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Which team will win the Super Bowl? (1 Viewer)

Since several posts have been directed at me, let me ask this.Q: Is the Carolina defense that much better than the ones the Pats have played?The Pats went 8-1 against Top 10 defenses (based on points allowed). The Panthers were 4-2.Q: Is Carolina's ground game that much better than the teams NE has already faced?In 18 games, the Pats only allowed over 100 yards rushing in 4 games. The only 100 yard rusher was Portis.Q: Will the Panthers be able to move the ball through the air?The Pats have shut down the passing attack (see below). The Patriots did not allow a single WR to total over 100 yards receiving in any game this year.Q: Will the Panthers offense be able to move the ball and put points on the board, especially Steve Smith?That seems to be the $64,000 question . . .PATS STATS FROM THEIR LAST 10 GAMES (INCLUDING PLAYOFFS):- 10-0 record- 13.7 ppg (including 2 games vs Ind and games vs Den and Ten)- 186.4 yards passing allowed per game (including 2 starts by Manning)- 78.4 yards rushing allowed per game (including Portis, RW, Taylor, DDavis, Henry, Edge twice, Martin, George)- 262.8 total yards allowed per game- 50.4 yards allowed per game to opponent's WR1 (Harrison twice, Galloway, AJohnson, Chambers, RSmith, JSmith, SMoss, Moulds, Mason)

 
The Patriots will win because Bill Belicheck has had two weeks to analyze the Panthers offense; the Panthers will be doing something if they even manage to score a lousy field goal in this game. :yes:
I am assuming than that Belicheck could coach the Barcelona Dragons to a victory as well. Or maybe even a college team.As good a coach as BB is, this is the NFL. He can't reinvent the wheel. He will have a good game plan I am sure, but so will the coaches on the other side. In the three playoff games that Carolina has won, each time they used a new or different wrinkle that helped them to win. In the Phily game for instance, Fox employed the "full house" backfield that was quite succesful early in the game (I think we will see this again against the 3-4 of the Pats). Don't underestimate the coaching ability of those on the other side of the ball.I think Carolina is going to win because they have the better O-Line and D-line, and football is won at the line of scrimmage. They will have success running the ball, and they will force at least one crucial turnover to seal the deal.
 
1. Probably not all.2. I think so. The Panthers have a commitment to the run and will not give up on the run unless they get way behind early. Against the Eagles, we saw the Wishbone. Perhaps Fox will break out the old double wing against the Pats.3. Depends on if they can move the ball on the ground. ;) 4. We will see on Sunday night. How many points are you talking about anyway? If the Panthers need to score more than 20 pts to win, they are going to be in trouble. I think they will be able to scratch out 3 scores from their offense. Will that be enough? We will see Sunday night. The real question is can they keep the Pats under 20?Let's be honest about the stats. They are fun to look at and play around with, but stats really are for losers. :P

 
I am one of the people that said, “The Panthers passing game is better than most people think”1. I am aware that the Colts have a better passing attack than the Panthers.2. I am aware that the Patriots shutdown the Colts passing attack in the AFC Championship game3. The Panthers have hit more “big plays” in the passing game than the Colts.I just don’t think that 1 and 2 are related. The Colts are passing team. So the Patriots #1 priority would be to try to take away the pass.The Panthers are a running team. The Patriots #1 priority will be to stop the run.To stop the run the Patriots will have to put 8 men in the box. With 8 in the box one of the receivers is going to left in man to man coverage and the Panthers have been able to hit “big plays” because of it.It happened all season long against the Panthers, which is why I listed #3.The Panthers commitment to the run opens up their passing game.521 rushing attempts for the season, only 270 passing attempts.Conversely the Colts were 453 rush/ 569 passStyles make the fight :boxing:

 
I think the Panthers will win because:1. They will win the war in the trenches on both sides of the ball.2. Tom Brady has been slumping recently. Against the Titans he averaged under 5 yards per attempt. Against the Colts he looked even worse. The Colts defense is sad. He should have lit them up. Instead, Brady threw 5-6 INTs, but the Colts only caught 1. And that 1 was a terrible pass in the endzone. I don't care if he led the NFL in TD passes two years ago. Its about what are you doing for me NOW. Brady is slumping NOW.3. The Panthers have reversed their fortunes in the turnover department. Again, its about what are you doing for me NOW. The Panthers' defense will give their offense a short field a couple of times, leading to easier scores. The Panthers WON'T be able to sustain long drives all day, but good field position will overcome it.Sure, I could be wrong. I don't feel confident in this prediction as I was when I thought the 49ers would beat the Chargers. I think its a close game that the Panthers win.
1. Not a chance. Especially NE's D on their O. Their D line will be neutralized through scheme. 2. Has Brady had statistical dreams? Only if winning is what matters. He outplayed both co-MVP's, and his team advanced. Brady threw 1 pick. Check the stats. See, it only counts as an INT if somebody catches it. Slumping? Yeah, it's obvious, with the 14 game winning streak, and the 1 pick in 10 home games. He's slumping. 3. Yes, Quincy, McNabb and Bulger are known for their game management, and protection of the ball. :rolleyes: And, if you're so confident, why haven't we seen you in the sig line thread?
 
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the Panthers will be doing something if they even manage to score a lousy field goal in this game.
I've now decided to make it my mission to post the below quotation every time someone says the Super Bowl will be low scoring b/c of the Pats D or that the Panthers' O can't move the ball and score:
Do NOT underestimate the Panthers O - they have scored at least 2 offensive TDs in 10 of their last 11 games against every type of defense. They were able to run the score up on the Cowboys' defense. Also, the Pats have won by less than 7 points in all their road victories except one (versus a lifeless Eagles team in week 2) - I like the Pats D a LOT, but an excellent case can be made that it is TRULY EXCEPTIONAL at home, but beatable away from Foxboro.
 
The Panthers are a running team. The Patriots #1 priority will be to stop the run.To stop the run the Patriots will have to put 8 men in the box.
That's where your logic breaks down.The 3-4 defense has Ted Washington playing "two-gap", essentially tying up two inside gaps where the back cannot find a hole. In essence, a good two-gap NT can take the place of two lineman in the running game as a result.The Pats haven't had to put "8 in the box" all season to stop the run based on their scheme and personnel. They didn't do it against Ricky Williams, Fred Taylor, Edge or anyone else as their "base" defense.
 
