chinawildman
Footballguy
A young up and coming RB unseated a healthy veteran "plodder" as the starter midseason without injury playing a factor?
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When was the last time... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter chinawildman
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Charles unseating Larry Johnson?
omally
Footballguy
chinawildman
Footballguy
I actually had Charles that year and if I remember correctly Johnson made publicly disparaging comments eventually leading to his suspension and ultimately release from the team. Not sure if injuries played a factor initially however.
My thought exactly... Gio may be a spark plug, but law firm is the engine itself...Yea I'm not getting the re-draft Gio love, either
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I believe you are correct, but before the suspension the writing was all over the wall as LJ was averaging sub 3 YPC.
So, is this thread alluding to the unlikelihood that Gio will unseat the plodding BGE?
EBF
Footballguy
When a team with a somewhat viable RB already on the roster uses a high pick on a rookie RB, it seems like they usually opt for a RBBC during the rookie's first season. I'm thinking of McCoy in Philly, Gore in SF, Rice in Baltimore, Charles in KC, MJD in Jacksonville, Ridley in New England, Spiller in Buffalo, Greene in New York, and Williams in Carolina as good recent examples. Those guys all went on to be 1000+ yard backs, but none of them were handed the keys to the car right away. It's relatively easy for a rookie RB to make an immediate impact, but there's still a learning curve and it seems like teams are content to use the rookie in a committee or backup role out of the gate if given the option.
I think you only see a rookie RB in a true workhorse role when a team is desperate or when the rookie is just so much better than his competition that it would be criminal to keep him on the sidelines (i.e. Peterson, Martin, Chris Johnson).
I think you only see a rookie RB in a true workhorse role when a team is desperate or when the rookie is just so much better than his competition that it would be criminal to keep him on the sidelines (i.e. Peterson, Martin, Chris Johnson).
chinawildman
Footballguy
That situation is certainly applicable though not specific to the origin of the question. I was contemplating the difference in value between someone like Bernard (behind a "plodding" veteran) vs. Christine Michael (behind a pro bowl RB) during the draft, and realized that either way you're betting on an injury to get any kind of RB1/2 return.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Actually even Peterson had to give up a lot of downs to Chester Taylor at the beginning of his career.
I think part of it is because the league is more of a passing league now than it used to be. So a RB needs to know the offense and be able to pass protect to get a huge amount of snaps right away. In the past offense were based more around the running game so a new RB was not being asked to do quite as many things right away, because teams were not as often doing other things.
I do not recall if Edgerin James had any competition as a rookie. They traded away Faulk to the Rams so there was a big void to fill.
Part of why I liked Moreno as a rookie was because of his proficiency as a pass protector. That didn't work out that well, but I do not recall that many other rookie RB being praised in this area like he was.
In regards to Bernard from what I have read he is decent in this area and will be without question a better receiving option than the law firm.
Not sure this will matter as much for Michael because the Seahawks like to run the ball a lot.
I think part of it is because the league is more of a passing league now than it used to be. So a RB needs to know the offense and be able to pass protect to get a huge amount of snaps right away. In the past offense were based more around the running game so a new RB was not being asked to do quite as many things right away, because teams were not as often doing other things.
I do not recall if Edgerin James had any competition as a rookie. They traded away Faulk to the Rams so there was a big void to fill.
Part of why I liked Moreno as a rookie was because of his proficiency as a pass protector. That didn't work out that well, but I do not recall that many other rookie RB being praised in this area like he was.
In regards to Bernard from what I have read he is decent in this area and will be without question a better receiving option than the law firm.
Not sure this will matter as much for Michael because the Seahawks like to run the ball a lot.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
The difference is in their floors obviously, as Gio is expected to see a very relevant amount of playing time. As for the odds of them reaching their ceilings, I suppose given the history as EBF pointed out, it would indeed take an injury.
It's important to note that BGE is the only RB to average sub 4 YPC over the past two years. On 150+ carries, you're looking at..
2011 - Thomas Jones (3.1), Daniel Thomas (3.5), Peyton Hillis (3.6), BGE (3.7), M.Bush (3.8), B. Jacobs (3.8), Benson (3.9) Bradshaw (3.9)
2012 - DMC (3.3), Richardson (3.6), Turner (3.6), Leshoure (3.7), Mathews (3.8), Ballard (3.9), BGE (3.9), S.Greene (3.9) Ingram (3.9)
He's in good company.
IMO, the only reason BGE was ever a known commodity was because of his prowess at the GL in NE. NE proved with Ridley last year that BGE's success was more so a product of the system as they lead the league in rushing TDs. I was quite surprised to learn recently that NE has lead the league in rushing TDs and rushing attempts within the 10 yard line over the past 3 years.
