Where does Brandon Jackson go.... (1 Viewer)

[Vic Mackey]

Would you say he could go number one?

He appears to have the GB starting locked up.

He's a RB and therefore more valuable than WRs, in general. Calvin may be an exception.

AP will split time with Chester, for at least a year, if not two.

Marshawn has A-Train in his backfield.

All the other WRs, besides Calvin have pretty big question marks.

Maybe I'm drinking kool-aids, but I'd take him number one if my rookie draft was tomorrow.

-Vic

 

[Burning Sensation]

Would you say he could go number one?He appears to have the GB starting locked up.He's a RB and therefore more valuable than WRs, in general. Calvin may be an exception.AP will split time with Chester, for at least a year, if not two.Marshawn has A-Train in his backfield.All the other WRs, besides Calvin have pretty big question marks.Maybe I'm drinking kool-aids, but I'd take him number one if my rookie draft was tomorrow.-Vic

 

[Vic Mackey]

Would you say he could go number one?He appears to have the GB starting locked up.He's a RB and therefore more valuable than WRs, in general. Calvin may be an exception.AP will split time with Chester, for at least a year, if not two.Marshawn has A-Train in his backfield.All the other WRs, besides Calvin have pretty big question marks.Maybe I'm drinking kool-aids, but I'd take him number one if my rookie draft was tomorrow.-Vic

I take it you disagree with my statement, I ask for your input.-Vic

 

[mlball77]

#4 ish



I look at value this year and forward in dynasty. Thus, Peterson, Lynch and Johnson all easily stay ahead of Jackson on my board.

 

[Burning Sensation]

At best, he is the 1.4 pick, but you must know that.

 

[Vic Mackey]

I can see some sticking with AP, he looked good, but he's running aggressively, and already has an injury history. Even if you took AP first, would you take him second? third? fourth?

-Vic

 

[Burning Sensation]

1. Peterson

2/3. Lynch/CJ

4. Jackson

 

[Angus82]

NO WAY!!! Brandon appears to be in a good position but I have heard a number of concerns about his pass blocking. After seeing AP last night and understanding that Marshawn will get the majority of carries, taking Jackson would be a MAJOR reach. I am not saying that it won't pay off, I am just saying that it is not a gamble that I would take.

 

[Burning Sensation]

NO WAY!!! Brandon appears to be in a good position but I have heard a number of concerns about his pass blocking. After seeing AP last night and understanding that Marshawn will get the majority of carries, taking Jackson would be a MAJOR reach. I am not saying that it won't pay off, I am just saying that it is not a gamble that I would take.

I am

 

[Vic Mackey]

Do you guys see a potential RBBC in Green Bay?

If someone can be a primary back how much does that raise their dynasty value? Especially at a position that has such a short career span as RB.

I've drafted Charles Rogers, Troy Williamson, and many other WRs early, only to see guys like TJ, Colston, and the like come from nowhere and produce. Maybe I'm just bitter about burning high picks on busts, usually at the WR position.

I feel that Brandon's competition is weaker than Lynch's and APs, maybe I'm buying into my own opinion too much.

-Vic

 

[Angus82]

NO WAY!!! Brandon appears to be in a good position but I have heard a number of concerns about his pass blocking. After seeing AP last night and understanding that Marshawn will get the majority of carries, taking Jackson would be a MAJOR reach. I am not saying that it won't pay off, I am just saying that it is not a gamble that I would take.

I am

Any particular reason, or just a gut feel?

 

[Jeff Tefertiller]

NO WAY!!! Brandon appears to be in a good position but I have heard a number of concerns about his pass blocking. After seeing AP last night and understanding that Marshawn will get the majority of carries, taking Jackson would be a MAJOR reach. I am not saying that it won't pay off, I am just saying that it is not a gamble that I would take.

I am

Any particular reason, or just a gut feel?

one thing is the original poster thinks Peterson is an injury risk, but Jackson is not. Seems odd to me.

 

[mlball77]

Do you guys see a potential RBBC in Green Bay?

I might be in the minority here, but I strongly feel that Morency will be involved in a RBBC in GB this year. Morency knows the system and was very effective last season in limited action. His knee injury is concerning, but I still think he is very involved in GB's running game in 07.