Smith is a tough cover for anyone, even Law.
More so than Marvin Harrison or Derrick Mason? :rolleyes:
Well....... yes and no. He is a tougher cover in a sense, because Carolina is a better running team and much more committed to the run then Ten and Ind. Car will run the ball and try to force NE to bring up run support. If carolina is successful in doing this then Smith becomes and incredibly tough cover. The guy can flat out fly and is probably the quickest WR is the game. If Belichick can stop the run with his standard def set it will be tough for the Panthers. However, I don't thiink NE will be able to do that. Which makes Smith tough to deal with.We shall see how it plays out.
 
Just curious why you feel they "should have" lost to the Rams?
I feel that the Rams essentially gave them the game with poor play calling at the end of regulation. They had 3 shots at the end zone, or 2 if they played conservatively. I had no doubt that they would beat both Philly and Dallas. I did think that they would run more on Philly, as Phillys run D is pathetic.
 
PATS STATS FROM THEIR LAST 10 GAMES (INCLUDING PLAYOFFS):- 10-0 record- 13.7 ppg (including 2 games vs Ind and games vs Den and Ten)- 186.4 yards passing allowed per game (including 2 starts by Manning)- 78.4 yards rushing allowed per game (including Portis, RW, Taylor, DDavis, Henry, Edge twice, Martin, George)- 262.8 total yards allowed per game- 50.4 yards allowed per game to opponent's WR1 (Harrison twice, Galloway, AJohnson, Chambers, RSmith, JSmith, SMoss, Moulds, Mason)
Good stats, but you neglected something: 7 of those games were at home, only three on the road. I don't think anyone seriously questions that the Pats would probably beat the Panthers fairly convincingly (though that might mean only a 6-10 point margin of victory) if this game were in Foxboro. Scores in the road games:Hou: 23-20 (comeback victory in OT)Ind: 38-34 (and almost lost without their last minute the goalline stand)NYJets: 21-16 (struggling offense, rock solid defensive effort, picks in the late thrd and early fourth kept away a Jets rally)Avg. margin of victory - 4.0Avg. points surrendered: 23.3They gave up 109 to the Jets on the ground, 212 passing98 on the ground to the Colts, 272 passing89 rushing and 80 (!!) passing to the Texans (and almost lost the game)These stats tell me a couple things - the Pats scoring defense is nowhere near as good outside Foxboro, and teams do not need to have significant numbers against the Pats to still have a shot at winning the game. I expect the Panthers to keep it close all game long and to have surprising ability to move the ball. I still think the Pats will win the game, but I don't think it'll be domination.
 
Smelvin, to be fair in your "road defense" analysis, you need to also look at the Pats OFFENSE in road games.At Jets: 271 yardsAt Texans: 472 yardsAt Indy: 282 yardsAt Broncos: 419 yardsAt Miami: 332 yardsAt Redskins: 387 yardsAt Philly: 309 yardsAt Buffalo: 239 yardsThe Pats are better on the road in terms of offensive production than they are at home. Their road average ypg: 339.I didn't do their home averages but their OVERALL ypg is only 315. That would indicate that the Patriots only averaged around 291 yards per game at home. That's a pretty significant difference. Hell, if you take out the Buffalo game, they averaged 353 ypg on the road. Got to look at it BOTH ways...

 
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Smelvin, to be fair in your "road defense" analysis, you need to also look at the Pats OFFENSE in road games.At Jets: 271 yardsAt Texans: 472 yardsAt Indy: 282 yardsAt Broncos: 419 yardsAt Miami: 332 yardsAt Redskins: 387 yardsAt Philly: 309 yardsAt Buffalo: 239 yardsThe Pats are better on the road in terms of offensive production than they are at home. Their road average ypg: 339.I didn't do their home averages but their OVERALL ypg is only 315. That would indicate that the Patriots only averaged around 291 yards per game at home. That's a pretty significant difference. Hell, if you take out the Buffalo game, they averaged 353 ypg on the road. Got to look at it BOTH ways...
Wokhose, Yds/game was not my point- Anarchy selected the last ten games, so I limited myself to those.Yards are irrelevant b/c I was looking at pts/game and margin of victory to make the point that the Pats scoring D is not as fierce on the road as at home. I also made the point that teams are able to stick with the Pats on the road better than in Foxboro. A 3, 4 and 5 point margin of victory in their road games over the last ten games while still holding offenses down in terms of yardage is a good indicator that you don't need to run up yards to have offensive success versus the Pats.In fact, Houston had only 80 net yards passing and 88 net yards rushing and they took the Pats to OT.The Pats went 3-2 on the road before the bye - a blowout versus Philly, a 6 point win in Miami that was closer than 6 points indicate (wasn't that OT, too?), a 4 point victory in Denver, a loss to Washington and their blowout loss in Buffalo to open the year.IMO, the Pats SCORING defense is not as fierce outside of Foxboro, regardless of whether they keep the yardage down. Like I said - Pats are more likely to win th egame, but the Panthers are likely to cover 7 points.
 
The Patriots will win because Bill Belichick has had two weeks to devise a scheme against Jake Jake Delhomme and the rest of the Panthers offense.

