Which O-Line Worries You this Season? (1 Viewer)

[HonoluluBlue]

Hi Guys,

New to the forums but a huge fan of Footballguys and their great community. I'm excited to start interacting and participating this season with all of you!

For my first question I would like to ask: Which team's O-Line has you a little frightened this season? Last season, Arizona looked awful, and their running game suffered. Who has you worried this year? How do you think this will this hurt their running/passing game?

 

[Drop]

The Giants and Saints offensive lines worry me a little bit, because I think they have some players that are not that good and could be problems. Eli Manning and Drew Brees are masters of getting into good play alignments and more importantly mitigating the rush with pocket awareness, Brees is especially good at it in my opinion. The Giants have some versatility allowing them to move guys around comfortably to get 5 solid starters. The Saints LT spot might be a problem with Armstead, C. Brown, and J. Smith. I am not sure why Brown hasn't played much in his career, but it must mean something that he hasn't. I do not think Armstead is very good right now. I don't think that Ben Grubbs replaced Carl Nicks impact wise, he may not seem like much of a downgrade on paper, but from what I saw he was. Chris Snee has declined as a player, he still has good stretches though. Jahri Evans is the only dominant player on either offensive line. I don't like Justin Pugh very much and I think he'll get beat in space more than the Giants are comfortable with if they think they can leave him on an island.

Jonathan Martin was very unimpressive at RT last season, now he moves to LT for the Dolphins. Reports indicate that he has turned things around and is playing well on that side, but I am still skeptical and eagerly await seeing him in the preseason.

If Sam Young starts for the Bills he might be a target for teams to go after. I have never liked his balance and footwork, but he wouldn't be the first Bills OG I've seen improve from a scrub. Levitre was the first, I highly doubt Young will be the second.

The Chargers line still has a lot to prove. Rivers can't make his offensive line better the way that Eli Manning and Drew Brees do, he needs time and he needs confidence in his linemen. I am not totally sure if he'll be happy with DJ Fluker's sloppiness because I think he won't be sure whether or not he's going to get beat which may cause him to default to getting rid of the ball too soon. Having Fluker at RT may help with this type of thing because of the line of sight for right handed QB, I feel that this theory helps explain why Michael Oher plays better at RT too. When I watch QBs I try to think about the confidence they have in their linemen because I think it goes a long way in how aggressive they can be from the pocket. Shaky OL play rattles some QBs and makes they too quick on the trigger.

 

[meyerj31]

The Packers lack of additions is troubling. All they did was shuffle the same personnel around ... how is that supposed to make it any better? The same unit gave up near league leading sacks the past two seasons and are perennially below average in run blocking. Both sides of the ball are built from the line out and this is going to continually plague the Packers until strong talent is found in the draft. The last few o-line taken have not been worth their draft selection.

Offensive line talent can make mediocre backs look fantastic. Foster was clearly undervalued in the draft but he was undrafted then had success for a reason; Houston has had some fantastic lines. Emmitt Smith runs a pedestrian 4.7 40 time but was one of the NFL's leading rushers for years because the Cowboys line was ridiculously good. I wish the Packers made some moves to better their offensive line for the prime years of Rodgers' career and spent less picks on skill position players.

 

[Drop]

I do like Fluker because his size and especially length can make up for some bad footwork at times, but that lack of fluidity may take some time for Rivers to adjust to and trust.

I see the Bears in a similar situation to the Chargers in the way Cutler doesn't trust his pocket. Lots to prove for the new units trying to change that sieve culture to empower their QBs.

 

[BoltBacker]

I do like Fluker because his size and especially length can make up for some bad footwork at times, but that lack of fluidity may take some time for Rivers to adjust to and trust.

I see the Bears in a similar situation to the Chargers in the way Cutler doesn't trust his pocket. Lots to prove for the new units trying to change that sieve culture to empower their QBs.

I think they may have been similar in the past, but CHI really went out and bolstered their OL while SD just moved laterally in the offseason. I would take the CHI offensive line in a heartbeat over SD right now.

I agree with what you are saying about Fluker and ideally they would have had the luxury of starting him at RG his first year or two in the league and then transition him to RT but people have to remember that he's replacing Clary who has just been horrible for a long time. Even if Fluker plays well below average he still has the potential to be an improvement.

Anyone comparing how Rivers trusts his lineman vs Brees trusting his lineman is absolutely crazy. Over the past two seasons how many SD OLmen would even make the NO roster? One? Two at the most? That's comparing apples and oranges. It's amazing to me Rivers hasn't missed any games over the past two years but I think he may be so shell shocked at this point he doesn't have the patience to hold the ball because he's had the equivalent of orange cones in front of him(and will again this year). How many times have you seen Rivers have to run for his life directly after the snap, not slide around the pocket, but run away from a defender? He's just not that type of QB(and neither are Eli or Brees and they would look just as bad behind that line).