 

[Angus82]

NO WAY!!! Brandon appears to be in a good position but I have heard a number of concerns about his pass blocking. After seeing AP last night and understanding that Marshawn will get the majority of carries, taking Jackson would be a MAJOR reach. I am not saying that it won't pay off, I am just saying that it is not a gamble that I would take.

I am

Any particular reason, or just a gut feel?

one thing is the original poster thinks Peterson is an injury risk, but Jackson is not. Seems odd to me.

I must be hammered. The original poster wrote about AP splitting time, not any injury concern. That being said, I agree with you, if I can assume what you are writing, Jackson is an injury risk himself.

 

[Jeff Tefertiller]

NO WAY!!! Brandon appears to be in a good position but I have heard a number of concerns about his pass blocking. After seeing AP last night and understanding that Marshawn will get the majority of carries, taking Jackson would be a MAJOR reach. I am not saying that it won't pay off, I am just saying that it is not a gamble that I would take.

I am

Any particular reason, or just a gut feel?

one thing is the original poster thinks Peterson is an injury risk, but Jackson is not. Seems odd to me.

I must be hammered. The original poster wrote about AP splitting time, not any injury concern. That being said, I agree with you, if I can assume what you are writing, Jackson is an injury risk himself.

Post 6 in this threadI can see some sticking with AP, he looked good, but he's running aggressively, and already has an injury history. Even if you took AP first, would you take him second? third? fourth?

-Vic

 

[Angus82]

NO WAY!!! Brandon appears to be in a good position but I have heard a number of concerns about his pass blocking. After seeing AP last night and understanding that Marshawn will get the majority of carries, taking Jackson would be a MAJOR reach. I am not saying that it won't pay off, I am just saying that it is not a gamble that I would take.

I am

Any particular reason, or just a gut feel?

one thing is the original poster thinks Peterson is an injury risk, but Jackson is not. Seems odd to me.

I must be hammered. The original poster wrote about AP splitting time, not any injury concern. That being said, I agree with you, if I can assume what you are writing, Jackson is an injury risk himself.

Post 6 in this threadI can see some sticking with AP, he looked good, but he's running aggressively, and already has an injury history. Even if you took AP first, would you take him second? third? fourth?

-Vic

My bad, I missed it!!

 

[The Man With No Name]

Do you guys see a potential RBBC in Green Bay? If someone can be a primary back how much does that raise their dynasty value? Especially at a position that has such a short career span as RB. I've drafted Charles Rogers, Troy Williamson, and many other WRs early, only to see guys like TJ, Colston, and the like come from nowhere and produce. Maybe I'm just bitter about burning high picks on busts, usually at the WR position. I feel that Brandon's competition is weaker than Lynch's and APs, maybe I'm buying into my own opinion too much.-Vic

In dynasty you should draft on talent first, regardless of situation. Look at last year when Wali Lundy and Mike Bell were being drafted in the 1st. Peterson, Johnson, and Lynch should be 1-3, then ??. if you want Jackson over them, trade down to 4 and aquire more picks. If he goes 1-3 then you still get a better talent imo.

 

[nygiants56]

Do you guys see a potential RBBC in Green Bay?

I might be in the minority here, but I strongly feel that Morency will be involved in a RBBC in GB this year. Morency knows the system and was very effective last season in limited action. His knee injury is concerning, but I still think he is very involved in GB's running game in 07.

but Morency has more health issues than just about anyone in the NFL.He's brittle, He's already out 4 weeks. I put no faith in Morency being a factor in GB this season.Jackson will start from day one, and even if they wanted to use RBBC, you cannot count on Morency to stay healthy, so its going to be Jackson one way or another.

 

[bluesclues]

Morency is a better back than is Jackson.

When gametime comes, he will show it.

His style is geared for the Packers system.

He just needs to hold onto the ball.

 

[zed2283]

Our dynasty draft started Friday night and went (no surprise):

1. A.Peterson

2. C.Johnson

3. M.Lynch

4. B.Jackson

 

[nightmare]

Buddy of mine who is a Packers homer says B Jackson missed his blocking assignments in the drills.

Can anyone confirm this?

In dynasty its A Peterson 1a, M Lynch 1b, C Johnson, 3rd B Jackson 4th.