 
PATS STATS FROM THEIR LAST 10 GAMES (INCLUDING PLAYOFFS):- 10-0 record- 13.7 ppg (including 2 games vs Ind and games vs Den and Ten)- 186.4 yards passing allowed per game (including 2 starts by Manning)- 78.4 yards rushing allowed per game (including Portis, RW, Taylor, DDavis, Henry, Edge twice, Martin, George)- 262.8 total yards allowed per game- 50.4 yards allowed per game to opponent's WR1 (Harrison twice, Galloway, AJohnson, Chambers, RSmith, JSmith, SMoss, Moulds, Mason)
Good stats, but you neglected something: 7 of those games were at home, only three on the road. I don't think anyone seriously questions that the Pats would probably beat the Panthers fairly convincingly (though that might mean only a 6-10 point margin of victory) if this game were in Foxboro. Scores in the road games:Hou: 23-20 (comeback victory in OT)Ind: 38-34 (and almost lost without their last minute the goalline stand)NYJets: 21-16 (struggling offense, rock solid defensive effort, picks in the late thrd and early fourth kept away a Jets rally)Avg. margin of victory - 4.0Avg. points surrendered: 23.3They gave up 109 to the Jets on the ground, 212 passing98 on the ground to the Colts, 272 passing89 rushing and 80 (!!) passing to the Texans (and almost lost the game)These stats tell me a couple things - the Pats scoring defense is nowhere near as good outside Foxboro, and teams do not need to have significant numbers against the Pats to still have a shot at winning the game. I expect the Panthers to keep it close all game long and to have surprising ability to move the ball. I still think the Pats will win the game, but I don't think it'll be domination.
It's hard to fault NE for playing their last 3 games at home. Thus why teams fight all season for homefield advantage through the playoffs.Using your sample of 3 games is too small to really come to any conclusions. Certainly the Pats home field advantage goes out the window playing in Houston, but they did not play any games at neutral sites, so the SB is not exactly a road game.Since the Pats have not had quite the same level of success defensively on the road, they in turn opened up the offense more to account for it.On the road, they gave up 21.5 ppg vs 11.2 at home. They averaged 25.2 ppg scored at home and 22.4 on the road.25.2 - 11.2 = 14.0 margin of victory at home22.4 - 21.5 ppg = 0.9 margin of victory on roadHowever, that last one is dramatically skewed by the blowout loss in Buffalo (31-0). Not counting that, the numbers would be 25.6 ppg scored - 21.1 ppg allowed = 4.5 margin of victory.The teams that did best against the Pats scoring-wise did much better passing the ball than rushing it, so Carolina better have factored that into their gameplan if they want to move the ball.And LOL to the Pats for amassing 472 yards of total offense against the Texans while giving up 164 and STILL needing OT to win.
 
Why are you such a homer? Everyone saw the numerous times Colts defenders had their hands on the ball - only to simply DROP it. I say 5-6 because one of them really wasn't catchable - one of them came when the defender batted the ball up in the air down near the goal line, hoping another Colt could get it. I'm being LENIENT and not calling it a straight 6.Quotes from the game thread:http://footballguys.net/forum/index.php?ac...&hl=colts&st=70#########BGP: Colts can't make the big play. The colts' defense has dropped an interception on both of the Patriots' first two drives. The Patriots' defense, meanwhile, held onto the one interception opportunity they had. #########Vivian Darkbloom:Brady 2, Manning 0.And Brady has made more mistakes.He's just gotten away with them. #########Vivian Darkbloom:LOL. Pats make the spectacular INT (Ty Law), Colts can't hold on to the easy ones. #########BGP: Colts defense has now had the oppotunity to intercept 4 Brady passes, and have none. Patriots' defense is 2/2. (Note: They later pick Brady in the end zone, so they went 1 for 5)#########
BGP, I have already conceded there were 2-3 additional Brady passes that could have been picked off but you have never even once acknowledged the 2 end zone drops by Fauria.You talk a lot of trash and yet you don't have the guts to show in the Sig line thread?You go on and on about Brady playing poorly but offer no projection when challenged on it?IMO Brady should be good for for 2 td's and 200+ yards and I need fresh sig line material so what say you?
 
I am one of the people that said, “The Panthers passing game is better than most people think”1. I am aware that the Colts have a better passing attack than the Panthers.2. I am aware that the Patriots shutdown the Colts passing attack in the AFC Championship game3. The Panthers have hit more “big plays” in the passing game than the Colts.I just don’t think that 1 and 2 are related. The Colts are passing team. So the Patriots #1 priority would be to try to take away the pass.The Panthers are a running team. The Patriots #1 priority will be to stop the run.To stop the run the Patriots will have to put 8 men in the box. With 8 in the box one of the receivers is going to left in man to man coverage and the Panthers have been able to hit “big plays” because of it.It happened all season long against the Panthers, which is why I listed #3.The Panthers commitment to the run opens up their passing game.521 rushing attempts for the season, only 270 passing attempts.Conversely the Colts were 453 rush/ 569 passStyles make the fight :boxing:
Best argument I have heard so far in this thread ...I have been lurking, trying to find info that will help me on my $500 decision this weekend. :)
 
I hate to say it but the Pats. NE will run blitz to slow down Davis and make Delhomme beat them which he can't. NE will dink and dunk down the field and throw some crossing patterns and try to hit the seam. Pats 27 - Cats 13. The only chance the Cats have is to get ahead early. The only issue with that is name me the last time NE was behind in a game this year?

 
The only chance the Cats have is to get ahead early. The only issue with that is name me the last time NE was behind in a game this year?
During their winning streak, the Pats were only behind vs Ten (Week 5)vs Mia (Week 7)vs Den (Week 9)and Hou (Week 12)
 
Which team will win? New England, by the score of 30-17

Why? Because New England's defense will stop Carolina's offense more frequently than Carolina's defense will stop New England's offense. Pretty in-depth analysis, eh?

 
Since the Pats have not had quite the same level of success defensively on the road, they in turn opened up the offense more to account for it.On the road, they gave up 21.5 ppg vs 11.2 at home. They averaged 25.2 ppg scored at home and 22.4 on the road.25.2 - 11.2 = 14.0 margin of victory at home22.4 - 21.5 ppg = 0.9 margin of victory on roadHowever, that last one is dramatically skewed by the blowout loss in Buffalo (31-0). Not counting that, the numbers would be 25.6 ppg scored - 21.1 ppg allowed = 4.5 margin of victory.The teams that did best against the Pats scoring-wise did much better passing the ball than rushing it, so Carolina better have factored that into their gameplan if they want to move the ball.And LOL to the Pats for amassing 472 yards of total offense against the Texans while giving up 164 and STILL needing OT to win.
Throw out Buffalo on the road, must then throw out the Philly win on the road. Same thing - and the numbers will even out - that is manipulative theory at its finest to toss week one, but not week two. BTW - I agree that NEITHER week one nor week two are reflective of the Pats' season, but week three onward IS, and the bye week forward is reflective of the Pats team we will see in the Bowl.I was using the 3 games on the road since the bye because YOU restricted the pool to the last 10 games - I was certainly not "faulting" them for winning home games - I was just using those numbers as part of the way the defense is playing at home versus on the road - something Pats fans seem to lose sight of since they have played so many consecutive defensively dominated games in Foxboro.As you stated 450+ yards on offense and give up 160 on defense should be a blowout, but they needed OT. Also, as you pointed out, .9 (not even a point) margin of victory for the team on the road versus much more (14) at home. Those numbers help me make my point - I agree that 3 games is too small a pool. When you open up the pool (as I did later in the thread) it proves my point even more convincingly.Finally, their home margin of victory is a bit skewed by their shutout wins v. Dallas and Miami (in a blizzard) and ability to hold a gimpy McNair and rattled Manning to low scores in the freezing Foxboro weather. I would argue that three wins versus southern teams and one versus a dome team in Foxboro weather def. helped skew the numbers in their favor. Houston will be slight chance of rain and 50+ degrees.While the Pats don't have a "road" game (ie - in somone else's stadium) in the Bowl, they certainly do NOT have a HOME game going on. To me, this means their D will give up closer to the 21.5 average given up on the road than the 11.2 average given up at home. One more convincing number to the Pats on the road are not as fierce of a SCORING defense as at home (which has always been my point).I think the Pats win, but I don't think it will be convincingly, and I think the Panthers will be able to score on the Pats D. 14-20 points on offense, and if there are any Panther defensive/ST scores, or a lot of TOs caused, the Pats O better be on their game. (Oh, and I disagree with your "opening the offense more" on the road theory - they scored less on the road than at home)
 