 

[Biabreakable]

It is interesting comparing Rivers and Brees in the pocket however because both have unique styles of delivery. Brees because he is a shorter guy and Rivers because of his sidearm.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

The Packers lack of additions is troubling. All they did was shuffle the same personnel around ... how is that supposed to make it any better? The same unit gave up near league leading sacks the past two seasons and are perennially below average in run blocking. Both sides of the ball are built from the line out and this is going to continually plague the Packers until strong talent is found in the draft. The last few o-line taken have not been worth their draft selection.

Offensive line talent can make mediocre backs look fantastic. Foster was clearly undervalued in the draft but he was undrafted then had success for a reason; Houston has had some fantastic lines. Emmitt Smith runs a pedestrian 4.7 40 time but was one of the NFL's leading rushers for years because the Cowboys line was ridiculously good. I wish the Packers made some moves to better their offensive line for the prime years of Rodgers' career and spent less picks on skill position players.

The Packers o-line always troubles me.

 

[Drop]

What's the latest on Derek Sherrod?

 

[voiceofunreason]

The Lions look awful and Stafford doesn't deal well with pressure. Ditto for the Bears.

 

[meyerj31]

What's the latest on Derek Sherrod?

The beat writers haven't had anything super positive to say about him. I think he's having a tough time coming back from the broken leg. Those kind of injuries are harder for lineman to ever recover because they have to take so much time off and then it takes so much time to put all the weight and muscle back on afterwards.

Does anyone know of an offensive lineman that came back after a broken leg and performed as good as he was before? I don't think it is very easy and that blows because we don't have a franchise LT on the roster. Honestly I think best case is Sherrod comes back and can play RT and we're stuck with below average Newhouse until it can be addressed in the draft, which is likely never because the franchise LTs go before the Packers will ever pick in the first round. Kind of a curse with having a great QB and always being in the postseason.

 

[msommer]

What's the latest on Derek Sherrod?

The beat writers haven't had anything super positive to say about him. I think he's having a tough time coming back from the broken leg. Those kind of injuries are harder for lineman to ever recover because they have to take so much time off and then it takes so much time to put all the weight and muscle back on afterwards.

Does anyone know of an offensive lineman that came back after a broken leg and performed as good as he was before? I don't think it is very easy and that blows because we don't have a franchise LT on the roster. Honestly I think best case is Sherrod comes back and can play RT and we're stuck with below average Newhouse until it can be addressed in the draft, which is likely never because the franchise LTs go before the Packers will ever pick in the first round. Kind of a curse with having a great QB and always being in the postseason.

And a GM who doesn't like trading up...

 

[Sabertooth]

The Packers lack of additions is troubling. All they did was shuffle the same personnel around ... how is that supposed to make it any better? The same unit gave up near league leading sacks the past two seasons and are perennially below average in run blocking. Both sides of the ball are built from the line out and this is going to continually plague the Packers until strong talent is found in the draft. The last few o-line taken have not been worth their draft selection.

Offensive line talent can make mediocre backs look fantastic. Foster was clearly undervalued in the draft but he was undrafted then had success for a reason; Houston has had some fantastic lines. Emmitt Smith runs a pedestrian 4.7 40 time but was one of the NFL's leading rushers for years because the Cowboys line was ridiculously good. I wish the Packers made some moves to better their offensive line for the prime years of Rodgers' career and spent less picks on skill position players.

The Packers spent two draft picks on tackles this year, one last year and first rounders the two previous years. They just haven't hit on anything.

What's the latest on Derek Sherrod?

The beat writers haven't had anything super positive to say about him. I think he's having a tough time coming back from the broken leg. Those kind of injuries are harder for lineman to ever recover because they have to take so much time off and then it takes so much time to put all the weight and muscle back on afterwards.

Does anyone know of an offensive lineman that came back after a broken leg and performed as good as he was before? I don't think it is very easy and that blows because we don't have a franchise LT on the roster. Honestly I think best case is Sherrod comes back and can play RT and we're stuck with below average Newhouse until it can be addressed in the draft, which is likely never because the franchise LTs go before the Packers will ever pick in the first round. Kind of a curse with having a great QB and always being in the postseason.

And a GM who doesn't like trading up...

Well they did recently win a Super Bowl and post a 15 win season, so there is that.

 

[meyerj31]

What's the latest on Derek Sherrod?

The beat writers haven't had anything super positive to say about him. I think he's having a tough time coming back from the broken leg. Those kind of injuries are harder for lineman to ever recover because they have to take so much time off and then it takes so much time to put all the weight and muscle back on afterwards.