A Thomas will not see RBBC playing time, he will end up spelling Lynch.

C Taylor MIGHT start but that will not last.

C Johnson goes that high just on ability/situation alone.

 

[fantasyfreak06]

Our dynasty draft started Friday night and went (no surprise):1. A.Peterson2. C.Johnson3. M.Lynch4. B.Jackson

most people favor talent over situation. If you go for talent then:1.AP2.CJ3.ML4.?????? It wouln't be JacksonNow if you try and consider talent and situation together, which I think you have to. Jackson clearly has the best opportunity to get the most touches except maybe ML. However, you have to also consider if you are in a dynasty or redraft. I would defintly put AP first if you are in a Dynasty league and then take a hard look at your roster in a dynasty league if you are thin at receiver then CJ number two. So it would go like this for me as well.1. AP- Will share carries this year so if this is dynasty you have to grab him #1, if re-draft depends on your depth and ADP.2. CJ- Dynasty league go CJ and Redraft go ML or BJ. Roy williams will take a lot of targets and balls from CJ. 1000 yards and 6-8 tds is not to much to ask if he starts out #2 WR in high powered Martz O.3. ML- Buffalo brass seems to really love A-train and always has. However, he never seems to put it all together and stay healthy. Lynch is demanding big money considering his draft position and will be the #1 some time this year maybe day one. A lot of teams are favoring the dreaded RBBC and Buffalo maybe leaning that way.4. BJ- he seems to have the best chance out of any rookie to produce and receive the most touches. This is subject to change b/c of injuries and suprizes we haven't seen yet. He came from a very simliar zone blocking system in which he faired very well. The blocking problem will work itself out will more practice and reps he is receiving with the first unit. If he continues to play like last night you have to keep him on the field. Morency is very fragle and will probably be a change of pace back and insurance policy. BJ is improving vastly over the coarce of eack week and will get better.

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

I did reach for Jackson at 3.

I didn;t reach because of talent. I reached for 2 reasons.

1. I already had Morency!

2. I already had plenty of stud receivers and needed a back.

Morency is the starter in GREEN BAY!

No ifs or butts about it!

Get out of your pre season wishful thinking and into the real picture!

Jackson is earning playing time and a great handcuff to Morency!

It'spreseason!

Daft Sproles and Turner ahead of LT because Lt isn't playing. haha

Same situation in Greem Bay except Morency is more a injury risk then LT!

 

[i2obertm]

Buddy of mine who is a Packers homer says B Jackson missed his blocking assignments in the drills. Can anyone confirm this?

He apparently had trouble with blocking early in camp, but he blocked solidly in last night's game.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I did reach for Jackson at 3.

I didn;t reach because of talent. I reached for 2 reasons.

1. I already had Morency!

2. I already had plenty of stud receivers and needed a back.

Morency is the starter in GREEN BAY!

No ifs or butts about it!

Get out of your pre season wishful thinking and into the real picture!

Jackson is earning playing time and a great handcuff to Morency!

It'spreseason!

Daft Sproles and Turner ahead of LT because Lt isn't playing. haha

Same situation in Greem Bay except Morency is more a injury risk then LT!

And the fact that Morency is no LT. Let's not forget that little tidbit.

 

[Bears_Man2]

1. Peterson

2. CJ

3. Lynch

4. Brandon Jackson (RBBC this year & you can't leave out the possibility that if he's just decent that a new guy will be in there next year).

Peterson & Johnson are elite Pro Bowl talents. Lynch is a step below them, but should have a nice career ahead of him. Jackson, IMO is a clear 4th in this grouping.

 

[Vic Mackey]

Thanks for all the info/opinions guys.

-Vic

 

[supermark_28]

Vic,not sure if you have the NFL Network but the Pack/'Hawks replay will be on

tomorrow 10am EST. I have BJackson and will definitely be checking out his performance.

 

[Disco Stu]

Anyone taking Jackson over Calvin Johnson is going to be kicking themselves sooner or later. Passing on elite talent in favor of situation is not the way to build a strong dynasty league team.

