to see a thread that hasn't been covered before, good job.

For real.Holy ####ing boring Batman.I pine for a thread about "classy" players.

 

[pinequick]

He's got quite a few years left to win a super bowl. Might be worth waiting at least until he's closer to the end of his career to determine what his "legacy" is.

Wasn't John Elway considered a "loser" prior to Super Bowl XXXII?

Yes.Please note that my thread topic is a question so your answer may be "never, he will win a couple titles and shut his critics up".

Manning does have time still, but he needs to do something about it quick.

Why?? I think that this is a great post that refutes that notion quite effectively.

 

[John Mamula]

...

So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

Better be careful, you just actually called this week a big game. If Manning wins you won't be able to backtrack and say it wasn't to be able to keep saying he can't win the big one.

it would be an improvement, but he'd still have to win the super bowl to fully exercise this demon.if manning wins the super bowl feel free to bump the thread and i'll admit i was wrong.

not the first time i have been wrong.

(pistons have no chance)

 

[John Mamula]

is he the nfl's karl malone, clyde drexler or charles barkley? did marino ever get the "loser" moniker?

malone and barkley played well in the playoffs and their teams were there because of them.if not for the colts' defense they would already be ousted from the playoffs due to manning's horrific post season play.

 

[John Mamula]

...

So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

Better be careful, you just actually called this week a big game. If Manning wins you won't be able to backtrack and say it wasn't to be able to keep saying he can't win the big one.

Gotta love the Manning haters...by their definition, the only "big games" he plays are the ones he loses.

This past weekend AT #2 SEED Baltimore was not a big game, because he won it.

manning is going to need to win the super bowl because he has been on superior regular season teams who have underachieved in the post season.just like marty, eventually regular season wins don't mean as much if you can't take it to the next level.

manning is stuck in 3rd gear when brady has taken it into 6th and is redlining.

 

[Val Rannous]

is he the nfl's karl malone, clyde drexler or charles barkley? did marino ever get the "loser" moniker?

Please note that Clyde the Glide won a ring - 2nd Rockets Championship (93-94?)

 

[ChampBailey24]

He hasn't played well in the playoffs this year but he sure has in the past.

So let's take a look at his playoffs stats in the last 4 years (when the Colts were good):

In last year's game against the Steelers, he actually played pretty well: 22/38-290yards-1TD-0INT-GOOD GAME

In 2004:

27/33-458yards-4TDss-1INT-AMAZING GAME

27/42-238yards-0TD-1INT-UNDER AVERAGE GAME

In 2003:

22/26-377yards-5TDs-0INT-AMAZING GAME

22/30-304yards-3TDs-0INT-GREAT GAME

23-47-237yards-1TD-4INTs-AWFUL GAME

2 amazing games, 1 great game, 1 good game, 1 under average game and 1 awful game. That's pretty good I'd say.

I mean, come on. Brady was awful yesterday, no problem, his team won. Manning has been awful so far in the playoffs, but even if his team won, he's a choker. Right...

Also, remember that Manning has faced 2 tough Ds against the pass (The Cheifs and the Ravens).

 

[gump]

could not win with a very talented team in college with Tennessee

Manning led a come back from a 20-7 deficit and won the 1997 SEC Championship by throwing a 73-yard TD to beat Auburn 30-29. It was his 4th of the day, and along with 373 yards, led to his being named MVP.I consider that a very big win. A bigger win in college than Elway, Marino, Kelly, Aikman, Big Ben, or even Tom Brady ever won...if I remember correctly.

 

[nygiants56]

I could have swore that they lost in the playoffs last year when that idiot kicker was wide right.

that might be true, but wide right or not, they got a GIFT from Bettis, and another gift from the refs who said Polamalu's interception, wasn't an INT. and they couldn't capitalize.it happens. the better team won that game.the Colts can erase all of that, with a win this weekend..

 

[H.K.]

Per the title of the thread, the main stream media has covered his struggles in the playoffs. Its common knowledge, so they don't really beat it into the ground, but its always mentioned when the Colts play. The guy has a regular season 2:1 TD/INT ratio, but in the post season its just about 1:1.

Cris Collinsworth made plenty of references to his poor post season play when he covered their first game.

FWIW, I've never heard anyone on TV say he was a good post season QB, usually they say he struggles in the playoffs....because he does.

 

[Thunderlips]

...

So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

Better be careful, you just actually called this week a big game. If Manning wins you won't be able to backtrack and say it wasn't to be able to keep saying he can't win the big one.

Gotta love the Manning haters...by their definition, the only "big games" he plays are the ones he loses.

This past weekend AT #2 SEED Baltimore was not a big game, because he The Colts Defense and Special Teams won it.

corrected.....Ask yourself.... is Peyton Manning worth the money the Colts organization has paid him....particularly in regards to postseason games? There are very few postseason games that you can point to and say that he took the team on his shoulders and guided them to victory. Not saying it will never happen...but if his career were to end this week.....it would have to be viewed as somewhat of a dissapointment.