And LOL to the Pats for amassing 472 yards of total offense against the Texans while giving up 164 and STILL needing OT to win.
Another "interesting" thing I just noticed about the Pats regular season was the 31-0 loss at Buffalo to start the season and the 31-0 win at home vs Buffalo to end the season.
 
Another "interesting" thing I just noticed about the Pats regular season was the 31-0 loss at Buffalo to start the season and the 31-0 win at home vs Buffalo to end the season.
I guess you weren't watching much Sportscenter the last week of the season then, huh? ;) I think they made that point about a hundred times during WC week and they hyped it up bug time heading into the game. Berman especially was in his old "circle the wagons" mode when talking about the revenge of exactly 31 points and a shutout.
 
Since the Pats have not had quite the same level of success defensively on the road, they in turn opened up the offense more to account for it.On the road, they gave up 21.5 ppg vs 11.2 at home.  They averaged 25.2 ppg scored at home and 22.4 on the road.25.2 - 11.2 = 14.0 margin of victory at home22.4 - 21.5 ppg = 0.9 margin of victory on roadHowever, that last one is dramatically skewed by the blowout loss in Buffalo (31-0).  Not counting that, the numbers would be 25.6 ppg scored - 21.1 ppg allowed = 4.5 margin of victory.The teams that did best against the Pats scoring-wise did much better passing the ball than rushing it, so Carolina better have factored that into their gameplan if they want to move the ball.And LOL to the Pats for amassing 472 yards of total offense against the Texans while giving up 164 and STILL needing OT to win.
Throw out Buffalo on the road, must then throw out the Philly win on the road. Same thing - and the numbers will even out - that is manipulative theory at its finest to toss week one, but not week two. BTW - I agree that NEITHER week one nor week two are reflective of the Pats' season, but week three onward IS, and the bye week forward is reflective of the Pats team we will see in the Bowl.I was using the 3 games on the road since the bye because YOU restricted the pool to the last 10 games - I was certainly not "faulting" them for winning home games - I was just using those numbers as part of the way the defense is playing at home versus on the road - something Pats fans seem to lose sight of since they have played so many consecutive defensively dominated games in Foxboro.As you stated 450+ yards on offense and give up 160 on defense should be a blowout, but they needed OT. Also, as you pointed out, .9 (not even a point) margin of victory for the team on the road versus much more (14) at home. Those numbers help me make my point - I agree that 3 games is too small a pool. When you open up the pool (as I did later in the thread) it proves my point even more convincingly.Finally, their home margin of victory is a bit skewed by their shutout wins v. Dallas and Miami (in a blizzard) and ability to hold a gimpy McNair and rattled Manning to low scores in the freezing Foxboro weather. I would argue that three wins versus southern teams and one versus a dome team in Foxboro weather def. helped skew the numbers in their favor. Houston will be slight chance of rain and 50+ degrees.While the Pats don't have a "road" game (ie - in somone else's stadium) in the Bowl, they certainly do NOT have a HOME game going on. To me, this means their D will give up closer to the 21.5 average given up on the road than the 11.2 average given up at home. One more convincing number to the Pats on the road are not as fierce of a SCORING defense as at home (which has always been my point).I think the Pats win, but I don't think it will be convincingly, and I think the Panthers will be able to score on the Pats D. 14-20 points on offense, and if there are any Panther defensive/ST scores, or a lot of TOs caused, the Pats O better be on their game. (Oh, and I disagree with your "opening the offense more" on the road theory - they scored less on the road than at home)
Disclaimer, there is no way around the fact we are ALL comparing apples to oranges but we won't let that stop us ;)
While the Pats don't have a "road" game (ie - in somone else's stadium) in the Bowl, they certainly do NOT have a HOME game going on. To me, this means their D will give up closer to the 21.5 average given up on the road than the 11.2 average given up at home
And this makes perfect sense if you really believe home field is the most or even a very important factor in determining how many points NE will give up. I tend to think there are many important variables involved not the least of which would be the quality of the opponents offense. For instance I do not believe the Car offense can be fairly compared with that of Indy or Den.NE's road game against MIA might be a much better comparison since Car and Mia are fairly similar. Car much like Mia is a strong defensive team with a run oriented focus on offense. I do believe Car's OL is significantly better than Mia's as is (to a lesser extent) their Defensive front 4. However, those 2 advantages are off set by Car's secondary which IMO is not nearly as good as Mia's.IMO, NE's defense is quite capable of containing Car's run dominated offense while NE's pass dominated offense is a tuff matchup for Car's secondary which IMO is the weakest area of their defense. Obviously anything can happen but in looking at the strengths of these 2 teams and how they match up it seems likely that Car will have a much tuffer time running the ball on NE than NE will throwing the ball on Car. IMO, IF Tommyboy doesn't turn the ball over Car has little chance of winning and NE will win going away. I will admit that is a big if and 1 or 2 mistakes could change things dramatically.
 
During their winning streak, the Pats were only behind and Hou (Week 12)
That is right it was the Houston game in Week 12 until Brady threw a TD pass to Graham with .40 left to go in the 4th to send the game into OT. That means that the Patsies have played over 7 games or 420 minutes tied or in front. Let me repeat that, IN EXCESS OF 420 OR 7 GAMES AHEAD OR TIED. THAT IS %@!%* UNBELIEVABLE. I will bet into a stat like that ever time I have a chance. This my friends is why the only chance the Cats have is getting ahead early and I don't see this happening. Patsies get ahead and will squeeze the life out of the Cats. It could get ugly quickly.
 