 

[mggoilers]

Morency has 1 NFL start, he is not the seasoned vet he is made out to be. Green Bay traded away an undrafted player (Gado) to acquire Morency, so did Morency's value go down or Gado's go up, or did 2 teams just swap backups? GB just spent a 2nd rounder for Jackson, so he holds value.

Jackson may catch a breather on 3rd downs if they need Morency to block, but I believe Jackson plays till he falls apart.

There was never a Morency "Time", so his value is a bit overstated.

Brandon Jackson is the 4th best rookie at this time, and should be productive if he can stay healthy.

 

[FFdork]

1. Peterson2. CJ3. Lynch4. Brandon Jackson (RBBC this year & you can't leave out the possibility that if he's just decent that a new guy will be in there next year).Peterson & Johnson are elite Pro Bowl talents. Lynch is a step below them, but should have a nice career ahead of him. Jackson, IMO is a clear 4th in this grouping.

What he said. As far as Brandon Jackson goes, with what GB has at the position (or doesn't have, if you take my meaning), I would expect him to already be way out ahead of the competition if he was the kind of superior talent to warrant the #1 in a rookie draft. He had some moments in the game yesterday, but nothing that blew me away. IMO he's a decent talent in a decent situation for him. BTW, I don't see his situation as any more clear cut than Peterson or Lynch. In fact I expect both of those guys to become the primary ball carriers sooner rather than later. As others have pointed out, it seems the original poster is way too focused on this season rather than superior talent. That can be appropriate if your team is really close, but unless your league is really big or has some wacky roster requirements, it's hard to imagine that Brandon Jackson would be the difference in a championship run. Peterson and Lynch still seem more likely to help if that's the case.If you're worried about Peterson's injury history, Calvin is a safe pick. As others have said, you'd be better off trading back if you are dead set on Jackson (believe me, you'll have no problem finding suitors for picks 1-3...and they're not trading up to get Jackson).

 

[Asinine]

The first three dynasty picks off the board are Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, and Calvin Johnson in no particular order. After that, it's a steep drop to JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Brandon Jackson, the other 5 first round WRs, and the 2nd-7th round RBs that owners will undoubtedly reach for.

IMHO Jackson is on most folks radar because he was drafted in the 2nd round and has a good opportunity in GB, however he was barely in the top 10 on a lot of RB scouting reports. Scenario reminds me of Mike Bell last year -- lots of hype, open competition in DEN, Bell is drafted top 5, and lots of owners were left holding the bag.

 

[wornson]

Latest on Jackson:

Notes: Jackson secures hold at running back

By TOM SILVERSTEIN

tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Aug. 19, 2007

Green Bay - You'd have to have a lot of faith in the healing powers of the Green Bay Packers' medical staff to think that anyone but rookie Brandon Jackson will be the starting halfback come opening day. Jackson has started both exhibition games, and after posting a respectable 13-carry, 54-yard, one-touchdown performance in the Packers' 48-13 victory Saturday night over the Seattle Seahawks, there's little reason to think he won't be No. 1 on the depth chart the rest of training camp.

Jackson's main competition, Vernand Morency, isn't ready to return to the field, and so the rookie from Nebraska will go into the third exhibition game poised to handle most of the running duties. General manager Ted Thompson said he thought rookie DeShawn Wynn (thigh) was still day-to-day and was not guaranteed of returning for the Jacksonville game Thursday, leaving Jackson, rookie Corey White and veteran Noah Herron to handle the rushing load.

It was supposed to be a two-man race between Jackson and Morency, but it has turned out to be no race at all.

"Right now, he's definitely way ahead because the other guy unfortunately hasn't competed at all," offensive coordinator Joe Philbin said. "There's really no comparison at this stage."

To many observers, including Packers coach Mike McCarthy and Philbin, Jackson ran with better balance and fewer steps as he made his cuts into the hole, but Thompson said he didn't see anything different in Jackson than he did a week earlier at Pittsburgh. It appeared Jackson had far better success running the ball and was also more stout in his pass protection against Seattle, though some of that might have had to do with the overall performance of the offense.

Asked if he saw a difference in Jackson from the Pittsburgh game to the Seattle game, Thompson said Sunday: "Not that I could tell. He looks the same to me. He's quick, he has strong lowers, strong hands and runs hard. I'd have to say he looked the same. But we're liking what we see."