 

[BGP]

Well if we want to define the playoffs as the "big games" then:

regular season: 275 TDs, 139 INTs

post season: 16 TDs, 13 INTs

So Peyton Manning's numbers do drop a bit in postseason.

His numbers are rather in-line with most good quarterbacks in the playoffs.

-----------

But how about these numbers:

regular season: 172 TDs, 114 INTs

postseason: 6 TDs, 11 INTs

Now THERE is a big dropoff in big games.

Which QB is that?

Steve McNair.

 

[Tough As Nails]

Not sure why the topic was worded like it is. Every single time Manning is talked about the playoff disappointments are brought up. The Marino comparisons are endless. The first and last comments the CBS guys made after the Colts win was about Manning's chance to 'rid himself of the can't win the big one label.' I'll bet you the opening montage of the Patriots v. Colts game mentions it. He gets that criticism allll the time. You aren't really breaking any news here and all the media already recognize it.

 

[trader jake]

I posted this in another thread, but it's appropriate here (in bagger's fishing trip) as well...

Peyton Manning Hater Playbook:

Colts win and Manning has big statistical game: That game wasn't a big game anyway. Just wait until he chokes next week in the big game. Repeat this line until the Colts lose. Manning will never win a title so don't even acknowledge the possibility that he could lead the Colts to a Super Bowl win. Even poke fun at his appearance or commercials.

Colts win and Manning has average or below average game: What a choker. I can't wait for Manning to choke again next week. Only next week ________ won't bail him out. Mention clever lines about dogs and sun shining on their backsides.

Colts lose and Manning has a big to average game: That's all Manning can do...put up big numbers. The guy isn't a winner and never will be. His cap number kept the Colts from adding more talent around him to win. What a selfish bastage. Compare him to guys like Terrell Owens or Dennis Rodman.

Colts lose and Manning has poor game: Open the floodgates. Type anything and everything. Make sure to mention Tom Brady and any other QB who has won a Super Bowl. Bonus points for Trent Dilfer or Mama Cass references.

 

[bostonfred]

I could have swore that they lost in the playoffs last year when that idiot kicker was wide right.

From 48 yards, the longest attempt he had of the season, when Manning had time and two timeouts left but inexplicably took two shots at the endzone instead of moving them closer. Could Vanderjagt have hit it? Of course. Was it a gimme? Not even close. This was the third of Manning's game losing mistakes in that game, from the Polamalu interception, to a two sack/one pressure drive where he gave up the ball on four downs, to the drive where he left his kicker with a 48 yard game tying kick and the pressure of their entire postseason on his leg. It's lazy to shrug it off and blame it on the idiot kicker.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

I agree with the above Manning Hater playbook thats pretty funny too

But you cannot deny so far when push comes to shove in the playoffs, Manning and his nerves of Jello have been on display for all to see. This year I think he can win with the team he has, theyre playing decent. On the other hand, Manning has looked dreadful against the Chiefs and the Ravens, making me wonder. You can't deny Mannings greatness in the statbook, nor can you deny he has never won anything but alot of regular season outings and a couple of playoff games.

It may seem as if I'm flip flopping from one side to another, but in reality I'm just callin it as i see it.

Manning is great on paper, but come playoff time I'd *gulp* rather have Brady, Big Ben, or maybe even Jim Harbaugh circa 1994.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Probably the Colts have won 10+ games in 7 of the 9 seasons since he arrived?

He has been an improvement over Harbaugh and George no doubt.But he has done less with more over the past 4 years than any QB in recent memory.

This is where we'll disagree. I think Harrison, Wayne, and the Edge to an extent are all a product of the Indy system, and of Manning's greatness, not the other way around.There are several rosters in the NFL I'd rather have than Indy's. There is no QB I'd rather have than Manning.

Really?

 

[Pat Patriot]

I posted this in another thread, but it's appropriate here (in bagger's fishing trip) as well...

Peyton Manning Hater Playbook:

Colts lose and Manning has a big to average game: That's all Manning can do...put up big numbers. The guy isn't a winner and never will be. His cap number kept the Colts from adding more talent around him to win. What a selfish bastage. Compare him to guys like Terrell Owens or Dennis Rodman.

As far as I can see, that has NEVER happened. Show me the game. He has never lost a shootout in the playoffs

Colts lose and Manning has poor game: Open the floodgates. Type anything and everything. Make sure to mention Tom Brady and any other QB who has won a Super Bowl. Bonus points for Trent Dilfer or Mama Cass references.

This has happened a lot of times. From what I can see, he gets killed based on the following games:

16 points against Tenn

17 points against Miami

0 points against the Jets

14 points against the Pats

3 points against the Pats

18 points against the Steelers

 

[bostonfred]

Gotta love the Manning haters...by their definition, the only "big games" he plays are the ones he loses.This past weekend AT #2 SEED Baltimore was not a big game, because he won it.