Insein
Footballguy
Reap the rewards. BJGE is going in the 11th and bernard is going in the 5th or 6th. I do think bernard is better by the end of the year but law firm is going to be a decent rb3 for the first 6-8 weeks.My thought exactly... Gio may be a spark plug, but law firm is the engine itself...Yea I'm not getting the re-draft Gio love, either
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
No offense man, but I'd very much like for my opponent to be flexing BGE against me this year. He relies on volume to buoy his floor due to his plodding nature and the fact that he doesn't play a role in the passing game. For a RB whose rushing attempts are predicted to decline rather largely this year, that's no good. There are going to be weeks where he doesn't crack double digit points even when he does score a TD. I'd rather my flex have a bit more upside.Reap the rewards. BJGE is going in the 11th and bernard is going in the 5th or 6th. I do think bernard is better by the end of the year but law firm is going to be a decent rb3 for the first 6-8 weeks.My thought exactly... Gio may be a spark plug, but law firm is the engine itself...Yea I'm not getting the re-draft Gio love, either
cstu
Footballguy
That's true. I just don't think it will take much for Gio to take over. If BGJE stubs his toe he could be out of a job.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
often its opportunity to do it - rookie RB's aren't given it as often as rookie WR's and QB's are they ?
EBF
Footballguy
I think BJGE will see 100-150 carries regardless. Gio isn't the biggest or strongest back. The staff will probably try to limit his exertion, especially since he's a rookie on a team with realistic playoff aspirations. I also think there's a contrast in style between the two players. No doubt Gio is more dynamic. BJGE offers more thump though.
I think MJD's rookie year is a good best case scenario for Gio. IIRC he didn't get a huge total of carries, but he still made a big impact in FF because of his total yards.
I think MJD's rookie year is a good best case scenario for Gio. IIRC he didn't get a huge total of carries, but he still made a big impact in FF because of his total yards.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
BGEs stat line would look something like 100-150/390-585/? with that amount of carries using last years YPC. He'd need to match last years TD total on half as many carries to enter low-end flex territory (in standard). To put it into context, he had the 8th most rushing attempts last year yet finished as the 25th RB on a PPG basis in standard (28th in PPR). You're right however, he'll get his touches regardless as to how valueless they may be.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The opposite used to be true. But I think it is more even now than it used to be.
With the new rookie salary rules teams are more able to let QB develop now than they were in recent past because they are not on the hook for as big of a contract.
Last season having 3 rookie QB start as well as they did is not really normal. The zone read is part of that, but all 3 of those QB are pretty mobile is another part of it.
On the same token teams may be more willing to let mobile QBs risk themselves in early career because they are not on the hook for so much money as they once were. So more willing to risk their health. At the same time mobile QBs from the past certainly put that to use zone read or not. So in that sense it is the same as always.
Insein
Footballguy
I'm not advocating using him the whole year. But this is a week to week game and you'd be hard pressed to find a RB3 or flex that could give you 75 yards and a possible TD for the first 6 weeks of the year. I'm just saying when his ADP is currently 8th and 9th round (12 team and 10 team FFCalculator) and Bernard's is 4th or 5th, that's when guys like Ronnie Hillman, Jonathan Dwyer and Danny Woodhead are going. You could do worse.No offense man, but I'd very much like for my opponent to be flexing BGE against me this year. He relies on volume to buoy his floor due to his plodding nature and the fact that he doesn't play a role in the passing game. For a RB whose rushing attempts are predicted to decline rather largely this year, that's no good. There are going to be weeks where he doesn't crack double digit points even when he does score a TD. I'd rather my flex have a bit more upside.Reap the rewards. BJGE is going in the 11th and bernard is going in the 5th or 6th. I do think bernard is better by the end of the year but law firm is going to be a decent rb3 for the first 6-8 weeks.My thought exactly... Gio may be a spark plug, but law firm is the engine itself...Yea I'm not getting the re-draft Gio love, either
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Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
Domanick Davis, Houston, 2003. Stacey Mack was named as Houston's opening day starter, but was ineffectual. Davis replaced him after 4-5 games and ended up winning Rookie Of The Year.
Anthony Thomas, Chicago, 2001. Replaced James Allen midway through the 2001 season and rushed for 1100 yards.
Anthony Thomas, Chicago, 2001. Replaced James Allen midway through the 2001 season and rushed for 1100 yards.
Actually, your reply made me think there actually.is a good example of a rookie coming in and replacing the veteran plodder that was seen just last year...
Martin wasn't drafted to be the starter, was he? Blount was the veteran plodder projected to be the starter, but Martin was just so much more than a plodder they had to give him the starting job...
Or am I not remembering the situation correctly.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
For ####s 'n gigles... historically, how does the #1 drafted RB do in his rookie season?
133 497 0
369 1,553 13
309 1,364 6
339 1,236 10
243 887 6
McGahee sat out season.
134 673 4
207 907 4
155 565 6 + 742 rec
238 1,341 12
113 499 4
247 947 7
74 283 0
122 474 5
267 950 11
Past 15 years worth.
133 497 0
369 1,553 13
309 1,364 6
339 1,236 10
243 887 6
McGahee sat out season.
134 673 4
207 907 4
155 565 6 + 742 rec
238 1,341 12
113 499 4
247 947 7
74 283 0
122 474 5
267 950 11
Past 15 years worth.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It was a brand new coaching staff that used a first roundpick on Martin - I'd guess the plan was for Martin to start all along.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Looks like you're not including receiving yards (for most)
But Gio is no AD, LT, Edge, or Jamal.
Just can't get too excited about Gio.
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