 

[BeTheMatch]

The first three dynasty picks off the board are Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, and Calvin Johnson in no particular order. After that, it's a steep drop to JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Brandon Jackson, the other 5 first round WRs, and the 2nd-7th round RBs that owners will undoubtedly reach for.

IMHO Jackson is on most folks radar because he was drafted in the 2nd round and has a good opportunity in GB, however he was barely in the top 10 on a lot of RB scouting reports. Scenario reminds me of Mike Bell last year -- lots of hype, open competition in DEN, Bell is drafted top 5, and lots of owners were left holding the bag.

I think a big difference, though, is that Mike Bell was an undrafted FA, and Jackson was taken in the second round. So the assumption is that Jackson has more talent.

 

[greenf7cat]

At best, he is the 1.4 pick, but you must know that.

I took him at 1.4 in my keeper league draft yesterday... I also have Morency, so i wanted to have the starting RB in GB, whoever it ends up being.

 

[Kit Fisto]

The first three dynasty picks off the board are Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, and Calvin Johnson in no particular order. After that, it's a steep drop to JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Brandon Jackson, the other 5 first round WRs, and the 2nd-7th round RBs that owners will undoubtedly reach for.IMHO Jackson is on most folks radar because he was drafted in the 2nd round and has a good opportunity in GB, however he was barely in the top 10 on a lot of RB scouting reports. Scenario reminds me of Mike Bell last year -- lots of hype, open competition in DEN, Bell is drafted top 5, and lots of owners were left holding the bag.

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner! Someone start a poll like we had last year!

 

[switz]

Would you say he could go number one?He appears to have the GB starting locked up.He's a RB and therefore more valuable than WRs, in general. Calvin may be an exception.AP will split time with Chester, for at least a year, if not two.Marshawn has A-Train in his backfield.All the other WRs, besides Calvin have pretty big question marks.Maybe I'm drinking kool-aids, but I'd take him number one if my rookie draft was tomorrow.-Vic

He should go no higher than 4th.Lynch and Peterson are far better talents at the RB position, and both will play as large a role in their teams offense as Jackson, if not more of a role. Calvin Johnson is an elite WR a la LArry Fitzgerald calibre. Those three should be the top-3. Jackson no higher than 4th.FYI - Jackson went 4th in my rookie draft which started last week.

 

[switz]

Latest on Jackson:

Notes: Jackson secures hold at running back

By TOM SILVERSTEIN

tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Aug. 19, 2007

Green Bay - You'd have to have a lot of faith in the healing powers of the Green Bay Packers' medical staff to think that anyone but rookie Brandon Jackson will be the starting halfback come opening day. Jackson has started both exhibition games, and after posting a respectable 13-carry, 54-yard, one-touchdown performance in the Packers' 48-13 victory Saturday night over the Seattle Seahawks, there's little reason to think he won't be No. 1 on the depth chart the rest of training camp.

Jackson's main competition, Vernand Morency, isn't ready to return to the field, and so the rookie from Nebraska will go into the third exhibition game poised to handle most of the running duties. General manager Ted Thompson said he thought rookie DeShawn Wynn (thigh) was still day-to-day and was not guaranteed of returning for the Jacksonville game Thursday, leaving Jackson, rookie Corey White and veteran Noah Herron to handle the rushing load.

It was supposed to be a two-man race between Jackson and Morency, but it has turned out to be no race at all.

"Right now, he's definitely way ahead because the other guy unfortunately hasn't competed at all," offensive coordinator Joe Philbin said. "There's really no comparison at this stage."

To many observers, including Packers coach Mike McCarthy and Philbin, Jackson ran with better balance and fewer steps as he made his cuts into the hole, but Thompson said he didn't see anything different in Jackson than he did a week earlier at Pittsburgh. It appeared Jackson had far better success running the ball and was also more stout in his pass protection against Seattle, though some of that might have had to do with the overall performance of the offense.

Asked if he saw a difference in Jackson from the Pittsburgh game to the Seattle game, Thompson said Sunday: "Not that I could tell. He looks the same to me. He's quick, he has strong lowers, strong hands and runs hard. I'd have to say he looked the same. But we're liking what we see."