IN EXCESS OF 420 OR 7 GAMES AHEAD OR TIED. THAT IS %@!%* UNBELIEVABLE. I will bet into a stat like that ever time I have a chance

With all due respect, you and many many others will do the same as the winning streak and all these stats will keep the Patriot trap building until it all comes crashing down!!!! :P

 
IN EXCESS OF 420 OR 7 GAMES AHEAD OR TIED. THAT IS %@!%* UNBELIEVABLE. I will bet into a stat like that ever time I have a chance

With all due respect, you and many many others will do the same as the winning streak and all these stats will keep the Patriot trap building until it all comes crashing down!!!! :P
With all due respect, Pats fans have been hearing that from Colts fans, Titans fans, Jet fans, Cowboy fans... :P

 
I guess you weren't watching much Sportscenter the last week of the season then, huh? ;)
:bag: Well, it was an interesting, and new, point to me at least. ;) My viewing of Sportscenter has greatly declined recently so I hadn't seen or heard about this. Really, the only time I find myself watching ESPN now is to watch an actual game or bowling. :bag:
 
With all due respect, Pats fans have been hearing that from Colts fans, Titans fans, Jet fans, Cowboy fans...

:P
With all due respect, the Pats WILL be trailing in a game at some point and the Pats WILL lose a game to somebody. Not sure when or who or even if it will be this Sunday. But the fact is that the Pats will lose again. So the Panthers do have that going for them. :P

 
Houston will be slight chance of rain and 50+ degrees.
For starters, there will be no rain, as Houston's stadium can be open or closed up with a dome.We're not covering any new ground and stats don't really matter anymore anyway, but I did a breakdown of the Pats last 6 home games and last 6 road games (essentially tossing out their games from September).Over that stretch, they did score more on the road, but there are caveats.- The Pats played in the artic weather at home- They played two playoff games at home- They played some strong defenses (Ten, Buf, Jac, Mia, Dal)at home- Their defense actually scored a lot of points at home (so some of the scoring credit should go to the defense not the offense)- Their defense over was so dominant that the offense was not forced to do much.- The Pats were never behind in any of the home games (all 6 of them)- The Pats WERE behind in 3 of the 6 road gamesThat being said, here are the breakdowns:HOME:20.5 ppg/198.8 yards passing/94.3 yards rushing/293.1 total yardsAWAY:24.7 ppg/268.7 yards passing/91.8 yards rushing/360.5 total yardsLook for Brady to start airing it out in Houston.
 
Houston will be slight chance of rain and 50+ degrees.
For starters, there will be no rain, as Houston's stadium can be open or closed up with a dome.We're not covering any new ground and stats don't really matter anymore anyway, but I did a breakdown of the Pats last 6 home games and last 6 road games (essentially tossing out their games from September).Over that stretch, they did score more on the road, but there are caveats.- The Pats played in the artic weather at home- They played two playoff games at home- They played some strong defenses (Ten, Buf, Jac, Mia, Dal)at home- Their defense actually scored a lot of points at home (so some of the scoring credit should go to the defense not the offense)- Their defense over was so dominant that the offense was not forced to do much.- The Pats were never behind in any of the home games (all 6 of them)- The Pats WERE behind in 3 of the 6 road gamesThat being said, here are the breakdowns:HOME:20.5 ppg/198.8 yards passing/94.3 yards rushing/293.1 total yardsAWAY:24.7 ppg/268.7 yards passing/91.8 yards rushing/360.5 total yardsLook for Brady to start airing it out in Houston.
I am confused, you say "stats don't really matter anymore anyway" then go on to show stats that support your conclusion that Brady will air it out. :wall: :wall: :wall: I totally agree with your conclusion just not your statement of stats don't matter :shock: :shock: :shock:
 
I am confused, you say "stats don't really matter anymore anyway" then go on to show stats that support your conclusion that Brady will air it out. :wall: :wall: :wall: I totally agree with your conclusion just not your statement of stats don't matter :shock: :shock: :shock:
I have stated several times that "stats really don't matter" because stats don't win football games, players win football games. Big plays win football games. Game plans win football games. A single game is a very small sample size, so anything can (and will) happen.How you got to the Super Bowl really doesn't matter either--the fact that you got there is what counts, not what your stats were.HOWEVER . . . the stats often can glean some insight into what MIGHT happen.I have been spouting off different stats in all the SB threads. For example, the Pats haven't allowed more than 116 yards rushing all season. Does that number in itself necessarily mean anything? No. Carolina could go out and rush for 180 yards.IMO, stats can indicate the LIKELIHOOD of something to happen, but they certainly cannot EXCLUDE things from happening.You can (and should) use stats to justify your position on something, but that does not mean that that outcome is etched in stone.
 
With all due respect, Pats fans have been hearing that from Colts fans, Titans fans, Jet fans, Cowboy fans...

:P
With all due respect, the Pats WILL be trailing in a game at some point and the Pats WILL lose a game to somebody. Not sure when or who or even if it will be this Sunday. But the fact is that the Pats will lose again. So the Panthers do have that going for them. :P
Ah, the old "Coin landing on heads 99 times in a row is BOUND to come up tails on the 100th flip, right?" argument. :P

 
With all due respect, Pats fans have been hearing that from Colts fans, Titans fans, Jet fans, Cowboy fans...

:P
With all due respect, the Pats WILL be trailing in a game at some point and the Pats WILL lose a game to somebody. Not sure when or who or even if it will be this Sunday. But the fact is that the Pats will lose again. So the Panthers do have that going for them. :P
Ah, the old "Coin landing on heads 99 times in a row is BOUND to come up tails on the 100th flip, right?" argument. :P
:P :sarcasmon: Yah - the argument's weak. Are you REALLY saying the odds favor the Pats trailing in a game or actually LOSING!! I'm sorry - those odds aren't goods - the Pats will NEVER lose again. :off:

Anarchy - I agree that stats are meaningless b/c we are in the ultimate definition in the Super Bowl of "any given Sunday." That said, base don the numbers as support, I EXPECT the Pats to both have more offense and less scoring defense. Why? Because it seems when they are away from Foxboro they are not as able to prevent scoring as they are in Foxboro - and I think you nailed a couple things, but most importantly: arctic weather the last month+ - and in November - has really helped their stats.