Does anyone know of an offensive lineman that came back after a broken leg and performed as good as he was before? I don't think it is very easy and that blows because we don't have a franchise LT on the roster. Honestly I think best case is Sherrod comes back and can play RT and we're stuck with below average Newhouse until it can be addressed in the draft, which is likely never because the franchise LTs go before the Packers will ever pick in the first round. Kind of a curse with having a great QB and always being in the postseason.

And a GM who doesn't like trading up...

That's not true. He traded up to get Clay Matthews! How soon people forget. It's just more often the case that there's more value to be had trading back. He traded back to get Nelson, Lacy, and numerous others while recouping the value of the pick and getting some late-round guys that have also panned out.

 

[Sabertooth]

Traded back to get Jennings too.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Welcome aboard!

Just a head's-up: by far the most intelligent, insightful team chat is in the Official Ravens thread. Wait - it's either that or the dumbest, most myopic team chat. One of those anyway.....Just pay attention to what The_Man says and ignore myself & roadkill1292 (we're old, senile, and prone to anarchist thoughts that help absolutely no one).

As for O line fears, as always, I'm petrified of Baltimore's.

They patched it together last year when McKinnie decided he'd rather play than eat. And they were magnificent in the playoffs (only one sack, right?). But now Birk is gone, who seems to get a lot of credit as a leader even if he really never played very well. The Gs are fantastic, if both Yanda & Osemele are allowed to stay there. Oher is fine at RT, though he's gonna get you at least one false start per game.

That leaves C & LT. They have some "ski" kid out of Delaware on the roster at C, who they claim to love. They also picked up the C from the Colts (sorry, too lazy to look up anyone's name I don't know - he's like 26 and has started a bunch of games). I think they'll be ok there since - as I said - I thought Birk was a turnstile last year.

So, LT & Big Mc. The whole line hinges on him. If he can't play and - God help humanity & Flacco - Oher has to play LT, the Ravens are in deep doodoo.

 

[Biabreakable]

Not sure if you saw this article published back in May http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=bitontiOLrank2013

This is a pretty solid overview and the writer will likely be making improvements/update to this as well.

The Lions Oline may be a better run blocking unit than a pass blocking one. This may bite owners looking for high flying passing game from the Lions as they throw less and Stafford still likely takes a lot of sacks.

 

[Mr Non Sequitur]

Buffalo, Miami, San Diego, Dallas, New Orleans, Atlanta, Arizona for starters.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

These came up in the Blaine Gabbert discussion:

http://analyticfootball.blogspot.com/2010/09/time-in-pocket-and-effects-on-qb.html

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

Note the second article has three pages of discussion.

The third page shows the QB's who profited the most in terms of having time to throw, defined as 2.5 seconds.

I would think a lot of thing play into this. Arguably a team with a poor defense that leaves them constantly under pressure to catch up or score points could pose just as many problems as a bad offensive line. Same with a QB who just can't rid of the dang ball.

 

[SWC]

i only really care about the packers because they are my team but if i had to pick one teams o line that i do not care about it is carolina who even cares about them

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Not sure if you saw this article published back in May http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=bitontiOLrank2013

This is a pretty solid overview and the writer will likely be making improvements/update to this as well.

The Lions Oline may be a better run blocking unit than a pass blocking one. This may bite owners looking for high flying passing game from the Lions as they throw less and Stafford still likely takes a lot of sacks.

It's amazing that two teams with offenses as good as the Colts, Saints, Falcons, and Packers could have such poorly rated lines. This isn't the only place that ranks them low either. How could such good offenses thrive with such allegedly poor line play?

The Browns are 5th, the Titans 7th, the Rams 12th, the Jets 15th - same question but vice versa.

 

[bengalbuck]

The Giants and Saints offensive lines worry me a little bit, because I think they have some players that are not that good and could be problems. Eli Manning and Drew Brees are masters of getting into good play alignments and more importantly mitigating the rush with pocket awareness, Brees is especially good at it in my opinion. The Giants have some versatility allowing them to move guys around comfortably to get 5 solid starters. The Saints LT spot might be a problem with Armstead, C. Brown, and J. Smith. I am not sure why Brown hasn't played much in his career, but it must mean something that he hasn't. I do not think Armstead is very good right now. I don't think that Ben Grubbs replaced Carl Nicks impact wise, he may not seem like much of a downgrade on paper, but from what I saw he was. Chris Snee has declined as a player, he still has good stretches though. Jahri Evans is the only dominant player on either offensive line. I don't like Justin Pugh very much and I think he'll get beat in space more than the Giants are comfortable with if they think they can leave him on an island.

Jonathan Martin was very unimpressive at RT last season, now he moves to LT for the Dolphins. Reports indicate that he has turned things around and is playing well on that side, but I am still skeptical and eagerly await seeing him in the preseason.