Bold sentence tells you everything - only reason he's winning the competition is because there IS NO competition. Morency is hurt. Once Morency comes back, he will at the minimum cut into Jackson's carries.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Latest on Jackson:

Notes: Jackson secures hold at running back

By TOM SILVERSTEIN

tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Aug. 19, 2007

Green Bay - You'd have to have a lot of faith in the healing powers of the Green Bay Packers' medical staff to think that anyone but rookie Brandon Jackson will be the starting halfback come opening day. Jackson has started both exhibition games, and after posting a respectable 13-carry, 54-yard, one-touchdown performance in the Packers' 48-13 victory Saturday night over the Seattle Seahawks, there's little reason to think he won't be No. 1 on the depth chart the rest of training camp.

Jackson's main competition, Vernand Morency, isn't ready to return to the field, and so the rookie from Nebraska will go into the third exhibition game poised to handle most of the running duties. General manager Ted Thompson said he thought rookie DeShawn Wynn (thigh) was still day-to-day and was not guaranteed of returning for the Jacksonville game Thursday, leaving Jackson, rookie Corey White and veteran Noah Herron to handle the rushing load.

It was supposed to be a two-man race between Jackson and Morency, but it has turned out to be no race at all.

"Right now, he's definitely way ahead because the other guy unfortunately hasn't competed at all," offensive coordinator Joe Philbin said. "There's really no comparison at this stage."

To many observers, including Packers coach Mike McCarthy and Philbin, Jackson ran with better balance and fewer steps as he made his cuts into the hole, but Thompson said he didn't see anything different in Jackson than he did a week earlier at Pittsburgh. It appeared Jackson had far better success running the ball and was also more stout in his pass protection against Seattle, though some of that might have had to do with the overall performance of the offense.

Asked if he saw a difference in Jackson from the Pittsburgh game to the Seattle game, Thompson said Sunday: "Not that I could tell. He looks the same to me. He's quick, he has strong lowers, strong hands and runs hard. I'd have to say he looked the same. But we're liking what we see."

Bold sentence tells you everything - only reason he's winning the competition is because there IS NO competition. Morency is hurt. Once Morency comes back, he will at the minimum cut into Jackson's carries.

It's not the only reason. He's still beating out Herron, and he's not hurt. Jackson has looked good, and obviously Morency's injury helps Jackson, but you can't sit here and say definitively that Morency would for sure be the starter had he not been hurt.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

I don't think anyone's arguing that Herron should be in the starting picture (barring injuries).

And switz didn't say Morency would definitely be starting. He said at a minimum, Morency will cut into Jackson's numbers (i.e. some variety of RBBC).

And to answer the question, I wouldn't even consider Jackson if I had picks 1-3. I'd start to consider him at #4, depending on my roster situation.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I don't think anyone's arguing that Herron should be in the starting picture (barring injuries).

Well, why not? If the only reason B-Jax is the starter is because Morency is hurt, then wouldn't the same apply to Herron? Yet he's not starting. Why? Because obviously Jackson has done SOMETHING to distinguish himself.

 

[switz]

I don't think anyone's arguing that Herron should be in the starting picture (barring injuries).

Well, why not? If the only reason B-Jax is the starter is because Morency is hurt, then wouldn't the same apply to Herron? Yet he's not starting. Why? Because obviously Jackson has done SOMETHING to distinguish himself.

I said the only reason there is no competition is because Morency is hurt. And NO, Herron is NOT competition for the starting spot. Before Morency was injured, the "competition" was between Morency and Jackson. Herron was never in the picture as a possible starter, outside of a few misguided folks on these forums.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I don't think anyone's arguing that Herron should be in the starting picture (barring injuries).

Well, why not? If the only reason B-Jax is the starter is because Morency is hurt, then wouldn't the same apply to Herron? Yet he's not starting. Why? Because obviously Jackson has done SOMETHING to distinguish himself.

I said the only reason there is no competition is because Morency is hurt. And NO, Herron is NOT competition for the starting spot. Before Morency was injured, the "competition" was between Morency and Jackson. Herron was never in the picture as a possible starter, outside of a few misguided folks on these forums.

Fine. But my point is that after Morency's injury, if B-Jax hadn't looked so good, I think you would've seen Herron enter the "competition."