Panthers' offense gets no credit. While they are NOT the Broncos or Colts, they ARE as good offensively as the Pats. And they are able to control the game on the ground, or allow Jake to do a Brady impression through the air. The offense has MORE skill at RB and WR than the Pats. If the Pats are expected to be able to move the ball on the Panther D, why not the other way?

 
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Panthers' offense gets no credit. While they are NOT the Broncos or Colts, they ARE as good offensively as the Pats.
Smelvin I must respectfully dissagree and IMO this is where many are missing the boat on this game. CAR's offense is not nearly as good as NE's, at least not if you take a serious look at the schedule each team played.During the regular season:CAR had the luxury of playing bottom ten (scoring) defense's 7 times while only playing top ten defenses 4 times (lost 2 of them).NE played only 3 games against bottom ten (scoring) defense's while playing top ten defense's 9 times winning 8 of them.So CAR had more than twice as many games against the cellar dwellers AND less than half as many against the iron.NE has a better offense than most realize and has faced and beaten several teams with as good or better defense than Car. Contrast that with the simple fact Car has not faced or beaten teams with as good or better defense than NE. The exceptions being TB and DAL who they lost to once and beat once. But while Dal is an offensively challenged run dominated team that played into Car's strength NE is not.
And they are able to control the game on the ground, or allow Jake to do a Brady impression through the air
While possible it is not likely either of these things will happen given the fact NE has played strong run defense all year and Jake would have to successfully divert from the offense he has been running all year. Could he (they) do it? It is possible but it sure as heck aint likely.
The offense has MORE skill at RB and WR than the Pats.
Clearly CAR has more skill at running back and running the ball but I beg to differ on them having MORE skill at WR and receiving. Car has Jake, Mush, Smith, Proehl & Wiggins and their top 2 rec's may be a little better than any of NE's rec's but that is more than made up for by the edge NE enjoys in depth, QB and in their DB's. Brady, Brown, Branch, Givens, Johnson, Ward Fauria & Graham are collectively much, much better than Car's passing attack.
If the Pats are expected to be able to move the ball on the Panther D, why not the other way?
In a nutshell it will be because Car is a run oriented team playing into a defensive strength of NE. While NE is a pass oriented team playing into a weakness of the Car defense. The edge NE enjoys at QB and receiving plays right into Car's weakest area (secondary) IMO this will prove to be a deadly combination for the Panthers. Does it mean Car has no chance? Hell no but IMO it means even if Car plays a perfect game and or deviates from what they like to do (pass instead of run) they will still need NE to be off it's game in order for them to win. It could happen but IMO it just isn't likely to. I hope it's a good game but I honestly think the matchups favor NE heavily.
 
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Panthers' offense gets no credit. While they are NOT the Broncos or Colts, they ARE as good offensively as the Pats.
Smelvin I must respectfully dissagree and IMO this is where many are missing the boat on this game. CAR's offense is not nearly as good as NE's, at least not if you take a serious look at the schedule each team played.During the regular season:CAR had the luxury of playing bottom ten (scoring) defense's 7 times while only playing top ten defenses 4 times (lost 2 of them).NE played only 3 games against bottom ten (scoring) defense's while playing top ten defense's 9 times winning 8 of them.So CAR had more than twice as many games against the cellar dwellers AND less than half as many against the iron.NE has a better offense than most realize and has faced and beaten several teams with as good or better defense than Car. Contrast that with the simple fact Car has not faced or beaten teams with as good or better defense than NE. The 1 exception being TB and DAL who they lost to once and beat once. But while Dal is an offensively challenged run dominated team that played into Car's strength NE is not.While possible it is not likely either of these things will happen given the fact NE has played strong run defense all year and Jake would have to successfully divert from the offense he has been running all year. Could he (they) do it? It is possible but it sure as heck aint likely.Clearly CAR has more skill at running back and running the ball but I beg to differ on them having MORE skill at WR and receiving. Car has Jake, Mush, Smith, Proehl & Wiggins and their top 2 rec's may be a little better than any of NE's rec's but that is more than made up for by the edge NE enjoys in depth, QB and in their DB's. Brady, Brown, Branch, Givens, Johnson, Ward Fauria & Graham are collectively much, much better than Car's passing attack.In a nutshell it will be because Car is a run oriented team playing into a defensive strength of NE. While NE is a pass oriented team playing into a weakness of the Car defense. The edge NE enjoys at QB and receiving plays right into Car's weakest area (secondary) IMO this will prove to be a deadly combination for the Panthers. Does it mean Car has no chance? Hell no but IMO it means even if Car plays a perfect game and or deviates from what they like to do (pass instead of run) they will still need NE to be off it's game in order for them to win. It could happen but IMO it just isn't likely to. I hope it's a good game but I honestly think the matchups favor NE heavily.
Over 16 games the teams even out and the Panthers' under Delhomme threw for more yards, ran for more yards, and was nearly equivelant in scoring. Panthers played the #1 defense in football twice (Cowboys) and the Bucs are not slouches defensively. Drop the partisanship and think objectively - the Chiefs had an "easy" schedule - does that minimize their offense? No. Over 16 regular season games the Pats and Panthers had comparable offenses and in the playoffs, the Panthers offense has been WAY better. Panthers O is comparable - maybe better. Pats won more games. Don't try to bolster your team with the illusion of tougher opponents.
 
Smelvin,What I wrote wasn't partisanship or illusion it's was fact and saying strength of schedule evens out over a 16 game schedule may sound nice but that doesn't make it true. The numbers I gave you are FACTS and it is an illusion that all schedules and conferences are equal. As far as whether the Chiefs having an easy schedule dimishes their offense? Of course it does to a certain degree. The Chiefs were perceived by people such as yourself as a great team while plowing thru their cupcake schedule. However once they were forced to play better teams they were exposed for the pretenders they really were and that is exactly the point I am trying to make.If you want to believe CAR's offense is as good as NE's simply because they were close in points scored you are entitled to your opinion. But the fact of the matter is they played a much weaker schedule and their run based offense IMO will likely be much easier to defend than the pass oriented offense NE runs. I really don't want this discussion to get ugly (name calling etc) I am honestly trying my best to present logic and reasoning as to why I feel as I do with regard to NE's offense. But if you believe NE's defensive numbers are skewed (to a degree) by their home games (playing outdoors in bad weather cold wind etc) you must also concede NE's offense has likely been affected as well. Crucify me if you will but IMO it is obvious the bad weather games and quality of schedule have skewed NE's offensive numbers the only question is to what degree. Thank god only 1 more day ;)

 
Hey NE_Revival. I didn't read all 3 pages, so forgive me if I am repeating this. The only problem I really see for NE is their O-line. Shoot, three of their starters aren't playing (not that they really ahve for some time now). That does not boad well for NE to be able to run their normal offense against this Carolina defensive front 4. These guys will blow Brady up if they try to use the spread. That will result in TO's and sacks, no two ways about it. This leaves NE to run the ball. How effective will they be running against this front 7? IMHO, not very. However, I think they had better try very diligintly to get a run game going, in order to be able to use some form of the spread offense they covet so much. I still think NE will win, but that the over will be easily covered and that Carolina will keep it within the 7.5 spread, with a chance of winning it.NE WILL have major problems with this D-Line (especially in their favorite spread formation), and that will be what slows down the tremendous run this team has put together this year.Good luck to you NE_Revival, I hope you enjoy the game and your SuperBowl day doesn't turn out like mine last year. Throw a lobster on for me!