If Sam Young starts for the Bills he might be a target for teams to go after. I have never liked his balance and footwork, but he wouldn't be the first Bills OG I've seen improve from a scrub. Levitre was the first, I highly doubt Young will be the second.

The Chargers line still has a lot to prove. Rivers can't make his offensive line better the way that Eli Manning and Drew Brees do, he needs time and he needs confidence in his linemen. I am not totally sure if he'll be happy with DJ Fluker's sloppiness because I think he won't be sure whether or not he's going to get beat which may cause him to default to getting rid of the ball too soon. Having Fluker at RT may help with this type of thing because of the line of sight for right handed QB, I feel that this theory helps explain why Michael Oher plays better at RT too. When I watch QBs I try to think about the confidence they have in their linemen because I think it goes a long way in how aggressive they can be from the pocket. Shaky OL play rattles some QBs and makes they too quick on the trigger.

Great post. Only thing I disagree on is Pugh. He is a real technician and has great feet. I think he will overcome any potential issues with length and be a very good starter almost immediately. He was a guy who a lot of teams picking later in the first round were hoping would fall to them. An OL can overcome one physical weakness if he is above average in other attributes and is elite in his preparation and understanding of the game. Andrew Whitworth has done that with the Bengals for example. I think Pugh will do the same.

 

[bengalbuck]

Welcome aboard!

Just a head's-up: by far the most intelligent, insightful team chat is in the Official Ravens thread. Wait - it's either that or the dumbest, most myopic team chat. One of those anyway.....Just pay attention to what The_Man says and ignore myself & roadkill1292 (we're old, senile, and prone to anarchist thoughts that help absolutely no one).

As for O line fears, as always, I'm petrified of Baltimore's.

They patched it together last year when McKinnie decided he'd rather play than eat. And they were magnificent in the playoffs (only one sack, right?). But now Birk is gone, who seems to get a lot of credit as a leader even if he really never played very well. The Gs are fantastic, if both Yanda & Osemele are allowed to stay there. Oher is fine at RT, though he's gonna get you at least one false start per game.

That leaves C & LT. They have some "ski" kid out of Delaware on the roster at C, who they claim to love. They also picked up the C from the Colts (sorry, too lazy to look up anyone's name I don't know - he's like 26 and has started a bunch of games). I think they'll be ok there since - as I said - I thought Birk was a turnstile last year.

So, LT & Big Mc. The whole line hinges on him. If he can't play and - God help humanity & Flacco - Oher has to play LT, the Ravens are in deep doodoo.

Gino Gradkowski is the Center. He is the younger brother of former Bengal, current Steelers backup QB Bruce Gradkowski.

Would not surprise me if he stepped in and played well. High character, smart and great work ethic. Solid physical tools also.

 

[Biabreakable]

Not sure if you saw this article published back in May http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=bitontiOLrank2013

This is a pretty solid overview and the writer will likely be making improvements/update to this as well.

The Lions Oline may be a better run blocking unit than a pass blocking one. This may bite owners looking for high flying passing game from the Lions as they throw less and Stafford still likely takes a lot of sacks.

It's amazing that two teams with offenses as good as the Colts, Saints, Falcons, and Packers could have such poorly rated lines. This isn't the only place that ranks them low either. How could such good offenses thrive with such allegedly poor line play?

The Browns are 5th, the Titans 7th, the Rams 12th, the Jets 15th - same question but vice versa.

It is a good question and what you posted previously may have some of those answers.

What I see in most of those QBs is some mobility, except for perhaps Ryan. How Matt ranked the Falcons gave me some pause. Keep in mind that this was an early look at situations, there have been some signings and so on since that was written.

So I cannot fully explain the Falcons. However Luck and Rodgers are both very mobile QBs. Despite that they both took a lot of sacks because their Olines are below average. Brees is pretty mobile as well. He reminds me a bit of Doug Flutie the way he moves around and sets in the pocket.

The only thing common with all 4 of these teams is that they have elite QB who can at least get rid of the ball if they cannot escape the pass rush. None of these Olines did very well in supporting the running game either.

 

[netnalp]

Giants starting C Baas and RG Snee were both still recovering from surgeries, so they mainly walked the sidelines at OTA's. I'm concerned they might not be ready by camp or will play the season less than healthy.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Giants were tied with the Patriots with 58 runs of over 10 yards. 3rd best total in 2012. http://www.steelersdepot.com/2013/05/2012-nfl-stats-team-explosive-plays-produced-by-running-backs-fullbacks/

A lot of those runs were executed by Bradshaw. Will Wilson/Brown be able to keep this near the top of the league? Bradshaw could get a lot of yards after contact at times besides being very elusive and reading blocks well.I do think this is a very positive sign however that the Giants offensive line improved in 2012 compared to 2011. To be honest I did not much like Justin Pugh as a Oline prospect but he will likely help as well.