Best post of the day.

I agree with you guys on this point. I don't think it's a question of Manning being unable to win a big game. He just makes huge mistakes when the pressure is on. I don't think that makes it impossible for him to win. I just think it makes him a huge drag on his team's chances to win a Superbowl.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Manning is notorious for choking in playoff games and could not win with a very talented team in college with Tennessee...a team Tee freaking Martin took to win a title the very next year. None of the Mannings have the "winner" gene, and the shine has come off Eli already with the main stream media. Peyton however, is some sort of changeling freak who can seemingly morph into a winner and trick the masses when only a small sub sect of us can see him for the charletan he is.So here we are in the 2007 playoffs with Manning throwing pick after pick after pick only to be bailed out by his defense, a defense he has thrown under the bus in the past. It is only a matter of time until that defense cannot bail Manning out and this week against the Patriots is it.So when Manning gets bounced from the playoffs yet again and the Colts' window for a Super Bowl is all but shut, will the main stream media finally shed some light on the fact that Manning just does not have "it" in big games?

I think its "subset" not "sub sect".

 

[PatsWillWin]

 

[SuperJohn96]

Imagine if Peyton had Marty as his coach.

They would go 16-0 every year, and lose the first game of the playoffs.

It'd be hysterical.

 

[Tau837]

I could have swore that they lost in the playoffs last year when that idiot kicker was wide right.

From 48 yards, the longest attempt he had of the season, when Manning had time and two timeouts left but inexplicably took two shots at the endzone instead of moving them closer. Could Vanderjagt have hit it? Of course. Was it a gimme? Not even close. This was the third of Manning's game losing mistakes in that game, from the Polamalu interception, to a two sack/one pressure drive where he gave up the ball on four downs, to the drive where he left his kicker with a 48 yard game tying kick and the pressure of their entire postseason on his leg. It's lazy to shrug it off and blame it on the idiot kicker.

Maybe you could just put this in your signature. It would save you a lot of time typing.

 

[Barry]

A better question. Why is it so important for people to label Manning a loser? Especially nobodies who've never played the game.

 

[Tau837]

Gotta love the Manning haters...by their definition, the only "big games" he plays are the ones he loses.This past weekend AT #2 SEED Baltimore was not a big game, because he won it.

Best post of the day.

I agree with you guys on this point. I don't think it's a question of Manning being unable to win a big game. He just makes huge mistakes when the pressure is on. I don't think that makes it impossible for him to win. I just think it makes him a huge drag on his team's chances to win a Superbowl.

Oh wait, maybe this is what should be in your signature...

 

[bostonfred]

I could have swore that they lost in the playoffs last year when that idiot kicker was wide right.

From 48 yards, the longest attempt he had of the season, when Manning had time and two timeouts left but inexplicably took two shots at the endzone instead of moving them closer. Could Vanderjagt have hit it? Of course. Was it a gimme? Not even close. This was the third of Manning's game losing mistakes in that game, from the Polamalu interception, to a two sack/one pressure drive where he gave up the ball on four downs, to the drive where he left his kicker with a 48 yard game tying kick and the pressure of their entire postseason on his leg. It's lazy to shrug it off and blame it on the idiot kicker.

Maybe you could just put this in your signature. It would save you a lot of time typing.

Not a bad idea. When people stop mischaracterizing the Steelers game as having something to do with the kicker, it will save me a lot of time.

Gotta love the Manning haters...by their definition, the only "big games" he plays are the ones he loses.This past weekend AT #2 SEED Baltimore was not a big game, because he won it.

Best post of the day.

I agree with you guys on this point. I don't think it's a question of Manning being unable to win a big game. He just makes huge mistakes when the pressure is on. I don't think that makes it impossible for him to win. I just think it makes him a huge drag on his team's chances to win a Superbowl.

Oh wait, maybe this is what should be in your signature...

And when people stop mischaracterizing the "Manning hater" argument as "he can't win the big game", I'll stop refuting that, too. It's easy (and true) to say "He won a big game, therefore, the statement that he can't win the big game isn't true". It's harder to argue that Manning doesn't screw up in the playoffs at a much higher rate and in much more disastrous ways than his peers (of which there are few).

 

[redman]

All Mannings are choke artists by nature.That Being said, i hope the colts win against NE, and I find it highly possible.The NFC is very weak right now as always.The Winner of the AFC should win the superbowl, esp. if the Bears somehow beat the Saints.The Saints are the best chance against the AFC, with their high powered offense, but they are a very beatable team.Basically, if Peyton wins 2 more winnable games, he gets a ring. End of discussion, choke theory will not survive in 2007 quite possibly.

My complimentson your double spacing.