 
Hole,Too bad about ur Raiders why the heck didn't we have a lobster on that 1?Anyway, you are correct that NE's OL is not a strength but it has been that way all year and IMO CAR's strong front 4 will not prevent NE from using their spread formations. NE lives and dies with the pass and this game will be no different. Much of NE's passing game revovles around short quick passes (screens etc) and Brady is very hard to sack since he gets rid of the ball so quickly. IMO CAR's DL vs NE's OL is similar to the edge TEN's line had over NE's OL but NE still managed to throw the ball 37 times without giving up a sack. Brady gets hit a lot but he usually does a good job of seeing who is coming and getting rid of the ball B4 he is hit. This doesn't mean CAR won't get to Brady because I am sure they will but IMO it will only be a huge factor when they try or are forced to go deep which is only a small part of their passing game. NE will also run the ball enough to keep them honest but I would be very surprised if NE changed up and didn't try and spread them out because it is what they have done all year regardless of who they have faced.I agree with you on the over but I think NE's D will eventually prove to be too much for CAR and NE will win going away. Should be a great game either way though ;)

 
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If you want to believe CAR's offense is as good as NE's simply because they were close in points scored you are entitled to your opinion. But the fact of the matter is they played a much weaker schedule and their run based offense IMO will likely be much easier to defend than the pass oriented offense NE runs.
No, I believe it b/c the Panthers are MUCH better rushing the ball and comparable passing it. They are also comparable in points scored and margin of victory. If they were on level SOS playing fields, I think everyone would be saying the Panthers' offense is MUCH better than the Patriots'.There's nothing wrong with boring, inefficient offenses that do just enough to win - when they give the wins. Which is what the Pats offense has given the team. That is why that point about "they could rack up points but didn't" is a stupid one - the Pats offense does JUST ENOUGH to win the game, but usually not much more.I was being generous to the Pats based on their SOS to say the teams are comparable. If they had comparable SOS and the same numbers, there would be no doubt which offense is better. SOS brings them to comparability, in my mind.IMO, both offenses are capable of game winning drives, comeback victories, and efficient, but not overwhelming, passing game success. Both offenses are capable, in their own ways, of time consuming drives. Both offenses have done all the above against comparable defenses (or did you forget that the Panthers have victories versus the Bucs, the 'boys, and the Eagles) And, the Panthers have a more solid running game - I call the teams comparable on offense (or edge to the Panthers). But, of course, it is offense versus defense, not offense versus offense - which is a good thing for the Pats b/c their D is something the Panthers have never seen before.Meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, the Panthers can shut down offenses, too - they held the Colts to 20 points, held New Orleans to 20 and 19, and only gave up more than 25 points once during the entire year (including the playoffs). Considering it is highly likely the Panthers will score around 17 points, the game once again comes down to the Pats O versus the other team's D - Pats put up 20 or more and they probably win the game. They don't and they might lose a close ballgame tomorrow afternoon.P.S. - if you wonder why I say it is "highly likely" the Panthers score 17 or so, it is because they have two offensive TDs in 10 of their last 11 games - even the games they lost - and Kasay is not likely to go the entire game with no FG work. The reason I think the Panthers will score 17 on the Pats as a bare minimum is that they failed to score 14 or more on offense only twice this year - once in a loss to Houston and the other time in a win versus the Bucs near the beginning of the year.
 
P.S. - if you wonder why I say it is "highly likely" the Panthers score 17 or so, it is because they have two offensive TDs in 10 of their last 11 games - even the games they lost - and Kasay is not likely to go the entire game with no FG work. The reason I think the Panthers will score 17 on the Pats as a bare minimum is that they failed to score 14 or more on offense only twice this year - once in a loss to Houston and the other time in a win versus the Bucs near the beginning of the year.
Yes and Manning and the Colts were red hot untill they met up with the NE D too. I give the Panthers 13 points.Edit to add thats about 10 less then they will need to win. ;)
 
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I believe it b/c the Panthers are MUCH better rushing the ball and comparable passing it. They are also comparable in points scored and margin of victory. If they were on level SOS playing fields, I think everyone would be saying the Panthers' offense is MUCH better than the Patriots'.
I will give it one last try.We agree the Panthers are MUCH better running the ball but dissagree on their passing games being comparable.NE played against top 10 passing defenses NINE times while CAR played against only ONE. NE finished 9th in the league in passing compared to CAR finishing 18th and if you take SOS into consideration the gap is even wider and therefore IMO not comparable. What I am trying to get accross to you is if CAR played the same schedule their pass ranking would be much lower than it is.No sense going around and around on this and we will just have to agree to dissagree.IMO it will be crystal clear to anyone who watches the superbowl who has the far superior passing game ;)
 
Yes and Manning and the Colts were red hot untill they met up with the NE D too. I give the Panthers 13 points.Edit to add thats about 10 less then they will need to win. ;)
Manning and the Colts were red hot, going into sub-freezing FOXBORO where the Pats typically give up only 14 points. I readily said that if this game were in Foxboro, the Pats would probably win by a healthy margin and comfortably.Also, as I said before, on neutral ground, the numbers should reflect more towards what the Pats did on the road than at home - they gave up 21+ on the road and have a .9 margin of victory. The Panthers are MUCH MORE LIKELY to score closer to the 20 than the 14 (which you don't even give them). Since I'm making number predictions, I'm giving the Panthers somewhere within the Pats' defensive average of 14-21.5 points. Since the Panthers have likewise been averaging in that range on offense, and they have 2 offensive TDs in 10 of the last 11 games, I think 17 points is actually a fairly conservative number. Again - this says nothing about the closeness of the game - just what I believe the Pats defense will give up in the Super Bowl (esp. combined with the knowledge that only twice since 1980 has the Bowl failed to reach 38 points, despite some heavy hitting defensive matchups).Again, it comes down to the Pats O moving on the Panthers' D as the key to them winning the game. Noone's made a case for the Pats being able to keep the Panthers down outside of Foxboro - to my relatively objective eyes (I am a fan of neither team, and my money is not tied to one team winning ), the Pats D gives up 20+ points whenever they leave Foxboro. The Panthers aren't as good as some of the Os the Pats have faced, they'll do what they typically do against any defense they face, but not much more against this Pats D - thus, ~17 points. This does not preclude the Pats from covering the spread - while the Panthers' D has given up 25+ points only once this year, I could see the Pats moving the ball efficiently enough to ring up around 30 on the Panthers' D. A 34-17 game is still a Patriots drubbing of the Panthers - and a 24-17 game has all the makings of a defensive struggle and a good game, and is right at the point spread.
 
You two are funny. ;) But you're doing a pretty good job of not getting too pi$$ed with each other, so it's all good.Pats fans believe the Pats are much better than the Panthers, and Panther fans think they are just as good as the Pats. Everyone will have a much better picture in 25 hours....

 
No sense going around and around on this and we will just have to agree to dissagree.IMO it will be crystal clear to anyone who watches the superbowl who has the far superior passing game ;)
Agreed - and I'm done belaboring this point, too. I believe both passing games rely on efficiency, with the occasional deep shots. I don't think your view affects what I stated - even granting that your Pats passing O is significantly better, it doesn't change the fact that the Panthers' rush O is significantly better than the Pats'. You are apparently removing some of my isolated comments for commentary while ignoring my concessions that the Pats D can handle the Panthers O.It does not affect my main point throughout all this - the Panthers O is being underrated in this game, and people are overcrediting the Patriots' SCORING D outside of Foxboro. The 17-13 predictions, IMO, are unjustified. 14-20 points from the Panthers O will require 20-28 points from the Pats O to win the game, and (again, my opinion) the Panthers' O will get at least 17 points.Glad the game is less than 24 hours away - I am really psyched to see this one play out.
 
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smelvin,I think that if the Panthers are to score more than 17 points, then a TD will have to come from their D. That is not saying this can not happen. I just don't see Car. being able to run the ball effective enough to manage 17+ points. The NE D tackles better than anyone in the league, bad angles and missed tackles cost every team that Car has played so far in the playoffs. Those things will not happen with NE. They are very good tacklers becuse they are a very disiplined team. Which also relates to taking good angles to the ball.On top of this, the NE 2dary can absolutly smoother teams. I see a few big plays from Car. but not as many as the were able to get against other teams up to this point. Even when they get these big plays on O I still see the NE D tighten up down in the Red Zone and holding them to field goals rather than TDs. Hence the 13 points: one TD, 3 field goals. There really won't be enough time for much more scoring than that IMO. Car will try and control the tempo and clock with its running game thus allowing for fewer possesions. If they only get Field Goals out of these possesions then I see it very hard for them to score the amount of points you expect.

 
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I am confused, you say "stats don't really matter anymore anyway" then go on to show stats that support your conclusion that Brady will air it out. :wall: :wall: :wall: I totally agree with your conclusion just not your statement of stats don't matter :shock: :shock: :shock:
I have stated several times that "stats really don't matter" because stats don't win football games, players win football games. Big plays win football games. Game plans win football games. A single game is a very small sample size, so anything can (and will) happen.How you got to the Super Bowl really doesn't matter either--the fact that you got there is what counts, not what your stats were.HOWEVER . . . the stats often can glean some insight into what MIGHT happen.I have been spouting off different stats in all the SB threads. For example, the Pats haven't allowed more than 116 yards rushing all season. Does that number in itself necessarily mean anything? No. Carolina could go out and rush for 180 yards.IMO, stats can indicate the LIKELIHOOD of something to happen, but they certainly cannot EXCLUDE things from happening.You can (and should) use stats to justify your position on something, but that does not mean that that outcome is etched in stone.
We are saying the same thing. Anybody who knows anything about any sport knows the game is won on the field. As I have said many people have an opinion and then find a stat to back up their opinion. Where the savy person forms an intelligent opinion based on stats/facts. This game will be won by Brady spreading the offense and hitting 7 different receivers. The front 4 of the Cats although great won't be a factor like many feel in this game. As good as R. Manning is his fellow DB's will be exposed. Both TN and Indy were tougher opponents than the Cats. Anything can happen (turnovers etc.) in pro football that is why we watch the game.
 
Bump just to say it played out more as I expected it to. My 17 points from the Panthers' O prediction was, as I mentioned, conservative - and they blew that up. The Pats and Panthers played to a compelling 0-0 tie through the first Q and a half, and went the longest in S.B. history w/o either team scoring, yet both put up more offense than most of us predicted.But, I think I was a bit more accurate than others in this thread re: the Panther's ability to score versus the Pats' D. Esp. regarding my contention of two offensive TDs versus any defense and a FG here or there. And, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Patriots once again proved they can just figure out how to win games without being overwhelmingly good at anything on offense. Again, their offense did JUST ENOUGH to win the game, but not much more.Full congratulations to the Pats, they were the best team in pro football this past year and they solidified their place as the best team so far in the 2nd millenium. The Panthers looked good, too, but full on hats off to that NE offensive line - they did an outstanding job. Also hats off to 2-time Super Bowl MVP Tom Brady - he is now the quintessential great NFL QB, backup FF QB - Troy Aikman, Phil Sims, with a smattering of Mr. Montana. That was a main talking point among my friends at our S.B. Party - Brady approaching Montana status.Cheer loud Patriot fans - your team gave us a great Super Bowl game - and one of the best games of the year. Only one TO for each side, blocked kicks, the only bad thing was a LOT of penalties on both sides, and enough balance of run and pass to keep the game interesting.Hey - how ABOUT that Deshaun Foster. Stephen Davis has some starter-quality competition.

 
I will have to admit, that I never would have thought Car. could have scored nearly that many points. I was right, up till about 2 min. in the 1st half :D .Credit is due to the Panthers for making that a great game, as it could have gotten out of control early on and been a wash.

 

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